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Why Roswell will never be solved: Redfern

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posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 07:30 AM

Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by FireMoon

[edit on 18-4-2010 by drew hempel]

And what you neglect to show is the big copyright notice under that report taken out by the author of the book claiming the Nazis made UFOs.

So let me get this right. In 1941 the Nazis could send craft half way round the world and back without refueling but they never bombed the Russian factories when they were moved east of the Urals?

If they had been as advanced as you think they were. They'd have walked the battle of Britain, it wouldn't haver even been a contest. Now remind me who won?

The parts about Germanium etc etc.. Every chuffin lab in the world was looking into that sort of thing form the 1920s onwards. No-one actually got it right till AFTER the war.

posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 11:06 AM
reply to post by FireMoon

The claim of Nazis flying half way around the world in 1941 is made where? If you want to set up a straw man argument -- i.e. a false claim -- you need to at least give the source for who is making this claim. Provide a quote and then an investigation can occur. Otherwise I have to track down your claims which you are saying other people claim but are actually false claims. That's, again, called a "straw-man argument" -- you set up your own false claim and then you knock down what is your own fabrication. So provide some substantiation -- a quote -- a source, etc. Otherwise there's nothing to discuss!

I'm assuming you're referring to this claim?

Later, in 1934 the second saucer, RFZ 2, was ready with a new control system. It was 5m in diameter, emitted a coloured light, and the contour became hazy when it flew. It could fly. In the years until 1940 prototypes were further developed. It had long distance capabilities, and did a flight to South America in 1941. It lacked the manoeuvrability of the ME109, and it was unarmed. It wasn't built in quantity. 1942 saw the lightly armed Vril-1-Jaeger flying. It was 11.5m in diameter, was one seated, could reach supersonic speeds, could do 90 degree turns at full speed, and could leave the atmosphere. 17 copies were built of this model.

This is news to me. Yeah these earlier "magnetic motor" prototype stories are definitely hard to swallow but it's possible based on Tesla principles:

Henry Stevens says he has some corroboration of Dr. W.O. Schumann's work with Tesla technology -- which was supposedly the earliest "counter rotating magnet" propulsion designs -- but Stevens says he can not confirm this information: ZdMjIq2IJ90vFqTm1ng&hl=en&ei=vjTLS5fSJY_y9ASX-Pi4BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Austrian Schapeller seems to have developed the ideas further during the next 10 years.

Stevens does focus on Schapeller though -- although gives a slightly later date for prototypes -- saying that the work did begin in 1941.... KMJ072pNDwaCy1wimkk&hl=en&ei=vjTLS5fSJY_y9ASX-Pi4BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


[edit on 18-4-2010 by drew hempel]

posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 12:53 PM
Well, Nick Redfern has the effect right, I think anyone of average intelligence truly could've thought of what he said.
In this mystery you shouldn't just assume that it is unsolvable because someone sounded like they knew what they were talking about. You should question it further and make up your own mind up about it once you, and only you, think you have sufficient knowledge of what happened.

But now you know the effect of why this mystery is "unsolvable", not enough evidence, but you might not know the cause.
The cause is this: The government officials who found the UFO denied that it was a UFO. They decieved the public. They claimed that it was a weather balloon when it really wasn't, they lied to you and me.

P.S. The bodies were destroyed around the time of impact.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Keliko favlaka]

posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 01:48 PM
reply to post by drew hempel

No Drew you are making the false claims. If UFOs are Nazi technology, then by default, all UFOs must be their technology. Given Gordon Creighton reports seeing a classic UFO over China in 1941, by your own argument it must have been a Nazi craft. Which is my whole point the people you are talking about cherry pick that which fits their claims and just choose to ignore the rest. It's called being intellectually dishonest. Me, i just call them what they are bunko artists and hoaxers.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by FireMoon]

posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 05:58 PM
reply to post by FireMoon

"a classic ufo" -- HA! Like I said -- I saw a "ufo" - a big black equilateral triangle -- flying right over the tree in our yard and then our garage!

