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Why Roswell will never be solved: Redfern

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posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by FireMoon
The Ruskkis beat them to it when it came to launching a rocket into space.


The Russians had their own Germans.

Some really good background and detail here.

[edit on 4/14/10 by MrDesolate]




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by john124
reply to post by Gazrok
 



The military, via its own press release, stated it had a recovered disc. That is something right there, in black and white.


Having the public believe in flying saucers in the 50's and 60's helped the military to operate top secret spy planes - U2 and SR-71 Blackbird in secret. Could it have been the same cover story for Mogul to prevent the Soviet's from learning about Mogul, but then retracted in favour of a more down-to-earth cover-up - an ordinary weather balloon. At least this would have provided the flying saucer explanation to use as a cover-up for top-secret military planes later on.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by john124]


That still doesn't explain the numerous witnesses that saw otherworldly debris and bodies. Nothing really explains that other than the ET theory.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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There are numerous problems with the Mogul theory...

1. The timeline only matches if we accept Brazel's recanted date for finding the debris (after he was in military custody for days, and driving around a new truck).

2. Mogul used rather ordinary (and easily identifiable) materials. No Mogul materials would seem "otherworldly". Even the foil paper is more akin to a Hershey wrapper than alien craft... I find it very difficult to believe that the senior intelligence officer would be unable to identify such debris, if it were Mogul.

3. Perhaps the biggest problem is the recovery. We KNOW (as a fact) that the debris was taken to Wright Field's foreign technology specialists. Why would we send something so blatantly ordinary to them? Simple, we wouldn't. No prior or later Mogul recovery was handled in such a way, so no reason to accept this was Mogul.

4. In the Air Force's final report, they felt the need to address the recollections of "bodies". The claim was that people remembered dummies used in High Dive. The problem, this was 5 YEARS after Roswell. The military says folks just mixed it up in their memories... Everyone? Really?

5. During a Poplular Mechanics special, when showing what was claimed by the military to be the actual Mogul debris found, it is certainly not indicative of materials left in the sun for the duration claimed by the military based on the recanted Brazel account. It almost looks pristine, in fact. They didn't even make an attempt to weather it...

6. Many skeptics claim a blue flowered tape was used on the balsa supports of the RAWIN target reflector, and this is what people saw, when reporting the I-beams with hieroglyphics. For starters, balsa wood sticks are a far cry from alien beams, but to date, the skeptics have failed to produce the specific brand, type, etc. of this tape....something that should seemingly be easy to verify.

There are many other problems, but I think you get the jist....



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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How's this thread developed into a warzone? I can't see what's at stake for people here that generates the conflict.


The Redfern Blog seems rational. He isn't ridiculing or dismissing Roswell, that it will never be solved is his opinion. He explains why. The last paragraphs show hope that we get to find out exactly what happened. Comparing it to JFK and Jack the Ripper has merit too. Both of them have generated sustained interest and neither are likely to be 'solved.'

Based on the progress so far, there are way too many conflicting agendas and stories to see what the hell happened there. 50 odd years and the only guys that know aren't talking. It's a fair bet that most of won't ever know for sure if something that wasn't 'ours' crashed.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


If the Nazis had such a technology, they would of USED it. They were fighting three fronts (Russia, England and North Africa) at the time. Any advantage would of helped them as they were using vital resources and manpower at the time.

The disk technology has been tested by the USAF in the 1950s and was found to be highly unstable, like the flying wing. The aviation computers were not available yet to fly such aircraft (they were developed in the 1970s).

Yes, I have done my homework on these cases. I also apply logic to them also. The AF would have revealed the disk was theirs, just not how it flew. Over 60 years have passed and they have not done so. The USAF is one to dismiss most UFO claims as swamp gas, balloons or weather inversion. They would jump at the chance and tell us it was their disk if that was true.

And yes, they can keep a secret very well.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Right and you can say that about anything -- for all we know we all surrounded by extraterrestrial aliens right now! I mean that's what Paul Bennewitz thought -- read Project Beta by Greg Bishop -- of course the military intelligence led him to this conclusion, along with lying to all the UFO conference attenders. And so the great alien myth was firmly propagated by military intelligence.

Still you never know do you? haha.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Well Michael Schratt gives definite answers about the secret military technology at Wright Patterson.

