why do people believe in god?

reply to post by curtish


thats my signature yes i dont believe in god and probably never will i dont expect to change my oppinion i do not think there is any purpose to life so yes i am an athiest and depending on your viewpoint, a nihlist

but the question i asked was pure curiosity and i will probably make threads later about why people believe in conspiracies, ufos, ghosts and the like it was not an attack on religion at all i just like to hear everyones point of view

as for your comparison of the different interpertations of the bible, well maybe you have proved me wrong and maybe not seeing that there are so many, the correct interpertation of the bible will probably never be found or agreed on now that i think about it. we have had a suggestion that was interesting at best and the discussion itself is more than likely not even close to finished for us and everyone else but in the meantime i wish you a favorible statistical outcome with your life good day

reply to post by Kailassa


a very interesting post none the less, however ive heard many stories similiar to that post and i have yet to believe any of them there is a thread of mine however i would like to direct you to i do not know how to get the BB codes to make a link to a thread but the title is "what is reality?" there i have drawn a pic of what i thought a guy was talking about with god and the seven layered jullyfish of reality it sounds crazy in description, but in reality...it still is but you would probably enjoy the thread

i bid you a favorable statistical outcome in life

reply to post by Brydaws


it cracks you up huh?

well it pisses me off when people read have a post and open their gaping maw

it also pisses me off when people get pissed over something they misinterpereted that was incredibly obvious

i obviously asked a question did i come off to you as if i was suffering and in agony? im curious thats why i asked a question

or did the big mean nasty atheists(and i say that with utmost sarcasm) make force you to say things of the douchebag kind? if you are spritual and im under the assumption you are then your christ would not approve of the comment that you have just made if not that kind of spiritual person than man you must be having a bad day

all in all you speak harshly and contribute nothing way to go be a bump on the proverbal log thanks for nothing and your killing ats like that

good day

ps would you like to actually contribute?

As some have mentioned we could have a biological god reflex built in.

Other thoughts.

God/religion sort of acts like a spiritual balance aid [if used properly]. Like credit to buy a home as opposed to some who uses it to throw drunken, fruitless parties. A subjective/imaginary account/'person' we can draw upon.

It could be a parental transference thing. Our parents are no longer those masterful knowing caring beings as we get older so we sort of create a mythical substitute, ie. 'god'.

It is a means of at least giving a pretense of coherence to our lives in a very often unpredictable, hard to comprehend circumstances.
We can cast ourselves as warriors in the great battle between the forces of 'good' & 'evil'. It gives a place we exist, an identity, a sense of importance. [it feeds our egos on grand paranoid fantasy]

I suppose there is also the social acceptability idea. If everyone else believes we think 'it might be true' & besides it makes us fit in with everyone else more easily.

I suppose if one identifies with the social outcast it takes on the desperate struggle drama aspect. This noble thing we carry, despite the ignorant [evil?] throngs.

I am sure there are other speculations.

Luckily for me i am smug & above it all, from my condescending vantage point. [teasing sort of]

[edit on 14-4-2010 by slank]

This is a tangent point because of a couple of posts,

evolution always creates new traits 'for no reason'

& even can keep them around if there is little or no expense/cost to keeping them. Evolution is mindless, it has no intent. [beyond the distributed mind(s) that may exist in a species]

Evolution is simply passive filtering of randomly occurring genetic alterations [as well as unchanging genetics] by the environment, which includes other organisms as part of that organism's/species's environment.

If that accidental trait confers superior survival or at the very least does not diminish it, it will quite possibly stay around [even more likely if survival depends on having that trait].

It is lame & passive, like a gas or fluid filling the environmental void as genetic changes allow it to better/more-maximally fill that void. Sort of like heat allows fluids to rise & expand to greater volume & height.

It could be we have a believe-in-god reflex because that is advantageous in some way or simply because we don't have a better response system & we simply fall/collapse back into that more primitive reflex.

The default to being in mid-air is falling down, unless you have wings or long legs or some other means of keeping you in that local.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by slank]

'Explanations' can be used to lay anxieties to rest. To still the mind.

God &/or dogmatic religion are sort of automatic 'explanations' & therefore highly tranquilizing.

What seems a bit weird to me is that we get hung up on the notion that 'my' god is the ONLY legitimate god & 'your' god is either insubstantial/trivial, or evil for existing in 'opposition' to 'my' god.

why do we do that? God territoriality?

perhaps an interesting question is are we, would we be better off with higher levels of anxiety? How & why & to what purpose?
While high anxiety may be tortuously unpleasant, it may drive us to be more productive & inventive, but i don't want to be premature with that proposition.

reply to post by ashanu90


In regards to the OP whom I don't want to come across as attacking cause that's not my point but I think s/he is misinformed or doesn't understand the meanings of the Bible or the words used. I was once like the OP in my understand when it came to "dragons" and "unicorns" but a little research goes a long way.