I can assure you it was MILITARY -- and Michael Schratt discusses this UFO as well -- the astra or TR-3B.

And guess what? It uses electrogravitic propulsion since there's a mercury plasma which has anti-gravity.

So this technology is still secret -- the Nazis did develop it -- but Tesla conceptualized it, as did T.T. Brown, Schauberger and others.

The U.S. military gets $60 billion a year in black operations funding. So there's an amazing realm of technology kept from the public.

It's kind of like "planned obsolescence" in the "capitalist" market as you claim the U.S. is capitalist. Instead it's "planned obfuscation" -- why? Because as Michael Schratt states if this technology was made public and was subsidized into private industry -- like so much of former military technology (i.e. the internet, etc.) -- then there would be great loss of profits for the big industries. There's only half a dozen large industries controlling each sector of the economy -- so it's not a free market -- it's PLANNED -- obfuscation! Price-fixing, massive state subsidies, and regulations to maintain secrecy, etc.

Welcome to the Free World!

Are all UFOs Nazi? Nope -- that's just silly bad logic -- of course "some" UFOs are not man-made.... what are they? Ever seen spirits -- ghosts? I trained with a Chinese qigong master and so I've seen dead spirits! Many speculate that UFO experiences are "interactive" -- i.e. Richard Haines, among others. The scene proscribes to this interactive view as does

So I'd get into the specifics but the main concept is holography -- whereby based on quantum logic there is no "you" separate and objective from "others" (i.e. UFOs, Nazis, extraterrestrials, etc.) In other words we exist WITHIN a larger holographic consciousness -- we are holographs!

posted on Apr, 18 2010 @ 06:37 PM

Henry Stevens radio interview on Nazi UFOs.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 12:01 AM
reply to post by drew hempel

Dear drew hempel

So as I see it there is no record of Foo Fighters attacking allied aircraft. As I said certainly none that I have found.

Ok so there is a big big secret perhaps starting with paperclip in 1945 however Wernher von Braun was being employed by NASA by 1957.

I listened to the radio show by Henry Stevens, one question about that would be why they give the job of interviewing him to such a dumb woman. However this man has obviously done a lot of research and according to him all the rest of us should just give up and leave it to the Germans. As they are the creators of everything including the transistor Hum.

Ok so let say you are right and it was a Nazis UFO that crashed at Roswell.

If it were the product of paperclip (which I very much Doubt) why the secret now, people have know about this for a very long time??

If it came from Nazis in South America (which is just beyond belief to me) as there are no efforts to stop them in history.

I keep hearing disinformation from the CIA etc, as a reason for just about everything. My really big question would be about what??

Disinformation about the Nazis being behind all this stuff that lots see flying around the sky’s??

Disinformation about the ET’s flying around the sky’s??

Disinformation about the military complex flying around the sky’s??

Actually this should be a thread on its own.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 12:25 AM
reply to post by MAC269

These were psychological test weapons to gauge the Allied bomber crews response to the strange machines that defied explanation and which could out-maneuver the Allied aircraft at will. If they were destroyed it was no loss, yet most of them were brought back down to earth for retrieval and re-use.

The first documented attack of the "Foo Fighters" came on November 23, 1944. A Bristol Beaufighter of the 415th NFS based in Dijon 20 miles from Strasbourg was attacked by ten reddish spheres of small diameter- most likely AEG Kugelwaffen aerial probes. The aircraft's radar ceased to function.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 01:16 AM
reply to post by drew hempel

