Clinically dead boy 'saw grandma in heaven'

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Actually, in fairness to the biological process, blue eyes and blond hair are a part of that biological process but not everyone has blue eyes and blond hair. While I am not so sure of the "science" behind fingerprinting as identification, and I just don't know enough about retinal scans, it would seem that these technologies reveal a certain uniqueness to people and some of their biological processes. I am not quite sure if there is anything people do biologically the same, except for experience body death, and even that comes with a huge variance in how those deaths happened. Well, death and maybe taxes.

just shows you you wont die until god wants you to go

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Solomons
NDE's are a result of the body dying, the lack of oxygen and a specific mixture of chemical processes cause them. I have never seen any evidence to prove they are more than that and absolutely no explanation as to why most people have no such experiences, if floating off to magical land is what happens when you die then why does it not happen to everyone? I have a close friend that died and was resuscitated, he had no NDE...does he not have a soul?

Like i said, i believe it is a very specific mix of things that cause them hence not everyone experiences them.

And if it is a basic biological process...then I have the same question you do...why doesn't everyone have one?

If it is a chemical reaction of '___'...why doesn't everyone experience it? If the lack of oxygen causes this...why doesn't everyone experience it?

It doesn't seem like a very "scientific" explaination if only a few experience it, but it is a basic biological process.

that also doesnt explain my grandma leaving her body and seeing another women in a different room in the hospital were she 'died' for a few minutes ...and asking the doctors about her when she came back...and the doctors being amazed and asking her how she knew about the other lady...

theres more to this than we know..and to say its all made up and simply 'dreams' is..i think...a bit short sighted and arrogant...and..im an atheist just incase anyone thinks im a religious crazy..

Just because Homey said he saw his great gma doesn't mean he is lying. Also just because he saw his great gma doesn't mean she was in Heaven. We don't know for certain where we go when we die, it might be "Heaven" and it might not be. Either way, its somewhere we get to kick it with dead relatives apparently. Sounds like a party to me.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


The majority of people don't remember the dreams they have each night, either.

There is a surgical procedure now carried out where the body is cooled and the patient is clinical dead for up to an hour. Once those patients recover some relate "bright lights" etc whilst many report nothing.

Oh my god many report nothing!! Of course these cases are mysteriously ignored by those who wish to believe in life after death.

If there is life after death then everybody should experience it irrespective of their earthly beliefs. I have not heard of any religion that has life after death as part of its preachings having a "no post death life" as a get out clause just in case science catches them out.....yet again!

When you are dead you are dead full stop, live your life now. Many of us have experienced life threatening situations (I avoided a car crash) and in that split second time slowed to a crawl, which is why I was able to avoid the crash. Whose to say what happens during those last seconds of blood flow to the brain, dreams perhaps. Dreams fuelled by the knowledge of the situation you are in ie life threatening. DUH! No need to invent the supernatural.

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
I'd like to interject, before all the atheist nuts move in for the kill.

=)

So you believe in the great Sky God who made the Earth and everything on it in 6 days and rules over every aspect of our lives.

But apparently people who don't believe that are the nuts.

Are you familiar with the word irony?

Just to chip in, the argument about '___' is a theory. Medical science does not know factually that this happens. Its a theory that has been put forward to try to explain NDE's. Of course it in no way explains how people can be hovering about their dead body, see and describe everything around them, including being able to read things in other rooms. So the '___' thing you guys are stating as medical fact, is in actuality a theory. Important to point out.

reply to post by sputniksteve



You never actually "leave" heaven your essence is always there, you just bring a part of you to envelope the body that you now use to experience and learn from the external/physical creation.

Heaven is not a city in the sky, it is everything.

Nobody really ever dies, it's all illusion a very elaborate realness but still just that, an illusion.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
I've heard that when you die, your brain floods with '___', which is a hallucinogenic chemical that is also released during REM sleep.

So, he probably did see his grandmother, in the same kind of way I've "gone to school wearing just my underwear" kind of way -- know what I mean?

He's 3
What experience does he have to build a base from to draw?
He doesnt even understand the concept at 3.
He's still crapping in his pants from time to time.
He's 3
I'm going to take his word for it.
He doesnt understand LIE or TRICK or B.S.

Yet ! like we supposedly do, here.

[edit on 9-4-2010 by HappilyEverAfter]

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


That is true...but this process they are describing is more like taking '___'. Most people (all people?) are going to have a reaction if they take '___'...yet it won't be the same experience.

In NDEs...if it was caused by '___', it isn't only that ALL people don't react to it...but those that do all have very similar "mind" experiences.

So when I say a biological process...I don't mean so much as blue eyes, or unique fingerprints....I more-so mean when people are injected with morphine, it's going to make them feel good...only a very very small minority don't feel the effects. Where as with the supposed '___'...it appears only a very few do feel the effects.

