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“Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”

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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by A Novel
 


I was pointing out the idocy of flaunting ones (documented) intelligence as if that somehow makes them more intelligent than someone else because they have spent a god awful amount of money on a piece of paper. There are plenty of people out there with degrees that have difficulty with the simple task of tying ones shoes. I made more money that most people will even know and had an organization pay to teach me the trade - big whoop. It's irrelevant.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to be an illegal alien. You don't need a degree to understand this concept.

By the way, George W. Bush another "great mind" with a degree. Of course he had a serious disconnect when it came from that brain to his mouth. (sarcasm apparently I need to point that out)

Abraham Lincoln - no (formal) education whatsoever - what's your point?


Edited for sarcasm explanation

[edit on 14-5-2010 by WWJFKD]




posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by A Novel
 


OK i read the article...

There are several problems with it.

One it does not account the fact that illegal do indeed pay taxes.

Two it makes unsubstantiated claims about the Mexican Government and it's military. The Mexican military is not and never will fire on the US border patrol. The Mexican military might be bribed but this is only to turn a blind eye. the cartels have no power over the military and the Mexican military will never do more than be bribed to turn a blind eye.

Three you medical system just sucks, illegals might not help but they are most definitely not the problem. Getting charged a 500 dollar bill for an allergy injection is the problem in the American health system.

Aside from that, Yes illegal immigration is hurting the working class of America, both culturally and economically.

But this is only because the upper class americans revive huge benefits from illegal immigration and they are the ones who lobby for them.

All America had to do to rid itself of the immigration problem is stop hiring them that's it.

But claiming that illegal do not pay taxes is a stupid argument.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:54 AM
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Reply to post by Izarith
 


Nope sorry I do not go to mit or harvard. Just one of the top rated research facilities in the nation andlast I checked the over all number 34th best university as per usa today. That means nothing though I suppose.

As far as an employer getting a retard...yeah this retard is a college student with a full time job making about 45000 yearly pending overtime.

I've read more books than you(currently working on war and peace), attend a top university, make descent money already, and probably have read more meaningful books written by mexican authors than you have.


 
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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:55 AM
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I have known immigrants from Mexico that became US citizens that work second jobs as illegals and are paid under the table just so they could make ends meet.

These people found when they became legal the jobs they worked dried up because the companies they worked for did not want someone working for them that could take them to court or sue them as a citizen.

They only wanted illegals that they could violate US laws with.
and who could not file for Workman's comp or unpaid overtime ECT ECT.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
very good thread! But if you want to blame someone for them coming over here blame big corporations. they come over to the U.S.A because conditions in their country are so bad, and there not here to "take over our towns." There here to make a living and feed their families. Like I said do not blame them, blame big bushiness in the U.S.A for moving to Mexico so they don't have to pay their employees minimum wage!


Yup.

As far as "The man" is concerned: Joe legal is a tax slave, Jose Illegal a labor slave... rather than divide & bicker about who has what piece of paper, Joe & Jose need to realize they have a common foe: the establishment... and unite.

Michael Vick gets punished for dog fighting, what does "The (GOP/DNC) man" get for fomenting a good old nasty divisive slave fight??.. answer: re-elected.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:59 AM
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Reply to post by WWJFKD
 


Bush didn't have a great mind. He received like a 2.2gpa in college. With that being said no president has control of economics. They get their information from someone else. If this country was solely bases of the presidents view of econ we'd be screwed.

With that being said as fiscally conservative as I am I did not like bush or the admin.


 
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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:00 AM
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reply to post by A Novel
 


OK, OK,

This is getting stupid.

Can you just look at the post, the one where I address the article?

I man if it's not to much to ask, i'm sure your very busy reading like 4 books at a time and all but I know more about your education and intellect than I'd like to so lets get back to the topic please.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:01 AM
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Reply to post by Izarith
 


Um... You obviously did not read it because it does acct for the fact the illegals pay taxes.


 
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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:06 AM
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Reply to post by Izarith
 


No sorry I'm busy posting on my blackberry. I do not have internet at home because I rarely am there.


 
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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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Please ignore this post because it will very likely pi$$ you off.

Free trade and free market is not free if movements of people are not free. USA corporations can go into underdeveloped nations and produce cheap crap (because of no regulations, no labor protection, no minimal wages...) for USA citizens. That is ok, according to you, right?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by A Novel
 


Where does it talk about the taxes paid by illegal immigrants?

Can you give me the title of the paragraph because i can't find it.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by Johnze
 


Just what Im talking about. You could not present any type of real educated debate so you accuse the OP of being a racist. Very typical of somebody who has no argument, they just pull the race card out and hope we get scared away. FAIL



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:15 AM
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I have known immigrants from Mexico that became US citizens that work second jobs as illegals and are paid under the table just so they could make ends meet.

