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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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I have one Question and am sure someone has a plausible explanation.

If Rome still rules the world by treaties and contracts that started 1000's of years ago then why doesn't summon just attack Vatican city and steal these binding contracts and destroy them?

I am sure they could get other countries to not retaliate by saying "Hey stand down and I'll rip up all contracts binding you also"

I would assume these binding contracts are stored in the Vatican's Library Vault.




posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





Agreed my friend, it seems like a lot of 'best practices' that held societies functionally together before Christian Rome were wiped out, in many ways just to validate the notion of the God in a bizarre way.


Exodus 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live;"


Leviticus 19:31 "'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

This is the one that shows it is about stamping out other religions:
Jeremiah 27:9 So do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your interpreters of dreams, your mediums or your sorcerers who tell you, 'You will not serve the king of Babylon.'

Witches or wise women were targeted because that is where the knowledge of a captured race would often be preserved. The older men and especially the leaders tended to get killed off during raids and war so heritage was passed through the women. Women were often the farmers and men the raiders and hunters. Livestock was tended by children as is still true to day. I ran into a six year? girl and her dog tending a herd of cows in the Great Pyrennees as well as several other slightly older children with that same occupation.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 





Far more likely that a very good "double" was put into play, and that the double died, and was cremated...


Given he had warnings AND dismissed his guard that sure as heck makes a lot of sense!



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Adamanteus
I have one Question and am sure someone has a plausible explanation.

If Rome still rules the world by treaties and contracts that started 1000's of years ago then why doesn't summon just attack Vatican city and steal these binding contracts and destroy them?

I am sure they could get other countries to not retaliate by saying "Hey stand down and I'll rip up all contracts binding you also"

I would assume these binding contracts are stored in the Vatican's Library Vault.


Sacking the Vatican has been tried before, by Napoleon Bonaparte. It is believed that Napoleon had the entire Vatican Archives moved to Paris, that at various points he held the Pope captive or hostage, and that among other things that he forced the Pope to attend his coronation as Emperor of France and to crown him in the ceremony, just to snatch the crown from his hands and place it on his own head.

As usual we know what history (Rome) wants us to know of this period, but it’s important to note a few important things, one is that eventually everything carted off to France ended back in the Vatican, and two, is that Napoleon died an excruciatingly painful and slow death by arsenic poison after being exiled.

We also know some other things or at least one can conclude some other things. One is Napoleon transformed much of the European Continent and through that process appears to have been either specifically working towards helping the Papal Rothschild Family expand and consolidate it’s hegemony over the International Banking Cartel.

It is presumed in many conspiracy circles that the Russian Revolution that did away with the last Czar of Russia and his family, was about the Czar’s refusal to allow Rothschild to do his families and the nation’s banking. So it could be considered Napoleon’s attempt to conquer Russia was for much the same reason. A strong possibility when one considers Napoleon also attacked and smashed Switzerland’s system of Canton Government, and that the Rothschild’s bankrupted most of the English aristocracy and the nation itself by stock manipulation by starting a rumor that Napoleon had won the Battle of Waterloo as opposed to Lord Wellington in the immediate aftermath of the battle by taking advantage of the slow system of communications in that present day and age. We do know that the Rothschild family was able to during this short 48-72 hour period, pick up for pennies on the dollar most of England’s public and private wealth in the panic that ensued because of the rumor Napoleon won.

So was the tail (Napoleon) wagging the dog (Vatican) or was the dog wagging its tale.

Rome has long been the master of deception, so it’s likely the dog was wagging it’s tale and not the other way around, as the Vatican began it’s metamorphous into a institution who’s real power is hard to gauge because of layer after layer of banks, agents and secret societies that do it’s bidding but are made to appear publicly to be entirely independent.

Now to better understand the complexity of the equation, it helps to understand or at least consider a few important fundamental things.

One: Is that a contract is a contract and establishes the legality of an arrangement through formal agreement between principal and or sovereign parties.

Two: Most important contractual arrangements produce several original copies at the time of signing.

Three: That those originals are usually not all stored in the same place and they are usually kept in secure locations.

Four: Most contracts in fact establish the logistics of a system, with that system becoming vital to the parties of the contract’s success in a particular endeavor.

Now focusing on number Four, the logistics of a system, let’s consider first the Vatican’s system of governance that has carved up the entire globe into Diocese (Roman States) each ruled over by a Cardinal.

Within each Diocese dwell a number of common people who are Catholic, and believe the Catholic Church to be the true and pathway to God and Heaven and Heavenly rewards.

So in other words a whole lot of people who aren’t going to accept any reason for attacking Rome, even if it were as simple and straightforward as doing so for the expressed purpose of seizing it’s archives and contracts and fully disclosing them.

Of course the other sects and branches of the monotheistic system built up around the same God might actually also see a logistical danger to them in setting a precedent where the headquarters of a worldwide Church can be militarily attacked and destroyed. Most would recognize that it enhances there own danger of having the same happen to them.

That the logistics of their religious systems too are more vulnerable as a result of setting such a dangerous precedent, and that the institutions that are the manifestation of their temporal power are fair game.

So first we have to consider the logistics of ‘church’ and organized religion and how they come in to play.

Second, we have to consider the backlash to the State. If the United States Government was founded with it’s principals and successive principals each and all knowing full well that the United States is a Roman State contractually bound to Rome, with Rome at the top of the Pyramid, and that has always been hidden by a series of myths and lies, how then does a Government who wishes to disclose that after hundreds of years maintain it’s credibility with the people?