But then I realize watching his video lectures does entail taking in new information which can be hard on the neurons to be sure.

Still may the force be with you my super moderator!



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by Viper2
 


Unless of course you read Nick Redfern's Body Snatchers in the Desert book -- which I highly recommend you do not read because some sort of bubble might be burst.

Yes you can have bodies which look strangely human but yet are not extraterrestial aliens. I know it's a big leap in logic to assume that strange looking humanoids don't come from outer space -- especially considering all we've been told about what aliens are like.

Still it is at least remotely possible that bodies of strange looking human -- "OIDS" -- we're not from outer space.

But that begs the question doesn't it? I mean about judicial prudence and fiduciary responsibility, etc.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Right and you can say that about anything -- for all we know we all surrounded by extraterrestrial aliens right now! I mean that's what Paul Bennewitz thought -- read Project Beta by Greg Bishop -- of course the military intelligence led him to this conclusion, along with lying to all the UFO conference attenders. And so the great alien myth was firmly propagated by military intelligence.

Still you never know do you? haha.


Yeah I know about Benewitz and can grasp the notion of military/political intelligence agendas and all that. On the other hand, the series of **** ups and retractions doesn't really support the idea of a sophisticated machinery manipulating the public. Not in regards to Roswell. It'll stay a mystery and the jury is out...



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by FireMoon
 


O.K. so you quoted Farrell to argue that he is wrong -- and then you say you "forget the name" of a Nazi who was not really a Nazi. Now you say that the Nazi was head of the Wehrmacht...

But WAIT -- the Farrell quote you used to say he lied SAYS THAT GEHLAN was head of Wehrmacht.

So either you're not reading the very quote you claim to find incorrect.... or you're going back to rely on it?



General Reinhard Gehlen’s Fremde Heere Ost, or “Foreign Armies East”, the Wehrmacht’s military intelligence on the Eastern front, inside of the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. The truth is and i apologise because, right now, the guy's name escapes me is that. The guy the American's turned to, it is now known had lied to Hitler over several major military issues.


www.washingtonpost.com...



Naftali also writes that the documents contain evidence of the extensive employment of ex-SS officers by the Gehlen Organization, a CIA-subsidized German intelligence group set up by Reinhard Gehlen, the Wehrmacht's former intelligence chief on the Eastern Front in World War II.





No I'm referring to the head of Wehrmacht intelligence who was the guy who set up the CIA and who , in the final analysis, was a traitor to the Third Reich. I've got a mental block past the name Adenhauer and it wans't him.


O.K. so let's see if this is true -- was Gehlen really a "traitor" to the Third Reich -- did he "lie to Hitler" over "several major military issues."

Those two are not mutually exclusive -- Gehlen could have lied to Hitler without being a traitor... but still. I can find nothing on Gehlen lying to Hitler or being a traitor to the Nazis....

www.buddhistpeacegroup.org...

www.gwu.edu...



The documentation unearthed by the IWG reveals extensive relationships between former Nazi war criminals and American intelligence organizations, including the CIA. For example, current records show that at least five associates of the notorious Nazi Adolf Eichmann worked for the CIA, 23 other Nazis were approached by the CIA for recruitment, and at least 100 officers within the Gehlen organization were former SD or Gestapo officers. (Note 2)


Maybe you're referring to this intention by Gehlen:

www.riflewarrior.com...



Now it was only a question of saving the files and making the proper contacts on the American side. Gehlen was confident a suitable arrangement could be made for not only himself, but his organization. Gehlen had been planning this move for months. He noted in his memoirs that, "Early in 1944 I told my more intimate colleagues that I considered the war lost and we must begin thinking of the future...and plan for the approaching catastrophe."





At the same time, Gehlen's existence in Allied hands quite coincidentally became known to General "Wild Bill" Donovan, head of the OSS, and his station chief in Europe, Allen Dulles. In August, Gehlen and three assistants were covertly flown to Washington and secreted away at Camp David for interviews with both Military Intelligence and the OSS. Apparently the OSS offered the best deal, for within a eighteen months the Gehlen Org, resurrected from the original Nazi spy network, had been installed in West Germany to act as the eyes and ears of the newly-created CIA.


www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

The paperclip scientists, again 1200, were fervent Nazis, many of them in Gestapo, overseeing slave labor in concentration camps -- and from these Nazi scientists the CIA developed MKUltra and secret propulsion technology.

www.rumormillnews.com...



