“Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”

OP ...
You cannot camouflage the prejudice in the header post.

Prejudice:
An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

The basis of your main post is: funds gained by illegal employment, the amount of allowances available to the unemployed through social benefits, and tax evasion. You use 2 people as examples to illustrate your point. That should basically then enable a discussion about the basis of the topic.
But ...
What has been added which makes this post prejudice and deters the basis of the post, is the names which are used for your comparison – they profile 2 individuals – one legal employee ‘Joe Legal’ and one illegal employee ‘Jose Illegal’.

Now there would have been no reason, for the purpose of illustration, (if this thread was specifically related to ‘employment, social allowances and tax evasion’) not to use the names ‘Person A’ and ‘Person B’ – if you were explaining the comparisons between the financial imbalances between an employee and what makes a person an illegal employee.

But its not...
By the deliberate selection and inclusion of the names ‘Joe Legal’ who versus ‘Jose Illegal’ this creates an insinuation and displays a prejudice that the persons you are using as a comparison are different – there is an elemental distinction here - and ethnicity profile, which changes the main point of the thread. It’s not hard to determine that one person is American (legal-good) and one person is Mexican (illegal-bad), and the names used deliberately to highlight another agenda in the topic – illegal immigration, or illegal Mexican.

The post is prejudicially slanted, and so are some reply posts which have followed.

And as a sidenote:
It seems that your ‘Joe Legal’ needs to get someone to do his tax return because his income doesn’t include all the deductions and credits he can claim (which there are many he’s entitled to, especially with kids and married) as well as his average yearly return of $2700.00.
And who knows – Joe Legal could be one of the 16.3% of legal US citizens who evade tax which inclusively adds up to $345 billion in lost revenue annually.

I’d be looking at the system that allows this to happen to any person, maybe best look at home first. But back to topic and realistically, the main thread is about Mexicans firstly, prejudicially placed out of context, camouflaged and wrapped up in the guise of US jobs, income, allowances, tax and evasion, and condoning any real effort to understand the reality of the immigration and migration situation at hand.

Sources:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.salon.com...
www.offshorelegal.org...

Maybe after breaking it down in these simply terms all the morons across the nation who say illegals aren't a problem will wake UP. This shows the sad truth. These ILLEGALS who have BROKEN THE LAW get all these benefits while hard working Americans struggle.

If tax paying Americans didn't have to pay towards all of the illegals taking advantage of the system them maybe we could get a tax break. Maybe we would have more money to put into our schools. Maybe we wouldn't have to take away music classes for our children. Maybe our health insurance wouldn't cost so much. Everything falls back on Americans. The problem is that Americans hire these people, the government caters to them and it is just getting worse.

Every state needs to stand up like AZ did. If an illegal person gets pulled over and doesn't have ID and can't prove who they are, they need to be thrown in jail until they are varified and thrown out of the country when they aren't. Plain and simple!!!!

I think I know why the government doesn't try harder to kick illegal's out of the country. I have heard from many business owners that most "Jose Illegal's" show up for work with a fake social security number. Sometimes they even reapply with a new fake number. The business owner can't question it because it is discrimination. All of the documents appear legit. When tax season rolls around Joe Legal gets a big refund but Jose Illegal can't file because of the fake documents. I believe the IRS makes quite a bit of money when you consider how many illegal's there are in the work force that can't file. And where do you think they are getting this false documentation? They won't kick them out of the country because they are making a killing come tax season. They want them here! As far as food/medical/housing goes for Jose Illegal OUR tax dollars pay for that so it's no sweat off the government's back... I don't know, it's just something to consider...

reply to post by Smiggle


*SNIP* you that have caused and will continue to cause all these problems. you are so concerned with the rights of people that have broken the law that you are blind. I have tried and tried and tried again and agin to figure out what the hell people like you are thinking. You know what I always come up with....YOU AREN'T THINKING AT ALL. You live in a world of make believe...how do people like you get through life expecting everything to be a hand out. You have got some never to say "maybe he is one who evades taxes" are you kidding me. And on top of that you thrown in that maybe he gets $2,?00 dollars back. What the hell doesn that matter. He should get more then that back for sure. How about these illegals help pay to put their kids through public school, how about the contribute to the society the conintually take advantage of. I suppose you would make an excuse for the millions of ILLEGALS that come her and have kids ON PURPOSE to get welfare. Let me guess, your gonna say there are none of those. I HAVE HEARD IT COME OUT OF THESE PEOPLE"S MOUTHS so it does happen.