By saying we once lied to you because it was in our advantage and now it’s in our advantage too, to tell you the truth?

The whole system of governance is now in jeopardy as the average person has no choice but to accept it as not just a dishonest institution but has always been a dishonest institution.

It would in fact be hanging itself, and while people would be questioning the government’s integrity, reliability and veracity, you would have at the same time the religious of the world taking advantage of that by suggesting that a government or governments doing that were evil, and doing the work of Satan, that religion is the only honest thing, and the wrath of God will descend on the combined populace for attacking God’s institutions and lying about them.

Yet above all what Contracts do establish is the basic agreement for and blueprint for a logistical system.

Between States and establishing States that becomes about the rule of law, without the rule of law, states, and the statist system can not exist.

This is often why it is very rare in a case where a nation like Egypt is going through what it is going, where the Governments of another nation actually want to help the people rebel against the State.

It simply gives people the idea that yes you can change your system of Government outside of the law, outside of the rule of law, by taking to the streets and disregarding the law.

That’s a risky lesson to teach the populace of any nation in the Statist system and the only time they do is during times of outright war where another State with Rome’s blessing is trying to seize control of that nation’s logistical system, and resources, and can through that massive endeavor more safely convince the people of it’s own nation that it is about rescuing the people of another nation from a bad government, through a legal and formalized process known as Declared Wars.

Maintaining the rule of law is what allows the Statist system to work, and while the contracts establish how the Statist system works, who the principals are, what their powers and privileges are, what their guaranteed rights are, this creates a logistical system that has real power on the ground that supersedes while enforcing the contracts.

So those principles who own the banks and the resources, and the vital infrastructure of a nation and ideally control them to do what in times of rebellion in a place like Egypt?

Close the banks, no more money being brought into circulation, close the gas stations, no more gasoline to get from point A to point B to challenge the State, close the communication lines, no more phones or internet to coordinate your rebellion, close the distribution points and warehouses so there is no more food and basics to feed and sustain yourself to carry out your rebellion, and shut down the transportation hubs, so there is no more mass or public transit to carry out your rebellion.

Meanwhile of course it calls out the police, army, and media to do everything it can to prop up the rebellion.

Why? Because it can, because it has all those things contractually at it’s disposal and has all those rights and privileges through them and the rule of law.

In short no Government in bed with Rome, and no Institution in bed with Rome could survive Rome’s exposure and downfall, because they would have a lot of answering to do to the people they had long lied to and manipulated for Rome.

Each government and each institution would want to ensure and perpetuate it’s power at what ever cost it took by using the logistics of it’s governments and institutions and the resources they control to do that, but most importantly to claim the absolute right to do that through the Rule of Law.

Rome is the Rule of Law as people know it, even though they don’t really fully connect the dots as to Rome being behind it.

Challenge the Rule of Law and everything that the Law is based upon, which is Rome and the entire statist system and infrastructure collapses, pandemonium, hardships, deprivation and chaos ensues, and who comes out on top of all that, when and where is something that ultimately ends up being forged in blood to do what? Establish a new Rule of Law.

Establishing a new Rule of Law is easier said than done, and one need only look to Iraq or Afghanistan to see how difficult, tenuous and violent that is.

The States and their principals don’t challenge Rome for one simple reason, it’s not in their interests, the contracts are not simply mere agreements that establish a pecking order or ownership, the contracts establish a very real logistical system full of very relevant, powerful and pertinent things that create the stability and systems that make societies and states stable for themselves and their citizens.

In short it’s not as easy as ripping up some pieces of paper.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





Simple followers of the written word which they ascribe to and live out verbatim without trying to interpret, question or pick and choose from, they do enjoy a nearly completely atonymous life with the Government rarely intruding in any way into their communities or on to their lands...

So yes, regardless of the origins of Jesus's teachings, those who want to follow them verbatim in this fashion, do enjoy a very real type of immunity from the state.

NOT ANY MORE!



Unfortunately that just changed in recent years. 40% of the USA is Farmland. 25% of the world's food is grown in the USA. The elite have decided it is now time to bring the food supply under their complete control and the "simple folk" are in the way. Here is Purdue University Agricultural Economics with research papers such as:

THE GLOBALIZATION OF CORPORATE CRIME: FOOD AND AGRICULTURAL CARTELS OF THE 1990s - March 1, 2003

Statistics On Modern Private International Cartels 1990-2005

INTERNATIONAL PRICE FIXING: RESURGENCE AND DETERRENCE

A Critique of Leniency for Cartels by the U.S. Department of Justice


These are the guys who WROTE the food safety Law of 2010. This food safety law just passed not to mention good old EPA are taking aim at the Amish! I can not find the reference but the new law specifically states RELIGIOUS BELIEFS will NOT exempt farmers from the law. The worst lie, found all over the internet is that The Tester Ammendment exempts "Small Farms" - It is a Scam

FOOD SAFETY BILL

... (*Writer’s note: I made my own calls to these offices and when I stated what I was calling in reference to, the staffers got really nasty and then hung up)

In fact Sen. Kohl’s staffer, Kim Cates’ husband is on the Agriculture Consumer Protection Citizen board. He would not even meet with John Kinsman of Family Farm Defenders to discuss the issue.