These people found when they became legal the jobs they worked dried up because the companies they worked for did not want someone working for them that could take them to court or sue them as a citizen.

They only wanted illegals that they could violate US laws with.
and who could not file for Workman's comp or unpaid overtime ECT ECT.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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And no I have never read four books at a time. I never enjoyed reading period until college.

I am against illegal immigration at the level it's at now. I'd like to see the government regulate it more, but I aslo realize the corporates enjoy the kick backs of not only tax loopholes and while their hands are in every politicians back pocket but also cheap labor. Obviously we can't uproot every illegal here, but we can regulate future migration.


As far as the article. From what I remember government agencies estimate illegals contribute between one and ten billion in taxes per year which does not make up for the economic loss.




 
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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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i was under the impression that in order to recive personal funds from the goverment youd have to give your fingerprints ? wouldent that exlude all illegals from benefitting in anyway since they are not eligble not to mention not eligble in the first place ?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by FIFIGI
 


This is a very good point!

But I have to say the Mexico has some very strict workers rights.

We might not get paid much but we definitely have workers rights. Mexico actually has some down right stupid workers right like it mandatory to give a worthless worker a letter of recommendation. this is retarded because it makes any letter of recommendation worthless.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by Johnze
 


Yes we do know why illegal aliens come to the U.S. It doesn't take a degree to figure it out. No it is not racist to want illegals deported. take that race card you hold in your wallet and shred it my friend, It's obsolete now.

By the way OP, great thread! S&F



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
i was under the impression that in order to recive personal funds from the goverment youd have to give your fingerprints ? wouldent that exlude all illegals from benefitting in anyway since they are not eligble not to mention not eligble in the first place ?


An example has been pointed out before of an illegal alien who had a "state" job. Apparently someone does not care.

Would it upset you to know that an illegal immigrant had a "State" job
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by A Novel
 


Americans should be angry about illegal immigration.

But the illegal and Mexico are not the ones to blame, and if you do choose to blame them it will accomplish nothing.

Americans need to demand that companies get severely punished for hiring illegal immigrants.

That will solve all your problem. It will raise wages and Mexicans will have no option but to go through legal channels to work.

This is how it's done in every country, even Mexico except the US and Briton.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:29 AM
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FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year." The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.8

80% of coc aine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. Drug cartels spend a half-billion dollars per year bribing Mexico's corrupt generals and police officials, and armed confrontations between the Mexican army and U.S. Border Patrol agents are a real threat. There have been 118 documented incursions by the Mexican military over the last five years.

Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.

Immigration is a net drain on the economy; corporate interests reap the benefits of cheap labor, while taxpayers pay the infrastructural cost. FAIR research shows "the net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers."

"In the NAFTA era, a staggering 87 percent of Mexico's imports go to the United States, while Mexicans living in the United States send home more than $8 billion annually. Fox has said he considers his constituency to include the 22 million to 24 million Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in the United States. Mexican candidates now make campaign stops in U.S. cities like Los Angeles, Phoenix and Fresno, Calif." (Mexico's muddle, Ruben Navarrette Jr., March 26, 2003)

For more information, see The Washington Times article and series Chaos along the border, October 6, 2002, the FAIR reports Immigration and the Economy, Immigration Lowers Wages for American Workers, and the article Record amount of remittances sent from US to Mexico.

Remittances

$60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S. Economists say this will help Mexico reduce its $17.8 billion defecit and may bolster the peso. $10 billion dollars (as of 2003) are sent back to Mexico annually, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, reported in an Associated Press article, up $800 million from the previous year. ($9 billion dollars were previously sent back annually, according to a September 25, 2002 NPR report). That figure equals what Mexico earns annually from tourism. This is a massive transfer of wealth from America - essentially from America's displaced working poor - to Mexico.

A May 28, 2004 study by Bendixen & Associates6 found that legal and illegal immigrants send a total of $30 billion to their home countries on an annual basis. Mexico receives $13.3 billion a year. The largest amount in remittances ($9.6 billion) is sent from California, followed by New York ($3.6 billion), Texas ($3.2 billion) and Florida ($2.5 billion). Of those surveyed by the study, 24% were Latin American-born U.S. citizens, 39% were legal residents, and 32% were illegal aliens. Sixty-one per cent of those surveyed send remittances overseas at least once a month. A typical remittance is between $150 and $250. (See this state-by-state map of remittances.)

Education costs

The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually—enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.9

For more information, see CAIR's education section.

It's estimated there may be over 300,000 anchor babies









Ok I copied and pasted part of the article. Fourth or fifthparagraph down it says an estimated one to ten billion are contributed. I assume taxes as the paragraph speaks of taxes. Also it would go inline with numbers others here have posted. But say its not taxes. Even if they spend ten billion a year which is the highest figure and pay two billion in taxes numbers still show economic loss...


 
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