Clinically dead boy 'saw grandma in heaven'

You guys need to read "Into the Light" by Dr. John Lerma who works in a Hospice Hospital funded by Bush during his dictorial 8 years in office.
Lerma has documented hundreds of cases from his hospital-his OWN PATIENTS and what they saw right before they died. At the end of the book, it tells you a rap sheet of SCIENTIFIC (because I know how Americans feel about everything needing to be 'documented' before they believe anything....) EVIDENCE of the Afterlife. (rough estimate since I don't have the book in front of me) Almost 95% of people claims to see angels in their hospice rooms right before death. 5% see demons; usually those who see demons have killed people.

I don't need 'scientific evidence' due to my strong belief in my ancestors beliefs. That's how I knew the 'Aliens' (Star People) were real too. I have seen craft, and photographed them as well. The Tibetan book of the Dead, and Egyptian Cuniform translations detail accounts VERY SIMILAR to what today's 'NDE'RS' say they witness....thats 'evidence' document 2-5,000 years ahead of today's beliefs.

reply to post by fordrew


See now that deserves a star

Us humans need to be able to say "we don't know everything". There are a lot of people out there who are so certain about things in life. Truth is we all make mistakes and we arent all that intelligent.

reply to post by Maddogkull


Agreed! If people want to know so badly if there is life after death then die already!!


If anyone has any documented cases of NDEs of people who do not even know who god is that would be AWESOME.

Why must an entity come into an incarnation and lose conscious memory of what he/she/it wants to do?

It's quite simple, if there are no potentials for misunderstanding..., there would be no experience.

To have an effective illusion it must be considerably real the most powerful tool of the illusion being pain.


This illusion is semi-permeable most just don't know that it is an illusion thus do not know the permeability.

reply to post by hippomchippo


I'm pretty much convinced that we're vibrational beings that are just wearing a monkey suit, tuned into this plane of reality, and I say that as someone who spent 20 years as an uncompromising atheist.

Some states of mind (and various substances) let you 're-tune your antenna' into different planes, and it's something you shouldn't deny unless you've actually experienced it - at which point (if you're at all capable of logical thought), you won't be able to deny it (unless you're great at lying to yourself), and you'll spend a long time trying to figure it out.

The guys in this thread who're 'debunking' the boys experience should perhaps get a little more experience themselves before they rule this stuff out. I too was pretty small minded and 'logical' about these things, but I can't deny my own personal experience, and I'm not convinced my imagination is good enough to create some of the stuff I've seen while 'not here,' be that induced with meditation or substance use - (MODS - can I talk about this stuff on the board or is it banned? I be new round 'ere).

On the subject of '___'.... it's naturally in pretty much every living thing, and in our case it get's dumped into the fetus on day 49 and again when you die. There's 6 to 12 minutes of brain activity after you die, which is coincidentally around the length of the 'peak' of a '___' trip. Some theorise it's the substance that 'tunes' us in - that day 49 is when we plug in, and we unplug when we die.

Having had the stuff I can attest that it's unlike anything you've ever experienced before - I'd be here all day explaining my first experience and it only lasted 20 minutes, but I'm as sure as I can be that 'I' went somewhere else, I wasn't here anymore, but I was still consciously me. It wasGiven the stuff get's dumped into you when you die, it seems logical to me that without a body to come back to you stay wherever it is you go.

If you're at all interested in the subject you should check out 'The Spirit Molecule' by Rick Strassmen. He's a true scientist, and the stuff completely changed his take on life, the universe and everything. Like his subjects said.... you can be an atheist till you've done 0.4mg/kg, and after that you've got to ask yourself some serious questions.

reply to post by eightfold


Great Post! Seems a lot of people on here have things in common with '___' By the way, when you say vibrational beings what do you mean by that?

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
Nice story...you can read thousands of NDE's on the site below. There is always new stuff.

www.nderf.org...

LOVE THIS SITE and Dr. Jeffrey Longs book Evidence of the afterlife. It is so fascinating and just makes you long for the other side!

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer

 

HERPERDERPDERPDERP brain dies at x amount of time
.

no herperderderpderp you!

lololol

sorry i found that funny

Originally posted by eightfold
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

I'm pretty much convinced that we're vibrational beings that are just wearing a monkey suit, tuned into this plane of reality, and I say that as someone who spent 20 years as an uncompromising atheist.

Some states of mind (and various substances) let you 're-tune your antenna' into different planes, and it's something you shouldn't deny unless you've actually experienced it - at which point (if you're at all capable of logical thought), you won't be able to deny it (unless you're great at lying to yourself), and you'll spend a long time trying to figure it out.