On the state level are the continuous lies. These people will say Premises ID has nothing to do with NAIS. They say this even though they have been shown the cooperative agreement between USDA and Wisconsin DATCP outlining Premises ID as the first step. They refuse to look at or acknowledge the legal documents.

DATCP had a document on the Wisconsin Legislative information Bureau site saying that the Amish don’t have any problem with this. If the Amish don’t have a problem with it why are they suing Emmanuel Miller Jr., an Amish from Clark County?




...But farmers like Mr. Stoltzfus (Amish) are facing growing scrutiny for agricultural practices that the federal government sees as environmentally destructive....

“There’s much, much work that needs to be done, and I don’t think the full community understands,” said David McGuigan, the E.P.A. official leading an effort by the agency to change farming practices here in Lancaster County....

But the focus on the plain-sect dairy farmers is unavoidable: they own more than 50 percent of Lancaster County’s 5,000-plus farms.

For now, the environmental agency’s strategy is to approach each farmer individually in collaboration with state and local conservation officials and suggest improvements... But if that does not work, the government will have to resort to fines and penalties... www.nytimes.com...



FDA Raids Amish Farmer Dan Allgyer
...Two months prior, on February 4, FDA agents had trespassed on Allgyer’s farm, claiming to be conducting an “investigation.”

Two were from the FDA, agent Joshua C. Schafer who had been there in February and another. They showed me identification, but I was too flustered to ask for their cards. I remember being told that two were deputy U.S. Marshals and one a state trooper. They started asking me questions right away. They handed me a paper and I didn’t realize what it was. Agent Joshua C. Schafer told me they were there to do a “routine inspection.” At 5:00 in the morning, I wondered to myself? ”Do you have a warrant?” I asked, and one of them, a marshal or the state policeman, said, “You’ve got in your hand buddy.” I asked, “What is the warrant about?” Schafer responded, “We have credible evidence that you are involved in interstate commerce.”

...I read the warrant. Among other things it said that any search was to be conducted “at reasonable times during ordinary business hours.” When I exclaimed, “Ordinary business hours!” and pointed this out to the marshal who was dogging me, he said, “Ordinary business hours for agriculture start at 5:00 a.m.” I challenged him that the warrant does not say agriculture hours, it said ordinary hours. He replied, “That’s what the government told us.”

Judge dismisses registration case against Amish farmer

12th Amish man faces Morristown permit violation

Judge Rules in Favor of Amish in Animal ID Case



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


It's true that the Amish have faced more scrutiny and intrusion in recent years, but they do seem to win the majority of if not basically all the Court Cases being brought against them.

As organic and natural foods have found a place in a chemical laden market place, so too have demands for Amish goods.

Believe it or not down here in Sunny South Florida where yes it is yet another perfect 80 degree day is small chain (two stores) of Penn Dutch Markets where every morning trucks arrive straight from the Pennsylvania Dutch Farm Land full of natural beef and produce to compliment an amazing array of baked goods made fresh daily on the spot.

The quality of the poultry, beef, produce and baked goods they sell is about 50% better than you would find at a typical chain grocers at a price of about 40% less. A substantial increase in quality and a substantial decrease in price.

I sometimes get nostalgic and go myself, since I was born in Pennsylvania and partially raised in a rural farming community and visited Amish Country frequently for their annual arts and crafts festivals.

Want a made in America Grandfather Clock that's hand made, or chest of drawers, well chances are you are going to have to get that from the Amish too.

Hand blown glass, ditto, want a loom or spinning wheel to make your Lexington or Park Avenue Sewing Room the talk of your housewarming party, well you better go see the Amish.

What Penn Dutch here in South Florida displays clearly, with it's jammed full parking lot, elbow room only shopping and 16 open cashier lines with 6 to 10 people waiting to check out at each one, is a corporate business power made possible through growing and building techniques and materials long discarded by the corporate elite.

In deed the people who are not Amish who live in Lancaster and the surrounding communities very much resent the Amish despite their Christian principles and simple ways. They hate that they use horses and buggies and the horses defecate all over the road, they hate that they basically indoctrinate their children into a lifestyle where they are more or less kept sheltered from main stream America in what they view as a 'cult like' environment, they hate that Amish women are stay at home mothers and that the Amish men wear the pants in the family, they hate their simple and overly formal dress, but most of all they hate how much land they own and how much money they make.

So living the simple life as put forth in the Bible is not really appealing to mainstream Christians and not even admirable in most of their eyes, all the while the temptations of big money exist.

Indeed in recent years some Amish have been using some self generated electric equipment such as lathes to make some of their products, and a couple appear to now even be using some computerized equipment powered off of self generated electricity in an attempt to keep up with demand in the markets for their goods that are increasingly popular because of a high level of quality and craftsmanship and durability no longer found from corporate outlets, manufacturers, grocers and retailers.

So yes, I believe the Government is hopeful that at some point they are going to start grossing that line where they begin to foresake more and more of their principles to gain a bigger share of interstate commerce, and yes, in so doing that will open them up to a whole new world of regulation and scrutiny.

Money remains the root of all evil and temptations and while the Amish have skirted a fine line between making lots of it and not sacrificing their religious principles, Rome displays one thing primarily, and that is where temptation abounds, people will often succumb to it.

