U.S. Marine ready for killing Americans - Popular idea with the Left

I apologize if I am restating some things that have already been said, but I haven't had time to read all of the posts. I would also like to apoligize if I offend a member of the military. These are just opinions and DO NOT apply to everyone.
My thoughts are that, while many military personel would probably kill a rebel, they probably wouldn't kill an innocent civilian. They need a workforce to keep the infrastructure of the country moving, and the civilians are the workforce. Someone, sorry I'm forgetting the name, mentioned that the military has hurt civilians in the past; the bombing of Hiroshima is one example. They didn't have much to lose in those situations. If they were to kill American civilians their reputation would be hurt, in turn helping the rebellion.
I beleive that, in the case of a civil war, the rebels would be killed or captured to try and "convince" the average American he or she should forget about aiding the rebellion.

reply to post by harrytuttle

U.S. Marine ready for killing Americans - Popular idea with the Left

WTF? Can you people even read? This Liberal Blog is commenting on a "alleged marine" who is talking AGAINST the idea of the military doing this -- but fearing that SOMEONE is trying to provoke it. I didn't read many posts hating on the military. No many posts FOR a civil war, or any posts NOT for the Constitution -- it's basically the same sort of speculation we have here of "what if this happened?" People don't know, they don't trust, and so there is speculation.

Or is this some sort of propaganda designed to put fear into the citizenry?

If he is so concerned about defending the Constitution, why doesn't he get up off his butt and remove the criminal politicians and bankers out Washington D.C.???

Maybe or maybe it isn't Propaganda to scare the citizenry. I've heard the same topics HERE ON ATS. Then you mention "Oath Keepers." Who have an oath to a Constitution that they don't seem to even understand. This group, doesn't think there is a WORRY about an armed conflict? They PROMISE to defend the Constitution and "hoo aah!" train with guns to do it? So a fan of the Oath Keepers is all concerned that the LEFT is promoting the idea that the Military is going to be used on US soil? I don't get it -- you didn't know that the Posse Comitatus act got nullified by the Republicans a a few years ago? He withheld Federal aide to Louisiana in order to take over the National Guard -- and instead, they sent in Blackwater to defend the homes of Rich folks, take away people's guns, and --- hey, didn't you notice that this is a privately held MILITARY that even has tanks operating on American soil?

We've ALREADY had troops on American soil and Posse Comitatus already has a loophole that was put in by Republicans to "keep us safe." It just wasn't our Marines.

Who the heck started paying money to a private gang of thugs ten times more than our military? They've got people who worked for Pinoche, and other fascists around the world. You didn't notice that they aren't all American?

Maybe the Dems and the Repugs are playing us. But how is this PEOPLE of the Left persuasion -- or should I say, anyone to the LEFT of Bush, which is everyone from Nixon to Stalin to Jesus. and 70% of the country.


There were good points, that a bunch of back-woods militia groups who think GUNS are going to keep them free, are very deluded and wouldn't last ten minutes against a team of marines or a UAV taking them out from 2 miles a way. You think the Iraqis with tanks and limited range anti-aircraft guns were a bunch of wimps getting picked off in the middle of the night in thousands from an enemy they couldn't even see? Even after we spent ten years disarming that country -- they still had more firepower than any militia group.

There is no possibility, of "tough American patriots" standing against any well-equipped modern military in a fair fight. The ONLY thing you could do, is fight EXACTLY the way that Iraqi and Afghanis opposed to US occupation fight; blending in with the populace, and creating improvised explosives, and wrecking things when nobody is looking.

Seriously. All I've heard from the Right is "let's throw rocks in windows and make some of these Democrats who voted for Socialized Medicine something to worry about." Or they are talking about Succession in Texas -- because Obama isn't giving ANOTHER huge tax break to the so very important rich people.

The LEFT, has been pissed about Blackwater -- and PRIVATE military groups.

This entire talk of CIVIL WAR, is in response to what is actually being said by ELECTED LEADERS of the Conservatives in this country -- it isn't from the Fringe, even as the tanning bed victim John Boehner's half-assed "stop it you guys" lame attempt to settle things down.

Liberals and Progressives do NOT think military-men are the problem -- they think their MISSIONS are the problem, and sending them through ten tours of duty is likely to warp people and ruin their family life. By the time some of this young men and women get out of their war, some of the babies they left will be teenagers. And for what?

Here's two comments I found right off the bat;

I hope with everything I have that we won't descend into civil war...

But if we do, then I'm glad our military men and women will be on the side of the Constitution.

Because that's where I am.

