Clinically dead boy 'saw grandma in heaven'

reply to post by SiKFury


Hell would be described as being reborn on this god forsaken rock! Heaven would be anything but...

There are theories in science such as M-Theory that think our universe is a multiverse of 11 dimensions. If you practice out of body experiences, you would have expereinced many different dimensions. I am not at all saying that trying to say that since science can't explain it, it has to be supernatural. I think that science will be able to explain it, and tie the two together.

I am not just having blind faith, it is one of those things you realy need to experience for yourself to bieleve, especially for a skeptic. As i have stated before, i used to strongly disagree that there were other dimensions and afterlife, I always thought that way since i was a child as i never learned about religion, nor read any bibles or whatever. I never practiced religion, and never considered it logical. At the time I had no doubt in my mind that everything in this universe was purely biological and made up of our elements which all started from the big bang.

When i was around 15, i learned about NDE's and thought it was pretty cool and would be nice if it were true, however it is deffinatly the mysteries of the brain. It wasn't till i experienced it for myself, that I changed my opininions on it. That is not blind faith. For you guys to just believe what I'm saying, would be blind faith, so I am not expecting anyone to at all. You can see it for yourselves, all you gotta do is research how to do it!

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Good Intentions]

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

wow funny. Even skeptics like Sagan and Hawkins don’t even use "all". All evidence does not point that consciousness is in the mind. If it did 100% we would not have this conversation. There are arguments on both sides, and BOTH have really good arguments. We do not know what’s on the other side, so to say we do know is stupid. 100 years of science, and we can say we figured out the universe and life......Now that is a stupid belief.

Did you not read what I said? I said we don't have an explanation for consciousness as a whole, I said personality and who WE are, is in our brain, that is documented.

In support for this:

It was customary for the executioner to hold the severed head up when a person was guillutined.
This was not to show the head to the crowd. It was to show the crowd to the head.

It was believed (with dubious evidence) that the head could still see for around ten seconds. The account of Dr. Beaurieux who observed the decapitation of a convict named Languille in 1905, may imply that the head could still see as he recounts "Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focussed themselves"

Other sources have mentioned that some level of consciusness exists after decaptation, but in itself it is a grousome field of investigation, so not much have been done.
The fact remains that a number of sources report the same thing.

So it seems that counsciousness is indeed in our heads.

reply to post by Dr VanNostrin


"The NDE has recently been attributed to a high content of CO2 in the blood stream. "

While I was up at the wee hours of the morning reading this thread (and reading certain things on the recommended web-pages.....) I DO recall reading about that CO2 study and that this Dr. Jeffrey Long (?) stated that the study was too small...and I, like Dr. Long, don't buy that stated outcome either.....Again.....why would Johnny "dream" of a Great Grandma he has never met? Why not dream he met Santa....or fairies....or GI Joe, (I am well into my 40's and don't know what characters kids relate to these days......)

I, like others have stated on this thread, would LOVE/WISH for there to be an "after-life" (I have been a reader at the NDERF website since early in the internet days, (I even sent in MY NDE years ago....). I used to be a "believer" in something outside ourselves, (and I still try to keep my mind open), but I started to get grand mal seizures a year ago and my entire perception of "consciousness" changed, (the ol' "I am awake one moment in time" and wake up 3 hours later with NO memory of those 3 hours at ALL....just BLANK SPACE....) but here is the kicker...during SOME of the seizures, I actually interact with others, (I may think it is 1985 and Reagan is president, but I am "aware"). I don't remember a THING after I "wake up". (Sorry a LITTLE off topic, but I did have a point to make...somehow....)

I have ALSO taken MANY kinds of drugs and chemicals in my lifetime. (I have taken Salvia, Ketamine, MDMA, '___' and MANY other means of psycho-active "illegal" drugs). I believe some of us are a little more "Earth bound" than others...maybe a chemical/electro deal within our brains that's different among all of us in individual ways....I just know that when my HUSBAND takes certain brain drugs HE leaves and goes somewhere else.....I, on the other hand, go somewhere INSIDE my brain...or inside someone else's, (I once, on Ketamine and MDMA, was able to see and describe EXACTLY what a group of people were feeling/seeing).