Every Amish child when they turn 19 is cast out into the world for one year, they have a year to live a non-Amish life and a year to decide whether they want to return to Amish country for the rest of their life and live the Amish lifestyle or abandon it.

Two interesting things here, though most people aren't aware that they were made a piece of corporate property of the State through their State Birth Certificate, Social Security Cards and other Social Contracts taken out for them in the name of your parents, you have likewise your 19th year of life to opt out of them. Of course unlike the Amish most people are unaware that they have been contracted into a system and have an opt out period.

Perhaps they are not made aware because fewer and fewer Amish Children are opting to return to Amish Country to live that simple life.

Rome tends to bind you one way or another.

So yes, if the Amish lose their strict religious principles and begin embracing more technology and expanding their lucrative markets in meat, poultry, deli, dairy, baked goods, and arts and crafts directly (for the most part they are using brokers acquiring it locally who then tack on a fee and redistribute mostly within national laws) then yes they will be forced to incorporate into the Statist/Government fold and likely lose their religious protections or status.

So it all plays into IamIam's religious thinking of what will sustain a person, their faith in God and God's rules, or their desire to benefit and enjoy everything the State offers through temptation, greed, edict, or decree?

That's an eternal struggle and the Amish still are holding their own for the most part, but yes their are some real cracks in the facade and yes the government and the corporations would very much like to do away with them.

In the end, and the Amish know this, and they know it well, it's all about what you contract into, and whether the benefit of that is worthwhile.

They Amish will render unto Caesar that which they must, and they do, it just remains to be seen as always how much ultimately they want to yield to Caesar and how much they want to yield to their Lord and Lifestyle.

Great post, thanks for sharing that.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 





But I clearly see a state of harmony between the Essene rituals and Christianity as well.


This whole thing reminds me of what is going on today with World manipulator extraordinaire Maurice Strong, former deputy secretary general of the United Nations, and his mystic wife Hanne. That is a group of leaders looking at several religions and picking an choosing what they want to use in creating a "New Religion" Then as now the aim is control of the masses by controlling their minds. It is no accident that the nobility has supplied the priests from their second and third sons or that the Roman Catholic Church even in my youth forbid the lay people to read the bible.

Mom and I while babysitting some neighbors going to Catholic School were appalled at some of the utter crap TAUGHT by the school's text book. The one that sticks in my mind is "John the baptist was the only man born without sin because Mary and John's mother rubbed tummies!" (Adam of course was the other man born with out sin) The kids by the way were completely shocked that we had any knowledge of the teaching in the bible - Dad had studied to be a Lutheran minister.

Are we seeing a repeat of Proto's theory today?

Strong has gathered religious leaders of different faiths from all over the world to "create a New Earth-Friendly Religion"


Sure looks like what Proto has suggested here is playing out in the real world as we speak.


[Strong] is working as diligently as he can with his mystic second wife Hanne to help create a New Earth-Friendly Religion...

Some equally high-powered and influential people come to his ranch to share his dreams and encourage more dreaming, people with names like Rockefeller, Kissinger, McNamara, Trudeau, Moyers, the Dalai Lama, Shirley MacLane ~ along with countless other dignitaries, politicians, businessmen, media moguls, actors and actresses......

...Hanne Strong prophesied: 'It will not be too distant before the Baca attains its true potential. 'You will see more and more world leaders of various fields coming here to help the world community put into action proper enlightened plans that will eliminate problems...solving the political, social, and environmental difficulties of the world.' Her millionaire husband shares her dreams, and is financing the settlement of various religious houses: a Carmelite monastery where men and women live together, a $175,000 solar-powered Hindu Temple, a monastery for Tibetan Buddhists, temples for Sufis and Taoists, a center for the study of Jewish mysticism, a center for environmentalists from the Aspen Institute ~ all in the effort to create a New World Religion based on earth spirituality that will be more tolerant than the 'ancient' religions. Hanne calls it 'The Valley of the Refuge of World Truths,' and FTM's Colorado correspondent says the place is growing by leaps and bounds.

Once the religious component is in place, the Strongs think, corporate and political leaders will follow, making the Baca Complex the 'Vatican City' of the New World Order. Today, the area is booming, and there are plans for a complex of futuristic buildings, including a 300-foot pyramid. Making His Mark On The World Just who is Maurice Strong? West magazine reporter Daniel Wood spent a week with Strong and his wife Hanne in preparation for his story, and he found himself 'wondering what dedication, what idealism compels them toward such an unlikely dream. And the more I learn, the more aware I become that I've entered a world of illusions, where the surface conceals things unfathomable. That world sound just like the United Nations!

www.scribd.com...


And so history repeats....



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by Adamanteus
 


I assume all the provincial governors are in on it and bound by complex ties and obligations coupled with a healthy rivalry between the provinces acting as a natural break on any one leader deciding to cross the Rubicon in an attack on the central authority.

If at any time a leader springs up with the ego to try such a venture armies can be raised in other loyalist provinces to quell the rebellion, whatever the cost in stock and gold.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 





My dear dear Proto, this is yet again another deception of Rome. Christ taught that the kingdom of God is within you.....


Dear IAMIAM the belief in a higher being (GOD) and the belief that the powerful elite have used religion to control the THE GREAT UNWASHED AS THEY CALL US, is not mutually exclusive.

Greedy Sociopaths tend to rise to positions of power and wealth because they are utterly ruthless. To think they would not use and manipulate religion, especially when reading and writing were the province of the wealthy for thousands of years, is to deny reality.

