Long Pig : Can You Pass the Ketchup and Breasts Please...

When people refer to "fricassee", "B-B-Q", or having "friends over for dinner" they are usually referring to all sorts of goodies going on the family table, or at the park with a picnic.

In a "survival situation" though we as citizens might be forced to consider "alternative dining".

I am of course referring to something many people are loathe to even discuss during normal circumstances, but when their very survival comes into question, it is something the stigma and taboo brings into question because of the very nature of not wanting to die.

Let's talk turkey, shall we, and get to the talk of something most people never consider?

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With all of the end of the world scenarios out there and all the movies being pumped out by Hollywood, it is not an unheard of nor implausible thought to consider life over death.

If anyone has ever read books on piracy you have heard the term Long Pig.

This is of course, a term which was coined in the Caribbean and elsewhere, as a code among pirates who usually were talking about "having a mate for dinner", not in the colloquial term of inviting a friend to sit and eat with them, but to literally "have him for dinner".

This is about cannibalism and whether you think you could choke down your fellow man.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Cannibalism

Cannibalism (from Caníbalis, the Spanish name for the Carib people, a West Indies tribe well known for their practice of cannibalism), is the act or practice of humans eating the flesh of other human beings.

It is also called anthropophagy.

While the expression "cannibalism" has origins in the act of humans eating other humans, it has extended into zoology to mean the act of any animal consuming members of its own type or kind, including the consumption of mates.

A related word, "cannibalization", has several meanings that are metaphorically derived from cannibalism.

In marketing, it may refer to the loss of a product's market share to another product from the same company.

In publishing, it can mean drawing on material from another source.

In manufacturing, it can refer to reuse of salvageable parts.

Cannibalism has recently been both practiced and fiercely condemned in several wars, especially in Liberia and Congo.

Today, the Korowai are one of very few tribes still believed to eat human flesh as a cultural practice.

It is also still known to be practiced as a ritual and in war in various Melanesian tribes.

Historically, allegations of cannibalism were used by the colonial powers to justify the enslavement of what were seen as primitive peoples; cannibalism has been said to test the bounds of cultural relativism as it challenges anthropologists "to define what is or is not beyond the pale of acceptable human behavior".

Today, the trend is to reserve judgement on cannibalism.

Cannibalism was widespread in the past among humans throughout the world, continuing into the 19th century in some isolated South Pacific cultures; and, in a few cases in insular Melanesia, indigenous flesh-markets existed.

Fiji was once known as the 'Cannibal Isles'.

Neanderthals are believed to have practiced cannibalism, and they may have been cannibalized by modern humans.

Cannibalism has been occasionally practiced as a last resort by people suffering from famine, as it is speculated happened on colonial Roanoke Island USA. Occasionally it has occurred in modern times.

A famous example is the crash of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571, after which some survivors ate the bodies of deceased passengers.

Also, some mentally ill individuals obsess about eating others and cannibalize, such as Jeffrey Dahmer and Albert Fish.

There is a resistance to labelling cannibalism formally as a mental disorder.

The theme of cannibalism has been featured in religion, mythology, fairy stories and in works of art; for example, cannibalism has been depicted in The Raft of the Medusa by the French lithographer Théodore Géricault in 1819.

It has been satirized in popular culture, as in Monty Python's Lifeboat sketch.

Many movies have discussed this as well as books if you read of course and of course there are famous cases and or events where this was not only done for survival purposes but some very troubled individuals did it just because they were twisted in the head.

Donner Party Diary Excerpt


The Island (1980) Theatrical Trailer


Andes plane crash survivor who had to eat his comrades.


So, the question begs to be asked, could you get past the taboo of cannibalism?

Quote from : Wikipedia : Taboo

A taboo is a strong social prohibition (or ban) relating to any area of human activity or social custom that is sacred and forbidden based on moral judgment and sometimes even religious beliefs.

Breaking the taboo is usually considered objectionable or abhorrent by society.

The term comes from the Tongan word tabu, meaning set apart or forbidden, and appears in many Polynesian cultures.

In those cultures, a tabu (or tapu or kapu) often has specific religious associations.

When an activity or custom is taboo, it is forbidden and interdictions are implemented concerning it, such as the ground set apart as a sanctuary for criminals.

Some taboo activities or customs are prohibited under law and transgressions may lead to severe penalties.

Other taboos result in embarrassment, shame, and rudeness.

Although critics and/or dissenters may oppose taboos, they are put into place to avoid disrespect to any given authority, be it legal, moral and/or religious.