Originally posted by malcr
I have not heard of any religion that has life after death as part of its preachings having a "no post death life" as a get out clause just in case science catches them out.....yet again!

The Egyptians, for one, believed souls could become so corrupt they are simply swallowed by the abyss upon death. Denied any chance to reincarnate or reach godhood.

reply to post by spearhead


Amazing.

But nothing really new here since my nephew knew both of my grand-parents by their names as soon as he learned to speak and never had the chance to meet neither them while they were alive. Both died 10 years before he was born and we could see him speaking with them at least once a week and giving details of how they looked like that he simply couldn't knew about.

None of us had shown him any pictures or even mentioned his great grand parents to him at that point since death isn't something easy for a two year old to wrap his head around. Well at least in theory, because after those episodes it became clear as crystal that children of that age were able to understand death better than we do.

The amount of details he was able to provide was so rich and faithful to how my grand parents were like that most in my family would simply freak out into fear or break into tears. He was able to see and speak with them up to the age of ~4, after that it ceased and now he barely remembers seeing them.

he didn't see heaven it was the next plane of life he saw ware our spirits go after our body's die thats what i think he saw my dad had a similar experience when he got hit by a car when he was 10 he died and came back said he saw a light that pushed him back

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

That is true...but this process they are describing is more like taking '___'. Most people (all people?) are going to have a reaction if they take '___'...yet it won't be the same experience.

I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that '___' is cut with strychnine in order to kick off natural chemicals in the brain that when combined with '___', create the hallucinatory effect.

In NDEs...if it was caused by '___', it isn't only that ALL people don't react to it...but those that do all have very similar "mind" experiences.

This is a most excellent point, and for those physicalists out there, an important one to answer to.

So when I say a biological process...I don't mean so much as blue eyes, or unique fingerprints....I more-so mean when people are injected with morphine, it's going to make them feel good...only a very very small minority don't feel the effects. Where as with the supposed '___'...it appears only a very few do feel the effects.

Thanks for clarifying that. It is a problematic theory this '___' argument, but that is all it is, just a theory.

reply to post by Risen


This argument doesn't prove much at all. Because for those in NDE's who do remember their "dream" as you are comparing it to...all seem to have a very very similar dream.

Does anyone care to explain how that is? Even a 3 year old, as someone pointed out above, who doesn't already have a preconceived notion of what is going to happen after death??? And as someone else pointed out...why do they only "see" relatives that have already died? If it is just a "dream" or "hallucination"...why wouldn't they see thier living loved ones...their spouse or children??? Why a great grandmother, or grandfather, or distant uncle who has passed away before them???


I'm not saying I have the answers...in fact I am saying I absolutely don't have the answers. I am just disagreeing with those that want to pretend they know everything and simply write it off as "meh...it's '___'" or "yeah...it's just lack of oxygen" or "It's just a dream".

I don't buy that...too many unanswered questions. And if they want to be SCIENTIFIC about their thinking...they would investigate those questions instead of writting them off so THEY can live in their comfortable little world where everything is figured out and has an answer.

reply to post by Kaytagg


Impossible if it was his great grandmother! He is only three years old. His grandma most likely passed before his birth so it is truely a heavenly experience.
Some information on that would clarify the situation.
But still this gives me some hope that my Opa is waiting and watching out for me!!
RIP Opa

The problem with the scientist and super naturalist is that when science can not currently explain a problem, the super naturalist takes that as their own proof of their own theory.

But that is what being a super naturalist entails. Having no proof of any side.

AKA - Ignorance is bliss.

i call BS, if his heart stopped beating for 3 hours + he wouldnt be in any state to speak again.....ever...he would be brain dead

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
The problem with the scientist and super naturalist is that when science can not currently explain a problem, the super naturalist takes that as their own proof of their own theory.

But that is what being a super naturalist entails. Having no proof of any side.

AKA - Ignorance is bliss.

If you are calling me a "super naturalist" then go please quote me on where I make a claim of anything super natural going on.

What I am saying is that I don't know what is going on...but something is going on and it is something that we currently do not have an understanding of.


Let's take a look at the word "super-natural" though. Our current thinking is that there are only a few "natural" processes. Chemical and Electrical are the main ones I can think of. If you can think of another one...please post it...there probably are...but right now I'm only coming up with those two. So we have two "natural" processes...that seems rather narrow...I'm not arrogant enough to claim we have it all figured out...so I am able to speculate that maybe there are other processes that we do not understand yet. If you want to call that "super natural" because it currently doesn't fit into the current thinking of "natural" processes...be my guest. But don't equate "super natural" in this way to "magical". Because at one time...electricity was seen as "magic" too.