"Gehlen was quickly spirited off to Fort Hunt, Va. The image he projected during 10 months of negotiations at Fort Hunt was, to use a bit of espionage parlance, a "legend" --one that hinged on Gehlen's false claim that he was never really a Nazi, but was dedicated, above all, to fighting Communism. Those who bit the bait included future CIA director Allen Dulles, who became Gehlen's biggest supporter among American policy wonks. " (From the text below)





Moreover, Gehlen had not been some cloistered spy. His job had not been simply to coordinate the gathering of information. He had been a key leader of the work of fascist groups in the occupied East, such as the Iron Guard in Romania, the Latvian Vanagis and the Croatian Ustashe. These groups committed the most unimaginably brutal atrocities against 'Untermenschen', Jews, 'gypsies', Serbs and other Slavs and Orthodox Christians, as well as against anti-Nazis, both Communist and non-Communist, including various Nationalist groups, which resisted the Nazis. Gehlen was a leading war criminal.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
50 odd years and the only guys that know aren't talking.


Col. Jesse Marcel Jr. still talks about it, he wrote a new book about it.


Roswell: It Really Happened.




Marcel’s book tells of his involvement in what really happened in July of 1947 when he examined the debris of a crashed interstellar ship. As one of the last survivors, and the only individual that has been acknowledged by our government to have examined and analyzed this debris, Marcel feels it’s necessary that his knowledge of the event never be lost.

In the introduction, Marcel previews Roswell It Really Happened in one paragraph, as follows: "As time goes on, there are fewer and fewer of us first-hand witnesses still alive. The Roswell event happened over 58 years ago, which is hard for me to believe, but the calendar does not lie. With this account, I have written about the Roswell incident from a very personal viewpoint. This is written as seen through my eyes and what influence this has had on the way I have lived my life, looking at it through a Roswell prism. I have never altered my story. The symbols, debris and so forth have never changed, but the government’s cover-up seems to change with the seasons. I am merely standing in for my father when it comes to my depictions and memories of Roswell.


www.ufocongressstore.com...



[edit on 15/4/10 by spacevisitor]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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HI OP,

Frankly, I'm sick of Roswell July 8, 1947 traces of UFO stuff.

Seen it all, read it all. Time to bury it. It started it all..now we're so far beyond it that I suggest let Roswell die.

All due respect to Jesse Marcel, Glenn Dennis and especially toward and William "Mac" Brazel , who went through hell with the then AFOSI.

Don't you'll think it's time to move on..

Decoy



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Yeah I guess Fred Crisman was literally a "****-up" even though he was spreading UFO lies -- to Kenneth Arnold --

oh wait that was BEFORE Roswell.

What was I thinking?

But then Fred Crisman did work for the CIA so maybe....

Nah couldn't be he was working for some higher up who wanted to spread UFO disinformation even before Roswell happened.

Well I guess Kenn Thomas did write a book on it which he is updating right now so maybe there is something to this....

www.ufosnw.com...

theunexplainedmysteries.com...



Dahl reported these events to Fred Crisman, a man he believed to have some connections in the intelligence community. Crisman subsequently went to Maury Island to investigate the incident. He found a great deal of both materials on the shore and recovered some for himself. Soon thereafter, Crisman shared his experience with Ray Palmer, a magazine publisher, who then hired Kenneth Arnold (the original pilot) to investigate further. Three days later, Arnold had more sightings, culminating with a woman recovering some unusual material in the same vicinity, who then turned the material over to FBI agent Guy Banister. Capt. Lee Davidson and Lt. Frank Brown, Air Force investigators under the command of Gen. Nathan Twining, soon joined Arnold in retrieving debris on Maury Island. Ultimately, Crisman was compelled to turn over his samples to the two Air Force investigators. Classified documents, recently discovered under the freedom of information act, also indicate that Crisman turned additional samples he had held back over to CIA agent Clay Shaw.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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I believe that if anything more substantial than balloons and radar targets had crashed on Foster Ranch, there should be something left at the crash site today.

