Lets DEBUNK this once and for all... CHEM-TRAILS

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Goethe

 

I need some information about what you consider to be the offending planes.

1. Do you think it's any plane at random and some sneaky folks are putting bad juice in the fuel?

2. is it military?

3. is it a secret organization other than military?

4. since it seems to happen all over the globe, do you think it's just one country, or are they all involved?

while I am proud to be on anyones Foe list, I would still like to participate.

Last first ok, Im sorry to anyone I added as a foe, I didnt think it was disrespectful or anything, I just add when I disagree with someone on an issue. Just so I know whos who. No harm meant. I thought thats why they were there. I dont consider you a foe really, just someone I disagree with.




Now, to your questions... Ill try to answer with my best theories... Cause honestly, thats all I offer.

1: I think its a small group of planes. Dont know how many would be needed, but if it does go on, its people with more money than enough to do it right?

2: Ill go out on a limb and say yea, it would have to be to some degree. I dont think they may control it or run it, but it wouldnt happen without them knowing at some level.

3: Secret how? The military is a pretty secretive bunch too aint it? Anything has a level of secrecy to it, but I tend to think specifically NATO would be involved.

4: If NATO is involved, that explains why so many nations have this issue.

And you contribute to the discussion so why wouldnt I want you to post?



Anyone, even those I disagree with I want to hear from. Thats how we learn.


Like Ive learned alot from this thread and have got alot of useful docs too in the process form some of you.


I think its been a good thread so far and hope it only gets better!

reply to post by Goethe


here is where I was going with that. It can't be commercial planes. If you want to know why, we can go into all that, but i don't think there is any need. If it's military planes, then it must be a really covert operation. I was in the Air Force and have a good idea about cargo planes. I an not naive enough to think that I saw every type of air frame that exists in our arsenal, but the ones that chemmies keep taking pictures of look an awful lot like KC-135s or DC 10s. Some military planes have white bellys to blend in with the cloud cover. AWACS frames on one that comes to mind. Since soldiers will keep pretty good secrets, I can see how it might have been possible for this to remain under wraps. But if it's chemicals that are dangerous, don't you think that some of the people who were involved with this project would be a bit concerned about their families and friends? I have never heard of a person "coming out" about this phenomenon. That in itself, is a big red flag for me. Secondly, you would assume congress or at least some members would have knowledge of this information. Why do they go outside without protection?

there are just so many holes in this theory that it seems real unlikely. Yes planes have sprayed stuff before. I am sure they "military" sprayed some wonderful things on people in Vietnam. But that is the exception and not the rule. (IMHO)

Cloud seeding is normal and has nothing at all to do with chemtrails.

lastly, anytime someone comes here and claims that the ones that last all day and turn into clouds are chem trails, and the ones that dissipate quickly are con trails, haven't learned anything at all about weather. I admit, I didn't know anything at all about upper atmosphere conditions until I started participating in chemtrail threads. but since I started out neutral, it was easy for me to see the science as truthful, and the chasing of manbearpig as kind of silly.

On any given day that you see what you think as persistent con-trails (IE- chem-trails) I invite you to photograph them and then contact Ozweatherman. He is a weatherman and seem to know his stuff. He will tell you if and why there were long lasting con-trails, and even give you the science behind it. That is if you are looking for real information. if you are searching for company to share in the "they are out to get us" room, enjoy the bliss.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Goethe

 

here is where I was going with that. It can't be commercial planes. If you want to know why, we can go into all that, but i don't think there is any need. If it's military planes, then it must be a really covert operation. I was in the Air Force and have a good idea about cargo planes. I an not naive enough to think that I saw every type of air frame that exists in our arsenal, but the ones that chemmies keep taking pictures of look an awful lot like KC-135s or DC 10s. Some military planes have white bellys to blend in with the cloud cover. AWACS frames on one that comes to mind. Since soldiers will keep pretty good secrets, I can see how it might have been possible for this to remain under wraps. But if it's chemicals that are dangerous, don't you think that some of the people who were involved with this project would be a bit concerned about their families and friends? I have never heard of a person "coming out" about this phenomenon. That in itself, is a big red flag for me. Secondly, you would assume congress or at least some members would have knowledge of this information. Why do they go outside without protection?