If you are so concerned with illegals and their rights, why don't you and *SNIP* go live with them in their countries so we can fix this one. *SNIP*

Mod Note: Courtesy is Mandatory – Please Review Link.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Skyfloating]

Feds Bust Up Fake Document Ring in San Antonio

Reporter Mireya Villareal

"SAN ANTONIO -- Federal agents busted up a fake document-making ring and arrested at least five people.

Agents raided apartments at these five locations in San Antonio this week. Warrants were also served at two homes in Austin.

Immigration Customs Enforcement agents confirmed the raids had to do with counterfeit documents, including fake driver's licenses and fake immigration papers. They believe the ring started in San Antonio but branched out to other cities like Austin.

This investigation began in late 2009. Federal agents told News 4 WOAI they recovered some of the equipment being used in the illegal operation. They said high-tech equipment was being used to make high-quality licenses, green cards and nd immigration papers that could fool most people."


www.woai.com...

It really is a great episode.

I have heard it all before. The illegals are just here to make a living. Those illegals are leaving millions of citizens without a means to support their families. Yes it is the fault of corporate greed and our own government for failing to enforce laws. It is also the personal responsibility of the illegals. They know they are replacing citizens in the job force. They know that they are stealing another person's identification. They know that they are decietful by presenting false documentations.

Do all illegals come here just to make a better living for themselves and their families? No. Many are murderers, pedophiles, thieves, gang members etc. That is what you get with open borders and a failure to uphold our laws.

Many of the illegals that I knew came here to get the freebies, screw the system and have no intention whatsoever of becoming a legal citizen. In order to keep the illegals, there are cut-backs in other areas to compensate. It is the law abiding citizen who suffers and that is wrong. It is the illegals who are catered to while the law abiding citizen falls through the cracks. Pro illegal folks just don't get it.

When our neighborhoods are no longer safe, when gunshots are heard in the middle of the night, when people are losing their jobs and their lives, when graffiti replaces what were once beautiful areas, when we are told to become bi-lingual just to get a factory job etc. etc. then there is a huge problem. Pro illegal folks will ignore these facts or make some ridiculous excuse.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


You're living in denial. Try more like Jose Illegal makes 7 bucks per hour which is 14,560. Try more like "no dental insurance" and paying taxes under an TIN number which means at the end of the year you get nothing back and Joe Legal gets about 7,000 dollars back.

Joe Legal because he's a US Citizen applies for Medicaid, while Jose Illegal working in the land that the US stole from his grandparents, get nothing.

Joe Legal gets cheap oil, because Texas and Arizona is infested with it. Jose Legal, having a true claim to that oil because it belongs to Mexico, pays twice as much in Mexico.

You're argument is flawed on so many levels but standard redneck rethoric. The bottom line is always the same, Americans greet foreigners when they need cheap labor, when their economy collapsing, they blame terrorists, Mexicans, women, the Chinese, the Russian, ET, gladiator, Obama, Obama's Kenyan father, etc., for their incompetence to compete against the Chinese, Indian and Japanese.

Peace.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN

When Will Other States Pass Legeslation like AZ?

They are here to take over our towns. We must stop this Illegal Invasion. ENFORCE THE LAW FEDS!

[edit on 13-5-2010 by SWCCFAN]

So funny! "They are here to take over our towns" ~really? I live in New Mexico, I work along side and in the construction industry so I work with Mexicans almost everyday. They are here because sadly they need to make money. None of those I work with are illegal, none are interested in taking anything over. Mostly they just want to make enough money to take care of their families here and at home in Mexico.