K&R

then

written as scripted monologue
the first time i saw it was twenty years ago in an 'x for dummies' book
the bs of such writing is prevalent with propagandists and almost unbearable for me
the 'we will crush you' message is very clear, though
this is not an authentic personal opinion, it is unofficial official
still, i am concerned by the military's concern

>> Not exactly bolstering the original posters paranoia about the Left, meanwhile we should ignore the rhetoric of violence and this constant theme of "persecution" by the Right? No solution but complaining of "socialist taxes" when their taxes went DOWN on anyone making less than $200,000? If we want to take solutions for the RIGHT seriously, they need to actually propose something that they haven't already done that WORKED.

I think if everyone gets a fair shot in this country and a good education -- that's a far better prevention against uprising, than dropping $100,000 bombs on a city in Iraq. Whatever someone "worries about the military doing" -- it isn't as bad as what has been done. I personally don't think our military, would act against America -- but a private Military, or a group that is more committed to some theocratic ideal is a bigger concern.


>> The economy is bad. Bush and Congress screwed up the Constitution with the Patriot Act. Our media spews nonsense. The Bankers changed the laws to make outrageous profits, then instead of changing course when it looked doomed to failure; relied on their political ties to get bailed out. The Fed just printed money and threw it at the wealthy - while everyone freaked about Congress, not realizing it was the sideshow.

Remember, that it's the DEREGULATION that cost us more than the social programs. We haven't had anyone actually to the LEFT on Nixon since Jimmy Carter in the White House. So, why are we once again, looking Leftward for the problems and trying to fix it by moving to the Right?

I don't think EITHER side, Left or Right, would tolerate a military occupation. But I've heard the Right freak and want to send tree-hugger activists who slash some tires to GitMo. This is compared to armed militias in the woods, training with automatic weapons and spouting rhetoric of armed conflict. ACORN and Greenpeace are so dang "dangerous!" After they are vanquished, I'm sure it's going to be putting a stop to Michael Moore and his mistreatment of waiters.

Which group is hating and fearing the military and who is the real threat of creating an excuse for martial law?
Ted Nugent for President!
While I agree that cops are getting more violent, and need to use a lot more diplomacy and stop going after drug offenders... shooting them isn't going to REDUCE the violence, nor clean up corruption.

If you don't like the Establishment -- then a lot of liberals will agree with you. But if you think OBAMA is the main problem, you haven't been paying attention. He may or may not be THE solution. Look for common interests with the Left.

However, the violence is having some positive effects; The Democrats are giving up on "bi-partisanship" and realizing Republicans will never like them. And the media is starting to actually call Conservatives on their BS.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


just a thumbs up man for actually getting to the bottom of this and not just qouting un-informed beleifs...

reply to post by Dock9

You opened my eyes a bit. Sometimes we take for granted that others
think like we do. Wrong !!! I don't think the creators of the constitution
intended for the people to be at the mercy of their own government.

Originally posted by rick1
reply to post by samhouston1886

 

I was behind RP 100% in the last election and have been to tea party rallies in the north and south in this country. Sorry but I have no respect for someone who tells me what I'm thinking as well as a large group of other Americans.

Well it seems I was not talking to you then.


You don't have to respect me, you don't even know me and the same goes vice versa.

I am just saying that many of the folks in the tea party are the same people that laughed at and mocked Dr. Paul when we where trying to get him the nomination.
They come in, take over with Fox money and start running things.
Now they want to "Save America" by inciting fear and violence.
Imagine, the tea parties news of choice is Fox!


They are phony and they are hypocrites who did not care what went on as long as they had plenty of credit and shopping.

Treason on 9/11? no problem! Dead Iraqi kids? get out of here! pedophile politicians? Awesome! Black guy in Office to manage the end stages of the end of American empire? Time to buy guns and get ready for Armageddon!

The outrage is too late, the economic punishment has started and nothing will stop it, I have tried to wake people up since 2002 and they don't care, I bet you they will now.

Yes we are slaves but it did not start with BHO and all this bullcrap posturing is going to lead to a very ugly situation.

You may not respect me but you will have to respect the prick with the machine gun that's running down the street in a striker.

Originally posted by Solasis
Um. Maybe the thread is very popular because they think that it's something important to talk about and look at?

..... People don't flag threads just because they think it is something important to talk about, and look at....

If you flag/star a thread it is because you agree with it's fundamental message.

I know of few people who would star, and flag a thread "because they think it is important" and btw, sorry to tell you that the BS that Marine, or Marine wannabe wrote is nothing more than vitriolic, nonsensical BS, it is not an important thread or message.

Originally posted by Solasis
Anyway, it seems like this is actually a real concern. If civil WAR is declared, the rebel armies -- and even if they are in the right, that's what they are, rebel armies -- will have declared war on the military. So they're automatically fair game. Because it's war. I think that's probably the bulk of what he means.