there are just so many holes in this theory that it seems real unlikely. Yes planes have sprayed stuff before. I am sure they "military" sprayed some wonderful things on people in Vietnam. But that is the exception and not the rule. (IMHO)

Cloud seeding is normal and has nothing at all to do with chemtrails.

lastly, anytime someone comes here and claims that the ones that last all day and turn into clouds are chem trails, and the ones that dissipate quickly are con trails, haven't learned anything at all about weather. I admit, I didn't know anything at all about upper atmosphere conditions until I started participating in chemtrail threads. but since I started out neutral, it was easy for me to see the science as truthful, and the chasing of manbearpig as kind of silly.

On any given day that you see what you think as persistent con-trails (IE- chem-trails) I invite you to photograph them and then contact Ozweatherman. He is a weatherman and seem to know his stuff. He will tell you if and why there were long lasting con-trails, and even give you the science behind it. That is if you are looking for real information. if you are searching for company to share in the "they are out to get us" room, enjoy the bliss.

Good response. And heres my reply.

I completely agree about the AirForce and military in general. Some like to say secrets dont stay that way, but sometimes they do, and sometimes they dont.

Well, your thinking about those involved not wanting to breath anything in or anyone they know, I agree. But, heres where I can see the other side of that coin...

Maybe they dont think its bad. Maybe they were told its to stop global warming... Also, how do we know they arent living in a protected area not being sprayed? I mean, we dont really know, and we dont really know how many people would be involved or in the know.

(tinfoil hat moment here: what if they took a vaccine and they dont need to worry?)

I dont really know honestly, but there seems to be enough stuff out there that says something is going on.

My point about the cloud seeding is only that we do spray the skies for certain issues, which is geoengineering. Which some claim doesnt happen. It does, and it has for decades. I wasnt trying to say that theyre chemtrails. Just that we have done stiff like this in the name of good.

But what if they think its for radar purposes? If they just though it was some random thing, pilots and ground crew might not be in the know...

I wasnt privy to everything above my pay grade...

And others have mentioned a weatherman here, but Ive seen the night time news before and dont put alot of stock in them honestly.

Not meant to offend any weatherman, but you guys dont get it right often enough to say otherwise.


Im fimalar enough with some of the stuff with the atmosphere and related topics. (I have family involved with HAARP)



Good response


[edit on 10-5-2010 by Goethe]

Also, maybe if politicians do know like D.K. from Ohio, maybe they just know its pointless to not go outside so they dont when they dont have too. I dont live with them so I cant so for sure...


But I dont go out when its bad now. Only if its sunny and clear or normal clouds.

Heres 2 questions for some of the debunkers...


Does GeoEngineering go on, and has it ever in the past?


Would it be plausible if these chemtrails do in fact exist, they could be trying to stop global warming?

Those are my two entire points in my past posts Goethe! Obviously there is an extreme relucatance to even touch these matters by some. There are reports, hundreds of pages long, among the Royal Society, other UN-related organizations, universities everywhere, and it's too much for them to handle lol

Originally posted by Goethe
And others have mentioned a weatherman here, but Ive seen the night time news before and dont put alot of stock in them honestly.

Not meant to offend any weatherman, but you guys dont get it right often enough to say otherwise.

There's a big difference between a TV weatherman - someone paid to look good and read the weather forecast - and a meteorologist who studies the weather and what causes it.

Bit like the difference between a delivery van driver and someone who designs state of the art sprots cars.

If I were discussing current motor engineering technology, I'd take more notice of the sports car designer than I would of the delivery van driver.


And, for the record, even us amateur forecasters get it mostly right most of the time

reply to post by Goethe

So, sorry I cant grant your request of access to him...