Dear drew hempel

So From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Dresden after the bombing raid
The Bombing of Dresden was a military bombing by the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and the United States Army Air Force (USAAF) as part of the allied forces between 13 February and 15 February 1945 in the Second World War. In four raids, 1,300 heavy bombers dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city, the Baroque capital of the German state of Saxony. The resulting firestorm destroyed 39 square kilometres (15 sq mi) of the city centre.[1]
So just prior to the bombing of Dresden the Germans were sending up charismas tree lights. Even according to the second of your reports the allied command had no idea what these were about.
It would seam that what ever they were they where totally ineffective against the allied attacks of that time. This is despite the fact that they could totally out maneuver all allied aircraft of that period. As you have repeatedly pointed out these Germans were not stupid. They took over all of Europe in a few months. So messing about with such an ineffective weapon is to put it mildly unlikely.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 01:38 AM
reply to post by MAC269

As Michael Schratt pointed out there was a push for new types of propulsion because their oil was destroyed, etc. As Joseph P. Farrell states it was "too little too late."

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 02:10 AM
reply to post by drew hempel

Dear drew hempel

From Roswell Reveled

“In 1979 a former military intelligence officer at the Roswell Army Air Field, in defiance of security regulations, told UFO investigators that the wreckage collected near Roswell in 1947 was not that of a weather balloon and that the fragments he had seen and handled exhibited unusual properties, in terms of hardness and strength, that were not possessed by terrestrial materials. In the years that followed this revelation, researchers interviewed dozens of individuals who had firsthand or secondhand knowledge about the Roswell Incident. Their testimony, which appeared in a number of books and articles during the period 1980--1994, confirmed the crash of an alien spaceship and the recovery of alien bodies”

I certainly get you point and there is little doubt that the Nazis where up to a lot during the years of that war. This is why FDR new that his country had to be part of it.

However the original story of Roswell as seen above dose not seam to fit your theory.

In all that I have ever read about Roswell I have never heard any mention of strange propulsion systems. In fact the only thing that seams to be the same is the disc. In your theory there is no mention of strange metals.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 02:14 AM
reply to post by MAC269

The reason the exotic materials were considered extraterrestrial is because they contained isotopes not found in Nature on Earth. These type of isotopes are artificially created in research labs -- the Buckyfullerene is an excellent example -- it is found in outer space and not on Earth but is now synthesized for industrial production.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 02:35 AM
reply to post by drew hempel

Dear drew hempel

Even back in 1947 we had many alloys not found naturally on earth.

However nickel titanium alloys which believe is a memory metal was not thought to being worked on till about 1949 or so. However even this research seams to be linked to Roswell. But not to Nazis.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 03:27 AM
I don't think the description of the alien bodies is much of a human thought... Do you think if there was a cover up that we would use cave paintings and such like the Nazca lines to create "fake aliens"? Because honestly that is what this whole thing is implying. The description of the Roswell aliens.

I think the overall description of Grey Aliens seems pretty alien, it doesn't match any fairy tales, or make believe creatures from Earth.

I think these Grey Aliens are real. I think there are more diligent aliens, the Greys seem likely to crash on Earth and make a deal with the US Government.

Because really if you think for a second with all the life on our planet, do you really expect 57 more aliens or whatever WTF more?? 1 alien seems most likely to me to invade our planet.

Its not so much an invasion of science fiction standards, but an alien invasion.

Thats what I think is going on. The Roswell Aliens crashed on purpose... (Ultra covert)

I think it is well proven that Roswell is in fact an alien cover up, so lets focus on the implications of that.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 04:04 AM
Sorry to double post. All I'm saying is that 1940's US military sure came up with an excellent multi-billion dollar marketing logo with the Grey Alien. I say sorry, no one could of came up with that back then to know how profitable it would be in the future. Can you think what if they picked the wrong description of an alien? Some three-headed monster? Hahaha! Thats why I think the Roswell case is an alien cover up.

There is nothing like a Grey Alien on Earth, and people sure have a damn hard time coming up with their own fictional alien. I *DOUBT* the US military in 1947..give me a break, could come up with Grey Aliens. Like technology was not as advanced, neither was language, art, and imagination in 1947.