Gazrok writes that, "If a top secret (and unannounced) stealth jet crashed on a farm today, you can bet they'd gather up ever nut and bolt..."

We can test that theory. This sort of event that has, in fact, occurred numerous of times. Unacknowledged "black" projects vehicles from Area 51 and Tonopah Test Range, for example, have crashed on public land in close proximity to populated areas.

There is nothing more secret than unacknowledged special access programs (SAPs). Only personnel with a need-to-know are briefed in. Many advanced technology aircraft projects have been developed as unacknowledged SAPs and tested at remote locations such as Area 51. In UFOlogy, conventional wisdom dictates that the crash of an extraterrestrial craft would be treated similarly to an unacknowledged SAP. additionally, there is no more unambiguous directive than, "Clean up every trace." That order has been given for many SAP crash-retrievals, and presumably would also apply to a UFO crash.

Why is this important? Simply put, we can study historical government crash retrievals of stealth aircraft and spy planes and compare them to UFO crash retrieval stories. Let's start with the basics.

I have noticed that many UFO crash retrieval stories have a lot of elements in common:

1. The vehicle/object crashed on public or private land in relatively close proximity to a population center (city, town or rural community).

2. Civilian witnesses either saw the object crash or came across wreckage at the impact site.

3. Government/military personnel secured the crash site and kept unauthorized personnel away for as long as necessary to retrieve the debris.

4. Civilian witnesses were warned not to speak of what they saw. Unauthorized photos/film were confiscated.

5. Because of the Top Secret nature of the debris, recovery crews were ordered to give clean-up top priority.

Crash events involving SAP vehicles from Area 51 and other classified facilities share these characteristics in every detail. Let's look at a few of the best examples.

Project OXCART involved developmental testing of the Lockheed A-12 reconnaissance aircraft. Capable of Mach 3 cruise at 90,000 feet, it was a cutting edge design, funded by the Central Intelligence Agency and tested at Area 51. The first flight took place in 1962, but the A-12 was not declassified until 1981. Two Air Force variants, the YF-12A interceptor and SR-71 recon plane were publicly surfaced in 1964, in part to serve as a cover for sightings of the A-12 as it would inevitably be seen during testing or deployment.

The first A-12 crash occurred near Wendover, Utah, in May 1963 (a year prior to public unveiling of the YF-12A). It was a true "black" project, and the CIA initiated a cover story that an Air Force F-105 fighter had crashed. The government went to great lengths to control access to the crash site. According to the now declassified Accident Investigation Report, clean-up was top priority. There report included a memorandum claiming that "all traces of [the aircraft] had been removed from the crash scene." I have even met people who took part in the cleanup operation and swear that they removed every piece and checked with metal detectors to make sure before they departed the area.

Today, however, a visit to the crash site reveals that thousands of pieces of debris remain. The impact crater still resembles the imprint of the airplane's aft fuselage and engine nacelles with two gouges from the twin tail fins (it struck the ground inverted) It is surrounded by titanium and composite pieces from the airplane’s wings and chines. Other debris includes turbine blades and other engine components (identifiable with an Illustrated Parts Book for the J75 engines used in the early A-12), pieces of titanium structure and skin, and material from the cockpit (identifiable through photos and the A-12 pilot's handbook. many pieces have A-12 part numbers and Lockheed “Skunk Works” inspection stamps (identifiable through museum examples and declassified documents). There are also other recognizable components specific to the A-12.

During the 1960s Lockheed also developed a Top Secret unmanned reconnaissance aircraft called the D-21. Designed to fly at mach 3 speeds and altitudes as high as 90,000 feet, it was a stealthy, ramjet-powered craft. Originally lauched from an A-12 derivative, a fatal accident led to a modified version called the D-21B that was launched from a B-52. Because the drone needed to be traveling at Mach 3 speeds in order to ignite the ramjet, a rocket booster (called the DZ-1) was attached to the D-21B.

On 28 September 1967, two D-21B drones with DZ-1 boosters were carried aloft from Area 51 beneath the wings of a B-52 on what was supposed to be a captive-carry flight. Due to a technical malfunction, however, one of the drones inadvertently separated from the launch pylon. The rocket fired and carried the drone for some distance before it crashed in a rural area of central Nevada.