That's fine, if he won't (or can't) go online, and come visit ATS.

Does he email? Have a pnone? YOU could contact, and ask again, see what he has to say...

As to what he has told me, its not really that damning.

Then, where are you getting all of these notions? Oh, I know where...

He didnt get into details. All he said was some of the planes in the air leave these lasting trails. Longer than contrails, but different.

What did he retire off of, from Delta? What equipment? HOW long ago???

Sounds to me that he just wasn't going to go into all the details, to explain all the meteorology and science stuff, and YOU took it as some sort of "clamming up," just because he used to be USAF?


Here...perhaps you haven't seen one of the many posts where I point people to this site:

flightaware.com...

You're in New Jersey, so center the flight aware sector on 'KEWR' for Newark Airport, or maybe if you're farther south, use 'KPHL' for Philly...heck, you can play with it too, anywhere in the Lower 48 States.

Will let you identify those airplanes, real-time, as they fly over, IF you are patient enough.

Also, use this: skyvector.com...

Your Uncle will know how, but I take it he's not nearby atm...

Again, use 'KEWR', just for starters. You will have a choice of aviation charts to select. This will help you identify local ground landmarks, and compare to the Airway structure, especially the Jet Airway route structure.

First charts that appear are VFR charts, they will be easier reference to a layperson.

THEN, click on one of the "Enroute H-XX" tabs. (Where, 'H' means 'High Altitude', and the 'XX' denotes the chart number).

You will then see the respective Jet Airway charts, which will show you the types of routes being flown.

Keep in mind, airplanes often are vectored off route, or they request a more direct routing, and are granted that request, all sorts of things.

The charts, available on that site, have panels on the end, somewhere, devoted to deciphering what all the symbols mean, so with some time you should be able to teach yourself how to interpret and read everything.

There are probably resources online to help with that, too.

(Or, your Uncle can show you how, in a snap).

Originally posted by Goethe
Maybe they dont think its bad. Maybe they were told its to stop global warming...

If it is to stop Global Warming, I hope someone clues Al Gore in so he will close his pie hole.

it would be incredibly stupid to attempt to fix a problem that may not even exist. Much like importing rabid wolves to keep the rabbit population in check. //oh no! now we have all these rabid wolves running around!//

, how do we know they arent living in a protected area not being sprayed? I mean, we dont really know, and we dont really know how many people would be involved or in the know.

(tinfoil hat moment here: what if they took a vaccine and they dont need to worry?)

I dont really know honestly, but there seems to be enough stuff out there that says something is going on.

I would disagree that there is sufficient evidence to believe they are real.

My point about the cloud seeding is only that we do spray the skies for certain issues, which is geoengineering. Which some claim doesnt happen. It does, and it has for decades. I wasnt trying to say that theyre chemtrails. Just that we have done stiff like this in the name of good.

But what if they think its for radar purposes? If they just though it was some random thing, pilots and ground crew might not be in the know...

I wasnt privy to everything above my pay grade...

I wasn't privy to ANYTHING above my pay grade. But I did spend a lot of time in and around MAC aircraft.

And others have mentioned a weatherman here, but Ive seen the night time news before and dont put alot of stock in them honestly.

Not meant to offend any weatherman, but you guys dont get it right often enough to say otherwise.


Im fimalar enough with some of the stuff with the atmosphere and related topics. (I have family involved with HAARP)



Good response


[edit on 10-5-2010 by Goethe]

The weatherman I speak of is a member here. He studies weather balloon readings and is into the real science behind things. He is not the pretty looking guy on TV who wouldn't know a thunderstorm if he got hit in the ass with a bolt of lightning. (OZ, don't take it personal, you may be a real pretty guy, I just have never seen you.)

He will be able to tell you why the clouds lingered, and he will probably be able to tell you what the weather is/was the next day.

Excellent thread, starred and flagged.