If you had copyrighted the Grey Alien, you would be richer than Warner Bros and Walt Disney? Wouldn't you? Everyone has used the Grey Alien...I highly doubt someone in the 40's, let alone, someone in the US military, to craft, such an aesthetically pleasing eye catcher such as the Grey Alien is, no way, no how.

You can talk about the greatest discovery of Man Kind, you can also talk about the greatest marketing logo EVER.

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 01:40 PM
reply to post by game over man

Strange I don't see Roswell in the origin of the "greys" -- it skips from earlier 20th C. sci-fi to Betty and Barney Hill abduction in 1965.... It says the greys didn't get mentioned with Roswell until 1980....

The British science fiction writer H.G. Wells, in the article "Man of the Year Million" in 1893, describes humanity transformed into a race of gray-skinned beings, stunted and with big heads. In his book "The First Men in the Moon" in 1901, Selenites, or natives of the Moon, are described as having gray skin, big heads, large black eyes and wasp stings. In 1933, the Swedish novelist Gustav Sandgren, using the pen name Gabriel Linde, published a science fiction novel called Den okända faran (The Unknown Danger), where he describes a race of extraterrestrials: "[...] the creatures did not resemble any race of humans. They were short, shorter than the average Japanese, and their heads were big and bald, with strong, square foreheads, and very small noses and mouths, and weak chins. What was most extraordinary about them were the eyes – large, dark, gleaming, with a sharp gaze. They wore clothes made of soft grey fabric, and their limbs seemed to be similar to those of humans." The novel was aimed at young readers, and it included illustrations of the aliens. In 1965, newspaper reports of the Betty and Barney Hill abduction brought Greys to international attention. The alleged abductees, Betty and Barney Hill, claimed to have been abducted by alien beings and taken to a saucer-shaped spaceship in 1961. The term "Greys" did not come into usage until many years later, but the alleged beings described by Betty and Barney Hill generally fit many of the common traits of what we now call Greys.

My take on the Greys is that they're literally a subconscious projection of the human cerebellum consciousness -- the reptilian brain. This is also the position of psychologist Stan Gooch.

[edit on 19-4-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 19-4-2010 by drew hempel]

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 02:17 PM
reply to post by MAC269

Nickel titanium alloy is not that exotic. Memory shape alloys were first discovered in 1932. The Nazis were using nickel titanium alloys only those materials were in short supply:

While the first shape memory alloy was discovered in 1932, it wasn’t until the early 1960’s that the nickel-titanium SMA’s were first discovered by Buehler. He was working at the Naval Ordinance Laboratory at the time, hence the name Nitinol. His discovery formed the basis of the first commercial shape memory alloy.

Unfortunately for the engine, Germany was in desperate straits for such materials as chromium, molybdenum, nickel, titanium, and tungsten. The new advanced submarine construction program had a higher priority than jet engines. The production engine was therefore built with only about one-third of the vital high-grade steel. The primitive turbine blade design, rigidly mounted, imposed such stress that the inferior metal used in the compressor blades failed often and early. Nickel was the most critical element, chromium was less critical. The tiniudur alloy used, in increasing order: titanium 6%, Nickel 30%, Chromium 12% balance Iron.

Those who claim that nickel titanium alloys came from Roswell (and hence are extraterrestrial alien are WRONG) -- again shape memory alloys go back to 1932.

It appears that the study represents first-ever attempts in creating highly novel and advanced Titanium alloys.... Nitinol (a lightweight Nickel-Titanium alloy that is the “Cadillac” of memory metals) finds its history in late 1940s metallurgical work at Battelle — in studies that were contracted by Wright Patterson in the months immediately following the Roswell crash.

So what are the odds -- the Nazis were using nickel titanium alloys... and the shape memory properties were discovered "by accident" -- starting in 1932!!

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 11:14 PM
reply to post by drew hempel

Dear drew hempel

Ok so lets say you are right it is all down to the Germans. Roswell, flying craft the size of an aircraft carrier and all the rest of it.