According to interviews with participants and witnesses, personnel from Area 51 secured the crash site as quickly as possible and retrieved film from a civilian witness who took some pictures before the recovery crew arrived at the scene. The D-21B project officer told me that the clean-up crew walked shoulder-to-shoulder through the debris field, picking up every piece. "The site was clean as a hound's tooth when they finished," he said. A local rancher whom was present said, "The government people were very concerned about every piece of wreckage." Another rancher said the recovery crew "spent days policing the area, picking up every piece. There is nothing left to indicate it ever happened."

Again, a visit to the crash site shows this to be an exaggeration. Debris remaining at the site in 2005 included small pieces of titanium, steel, aluminum and plastic, electronic components, and pieces with D-21 part numbers and Lockheed Skunk Works inspection stamps. The largest remaining piece was the entire nose cone from the rocket booster (identifiable through declassified photos and documents).

The F-117A, popularly known as the "Stealth Fighter," was the first combat aircraft designed to be virtually invisible to hostile air defenses. Designers used sophisticated techniques involving radar-absorbent materials, special avionics, and the aircraft’s shape to make it “low observable” or “stealthy” to radar and infrared sensors. Developed as a clandestine “black” program in the late 1970s, tested at Area 51 in the early 1980s, and deployed to operational units at nearby Tonopah Test Range (TTR), the existence of the F-117A was a closely guarded secret for nearly a decade.

On 11 July 1986, Maj. Ross Mulhare crashed his F-117A in the mountains 15 miles northeast of Bakersfield, California. The crash site was declared a National Defense Area to prevent entry by unauthorized personnel. Civilian overflights were restricted within a 5-mile radius. Armed guards manned roadblocks at perimeter checkpoints. Local and federal officials involved in firefighting, crash investigation, and other activities surrounding the incident were ordered by the Air Force not to discuss what they had seen or heard. The clean-up operation took several weeks.

As soon as the area was reopened to the public, news media and hikers began searching for debris. They found pieces of aluminum, titanium, and composite materials, as well as engine components and cockpit items. Pictures of some of these items were published and shown on television news programs.

If pieces of documented "black" project crashes can be found, then it should be no problem to find debris from a "flying saucer," whatever its origin.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
He detailed a number of issues surrounding the Roswell story which suggest that the downed craft was of terrestrial, but non-American, origin. For instance, Farrell noted that witnesses, who saw the Roswell debris, observed numbers on the wreckage. This, he surmised, suggests an Earthly origin since it is highly unlikely that ETs would be using our symbols for there numeric system.


It has been alleged that the symbols depicted within the crashed saucer were ancient greek and aliens were pleadians from the future warning us against a pending future disaster.

Don't ask me for sources because it will take me hours to find what I am looking for, but if your interested in this hypothesis I am sure you can find something.



On the subject of the beings allegedly recovered from the crash, he asserted that, based on the vast majority of the accounts, there is "nothing that compels to the fact that these were extraterrestrial beings. We simply have very odd looking humans." Apparently, this idea was shared by the Army personnel who arrived at the scene, since Farrell said that one witness claims that the recovery team attempted to speak Japanese and German to the crash victims.


It has been alleged that aliens can speak many earthly languages.



Taking these aspects of the event into account, Farrell advanced his alternative theory that the downed craft at Roswell was really a version of the erstwhile Nazi project known as The Bell. According to his research, work on the Bell can be traced from Germany to Argentina following World War II. To that end, he revealed that immediately following the Roswell crash, the US Army re-opened the security classification files of the former Nazis that were brought to America via Project Paperclip. Additionally, he cited the testimony of Col. Philip Corso, who Farrell contends, "hints, repeatedly throughout his book, that there is some apparent Nazi 'look' to the technology that they had recovered." Ultimately, Farrell theorized that the displaced Nazis were "sending a message to their former enemy that 'we have a technology that you cannot touch.'"


The ET phenomena can be traced back to ancient egypt so it would not suprise me if the nazis had reverse-engineered ufos or gotten the technology from someone else. When america and the alies won ww2, a lot of german scientists went to the usa and brought whatever knowledge they had with them.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by EarthCitizen07]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


Do you have any photos or links for these crash sites? I'm not doubting you, it's concievable that small debris could remain, and I would like to look into it further. Yet I'm interested to see how an entire nose cone could be accidentaly left behind, yet still be found at the crash site many years later. Was it a considerable distance from the actual crash site, or had people just walked straight past it. Perhaps, buried underground?