I know this is a dis-jointed response, but I want to end with this thought: I once read an interesting postulation about "god" (or Gods..or whatever); that whatever we believe in our minds to be true....IS TRUE....reality IS what we make of it....whether there is a "god" or not is immaterial.....why not just live the life you WANT, try not to step on other's reality too much....and just ENJOY LIFE in ALL its glory AND ugliness......it just IS WHAT IT IS, YA'LL d(-_-)b

(and by the way.....will ya'll little boys who like to argue semantics STOP PLEASE...and stop showing your ages by name calling and making fun of another's opinion....
this guy isn't an insult tool.......)

peace, ya'll

Doesn't surprise me ... however, i'm not sure it was the whole St. peter's heaven, but i wouldn't be surprised at all if indeed it was his great grandmother's soul!

I read this lovely little story on the news. I figured that there would be plenty of people on ATS trying to disprove it.

Personally, I believe the story. I also believe that anyone that is desperate to disprove it, is acting out of fear.

After being a lurker in ATS for over 12 years,the replies in this thread has forced me to create an account and post something.

Let me get this out.I am an atheist.I do not believe in the supernatural or anything like that.I would certainly would love to believe in some sort of afterlife and a relatively sane and good God and maybe there is but currently the tools within science are not there to fully understand that field.Talking to various professors in various fields of psychology ,genetics ,biology and medicine ,they all agreed that there are some stuff that science will never(or so during our time) explain.It does not mean,they do not exist.

Now,back on topic.I certainly do not have a problem if someone else wants to believe in some sort of afterlife. because honestly it is a win-win situation either way.Follow me here ;

Assumptions made : You are good person and the afterlife you are going is totally awesome .


1)There are only 2 possibilities ; There is some sort of afterlife or there is nothing.

2)If you die and go to some sort of afterlife,you win.

3) If you die and there isn't an afterlife,you also win.


Why?For the mind to fully comprehend the absolution of nothingness after death,it has to function during death to comprehend that nothingness.Obviously,as science dictates,when you die,your brain ceases to function and therefore you will never experience this nothingness(unless you get revived).Now think about it,you will never ever know there that is nothing after death.You will happily die with the belief that there is one when there isn't anything on the other side .You will never ever know and in that sense,you die in perfect comfort.


As for the arguments that the brain somehow invokes a biological and chemical response towards death,don't you think that would have some sort of evolutionary basis?Don't you think that actually opens up a whole new can of worms.Why would natural selection favor such a specific trait and if it did,would be under the assumption that animals also are able to have a deep understanding of the consciousness of death.That they are perhaps,undergo the same biological and chemical responses and experience the very same things that humans do?That animals would also somehow experience "a beam of light"?We know animals dream,so it is entirely possible.

I guess,we will never know.

reply to post by einherjar


I gotta say I appreciate your thinking, and yes, it somewhat of a win-win situation. Science has a very long way to go but, nothing is impossible.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Solomons
NDE's are a result of the body dying, the lack of oxygen and a specific mixture of chemical processes cause them. I have never seen any evidence to prove they are more than that and absolutely no explanation as to why most people have no such experiences, if floating off to magical land is what happens when you die then why does it not happen to everyone? I have a close friend that died and was resuscitated, he had no NDE...does he not have a soul?

Like i said, i believe it is a very specific mix of things that cause them hence not everyone experiences them.

And if it is a basic biological process...then I have the same question you do...why doesn't everyone have one?

If it is a chemical reaction of '___'...why doesn't everyone experience it? If the lack of oxygen causes this...why doesn't everyone experience it?

It doesn't seem like a very "scientific" explaination if only a few experience it, but it is a basic biological process.

I said a very "specific" set of chemical processes, just like alot of things have to be just right for a tsunami to occur the same applies to a person having an NDE. Not all earthquakes result in tsunamis and not all dying/dead people experience NDE's...alot of factors have to be just right. That's what i was trying to get across.

reply to post by Solomons


I honestly think NDE's are to bizarre for anyone to classify them. i think the only way we can really judge an NDE to experience it ourselves.

reply to post by einherjar


You have been a lurker for 12 years, and never bothered to join. Sure took you long enough

I haven't been here in awhile. I myself have been a lurker for about 10 years before I came on in. That would of made me 15.