In regards to "unicorns" in the Bible they are more commonly translated into "rhinoceros" or "wild ox" by modern day translations of the Hebrew text which reflects the word re'em. So hopefully that clears up some confusion in that regard.

With the story of Noah and the Great Flood it's of note to realize that there wasn't two to seven animals chosen by Noah but 35,000 vertebrate (which are best estimate of the taxonomy list of species) animals chosen by God; since God was the one who round them all up. There was one male and one female, and the clean animals by seven that boarded the Ark which is where I believe the OP was inferring the 'two or seven worthy animals' .

When it came to feeding the animals no one knows because it doesn't say. One may reasonably assume that all the animals assumed a form of hybernation based on that animals specific physiology. So then with the in-breeding is not the same as it was back then because the bodies of man had not fully succumb to the sinful nature as we see today; i.e. aging, cancers, diseases, genetic disorders, etc. which is why man lived as long as they did compared to now. So when every tribal unit started to migrate away from Babel they each started to develop their own unique characteristics relative to the regions they moved to like we see today. Ultimately, to answer the question, just because they "inbred" doesn't mean God approved of it.

Now in regards to you thinking the Bible contradicts itself, please give me an example in the Bible of such an allegation. On the contrary, do not say "oh I just know it's there because it is" or something to that degree. Most people are misinformed on the meaning of what the true definition of "contradiction" is. Ask yourself these three questions when you suspect a contradiction: (1) Is the same thing or person under consideration? (2) Is the same time period in view? (3) Is the language that seems to be self-contradictory employed in the same sense? It is quite important that these questions be answered correctly. Just food for thought.

Originally posted by ashanu90
"god created itself" well in order to create you must first exist so no
"god just always was" im not buying that
"i dont question god" are you afraid your wrong?
"the big bang is proof that god created the universe" possibly but with the above statement of who created god? it just doesnt add up

(1) Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time God is the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15). Therefore He doesn't have a cause. Which makes statement one illogical.
(2) refer to above statement.
(3)At issue is not whether we should question God, but in what manner—and for what reason—we question Him. To question God is not in itself wrong. Insincere questions, or questions from a hypocritical heart, are a different matter. “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” (Hebrews 11:6)
(4) In Genesis 1, God created the earth before the sun and stars. The Big Bang theory requires it to be the other way around. In Genesis 1, God created all matter by His spoken word. The Big Bang theory begins with matter already in existence and never explains the initial source or cause of matter. The true purpose of the Big Bang theory is to deny His existence.

reply to post by ashanu90


Hi,
You wrote:
reply to post by curtish

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You wrote:

""thats my signature yes i dont believe in god and probably never will i dont expect to change my oppinion i do not think there is any purpose to life so yes i am an athiest and depending on your viewpoint, a nihlist

but the question i asked was pure curiosity and i will probably make threads later about why people believe in conspiracies, ufos, ghosts and the like it was not an attack on religion at all i just like to hear everyones point of view

as for your comparison of the different interpertations of the bible, well maybe you have proved me wrong and maybe not seeing that there are so many, the correct interpertation of the bible will probably never be found or agreed on now that i think about it. we have had a suggestion that was interesting at best and the discussion itself is more than likely not even close to finished for us and everyone else but in the meantime i wish you a favorible statistical outcome with your life good day ""

Hi,
I like your honest statement, that you don't believe in God. Personally I like people who don't believe in God. All of the so called atheists I have encountered so far are amazingly objective, moral, ethical and honest to a degree not found typically anywhere, it seems.

I also have noticed that I have never ever found, yet, a person, who believes that there is no possibility of a God. With that being said, please let me get back to the real enjoyment of you. You are enjoyable.

One correction though, I did not suggest anything on the interpretations of the Bible. In my work I used many Bibles, and found which were wrong in their translations. Some are out and out forgeries of the real content and know this, some people, some even with Phd's, but not all, are engaged in out right forgery.

My experience started, well, openly, with the Jehovah's Witnesses claiming a lot of things. I looked into their claims and found I could not prove them wrong or right. Two very important people were being influenced by them and I went into a study to see if they were being mislead or not.

Soon, I needed to see if the Bible was Real. I did not know. I tested it to try and prove it wrong, but, only because that is part of the procedure. The second part is not to care personally whether it is right or wrong. I did both. I used everything I understood in Science to try and find a mistake.

Later, I took my findings to the greater community, like yourself, and asked them if they found any flaws in my work. Eventually, I was left with not being able to prove a single item wrong. This took about 10 years or more.

That is the context, and understanding of which I meant for proof. The only variance from person to person in their own work is due to what they are schooled in. My schooling was primarily Electrical Engineering, which is a science within the larger field of Physics. Yours is almost certainly different.