The REAL problem is NAFTA and the enforcement of Comparative Advantage in trade which has systematically destroyed the 'way of life' for many in Mexico, driving them on to poverty and thus the need to find work 'up north'.

This law is nothing but a 1/2" band-aid on a 12" wound -no- it is nothing more than legislated racism touted to be 'tough illegal immigration reform'. it is not going to do ANYTHING to improve the situation - it will only create racial tension. It is a backward thinking, ignorant, overly simple, and downright hateful legislation that is only popular because there is so much HATE in the world right now.

how about REAL IMMIGRATION REFORM - REAL TRADE REFORM - REAL DRUG LAW REFORM - maybe then we would accomplish something other than waving our racism flag high and wide. . .

I'm guessing the push by the Invaders is part of an effort by the NWO to arrange traumatic events in the uSA that result in emergency measures leading to the foreign troupe invasions as peace keepers not unlike rationals we see with Haiti and elsewhere. It's the cultivation for a rational justifying invasion and take over. Some "Legal" rationals have to exist otherwise it foreign troupes because a non-sympathetic act of war. This way, once foreign troupes are on the soil gradual rationalization that it's better to fix the uSA with the Amero can be introduced. I believe this has been seriously undermined with the Restore America Plan.

reply to post by ReelView


Interesting to hear you say this....

The American people as in civilian are being extremely tard and feathered right now.

The police, military along with the rest of the world are being turned against the American people.

Not only that but the American people are also being lead into a box as some force is circling the wagons.

Americans are being made to believe that all of a sudden they have an immigration problem, this is not true because the problem had been there for over 20 years, only now is their media making them believe that the sky is falling trying to incite them.

Something fishy is most definitely going on here.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Izarith]

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Izarith]

From my understanding here in Texas Jose Illegal cannot get foodstamps because he has no social. Jose illegal also send at the least half of his yearly income back to his country of origin.
Jose also has to wait for hours upon hours at the emergency room to get treated for minor or major injuries or sickness. Joe has the option to do so aswell, but Joe opted for medical insurance. Nothin in life is free, you either pay cash or you pay with time. Jose also lives in not so good condition considering he lives in a house filled with other immigrants, or possibly in an apartment complex with someone who he knows who has a social to rent the apartment, which by the way is in a high crime neigborhood. Oh by the way Jose also has to live the entire time he is here with eyes behind his back. He has to continuely watch his back from cops, immigration and racist pricks who wish to hurt illegal immigrants. He is afraid for his life and his families life if he gets sent back to his country of origin because of the conditions. Jose also goes through emotional trauma due to racial slurs that are hurled at him on a constant basis. Not only does Jose have his famliy here in the US to watch and take care of, but he also has family in his country of origin to look after.
Although you makes some valid points, lets try not to one, change information to better your stance and two, lets try not to hide other important information.

Joe legal has many other options, but he choose to spend more than what he makes. Jose is here illegaly and should work on getting his papers worked out. We have a problem here, but blaming all the illegals is not going to solve anything.

Peace!

reply to post by MexicanTexan


Well I do doubt you employ anybody, but my point about the "ends justifying the means" doesnt change with any amount of taxes illegals may or may not contribute. They are still breaking the law being here and not following the process set in place by the Federal government.

It simply doesnt matter if they pay any taxes or not, if they are here and are breaking the law they need to be sent back home.

Just because you and people like you choose to ignore those laws that you dont like doesnt make it ok to break those laws....end of story.

maybe the system is screwing joe, not jose screwing the system. why don't you give jose citizenship so he can get screwed too.

reply to post by Johnze


You think that is racist? *SNIP*. So Joe should work the system? I don't know you.. *SNIP* I would say more ..but I would come off very badly and my point would be lost in the backlash. Joe illegal should HAVE to pay taxes.. Joe illegal should not be able to get a job. Joe illegal should get the F out of the United States until his proper paper work is finished. If your too stupid or too lazy to do it legally.. GET OUT!!! If the immigration process is flawed..Fix it...or...move somewhere else.. It is that easy.. Mark my words.. Something bad is going to start happening if our Govt. does not fix this problem... I have a serious problem working my a$$ off just to pay for some dumb criminal that can not abide by the laws!!!!! Criminal??? you might say... YES .. If you are here illegally ..YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.. Send all illegals home with a kid under each arm. This isn't about race or color.. This is about invading my country ILLEGALLY!!!! I love how all the mexican people in Arizona are threatening to move out of Arizona..Maybe the Arizona Gov. is a fricking Genius.. I pray Michigan passes something like this!!!