The guys in this thread who're 'debunking' the boys experience should perhaps get a little more experience themselves before they rule this stuff out. I too was pretty small minded and 'logical' about these things, but I can't deny my own personal experience, and I'm not convinced my imagination is good enough to create some of the stuff I've seen while 'not here,' be that induced with meditation or substance use - (MODS - can I talk about this stuff on the board or is it banned? I be new round 'ere).

On the subject of '___'.... it's naturally in pretty much every living thing, and in our case it get's dumped into the fetus on day 49 and again when you die. There's 6 to 12 minutes of brain activity after you die, which is coincidentally around the length of the 'peak' of a '___' trip. Some theorise it's the substance that 'tunes' us in - that day 49 is when we plug in, and we unplug when we die.

Having had the stuff I can attest that it's unlike anything you've ever experienced before - I'd be here all day explaining my first experience and it only lasted 20 minutes, but I'm as sure as I can be that 'I' went somewhere else, I wasn't here anymore, but I was still consciously me. It wasGiven the stuff get's dumped into you when you die, it seems logical to me that without a body to come back to you stay wherever it is you go.

If you're at all interested in the subject you should check out 'The Spirit Molecule' by Rick Strassmen. He's a true scientist, and the stuff completely changed his take on life, the universe and everything. Like his subjects said.... you can be an atheist till you've done 0.4mg/kg, and after that you've got to ask yourself some serious questions.

You can believe what you want, but one scientists who says taking a drug will make you go into a spiritual realm does not make it true in the slightest, and I will consider it to be what all other drugs are, chemicals that mess with the mind in specific ways.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
Doubtful it was heaven, as it is just a superstition.

Also doubtful his grandmother spoke or communicated with him. Who knows what the poor bloke saw.

OT:
And the boys speaking to his grandmother was doubtful for what reason?

A little story for you. A few months back, my youngest daughter was telling me about my grandson and his great grandpa(my dad). When my grandson was three, he kept telling his mom about a friend he had. He said that his friend would come and talk to him at night. This went on for months. My daughter said she had an old photo book out looking through the pictures with the grandson. She was telling him who the people were in the pictures. When she turned the page, the boys eyes just gleamed. He looked at his mom and told her that guy in the picture was his friend Jim, the guy who talks to him at night. She started to cry, and asked him how he knew who that guy was. He kind of laughed at his mom and said "you know mom, he told me his name".

He had never seen his greatgrandpa in his life, or even knew his name. You see, my dad passed away in 91, and my grandson was born in 96. That was the reason she was showing him the pictures, so he would know who his great grandparents were.

I dont doubt this a bit, as my dad loved his grand children and great grandchildren very much. And it alway broke his heart when he knew of any child who was without one of their parents. He always tried to fill that roll for a kid, any kid that needed it.

I have always believed that the conscious mind lives on after leaving the body. Some say it doesn`t. But if that is the case, then there is no reason for our being. To live a life full of many happenings, only to die and just go to nothingness is illogical.

reply to post by hippomchippo


You are right, that does not make it true. I do not use drugs to achieve out of body, however from what i hear they are helpful. However, i still choose the healthier method of meditation.

I too used to be a full blown atheist as many people here state they used to be too, however i now see how small minded i was being, thinkin that because many scientist say conciousness comes from biological process, that makes it true.

We are far from understanding our world, and our conciousness. This makes keeping an open mind without bias very crucial.

edit to add: I am in no position to argue weather '___' is healthy or not, so even though it may or may not harm me, I do not wish to take the risk.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Good Intentions]

Originally posted by Good Intentions
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

You are right, that does not make it true. I do not use drugs to achieve out of body, however from what i hear they are helpful. However, i still choose the healthier method of meditation.

I too used to be a full blown atheist as many people here state they used to be too, however i now see how small minded i was being, thinkin that because many scientist say conciousness comes from biological process, that makes it true.

We are far from understanding our world, and our conciousness. This makes keeping an open mind without bias very crucial.

All evidence shows us that consciousness does indeed come from the mind, atleast who you are, memories, personality, is all in the mind, we don't know the exact process by which we became conscious, but that doesn't mean we won't ever have a natural explanation, so I would much rather wait for a logical explanation than to take a fantastic one.

reply to post by hippomchippo


wow funny. Even skeptics like Sagan and Hawkins don’t even use "all". All evidence does not point that consciousness is in the mind. If it did 100% we would not have this conversation. There are arguments on both sides, and BOTH have really good arguments. We do not know what’s on the other side, so to say we do know is stupid. 100 years of science, and we can say we figured out the universe and life......Now that is a stupid belief.

reply to post by Maddogkull


Thanks, glad you liked it. I was umming and ahhing about posting it after I wrote it, but I'm glad I did now.