The BOOKS, including religious texts were written by the sons of the wealthy! The books were copied because of "donations" from the wealthy! The holy monasteries were only left in peace BECAUSE the wealthy, armed to the teeth elite willed it so! Those are the key factors.

"Truth" in history is written by the victors. Knowledge is allowed only if it fits into the plans of the wealthy elite. Heck look at the global warming scam and how good old Maurice Strong and his buddies have scamed the people of the world for close to forty years despite scientific evidence to the contrary not to mention the internet.

Better yet look at the actual truth about Food Safety and the well publicized falsehoods designed to get the GREAT UNWASHED stampeded into demanding the government DO SOMETHING!

The festering FRAUD behind Food Safety Reform

Churches and the English Civil War:

...and due to purely military factors, many parliamentarians also sought for ideological and religious reasons to alter the fabric and fittings of churches, to remove and destroy physical elements and symbols which they associated with Roman Catholicism or with the high church, Laudian policies pursued by Charles I and his Archbishop of Canterbury, William Laud, during the pre-war period; for many opponents of these policies, Laudianism was effectively creeping Catholicism. Targets of this ‘iconoclasm’ included altar rails (many of them very recently installed), altars, stained glass, paintings on screens, the screens themselves, religious statues and carvings, crosses, vestments, prayer books and organs; around the same time, though not principally for religious reasons, royal arms and the tombs and effigies of some elite families were also sometimes damaged or defaced. Some of this religiously-motivated destruction was undertaken in a fairly methodical way, with campaigns of purification run during the mid 1640s in line with parliamentary policies and ordinances and overseen by mayors and aldermen or by semi-official commissioners... Oliver Cromwell



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto,

I admire and respect the Amish and their not being contracted by social security/control numbers into the government system. This is what makes them independent of the outside world. I admire this and their ability to function within their religion. This is their individual choice and I can respect this.
Those with out social security numbers are not in the government accounting system and not counted as cattle or property of the government. More power to them.

What I find of interest is that this alternate lifestyle is never told to the bulk of Americans...that it even exists..that people can live and manage without control/'social security numbers. I have known five people who do not have social security numbers and are not Amish. This is one of the governments carefully kept secrets and never taught or mentioned in public schools. Much more secret than the governments next military/pentagon secret.

reply to post by crimvelvet
 


History is indeed written by the victors. Nonetheless..from time to time there are people/individuals who read the history and find it severely lacking.

Concerning the English Civil War and the Anglican Church.

There were people in England ..Puritans who did not go along with the position of Rome nor the Anglican Church. They recognized that the Anglican Church was nothing but Rome with the Pope in London. The same services, the same candlesticks, the same goofy hats...rites et al. And these peoples were not into this. For by and large they began to realize that their Lord was not in Rome nor London and the King was only an administrator of just English Laws. The King was not "Divine Right." The Kings power was limited.

When the King passed his own tax to fund a continental war..in violation of the Magna Carta which stated only parliament could pass a tax...the struggle was on. And it was to be a bloody struggle this English Civil War.

The struggle gelled down to the concept that the king could be put on trial just like any man..and the king declared himself divine right and not to be put on trial or held accountable as were other men. Cromwell and the Puritans settled this question in 1649 when the axe fell and the blood of Charles 1st did not run royal blue.

What is more important to us here in the States is that our founders also knew this history...that when the King had broken the law...did the colonies have a duty and a precedent to turn on their king. Cromwell and the Puritans had settled this question as well. The precedent had been set. A people could indeed turn on their King and had done so.

This knowledge of not recognizing "Divine Right of Kings " is the origins of our Separation of Church and State. To keep the government out of the mischief of Divine Right of Kings ..European Leaders.
Separation of Church and State and the Knowledge of Divine Right of Kings ..absolute power is the origins of our "Limited Government."
All attempts since then have been to unleash the power of government over a peoples and to return to the olde ways of Feudalism/Divine Right of Kings/Absolute Power..in the hands of government..gnostic wise men.
All this under the cover of a New World Order. Make no mistake it is a return to absolute power/divine right of kings...Feudalism.
Separation of Church and State ..the historical reasons for it ..stemming from Divine Right of Kings is a topic arena avoided by todays educational system such that you do not connect the dots to todays government attempts to control everything and anything through commerce rules and regulation...and following attempts to control and regulate private property...Not to do away with the property but only the privateness of it.Thus everyone must be brought into the systems.

The Amish do not fit into this planned controlled system. They are outside of it. Their King is in Heaven..not in Washington DC., Rome, or London. This was also the case with the Puritans ..their King was in Heaven ..not on the throne of England.

Divine Right of Kings is Royalty...ie...Feudalism. What the NWO is promoting is a return to Feudalism..some men ruling over other men by logic by reason..that people cannot run their own affairs in their daily life. That they must have a class of educated peoples ruling over them...for their own good. Demi gods here on this earth.

A new religious dogma..a new bible..a new order.

I liked to read the Dune series of books by Frank Herbert. As I recall, his version of his new order was under a new and improved bible..with whiteners and brighteners. It was called "The Orange Catholic Bible." I had to laugh at this because I immediately recognized it as a NWO Technique. The combining of the Catholic and Protestant positions. Thesis/antithesis/synthesis. Hegelian to the core.