What floored me, was the proof of correctness that followed, not the failure to prove it wrong. But that is another story.

Oh by the way, the Jehovah's Witnesses won and lost in their assertions. In the Jehovah's Witness Language usage, which is not ours at all but merely sounds like it, they out themselves as not being led by God, and not knowing God at all. Yet, when we hear their words, as we use normal definitions in 'our' language, it comes out as they know God, and are led by God, through angels.

The difference is in, they redefine many of our words on purpose. The reason for this, I do not know, yet.

My sage once said, "Take a guess and try and prove your guess wrong." That, along with "One experiment is worth a thousand expert opinions." really makes progress happen.

reply to post by curtish


You can't prove them wrong, but you can prove their ignorance. Which is almost around the same lines as wrong. Common....They would rather let there kid die, then give them a blood transfusion becasue it goes against there religion. Makes me sick.

the bible does contradict itself quite a bit and i cannot take it seriously

I guess I'll just file in under pissed off offended zealot.
Although I fail to see why anyone would get pissed off at your meaningless opinion.
You have likely heard that it is impossible to prove that God exists. You have heard wrong. Not only can the existence of God be proven, denying the proof undermines rational thought. It is true that God does not need anyone, let alone me, to prove His existence.The existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for denying it. No one needs proof that God exists.

Slank

evolution always creates new traits 'for no reason'

You should watch how you say things.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Maddogkull


Dear,

If it is the Jehovah's Witnesses of which you speak, why do you say that you can't prove them wrong, when for them it is not to prove them wrong it is too understand, what they are actually saying.

Are you unaware, that in their language of "Witness Speak" they actually tell the truth to the accusing public.

When "Witness Speak" is used it sounds to us like, they are led by the Christian's, The Holy Spirit, or angels.

Here is an example, I was talking to a Jehovah's Witness, of long standing and many conversations in which I explored their theology. I was amazed at how, rancorous this person became, everytime I asked for more clarification. Her superior, was the same. I have been essentially yelled at by them. I have also written to their society, and have received back, false information, by their own hand. But at the same time this is not false according to their central theme, they are all doing as the prophet Ezekiel is doing. When they do what Ezekiel is doing, getting on the wall and telling the people what is to come, they are prophets like that. When they also tell people where they are following god's (case is correct.) way of doing things to the people, they are prophets like that. Further, it said, if you don't believe us just check the record. (And they are totally correct, wait, you'll see once you translate their Witness Speak.)

Do you see the wording and the real, to us non-Witness's, meaning. Do you understand, that to act like someone you are not, does not give you their abilities, it is merely acting.

Prior to their "When we do as Ezekiel did.,," statement , they in their own article said, we are not inspired and we are not infallible.

Inspired has the Bible meaning of God causes a thing to happen, that The Holy Spirit says is true. (The Christian's definition as I understand it.)
Infallible, is the Roman Catholic meaning for the few cases, in which The Holy Spirit, leads or keeps an issue in the Roman Catholic Church from error. That is an issue, as compared to the totality of all that is said and done by all those not in authority in the Roman Catholic Church, only certain issues are without error, (mostly those of Faith and morals I think), by the Power of The Holy Spirit. (The Roman Catholic Christian's definition as I understand it.)

Thus they are actually saying, The Holy Spirit, (God- for all salient understanding here), does not cause what they say or do to be true in their religion.

In the conversation, this person asked me who wrote the article. I said it has no author. They said, it is the organization then, they do not put their author's name on their own articles.

I was then summrily chastised for not listening to this person personally and for going to someone else for the information. Then this amazing statement poured forth: "Yes , (we are prophets like that and our record proves it), why do you think we have had to change our scripture so many times over the years."

At this point, I and you should be beyond stunned, for they told momentarily, that this is true. This person confirmed, all that was written here, and, showed total understanding of their preaching. Do you see that?

In their literature, you need to read real close, and find out how they define all their words. It took me 20 years to get this far. I only wanted to know.

How is that. There is more like the core person of the typical member, but, it can be proved that they tell the truth to the public, in code, at least in this case. Others, who I have talked to, say internally it is less honest than I have found as an outsider, but, that is unproven as of yet. It was merely stated with experiences by the former, member.

This piece, on how they are prophets, you can verify yourself as being either as stated here, or not.



...

Originally posted by randyvs

the bible does contradict itself quite a bit and i cannot take it seriously

I anyone would get pissed off at your meaningless opinion.

You have likely heard that it is impossible to prove that God exists. You have heard wrong. Not only can the existence of God be proven, denying the proof undermines rational thought. It is true that God does not need anyone, let alone me, to prove His existence.


The existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for denying it. No one needs proof that God exists.