Mod Note: Courtesy is Mandatory – Please Review Link.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Skyfloating]

Umm can some body just stage a false flag attack that would come through the border of Mexico, then maybe we can get some action taken on this whole issue...

But hey you would figure the Fed would more than welcome more taxable laborours... so why is it that they dont have some type of program that gets Mexican nationals taxable status faster?
thats what this all comes down to right MONEY....
Tax payer's money, and people using social services that gets paid for by somebody else, and workers getting paid lower wages tax free...



[edit on 14-5-2010 by nvprose1]

reply to post by maxweljames


Its unfortunate, but ive read that as many as 100k chinese get smuggled here illegally every year, and a very large majority of these people are slaves. or "indentured servants" Its rather unfortunate.

If only we could capture these illegal immigrants and turn them into an alternative power source or something

reply to post by Smiggle


instead of arguing about the names, why don't you argue the issue?

Im sick and tired of the people on your side of the debate. You argue everything EXCEPT the issue.

go ahead, pull out the race card

Divide and conquer.

Even here, you divide by opinion (if not by race). That is not good, I think.

Originally posted by Armour For Victor
From my understanding here in Texas Jose Illegal cannot get foodstamps because he has no social. Jose illegal also send at the least half of his yearly income back to his country of origin.
Jose also has to wait for hours upon hours at the emergency room to get treated for minor or major injuries or sickness. Joe has the option to do so aswell, but Joe opted for medical insurance. Nothin in life is free, you either pay cash or you pay with time. Jose also lives in not so good condition considering he lives in a house filled with other immigrants, or possibly in an apartment complex with someone who he knows who has a social to rent the apartment, which by the way is in a high crime neigborhood. Oh by the way Jose also has to live the entire time he is here with eyes behind his back. He has to continuely watch his back from cops, immigration and racist pricks who wish to hurt illegal immigrants. He is afraid for his life and his families life if he gets sent back to his country of origin because of the conditions. Jose also goes through emotional trauma due to racial slurs that are hurled at him on a constant basis. Not only does Jose have his famliy here in the US to watch and take care of, but he also has family in his country of origin to look after.
Although you makes some valid points, lets try not to one, change information to better your stance and two, lets try not to hide other important information.

Joe legal has many other options, but he choose to spend more than what he makes. Jose is here illegaly and should work on getting his papers worked out. We have a problem here, but blaming all the illegals is not going to solve anything.

Peace!

Maybe in Texas, but in other areas, Jose illegal gets all the benefits he needs. If Jose illegal's girlfriend works and so does he, but Jose's illegal's girlfriend fails to mention there are two incomes and combined it is over the poverty limit, they get free medical, food stamps etc. They come right out and tell you how they screw the system. Stolen identities, false documentations gets you a lot.

Jose illegal lives in a high crime neighborhood? Not the illegals I know! Joe legal lives in unsafe neighborhoods as well. Where do you think the legal citizens have to live who have lost their jobs to an illegal?

Jose illegal has to live with eyes behind his back? No he doesn't. He chose to. Poor people here in America can't afford to move out of the city never mind out of the country. Jose illegal knew of the risks before coming here. I wouldn't dream of taking a risk that would seperate my family members.

Jose goes through emotional trauma? That is sad for anyone and I hate to see it. have you ever asked a child who was molested by an illegal how he or she feels? Have you ever asked the husband who lost both his wife and daughter to an illegal immigrant who has been arrested numerous times prior to the drunken driving accident how he feels? There are so many icidents like these. It has to stop.

Jose illegal has family here and in another country he is caring for? Jose legal can't afford to do that.