The Marine, or Marine wannabe doesn't know what the heck he is talking about, he is not defending the Constitution by shooting on American civilians, and shooting/killing children, which he mentions "imagine dragging the body of your young child".....

Originally posted by Solasis
.............
if you're prepared to condemn those (as I am), only then can you condemn this idea.

Sorry, but now you are making a red herring..... Americans, or anyone else doesn't have to condem other wars in order to condem this.... that is a very ignorant thing to say in your part.

Originally posted by Solasis
I think this is sick. but I also think it's nothing new, and nothing shocking (even though it should be), and that it's not the (alleged) marine's fault, but rather the fault of the military machine. And it's certainly not reflecting poorly on the liberals at that website, at least not as you've posted it.
............

Yes, it does reflect poorly of the almost 200, and probably more now, Liberals/Progressives who flagged the post of that Marine, or Marine wannabe....

The post of that Marine, or Marine wannabe sounds very much like a post a Communist/Socialist revolutionary would post. The hard core Communists/Socialist revolutionaries adore the idea of murdering civilians, and they claim it is for a good cause, and the post of whoever this Marine, or Marine wannabe is, seems to reflect that idea.

This kind of reminds me of the video from the 80s of the FBI agent who infiltrated the "weather underground" which is/was very leftist to the point of being Communists. These people were discussing how to murder millions of Americans who would not accept their "revolution". This is what the Socialist elites want, and unfortunately we have many Americans accepting the indoctrination, and brainwashing from the Communists, who now call themselves "Progressive"...

We have a government in power which have labeled most Americans as "possible terrorists", and they are already going after some of the groups of Americans who would try to resist them, and their takeover of the U.S., as we can see by the ongoing raids on some U.S. militias which started on Saturday, and are still ongoing.

These people never bring progress, they bring death, and suffering.

I am thinking these people, and this government will be asking websites to give the names of anyone who "is anti-government, anti-Obama, anti-New World order", and I wonder if they haven't done already so. Just a thought.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


Where exactly are you getting that from? The original, complete post was removed, and there is only a portion of what he wrote, plus the answers from the rest of the Liberals, none of which have ever read the Constitution, nor the Bills of Rights within it....

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

The hard core Communists/Socialist revolutionaries adore the idea of murdering civilians, and they claim it is for a good cause,

murder millions of Americans who would not accept their "revolution". This is what the Socialist elites want, and unfortunately we have many Americans accepting the indoctrination, and brainwashing from the Communists, who now call themselves "Progressive"...

I am thinking these people, and this government will be asking websites to give the names of anyone who "is anti-government, anti-Obama, anti-New World order", and I wonder if they haven't done already so. Just a thought.

Do you seriously beleive these things your saying? Im sorry but killing people is NEVER good for ANY cause....and i think you'll find a VERY hard time finding anyone that disagrees with me, regardless of political view point.

And whats this New World Order you keep talking about??? oh you mean the "global government", "them"???

come on, seriously....

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst



Thank you for your part in Denying Ignorance.

For those still in need of the update to the original write, go here.

reply to post by harrytuttle


So... the tea bag bunch going to rallies with guns out in the open, burning members of Congress in effigy and carrying signs advocating violence are red blooded "M'urkans but it's the left that will REALLY kill you?

Are you serious with this stuff?

In response to the marines being able to turn their guns on citizens, I have read that is why other nationaliites are here, training for such a time. lolamae

Let me say this as a family memeber of a career marine, of whom I have had this exact conversation with and he somewhat corroberates with the other marine, though he is very clear on the circumstances. He said that the military would ONLY turn its gun barrels on Americans IF they declare war in the name of anarchy or a NWO. So, if anything, this woud be fascists and communists within the country. He also said that the majority of military men and women have ZERO love for the federal government and much love for the American people, after all we are their families. There is a reason the fine men and women of the military swear to uphold and defend the people and the CONSTITUTION, not the government. This means, as he explains, that if the American people bring claims of treason, tyranny, or a disregard for the constitution as the main governing law (as in today), then the military would act accordingly, without government knowledge, to restore order in America and constitutional law to the land.

Our forefathers saw this and that is why they made government so weak (at least it was) at the federal level. The constitution gives the true power to the people and state governments, not the federal government. If you read the constitution the federal government was designated to be nothing more than a glorified CPA to the country, it's military, its infrastructure and dealt with international affairs pertaining to the US. Other than this it really does not even have the power to mandate federal laws NOT agreed upon and presented by the states. This opens a whole new can of worms so I will leave that for another thread.