Slank



[edit on 14-4-2010 by randyvs]

well for one with your logic who care about your meaningless oppinion

god only needs you to prove his existence? i suspect you suffer delusions of granduer who do you think you are keeanu reeves?

if this proof is so obvious show me dont dodge the question just answer it

and i think you are a brainwashed zealot for saying we dont need to proove god exists

I think the op is confusing God... the mystery, the incomprehensible entity, the ground of all being, the great creator... with religion. That is like confusing the map for the terrain, or the menu for the meal. It is like confusing the noun with the actual person, place, or thing.

The problem with belief in God is not God. The problem is solely in the hearts and minds of men.

"Now Heaven and Earth are older than the temples,
and older than the Scriptures,
and whether we realize it or not,
they hold more authority.

For over the Earth,
there are many temples and many Scriptures.
And however noble the temples may be,
they are the designs of men,
and in time they will return to the Earth.
And however inspired the Scriptures might have been,
they are the words of men
and they remain subject to the translations
and the various interpretations of men,
until what we call "The Word of God"
becomes no more than the words of men.

And, as a man carries his chosen scripture
close to his heart, reading, quoting, and declaring,
Heaven and Earth go their way.
And after this man makes just so many trips around
the sun, he leaves his body to the Earth.
He gives his breath to the wind,
he gives his mind and his heart
to the children of the generations to come. "

- eden ahbez (name intentionally not capitalized)

reply to post by josheboyxiii


interesting read did you write that yourself?

Why do people believe in god? Why do people disbelieve in god? I believe, but cannot prove. It's down to faith. Likewise nonbelievers cannot disprove god. Our senses are imperfect, therefore the information we gather through our senses is imperfect, and therefore our knowledge is also imperfect. In light of this, to say god absolutely doesn't exist, is ignorance.

reply to post by ashanu90


I didnt write the eden ahbez quote. eden wrote it :p

The sentiment of what I wrote myself is old and said many different times and in many different ways. I cannot take credit for it at all. In fact I think one of the expressions I wrote ("confusing the map for the terrain") was originally said by Alan Watts in one of his many recorded lectures.

There is a saying in Zen that talks about confusing the symbol for the actual. They use the metaphor of a "finger pointing to the moon", where scripture/religion is symbolized by the finger, and the moon is the symbol by God (God's true form, not idea/image that religion has created of God). Of course we see that the finger is a good guide, and it should be used as a guide, but people tend to focus so much on the finger that they completely fail to see the moon. People get so caught up in scriptural and religious arguments that they completely forget about the underlying Truth and Purpose of it.

People become so critical of organized religion and literal interpretations of scripture that they confuse that with God itself, and thus become critical of God.

Scripture should only be interpreted as metaphorical and allegorical, which can contain provable TRUTH, but not necessarily contain provable FACT (of which there is a huge difference). In my opinion, people who believe the Earth was created in 7 Earth Days just because the Bible says so are just as ignorant as people who deny any possibility of the existence of a creator simply because scripture isn't written in a scientific-fact format and because the man-made institution of religion is less than perfect.

I can't prove that there is a God. Nor can I disprove it. But to deny the possibility of God because the words and actions of men are fallible seems downright silly to me.

Alan Watts was a big fan of "Atheism in the name of God", in which he urged us all to remove our images and pre-conceptions of God in order that we may experience God as God truly is, rather than God as we want God to be. He says that such an attitude is much more akin to true "faith" than conforming God to our pre-conceptions and our own ignorant and fallible ideas of God.

In other words, quit trying to limit God to human standards and you will begin to experience the real possibility of a very real God.

this thread should be in below top secret, whether it is from a religious perspective or not. i 'm sensing a trend here, some mod on ATS is picking and choosing which religion based threads are crammed into the abyss known as below top secret, and which ones are not. if i figure out what the reason is, i'll be all over it like grease on bacon.

Well the question of the thread was Why do people believe in god. Sounds something more of asking about the unknown, cause god can be anything from a guy in the sky to a master vibration of the universe. That would put this in the metaphysics category. It all depends if he is talking about a religious god or just having belief in general.

reply to post by undo


well i say it shout be on ats because its a aquestion and people answer it and some of the answerers may gain some sort of insight themselves who knows i think its a pretty good thread theres a ton of posts on it

Originally posted by BellaMente
I agree with you AwakeinNM!

There is an enormous amount of scientific evidence that this Universe is a giant Hologram and that our bodies and minds interpret experiences as a hologram interprets the non-local interference patterns recorded on the a piece of holographic film.

So our experiences are really holographic projections! We can holographically experience God, holographically experience UFO's, or holographically experience reality and holographically experience nothingness...

If we live in a holographic universe, then what are holographs? A holograph of a holograph? Wouldn't something explode?



[edit on 15-4-2010 by AwakeinNM]