When I say vibrational beings.....

Everything we experience is vibrating energy, and we can measure a lot of it. Light, sound and touch are just us decoding vibrations then 'rendering' them in our brain. Visible light is electromagnetic energy vibrating within specific frequecies, and there's a whole spectrum of EM energy that we assign different names to - x-rays, UV, IR etc - all the same stuff, just at different frequencies.

Atoms vibrate (it's how atomic clocks work) - for example, aluminium atoms vibrate at 1.1 petahertz, which is bloody fast.

Then there's 'me'. I'm reasonably convinced that 'I' am just energy that's (mostly) tied to this monkey suit I call a body. Our brains lock that energy into a particular resonance, which gives us the experience of this physical plane. By meditating or using one of the tryptamines you can temporarily detach yourself from this plane and experience another one.

Like you said, people have very similar experiences with '___'. Other tryptamines give wildly different results in different people - ridiculous visions varying from cartoonlike to folding time and space, feelings of connectedness and lovelyness to sheer terror.

'___' is something different imo - like someone snapped their fingers and you open your eyes somewhere else....it's so real, intense and vivid... people often describe very similar places, similar beings and generally similar experiences that suggest to me that it either does something very specific to everyone, creating these same visions in all of us, or that these places 'physically' exist, and we visit them. I know what version I prefer, but that doesn't mean to say I'm right. The jury is very much still out for me on that front.

Maddogkull - check out that book I recommended, I suspect you'll love it.

reply to post by hippomchippo


I feel that understanding the process of which we became concious, is crucial to understanding conciousenss as a whole. As i said, i also keep an open mind because as you said, alot of evidence shows it is purely biological. However, my own experiences show me that there is alot more to it then what is being studied. If it originates outside our bodies, outside our three-dimensional universe, then it won't be exactly easy to make the discovery.

Our current scientific tools would not be advanced enough. I understand it seems like a fantastic explanation, but as I said in a previous post, this is something you can see for yourself in order to make a judgement rather than blindly believe everyone who says it is real. If you'd rather search for yourself then wait for a "logical explanation", i suggested looking into out of body experience/astral projection.

As i said, you have nothing to lose, meditation is proven beneficial to your health, and an out of body experience will be something anybody will enjoy, as you are not bound to the physics we know today. Even if it is just bodily process, it is an exciting bodily process that you will enjoy. I understand you are skeptical, as i said I if this was me 2 years ago I would've just laughed, but there's no reason to bash it if you haven't experienced it.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Good Intentions]

reply to post by Maddogkull


I agree man, it is ignorant to say we have it all figured out. Scientists do not hesitate to say that we have much more to learn. Science has been wrong many times, and can be in the future. That's what makes science so beautiful, it is ever changing and you must keep your mind open to new discovories.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by Good Intentions]

Originally posted by Kaytagg
I've heard that when you die, your brain floods with '___', which is a hallucinogenic chemical that is also released during REM sleep.

So, he probably did see his grandmother, in the same kind of way I've "gone to school wearing just my underwear" kind of way -- know what I mean?

You know, there is absolutely nothing you can say about this substance unless you have experienced it.

Not that I have

I heard '___' has no effect on the brain at all. It puts you in a completely different world without ever effecting your brain.

"'___' only last 7 to 10 minutes and yet it's the most profound dislocation of reality that you can undergo" -Terance McKenna

"'___' is not like a physadelic drug, it's more like a parallel continuum. It's like you've broken through to some alien data-space. '___' does not effect your mind, it simply replaces the world; 100% with something completely unexpected. But your relationship to that unexpected thing is not one of exaggerated fear or exaggerated fear. Your reaction is exactly what it would be without '___'. You don't feel your mind moving, you just see that the world has been replaced by something that you could have not even conceived of or imagined." -Terance McKenna

I read this somewhere and do not recall who said it, but it definitely applies here.

"If you believe, then no proof is required. If you do not, then no proof is possible."

In the end it all comes down to what you believe to be true. Your truth is not necessarily someone else's truth.

Originally posted by eightfold
Then there's 'me'. I'm reasonably convinced that 'I' am just energy that's (mostly) tied to this monkey suit I call a body. Our brains lock that energy into a particular resonance, which gives us the experience of this physical plane. By meditating or using one of the tryptamines you can temporarily detach yourself from this plane and experience another one.

Well put. I would have said that you realize that the current physical form you are in now (or daily) is just temporary. Meditation might release states close to most tryptamines, but to get into that level.. hard. If not impossible.

Magical things, really. Or maybe it's actually the deeper reality we are mostly incapable penetrating to.