You have stated that you never saw chemtrails in Ohio but see them all of the time in New Jersey. Moving to the area near New York City kind of makes sense that one would see increased air activity. I live near Chicago and see supposed chemtrails all of the time. Populated areas seem to yield the best results when it comes to chemtrails.

Thanks for the info guys.


Im going to spend some more time reading some of the threads and docs provided by some here so far.

Doesnt anyone have any images of trails around their way?

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
Excellent thread, starred and flagged.

Thanks!

Glad ya enjoyed it.

I want others to not believe what I say, but listen to what I say.
If you choose to believe, great, if not, ok. But be open and lets talk about it.

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
You have stated that you never saw chemtrails in Ohio but see them all of the time in New Jersey. Moving to the area near New York City kind of makes sense that one would see increased air activity. I live near Chicago and see supposed chemtrails all of the time. Populated areas seem to yield the best results when it comes to chemtrails.

And to be fair, I lived in a very out in the woods area too in Ohio.

Boonies really.


Ive seen them before, but not like this.

The ones I see now are way different. Ive lived in major cities and know what airtraffic cause and how contrails look.

Jersey is different though. Really bad here, but only on nice days. If its cloudy out already, no spraying. Today there wasnt a single one. Nothing, but one normal contrail.

If chemtrails don't exist, then why was the Discover channel recently forced to not air their 1 hour episode on chemtrails? they recorded the top conspiracies of all time and subsequently aired episodes on 9/11 and JFK's assassination, for example, but were forced to not air their episode on chemtrails...

I would love to see that unaired episode. The footage exists somewhere...

I am well aware of recent discovery channel episodes but a couple of years ago many on this board were excited, including me, for Discovery's airing of Chemtrails only to see the episode pulled 2 weeks before it was supposed to air. There must have been something they needed to change before they could air such sensitive material. They didn't pull any of the other conspiracy episodes mere weeks before airing...

[edit on 10-5-2010 by LooseLipsSinkShips]

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
You have stated that you never saw chemtrails in Ohio but see them all of the time in New Jersey. Moving to the area near New York City kind of makes sense that one would see increased air activity. I live near Chicago and see supposed chemtrails all of the time. Populated areas seem to yield the best results when it comes to chemtrails.

not that I am singling you out, but what you said needs attention. Populated areas have much more air traffic. It comes in from all directions. On a day that would yield high amounts of cloud cover, would probably look like "GRIDS" all over the sky. When in fact, it was just normal air traffic on a given day. I live in the country, so I don't see alot of them, but I see a few contrails.

I just don't see how chem-trails could be at all what the conspiracy claims they are.

Originally posted by Goethe
Jersey is different though. Really bad here, but only on nice days. If its cloudy out already, no spraying. Today there wasnt a single one. Nothing, but one normal contrail.

have you noticed that on some nice days, there seems to be no spraying? And then by some miracle, it is nice the next day as well. In fact, it seems that chem-trails bring bad weather. or perhaps, the upper atmosphere is a good indicator of bad weather forming, and it showing you con-trails, is indicative of the weather. perhaps.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
You have stated that you never saw chemtrails in Ohio but see them all of the time in New Jersey. Moving to the area near New York City kind of makes sense that one would see increased air activity. I live near Chicago and see supposed chemtrails all of the time. Populated areas seem to yield the best results when it comes to chemtrails.

not that I am singling you out, but what you said needs attention. Populated areas have much more air traffic. It comes in from all directions. On a day that would yield high amounts of cloud cover, would probably look like "GRIDS" all over the sky. When in fact, it was just normal air traffic on a given day. I live in the country, so I don't see alot of them, but I see a few contrails.

I just don't see how chem-trails could be at all what the conspiracy claims they are.

This is true. An advocate of chemtrails could say that the most urban areas need the chemtrails to counteract pollution or for an increased need in population control. That's why this thing will be debated forever. There's always two sides of the coin.

Double Post, My bad.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by LooseLipsSinkShips]