It is laughable if you know the "Occult position" of Rome and Rome's history and the fruit it produces..even unto this day.

However...do not think this is all of Rome ...for the Protestants have their Occult Position as well. I believe they have today crawled back into bed with Rome and have joined forces towards the same goal.

Thanks,
Orangetom

edit on 7-2-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



Oh how you have been deceived my friend. Please allow me to show you what Christ was trying to tell you with that passage.


That's what has been bugging me for some time now. You are asking for permission to show someone what Christ was trying tell them. Well I believe Christ would have the wherewithal to make His point clear and wouldn't need Iam to translate, correct? Ahh, but here is where it gets interesting. You have your ideas and I'm sure have like minded individuals who agree with you. You probably even turned a few who believed otherwise to believe what you believe the scriptures are saying.

This is all well and good but you must realize that interpretation of these scriptures have not been so harmonious. Can you say without a doubt that you have it all hammered out and are correct in how you see the scriptures and therefore can tell everyone without a doubt what is being said by an all powerful, all knowing being who apparently hasn't made things clear enough? We both know that no prophecy of the scriptures are of a private interpretation.

There are people who believe wholeheartedly that there will be no second coming and we have people who believe there will be. There are hoards of people who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and hoards who don't even believe in a rapture. There are tens of thousands who do not believe that the communion wafers turn into flesh and millions of people who do. I can go on and on.

There is one thing they can all agree upon though. That they are wretched and lost and in need of salvation and forgiveness. They just can't agree on the particulars of how to accomplish and sustain that forgiveness. There are those who believe you can lose your salvation and those who believe you cannot.

Enter Rome's baffling divide and conquer strategy. There were public bath houses in ancient Rome. All over the place. The citizens demanded them. They also demanded bread and circuses. Conquest of other lands paid for it all. The citizens demanded temples to their gods and were appeased. Now how do you get these spoiled citizens under control? I don't need an answer to that, I only put that there for pondering.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


As usual Proto, You have given the answer I was looking for and as usual have left me with more questions than I started with.

Thank you for stimulating my mind in a way that it hasn't been stimulated in years.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by jackflap
That's what has been bugging me for some time now. You are asking for permission to show someone what Christ was trying tell them. Well I believe Christ would have the wherewithal to make His point clear and wouldn't need Iam to translate, correct?


Apparently he does need I AM to correctly translate, but only when the plain words have been twisted to mean something else to fit an agenda. If they are read plainly and taken for what they say, then no translation is needed.


Originally posted by jackflap
Ahh, but here is where it gets interesting. You have your ideas and I'm sure have like minded individuals who agree with you. You probably even turned a few who believed otherwise to believe what you believe the scriptures are saying.


One can only hope my friend.



Originally posted by jackflap
This is all well and good but you must realize that interpretation of these scriptures have not been so harmonious. Can you say without a doubt that you have it all hammered out and are correct in how you see the scriptures and therefore can tell everyone without a doubt what is being said by an all powerful, all knowing being who apparently hasn't made things clear enough? We both know that no prophecy of the scriptures are of a private interpretation.


I do not deal in prophecy. What will happen will happen regardless of how someone wrote it down. All I concern myself with is what Christ actually taught his disciples. These lessons are clear simple truths that if were not supplanted by the Roman Empire and diverted from their original course, would have freed Man from both Roman and Religious authority. The prophecies, I could care less about.


Originally posted by jackflap
There are people who believe wholeheartedly that there will be no second coming and we have people who believe there will be. There are hoards of people who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and hoards who don't even believe in a rapture. There are tens of thousands who do not believe that the communion wafers turn into flesh and millions of people who do. I can go on and on.


The kingdom of God is within you. Believe what you want to believe. Christ wasn't telling any one how to believe, he was telling them how to live as free will beings, that no one would oppress them. That alone rules out any possibility that Christ was Caesar, unless of course the insinuation is that Caesar was freeing his people of his own rule. If that is the case then Hail Caesar! The word does not matter, the meaning behind the word is what does. Christ, Caesar, it is irrelevant if you read the teachings for what they were, you will be free of all rule on earth.


Originally posted by jackflap
There is one thing they can all agree upon though. That they are wretched and lost and in need of salvation and forgiveness. They just can't agree on the particulars of how to accomplish and sustain that forgiveness. There are those who believe you can lose your salvation and those who believe you cannot.


Forgiveness is easy. If one harms another, ask to be forgiven and be willing to forgive those who harm you. Then neither seeks revenge and there is no government involved to maintain order. Salvation is getting past all the pain that this world has inflicted on you. That is more difficult because we do not forgive each other. So, churches step in and fill the void that we should have never let develop between us. People go to church to feel good about themselves. They should feel good about themselves with everyone they meet.


Originally posted by jackflap
Enter Rome's baffling divide and conquer strategy. There were public bath houses in ancient Rome. All over the place. The citizens demanded them. They also demanded bread and circuses. Conquest of other lands paid for it all. The citizens demanded temples to their gods and were appeased. Now how do you get these spoiled citizens under control? I don't need an answer to that, I only put that there for pondering.


Exactly! Rome is not a conspiracy. Rome is what the people WANT. They are not willing to take the responsibility on their own shoulders. They are not willing to love one another. They are not willing to help one another. They are not willing to forgive one another. They are not willing to share with one another. They are not willing to LOVE one another.