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

Ha! I SAW a big black triangle craft UP CLOSE -- yes this technology is still classified!


Ok, so your contention is that we've had these black triangles (or the tech that enables them) for over 50 years (and of our own, terrestrial design), but STILL haven't made them a major part of our defense, or expanded the tech to the private sector?

Now who's making a leap of faith....


My point is that there is NO technology of our own make, from 1947, that would STILL be classified...it'd be way past obsolete...so whatever was recovered, is still worthy of classification and coverup, and not something we came up with....

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Gazrok]


I don't wish to derail the thread but some people claim the american government has its own flying saucer fleet stationed at area 51 and other top secret bases throughout the world.

Of course this techonology would be classified at the highest levels, way above nuclear stuff. Robert Lazar who worked at S4 at the nevada test site said his MAJIC clearance was 44 levels above Q-clearance used to denote nuclear tech.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


No i said he was head of Wehrmacht military intelligence, not just part of it. Believe it or not when you read umpteen books on the subject there are times when the info become a bit of a blur.

Look I'm sorry but i'm not really into debating historical facts garnered from books written by military historians against a bunch of made up speculation from sites with not that great a grasp on reality.

Unlike these sites, I don't have an agenda. I personally, find what the Yanks and the my own Government did, morally reprehensible. Then again so was the CIA infiltrating the Italian Red Army and selecting the targets for assassination based on, people they wanted removed who "Knew too much", about the CIA's links to ultra right groups throughout the world funded, clandestinely, by the Vatican bank.

However, i do think it's time people took the biased spectacles off when it comes to talking about the Nazis. They weren't that far ahead of the Allies in many fields of research. The Allies made a conscious decision that was a game of brinkmanship. They stuck many programmes on the back burner in order to concentrate on producing standard weaponry by the 1000 , in order to swamp the Axis powers with sheer numbers. So of course, having won, they went straight for the German jet aircraft specialists to catch up on the 3-4 years research they'd dropped behind.

The biggest single factor, if there is one, in the Allies winning the war was the British facility at Bletchely Park. They invented Pulse Code Modulation there and the worlds first operational modern computer, with which they cracked the German enigma codes. What's more the Germans hadn't a clue we'd done it. But ,both the Allies and the Germans were hamstrung by the same technological barrier. It was all based on valves and capacitors. They were , by their sheer bulk a huge and unsurmountable , at the time, obstacle to progress , in the real world.

At the time of Roswell this was still very much the case. You could have all the wonderful ideas and theories in the universe, but to bring them to any sort of practical solution meant stupidly large apparatus that was, useless, in any real practical terms.

The fact is Britain was a decade ahead of every other country in the world, when it came to the basic building blocks of what our modern world is now. That is, addressing the practicalities of miniaturisation. As I've pointed out in another thread, Alec Reeves, was the man. The man who, virtually (sic) invented the modern world as we know it. Show me one of these sites where his name is even mentioned, let alone him given the credit he is due?

I suspect that, many of these sites and writers, can;t handle the idea of *aliens* so they have chosen to imbue these Nazi scientists, with the same fabled abilities the believers ascribe to the Aliens. Of course, it's far easier to convince people it was, the Nazis, than it is to convince people it's the Aliens. However, these people indulge in the very same groundless speculation, to prove their point, as the Alien believers.

The bottom line is simple. Without transistors none of these concepts were ever going to be practical, transportable solutions. That's why. post world war 2 there was a brief period where little really changed. Because the likes of Reeves had the foresight to see that, miniaturisation was an absolute must, or technology would simply stagnate.

As I have said elsewhere. Whilst, i don't believe Corso in his detail. What i do think might have happened was this. Something crashed at Roswell that wasn't ours. The biggest effect it had on our technology was this. The American military knew for certain that minatturisation was , indeed possible and practical from the wreckage they collected. It didn't matter a flying fig whether they knew how to back engineer the Roswell craft. They knew minaturisation wasn't just science fiction. So, when someone came to the American government saying they wanted money for research into transistors. They didn't have to say, oh yes we found some similar at Roswell, they just said yes to the funding. They told all the great research establishments, that miniaturisation was key to progress to put their efforts into it without saying a word about Roswell.