Under the Black Flag : The Romance and the Reality of Life Among the Pirates

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Publishers Weekly : Amazon Review :

Widespread piracy began in the Western world in 1650 and ended abruptly around 1725.

Cordingly, formerly on the staff of the National Maritime Museum in England, describes who became pirates (mainly volunteers who joined up when their ships were captured); what they wore (scarves or handkerchiefs around their head, just like in the movies); and how they were armed (literally, to the teeth).

Pirates, says the author, were "attracted by the lure of plunder and the desire for an easy life."

They were not the clean-cut heroes of the Errol Flynn films either, but cutthroat murderers.

Some of the famous pirates are portrayed: Sir Francis Drake made his name by plundering silver on the Spanish Main; Sir Harry Morgan is famous for his ransom of Portobello to the President of Panama for 250,000 pesos; and Captain Kidd remains mysterious because of his buried gold and silver on Gardiners Island, near New York City.

Fictitious pirates are also surveyed, such as Long John Silver and Captain Hook, and the allure they still have over us is explored.

Even if you don't know a corsair (a Mediterranean-based pirate) from a buccaneer (a Caribbean pirate), this book will delight and inform.

Photos not seen by PW. Author tour. Copyright 1996 Reed Business Information, Inc.

The Pirate Hunter : The True Story of Captain Kidd

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Publishers Weekly : Amazon Review :

Entertaining, richly detailed and authoritatively narrated, Zacks's account of the life of legendary seaman William Kidd delivers a first-rate story.

Though Kidd, better known as Captain Kidd, was inextricably bound with piracy and has popularly gone down as a marauding buccaneer himself, Zacks (An Underground Education) argues that he was actually a mercenary backed by the English government and several New World investors to track down pirates and reclaim their stolen wares.

The book is cogent and replete with supporting evidence without the heavy-handed feel of some scholarly work.

What really sets the book apart is Zacks's gift as researcher and storyteller.

He highlights the role of an undeniable pirate, Robert Culliford, in Kidd's tale and pits the two men against each other from the outset, constructing his book as an intriguing duel.

Aside from the tightly constructed plot, Zacks also wonderfully evokes the social and political life of the 17th century at land and at sea, and he takes turns at debunking and validating pirate folklore: while it appears the dead giveaway of a skull and crossbones made it a rare flag choice, Zacks contends that pirates did often wear extravagant clothing and were as drunk, cursing, hungry, horny... and violent as myth would have them.

Augmented by such details and driven by a conflict between Kidd and Culliford that keeps the pages flying, Zacks's book is a treasure, indeed.

Copyright 2002 Cahners Business Information, Inc.

Other than social taboos, stigmas, and the occasional case of Kuru what is to stop you, in a survival situation, mind you, from "having your best friend for dinner"?

Quote from : Wikipedia : Kuru

Kuru is an incurable degenerative neurological disorder (brain disease) that is a type of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy found in humans.

Though the theory is not universally accepted, some researchers have posited that kuru was transmitted among members of the Fore tribe of Papua New Guinea via cannibalism.

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And just for those who do not know me this thread is about thinking, ethical, moral, and social discussion, I am not inviting you for dinner at my house, seeing as I am all out of ketchup and B-B-Q sauce.



Please have a sense of humor, while it is a serious topic, it need not be disgusting.



[edit on 14-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

The other, other white meat

Hopefully it will never come to that. I will eat grasshoppers and frogs first. Or birds, or mice.

I have heard, don't remember where that we taste like pork. I don't eat much pork anymore

reply to post by snowspirit


Yes, I had heard too, like pork, possibly a part of the terminology for "long pig".

And here I thought everything tasted like chicken.

But in a survival situation like the above mentioned could you do it?

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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

the question begs to be asked, could you
get past the taboo of cannibalism?

The taboo part, yes. Personally, my introduction to the idea of cannibalism was Stranger in a Strange Land. The "taboo" of cannibalism is a cultural issue. I can conceive of a culture in which one eats the dead at a funeral instead of burying them.

That said, I think I would be hesitant to participate in it in this culture, because cannibalism amongst humans has such a different connotation. Generally more along the lines of "I will eat you to steal your powers!" And I've read from certain channeled writings that allegedly certain degenerative brain diseases are a consequence of this.

So...even though I can conceive of a context in which cannibalism is a polite gesture rather than a symbolic way of absorbing your enemies...in the context that seems to manifest here on earth, it might be a generally unwise practice.

So I think I would refrain.

in a survival situation like the above mentioned could you do it?