So, the people have built Rome to do it for them. This way they can focus on themselves and have a hired arm maintain the order of everyone looking out for themselves.

Rome is the people!

With Love,

Your Brother
edit on 7-2-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


As always it's nice to see you posting and here on the boards my friend. As always you bring up some interesting points regarding religion, Christianity, and the frequently boxed in thinking that comes replete with it.

Whether Lucifer is a Venutian diety as some new-agers claim, is the one in the same as Satan as some occultists and esoterics disclaim, is a fallen angel, or equal or greater God than Yahweh is presumed to be one thing is very clear, and that even as part of the Judean/Christian/Islamic mindset, Freewill was introduced as a vital ellement to a happy and balanced life.

While the Garden of Eden was by all accounts a paradise, by most definition it was a beautiful prison of binding rules and monotony that after a while made it less than the paradise it is presented as being.

Adam was bored, Eve even more so, and the introduction of Freewill basically was the thing that alleviated that boredom and made it possible to disobey God's law, and to begin creating man's law.

Fast forward a few thousand mythical years and what you have is basically a two sided flip of the coin between the State's (Caesar's) laws, and God's laws, (at least as IamIam sees it) but still very little respect for the notion of freewill beyond that belief that there is something inherently evil about it, if it causes you to either disobey God or the State.

Now of course some trying to appease God or the State do see freewill as a test, something you have to have the discipline to reject if you want God and or the State to be happy with you.

What makes God happy is pretty much presented as being the same thing that makes the State happy, and that's obeying them in all things and shunning your freewill to do otherwise.

So what makes God and King equally happy it would seem is the notion of human beings as unquestioning slaves to God or State.

Is there really a difference between being a slave to God and being a slave to the State?

I would argue no, there is no difference except the type of service and servitude each expects.

End result, in either, don't use your freewill, try not to think, try to obey, try not to grow, just simply be, don't discover who you are, don't discover what you want to be, be what we want you to be.

So it really is just a two sided coin, and wouldn't you know, usually no matter what side of that coin you picked, the grass always holds out some promise of perhaps being greener on the other side.

No worries there, because both God and the State make it virtually impossible to obey them in all things, so well, if there was a reward for doing that, most people accept that they aren't likely to recieve it.

So what are you giving up your freewill for?

If it entials following another God, or State or even Proto in all things and all ways, then you are giving it up for slavery.

Why do people want to be slaves, and make no mistake about it, many, many people not only want to be, but prefer to be slaves, and the answer is simple, you don't have to be responsible for your own freewill if you don't exercise beyond choosing who to blindly obey.

Now how wonderful you make Jesus out to be or how horrible you make out Caesar to be, a slave is a slave, and slavery is slavery.

We live in a world that basically only presents two choices, with the third choice your own, if it's more than just choosing one of the two offered you, as always being considered basically bad, evil, unwise or evil.

Did the universe really give us freewill to basically play a game of chance with 50/50 odds of simply chosing which to Obey, God or State?

I seriously doubt that.

In a universe as infinite and limitless as ours, could it really be there are only two choices to use our freewill in regards to, obeying the State or obeying God as man defines what God wants and what obeying him should entail?

I doubt that.

Is there a spiritual side of life, a mystic side of life, a magic side of life, a quantum mechanics side of life?

I do believe there actually is, and I believe it provides a lot more choices and paths than just those presumed, imagined, and or accepted as God's, Jesus or Mohameds.

Ultimately freedom, real freedom, is learning how to exercise your freewill all on your own in a way that does no harm to others, that isn't about having a minder or set of rules others make for you to determine how you should negate your freewill.

A proposition that remains to inviting to people looking for absolution and not being responsible for just that basic decision of who to serve.

If you obey the state just to recieve absolution from it, and to not be responsible for the murders and thefts the state carries out, well, you are just fooling yourself, because you still are responsible for them.

Whether it's Jesus or Caesar we still haven't learned what Freewill really is, what it really entails and how to be responsible for it and use it wisely, and it would seem to me, both Jesus and Caesar are conspiring together or seperately to see we never do, whether it's because they presume we are child like and irresponsible and could never wisely use this gift, or whether it's because they know we will no longer be their abject slaves if we use this gift, freewill is a gift, a gift that God of the bible doesn't even claim as being a gift or from him, but a curse, from the Devil, Lucifer, Satan, Beezlebub etc.

How ironic that the one thing given to humanity to free it and empower it, is still the thing that both religion and state don't want you to have and don't want you to learn to fully untilize.

It's called freewill.

Free to a good home, hopefully one day it will find one in each and every one of us.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



Apparently he does need I AM to correctly translate, but only when the plain words have been twisted to mean something else to fit an agenda. If they are read plainly and taken for what they say, then no translation is needed.


You now accuse me of having an agenda? I have no agenda and I twisted no words to mean something else to meet alleged agenda. I simply read the words and processed them in my brain and then put what Interpreted said words meant to me in the context of this thread.

I do not wish to convert anyone to my way of thinking (I am not so arrogant)

Everything means something different to different people and even the smartest people in the world can be proven wrong.

To say that your interpretations of a sentence is 100% correct and mine is 100% wrong is Naive,Arrogant and as a matter of fact Blasphemous since you are in fact stating that you speak for Jesus and only your interpretations of his words are/can be correct.


edit on 7-2-2011 by Adamanteus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Thank you my friend. I didn't even bring up the whole Islamic, Jewish and Christianity thing which is even more baffling. It seems to unify and divide at the same time. Like all of the interpretations that come with each. I believe Islam has sects within it that actually try to kill each other over the correct interpretation of the belief system!