You know, i have a sneaking suspicion that. If Roswell wasn't one of ours that the true reason for the cover up is far more mundane than might be first thought. I reckon, in their attempts to work out the craft's various systems they totally we wrecked it beyond being able to ever assemble it back into any shape or form, that might make it look believable. As such i think it could easily be they are just too embarrassed to admit, !"We broke it, we broke it so bad there's nothing really left".

So whilst i believe the Nazis were up to all sorts of stuff, they suffered from the same problem as everyone in this world did. They couldn't produce anything, on a practical level, that could be built and used in any great numbers. So yes, they managed to *levitate" a sphere above their facility. Only problem is, they needed a huge power supply and a massive fixed facility to do it. In other words, outside of the wow factor, it was of no use whatsoever and by 1947 and Roswell, that was still the case. In exactly the same way Alec reeves invented Pulse Code Modulation, but save, for the secure line between Roosevelt and Churchill, nothing more was really managed, practically, until the invention of the transistor, over decade in the future.

Just maybe, if the people who pen these sites actually sat and down and really thought about it, rather than just jumping on the , me too, bandwagon, they might see the huge hole in their logic.

When i see Ferrell state World War 1, wasn't about conquest. I know the bloke obviously doesn't even have the basic grounding in political history a 13 year old kid over here does. That the guy hasn't even heard of the Kaiser's, "Place in the sun", doctrine speaks volumes.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by FireMoon]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Right so the CIA admitted to having relied on a top Nazi war criminal in order to launch their Cold War -- in....

2000!!

Not 1948, not the 1980s, not...

And that's just Gehlen -- sure much of the CIA Nazi material has been declassified -- or has it?

There's MORE classified material than there's material in the library of congress....

So as long as the extraterrestrial myth is favorable to cover up advanced technology then there's a good reason to keep whatever secret military technology was used at Roswell secret.

It's not like the CIA wants to come out and admit they torture people and are filled with former Nazis who by chance work on secret propulsion technology.

It's all together -- so to retroactively show the technology of Roswell would mean pulling apart the whole extraterrestrial mythos which still works as a cover story.

Reagan used it -- it's called the Stargate Conspiracy!

Prince and Picknett have an excellent book on it. I already linked Philip Coppen's research on the stargate conspiracy....

www.picknettprince.com...



Are the ancient gods - or perhaps superior life-forms from space - really returning? Have they already made contact through chosen mediums, channellers and leaders of cults? Or is that what certain cynical manipulators want us to believe? In a bizarre and murky world where reality and belief are compelled to collide by those coldly orchestrating the plan, miracles apparently occur and the promised revelation of secrets is endless.




[edit on 14-4-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 14-4-2010 by drew hempel]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Right and you can say that about anything -- for all we know we all surrounded by extraterrestrial aliens right now! I mean that's what Paul Bennewitz thought -- read Project Beta by Greg Bishop -- of course the military intelligence led him to this conclusion, along with lying to all the UFO conference attenders. And so the great alien myth was firmly propagated by military intelligence.

Still you never know do you? haha.


Yeah we are surrounded by aliens but I wouldn't worry much about them because we have ultra-terrestrial "aliens" living under your feet. Maybe 10 miles straight down if you dig with an oil rig. You know "hell on earth" theory included within the *hollow earth theory*.


Actually its nothing to laugh about because sooner or later they will take over earth unless stopped. No they are not martians! They are not the greys either, as the greys are done probing humans and are now mining for natural magnets within the earth's crust. I am talking about the reptillians from alpha draconia who have resided here for millenia, if not eons.

Allegedly they are operating the dulce base with the cia/nsa(ex-german nazis) and the greys for the covert take-over. Phil Schneider, John Lear, Robert Lazar, Thomas Castello, Jason Bishop, Branton and others have corraborated that this base exists and is up to no good. Seven levels deep!

Earth belongs to satan/lucifer/devil, who are in cahoots with the illuminatti, who run the banks, who bribe politicians, who sink countries. It is a huge conspiracy. Trust no one and pray to god for salvation, for if the rapture is true and 12-21-2012 is the date, we will need much help!

Can you handle the truth?




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