Could, yes certainly. Would...again, probably not, for reasons given. I don't think I'd be especially weirded out by the idea, but I think I'd probably simply choose to refrain and possibly die instead.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by LordBucket]

I don't think I could do it. Even for survival. And I'm not a picky eater either which is why I could eat bugs. Cooked first though. I would eat a mouse, bird, rat, bugs, if I had to, but I couldn't eat human.

Even aside from the degenerative brain diseases, we are probably toxic with chemicals, stress hormones, who knows what else.

Absolutely NOT.
In No way, No Such Form or No Thought would ever enter into my mind to do a cannibalistic thing ...

I have learnt enough native skills to survive out in the wild!!!!
After that is not possible or available .. I’d be praying till my very last breathe.
Even after the wild are absent from the woods and the water is no longer pure and safe. When it is time for me to face that spiritual hour of leaving the physical plane I will take my walk out to a spot and sit till my body lives no more. I cant actually put in any clearer than that..

It’s just not something that is natural to me .. In my Ethics class we had long discussions on this topic statistically they claim that it’s not the mind set that makes you want to partake in eating of the flesh but the pangs of hunger just like and dying diseases are painful .. I could not have that on my mind right before entering into a spirit world …

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

The taboo part, yes. Personally, my introduction to the idea of cannibalism was Stranger in a Strange Land. The "taboo" of cannibalism is a cultural issue. I can conceive of a culture in which one eats the dead at a funeral instead of burying them.

Loved that book and anything by Heinlein is excellent.

Yes, I agree, it is a cultural issue, and the stigma of it sticks.

I have read stories and seen television specials about a tribe that does what you mentioned.

Speaking of course about the eating of the dead to honor them.

While I do not see that as a viable option, honoring the dead in such a way, for survival purposes, it might be a totally different situation for me.

Originally posted by LordBucket
That said, I think I would be hesitant to participate in it in this culture, because cannibalism amongst humans has such a different connotation. Generally more along the lines of "I will eat you to steal your powers!" And I've read from certain channeled writings that allegedly certain degenerative brain diseases are a consequence of this.

I am of course referring to it only as survival not speaking of Dahmer.

Yes, you are referring to kuru, which I mentioned in the original post.

Hannibal Lecter comes to mind and a nice bottle of Chianti and fava beans.

At least when mentioning it in the modern of society today.

I ate His liver with some fava beans...

Originally posted by LordBucket
So...even though I can conceive of a context in which cannibalism is a polite gesture rather than a symbolic way of absorbing your enemies...in the context that seems to manifest here on earth, it might be a generally unwise practice.

Of course.

Originally posted by LordBucket
So I think I would refrain.

Understandable.

Originally posted by LordBucket
Could, yes certainly. Would...again, probably not, for reasons given. I don't think I'd be especially weirded out by the idea, but I think I'd probably simply choose to refrain and possibly die instead.

[edit on 14-6-2010 by LordBucket]

In a survival situation most people would consider almost anything.

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[edit on 14-6-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by snowspirit


Completely understandable.

So, if we're in a survival situation, I can "count on you for dinner"?

I just had to say it.

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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I will drop off a grasshopper, dandelion, and mushroom casserole, on your doorstep, and quickly leave. I'm quite small, and I run fast

Originally posted by NorthStargal52
Absolutely NOT.
In No way, No Such Form or No Thought would ever enter into my mind to do a cannibalistic thing ...

Understandable.

Completely.

While you're away collecting firewood we will be drawing up dinner plans.

Originally posted by NorthStargal52
I have learnt enough native skills to survive out in the wild!!!!
After that is not possible or available .. I’d be praying till my very last breathe.

Well, let us hope prayer works, because if not it might be B-B-Q time.

Originally posted by NorthStargal52
Even after the wild are absent from the woods and the water is no longer pure and safe. When it is time for me to face that spiritual hour of leaving the physical plane I will take my walk out to a spot and sit till my body lives no more. I cant actually put in any clearer than that...

Yes, but the question begs to be asked, would you hold it against us?

If we "had you for dinner" after you passed away?

Originally posted by NorthStargal52
It’s just not something that is natural to me .. In my Ethics class we had long discussions on this topic statistically they claim that it’s not the mind set that makes you want to partake in eating of the flesh but the pangs of hunger just like and dying diseases are painful .. I could not have that on my mind right before entering into a spirit world …

Please, please realize, I am just teasing you, and I do see this as a serious topic.

I am sure you and others will not be the only people to state they cannot do it.

Ethics, morals, beliefs and society are something I respect and live by of course.