So we have the micro divisions and the macro divisions because we cannot let one unify and get too big and powerful it seems. I just heard on the news that a man stabbed another man in the neck because he was Muslim. He stated that Muslims are the root of the problem and stabbed him in the neck with a pen knife. I wonder if he believes that God will look upon that favorably? It was in Orlando if anyone wants to look it up.

I have been following the thread and taking a break from posting for a while. I love the progression of it and it seems that you have kept it on track for the most part. I look forward to participating more!



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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Proto my dear friend,

I am glad you brought up free will. This is such a misunderstood concept, yet it is what the human soul yearns for. We all want to be free. Christ taught how!!! I will do my best to explain this without using scripture.

First, Christ gave two commandments that if followed, would lead one into heaven. Before we discuss what those commandments are, lets discuss what heaven is.

Heaven is the eventual state of Man where all are free and none want for anything. That is it, plain and simple. This IS Man's destiny. It is what we are forever progressing to. The problem is, that we all have a different idea of what it means to be free. While we all like the idea of being free, the other guy being free isn't so great when it conflicts with what we see as an ideal world. As long as we have this distaste for each other we will NEVER be free. Why?

Because we are all loved by God. He will not choose between us, he cannot choose between us. Why because he is in US all!!! It is our ego that gets in the way and judges each others manifestation of God. We are not the Judge! He is. If he manifests in one, he manifests in all. He is everything and cannot be separated from itself. We have an ego which blinds us from seeing the divine in everything. We judge and rule over one another. We should not do this. If we oppress one, we oppress us all in one way or another. Heaven is free of all of the judgements. It is accepting that all is God and all is to be loved. You must get past the illusions of your ego to see this.

Hence Christs two commandments: Love God with all your being, and your neighbor as yourself.

If you love your neighbor as yourself, you will not judge them. You will help them when they need it. You will heal them when they are sick. You will comfort them in their sorrow. You will feed them when they are hungry. You will pick them up when they fall down. You will teach them to help themselves. You will give them shelter from the weather. You will do all those things you would like done for you if you were in their circumstance.

You will not oppress them. You will not imprison them. You will not fight against them. You will not cause them harm. You will not do anything that you would not want done to you.

Free will is a mutually protected gift of God. It is the right of MAN so long as we protect it together.

If you only look out for yourself, then you will have everyone looking out for themselves. The Rome is needed to maintain order. Thats the price of a dog eat dog world.

If you love each other, you love God by default no matter how another chooses to represent him. Call him Brahma, Budha, YhWh, Jesus, or the spaghetti monster, it does not matter for he is ALL.

Rome exists because we are not willing to be free. We are terrified of the many manifestations of God. We are terrified of each other. We have been decieved by our own selves into thinking we need Rome.

Trust in God, trust in each other, Love one another.

This is the ONLY way to defeat Rome.

I am not telling you these things to oppress you. I tell you these things so that you will be FREE.

I do not want to be YOUR king. I AM a King and I am happy with my own kingdom. I am trying to liberate YOUR Kingdom and make YOU its King.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by Adamanteus
You now accuse me of having an agenda? I have no agenda and I twisted no words to mean something else to meet alleged agenda. I simply read the words and processed them in my brain and then put what Interpreted said words meant to me in the context of this thread.

I do not wish to convert anyone to my way of thinking (I am not so arrogant)


I am sorry if I offended you. I was not talking about you. I was referring to the Roman Catholic Church and the many other bastard incarnations of her.

If the Church had told the truth, You would not have needed to look for an alternative meaning.

You did not have an agenda for you spoke for yourself. The Church speaks for masses.

With Love,

Your Brother
edit on 7-2-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



I will do my best to explain this without using scripture.


Have you published you own concordance yet? Who knows, it may just be the thing that answers all of the questions once and for all. We still haven't figured out who has it right. The Muslims, Christians or the Jews. Or is it another religion?

You cannot say that each one is a way to the same thing because each one explicitly says that it is the only correct text. Seeing as how the three major faiths all came from the same place, who has it right? The world may never know because the other two faiths believe in what they believe in with as much fervor and sincerity of heart as you.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
Have you published you own concordance yet? Who knows, it may just be the thing that answers all of the questions once and for all. We still haven't figured out who has it right. The Muslims, Christians or the Jews. Or is it another religion?

You cannot say that each one is a way to the same thing because each one explicitly says that it is the only correct text. Seeing as how the three major faiths all came from the same place, who has it right? The world may never know because the other two faiths believe in what they believe in with as much fervor and sincerity of heart as you.


They are ALL wrong because they ALL have blood on their hands.

The correct religion is no religion at all.

God speaks to YOU directly. You do not need another MAN to tell you what he says.

Christ tried to tell you, then he tried to show you, then he gave his life as a last lesson. We are ALL Gods Children. We cannot oppress any of us and think we are doing God's will.

He LOVES us all and will NOT decide between us.

We decide between us because we all think we are right. Each of us is right.

Knowing this puts the burden square on our shoulders to take care of each other. There is no more pointing to the serpent and saying "But he said it was ok to do!"

I AM my own concordance. Your heart is Yours.

With Love,

Your Brother



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