We have a theory that there are more dimensions then ours. I think majority of physicist can agree that there are other dimensions. So why not heaven? What's so tyrannical about heaven? Now without getting into religion we can agree that a paradise dimension does exist. Why? Well if you believe in a different dimensional universe how come one of those universes be heaven. What if we have a paradise dimension? Do you want to be a part of that? well that's your choice, not mine. Now some Gnostics viewed that hell is on earth where we are now, but this too is problematic when we see personalities of monsters such as Hitler. What people considered to be true evil. What we have in ourselves is the concept of energy and movement. Everything in the universe is moving or can move by force. Force is pushed through energy. Energy is atoms and neutrons. What's beyond that within us? Probably the spirit, our soul.

What people forget is spirituality. You either care about your soul or not. This is what really differentiates agnostics and atheist . (not all, but some) Nothing is wrong with religion either. For example, not all Catholics are pedophile monsters. Just most of them. LOL that's a joke. Keep your spirit on something greater than a group of people meeting every sunday. Also, ATS sure does target the Christians far more than Islamist and Jewish. Beyond that nothing is ever talked against Buddhist and hindu.

Here's the thing, when people take down their barriers from certain religions you will start absorbing all religions within the world to create something special that will help you through your journey of this life.

Now this NDE doesn't surprise me. Once you understand whatever you believe that all possibilities are truly endless. I've heard of NDE's who felt like they were being dragged to Hell. Is it real? Why would I put my opinion on a website that scrutinizes peoples opinions? I've seen the pattern before.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Jordan River]

reply to post by Revolution-2012

atheist nuts

???

You have that back to front mate.

Who's the bigger 'nut', one who claims to love an invisible deity, they have never met, who they are willing to kill and dies for, or someone who...doesn't?

Yeah, definitely the wrong way around.

This one time, when I was dieing, I do remember seeing this white light!
I was junked out on 2 panthrax whistles and being pumped full of morphine, After an L-wicked-O car accident!
Just for a second I was able to focus and what I saw blew my mind....
...........the roof of the ambulance.

and here is me dieing in hospital....
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d44f83e12671.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4f9896bdb6bf.jpg[/atsimg]

.....maybe I just wasn't dieing enough.

Originally posted by Jordan River
***snip***
We have a theory that there are more dimensions then ours. I think majority of physicist can agree that there are other dimensions. So why not heaven?***snip***

I'm with you here.

What is so sad about most religions is that they reserve us a seat in heaven if we believe in this or that deity.

What would make sense is that a seat is reserved because of our actions towards our fellow creatures, NOT who or what we believe to be the Top Dog.

reply to post by HolgerTheDane

Heaven could be like a big auditorium. As you enter, provided your ticket is punched, an announcement is made by St. Peter (?).
"Welcome _______, please take a seat with your fellow Christians in section 4 to your right as we begin orientation."

Originally posted by Unity_99
Also 3 hours of a heart stopping there is no '___'. Sorry, that on doesnt apply to nde's and has been misconstrued. Brains don't function that way when they shut down.

Well. That's ruled out so we might as well assume he went to heaven, a theory with absolutely no corroborating evidence but it's nice so we'll assume it's right until someone can disprove it, which is impossible to do, so therefore heaven is real. Got it?

Also, you're assuming he had the hallucination 3 hours in rather than a lot sooner. The brain being deprived of oxygen is a euphoric experience - that's what people get out of huffing chemicals or doing whip-its. What the difference between those chemicals and the brain being deprived of oxygen via drowning?

[edit on 11-4-2010 by andrewh7]

Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by Solomons

 

I honestly think NDE's are to bizarre for anyone to classify them. i think the only way we can really judge an NDE to experience it ourselves.

Well, go throw yourself off a bridge into an icy river and let us know what happened.

Originally posted by spearhead
reply to post by SiKFury

 

Hell would be described as being reborn on this god forsaken rock! Heaven would be anything but...

Hell would be exactly like this world. Suffering is pointless without hope and the objects of your desire held out in front of you just out of reach.

reply to post by andrewh7


Man what’s with the hate speech throw you off a bridge and let us know what happens. Just because his beliefs are different than yours you shouldn’t write stuff like that. ATS is about exchanging ideas not bashing on them.