But, in a survival situation, many people's ethics, morals, and beliefs will go the way of the dinosaur, and they will be salivating over "potential food".

Originally posted by snowspirit
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

I will drop off a grasshopper, dandelion, and mushroom casserole, on your doorstep, and quickly leave. I'm quite small, and I run fast

All I save to say is below :

Run Forrest, Run!

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it's always been my understanding that consuming the flesh of your own species leads to a disease that slowly eats the brain. personally I would rather starve than eat another human. not out of some moral reason, I just find the idea disgusting.

If it comes down to it I will kill you, skin you, eat you, and enjoy you I wonder if the normal curing process for pork would work for long pork?

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

the question begs to be asked, would you hold it against us?

If we "had you for dinner" after you passed away?

I don't think it would bother me. I don't think of my body as "me." I think of it as "my body." Something I'm using. And after I'm done using it, it's going to be eaten by something either way. Is being eaten by worms and bacteria somehow "better" than being eaten by people?

reply to post by NorthStargal52

Ethics

I just don't see it as an ethical issue. If somebody dies and leaves their house to you...is it "unethical" for you to use it? So if somebody dies and leaves their body...how is it unethical to use that?

It's a big hunk of meat. What's the problem?

Originally posted by optimus primal
it's always been my understanding that consuming the flesh of your own species leads to a disease that slowly eats the brain. personally I would rather starve than eat another human. not out of some moral reason, I just find the idea disgusting.

Of course, that is kuru, from eating human brains and I mentioned it in the original post.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Kuru

Kuru is an incurable degenerative neurological disorder (brain disease) that is a type of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy found in humans.

Though the theory is not universally accepted, some researchers have posited that kuru was transmitted among members of the Fore tribe of Papua New Guinea via cannibalism.

Mad cow is believed to have the same cause.

Because dead cows were ground up and fed to them.

This is of course not survival, the mad cow situation, it is farmers and the meat industry being cheap, lazy, and unethical, in regards to what they sell us.

It might sound disgusting to you and you might starve but others will not.

Thank you for your post and thoughts though and do not let my gallows humor offend you, it was not meant to offend, but be light-hearted.

About a rather serious topic in regards to survival, and survival only.

Originally posted by azrael36
If it comes down to it I will kill you, skin you, eat you, and enjoy you

I wonder if the normal curing process for pork would work for long pork?

You would have to catch me first.

I have no clue about the curing process of humans.

Pork, however, is something altogether different.

Deliverance: Dueling Banjos


Your comment made me think of the movie Deliverance for some reason.

Thanks for the invite!

In a survival situation I would almost definitely eat a friend that had died in order to feed my family and myself. The thought that one would rather starve than eat a comrade of theirs that has died is understandable to a degree, but at the end of the day we are all animals.

It gives phrases like "he may be dead but he's still here, inside us" a new meaning lol.

Also I think an interesting question is would you kill an animal for food if it could talk and communicate and was as smart as us?

reply to post by LordBucket


Our body is nothing but a vessel for our souls.

Period.

It is there merely to let us move about physically.

After we exit our mortal coil we are nothing but a spirit.

reply to post by Scope and a Beam


I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

About the "here in us" comment.

It made me think of the book Lord of the Flies and the movie Animal Farm.

Lord of the Flies

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Amazon Review :

William Golding's classic tale about a group of English schoolboys who are plane-wrecked on a deserted island is just as chilling and relevant today as when it was first published in 1954.

At first, the stranded boys cooperate, attempting to gather food, make shelters, and maintain signal fires.

Overseeing their efforts are Ralph, "the boy with fair hair," and Piggy, Ralph's chubby, wisdom-dispensing sidekick whose thick spectacles come in handy for lighting fires.

Although Ralph tries to impose order and delegate responsibility, there are many in their number who would rather swim, play, or hunt the island's wild pig population.

Soon Ralph's rules are being ignored or challenged outright.

His fiercest antagonist is Jack, the redheaded leader of the pig hunters, who manages to lure away many of the boys to join his band of painted savages.

The situation deteriorates as the trappings of civilization continue to fall away, until Ralph discovers that instead of being hunters, he and Piggy have become the hunted: "He forgot his words, his hunger and thirst, and became fear; hopeless fear on flying feet."

Golding's gripping novel explores the boundary between human reason and animal instinct, all on the brutal playing field of adolescent competition.

--Jennifer Hubert

Animal Farm Trailer

Bugs and earthworms.
Mixem in with a little dehydrated eggs. MMMMMMM...
Pass the salt and pepper.