We therefore have two realties and I don’t really argue that as it would seam to be a fact of life.

All these boffins that make appearances on documentaries and denigrate what very reliable people are saying. It would imply then that there are the boffins that know and the ones who grab the headlines that either do not know or are straight out lying.

So where in your opinion is it going, there has to be a purpose a reason for those really big bucks having been spent creating this alternative reality???

It all comes down to the reason for the secret???

posted on Apr, 19 2010 @ 11:50 PM
reply to post by MAC269

Right now you're ready for MY research. First read my Actual Matrix Plan expose -- written in 2000:

Then you can read my blog with links to my masters thesis, books, online interviews, articles -- all for FREE:

posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:07 AM
Ok, lets just actually see some of this so called evidence for the Nazi UFO

Note how, from the very start Cook is leading the people he is interviewing. Note how, they have to think twice before answering and obviously realise, they have been, in effect stitched up by Cook. Yes with the secret technology the Nazis were developing they might have won the war had it stretched another year. Note also how it is Cook and Cook alone who is talking about *Foo Fighters*.

Not how Cook makes a big thing about this *war winning technology* then shows a copy of a letter saying how * it is war winning technology*, from the scientists on the project to their bosses. Then note the date, 1942. So right , this war winning technology they had in 1942, what happened to them winning the war with it?

So it's off to the secret base. Note how it took a whole power station to supply enough energy to shift one of these *Bells* a few feet in the air over fixed installation. It's absolutely hilarious that Cook makes so much of this and then neglects to question his own theory when it's patently obvious that. The Bell experiment killed , not only 5 of the 7 people responsible for its' inception but was restricted to hovering over a huge installation. hardly the dozens of Foo Fighters encountered from the Atlantic via the Indian Ocean to the Pacific is it? Clue here Drew best pic of a foo fighter is flying behind a TBM3 Avenger in Pacific colours..TBM3 Avengers were rarer than hens teeth on the Western front, barring a few the Brits used on coastal patrol there were virtually none employed by the Americans in the Western theatre.

So, if you actually really do anything at all about the military history of WW2 that's that one busted completely.

Note how Cook constantly uses the terms *possibly* and *probably*, that;s because he doesn't actually have a shred of evidence to back his claims that Foo Fighters were German technology. Now, this is the real classic and shows just what bs artists these people are. Cook claims at the end of the video the Americans took the Bell back to the USA. Oh did they and quite how did they manage that? Given that, the Sudetenland was overrun by the Russikis and nowhere near the American sphere of influence. The Russkis had no intention of letting any Western troops inside Czechoslovakia from the moment they had conquered it.

Don't take my word for it..

So the Americans simply drove into the heart of Russian territory and said "Oh we've come for the secret Nazi Foo Fighters"? did they? Or did they launch some secret op in order to retrieve this technology. Technology that according to Cook, earlier in the video was, possibly buried in the tunnels and sealed there, along with it's scientists, as the Nazis fled.

Now where have we seen this before ?
A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is far ahead of any imaginable technology. Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse engineered MFD technology. The government will go to any lengths to protect this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin, and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption.

Oh yes, there it is exactly the same stuff being pedaled by these Nazi theorists but spoken by one Edgar Fouche and from his book published in 1998 and Fouche insists the technology is back engineered ALIEN tech not Nazi.

Drew, i don't disagree that there was some weird stuff going on. However, these guys are selling you a line in pure BS, cobbled together from a factually inaccurate history, that ignores what is already in the public's eye.

Personally, i strongly suspect that. Both Fouche and these Jokers are all misinformation agents and that, all of their tales about the lineage of *huge flying triangles* are pure bunkum designed to cover up the fact, we simply don't know whose they actually are.

Cook's methodology is, frankly, laughable, he and his co-conspirators are hoping that. Given most people don;t know that much about WW2 these days, they will accept their version of it over what actually happened.All they have done is to, steal Fouche's ideas and made up a whole story of their own to explain it.

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