So know this, we do not need to have a revolution, our forefathers gave us power so we would not have to. All we need do is follow the constitution, vote those in power out, and if things get really bad, trust me when I say the military WILL come to the aid of the American people and will not take orders from a corrupt government. He told me the rumor is many top brass in the military are now watching our government like hawks, and he is sure plans are being made, if necessary, to oust the current administrative and elected body and hold special emergency elections to replace the defunct governing body. We are not alone, and I am sure that this "marine" was trying to make this clear without getting himself in hot water. No doubt we the people would likely not stand long against our own military, my brother in law confirmed this, but he was very explicit when he said it won't be American citizens or civilians they target, it will be angry nutjobs with guns who could hurt innocents. I say let the military hear our cries because Washington is ignoring them, and we the people need and love them; they are our families!!!. And for any military personel reading this post I assure you that we know you are defending the constitution and we, the civilian militias, are at your side. Not a shot need be fired to restore order in this great country.

reply to post by Angus123


I am not a fan of the President but I agree with you 100%, where was the tea party when Bush wrecked the place?

Oh that's right they were out shopping, laughing at the poor and demanding the death or incarceration of any and all who disagreed with their daddy Bush.

I am a huge supporter of Freedom and our Constitution, the tea party is a bunch of Bush lovers who are mad that its not daddy's choice in the WH.

They kicked Ron Paul out and brought in Glen Beck and Sara Palin, is it any wonder they are a disaster?

Tea party fans, get ready to reap what you sowed for 8 years!

I'm a Marine, and talk of killing American civilians has never once come up in my 3 years in the military. Were at war ladies and gentleman. Why the # would any of us be focused on the potential for a war within the United States? That's never going to happen.

The Marine that said this is probably some E1-E3 boot-as-# POG who's looking for attention. Don't worry people, he doesn't speak for the entire Corps.

Originally posted by endtimer
This person makes it sound like there would be military personnel on
every street corner in America. If there was a civil war in the US, it
would most likely be everywhere. Now, just how many military do we
have in our Army and Marines? Enough for a few in each town in the
US. How many towns and cities are there? There isn't enough military
in all branches of the service to control this country. I hope it doesn't
come to a conflict between the military and the citizens, but it could with
all the peed off people here. And I believe there are about 125 million guns
in this country owned by the private citizen with probably enough people
to man all those guns. The military might have bigger guns and bullets,
but they could never control this entire country. Just my guess. I hope we
don't find out though.

The problem would be NATO and foreign troops brought in to service the war. You know "UN Peace keeping " troops which have been training here for years.

I never did like marines

Originally posted by harrytuttle
reply to post by Solasis

 

Dude, if I posted every post from that thread that liked what the Marine said, it would be an ugly mess. Just click the link and read for yourself how those posters grovel in approval over the disgusting threats that Marine made.

The article is a threat of violence which injects an approval message that it's okay for the U.S. Military to go to war with it's own citizens.

You and the Marine seem to miss the point that it's impossible for there to actually be a Civil War in this country, because there is only ONE standing army. This isn't a north/south deal.

Any sort of attack by the U.S. Military against citizens would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution itself, a self contradiction by the U.S. Marine that seems to evaded you. Oh, the irony.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by harrytuttle]

If citizens take up arms against the Constitutionally elected government of the United States, then that makes them enemies of the Constitution. And this marine's oath requires him to defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

What a bunch of whiny posers I see now. Everyone's gung-ho for a revolution...but OMG DON'T HURT US!

You don't get to have a revolution without bloodshed. And the revolutionaries are the ones who shed the most blood.

So if these "revolutionary patriots" are so worried about their personal well-being, they should just STFU and GBTW.

reply to post by harrytuttle


Irresponsible statement on the Marines part, he forgets there are more armed citizens in this country than there is Armed Forces. He also forgets a statement like that could easily make all Marines a target by an armed populace. He also forgets if he is ever identified on the street in a Marine uniform with orders of containing the populace he would easily become the primary target of any uprising. This Marines big problem is he needs his butt kicked and I'm sure there are many who would do it.

reply to post by Boomer1941


I just want to dismiss your preconseptions of armed warfare. If a civillian group even entertained thoughts about a battle with trained, specialist military groups, they would be annihilated.
Im not saying that what he said is right or wrong, just that its true. If there was a group of revolutionaries attempting any armed uprising, it would be the job of the armed forces to quell said uprising on behalf of the constitutionally ellected government...and I tend to think it would be a very one-sided battle.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by OLDMATE]

Originally posted by harrytuttle

Now I 'd like to disperse a myth here - many of you think that US military would not fight civilians. I can't speak for all, but in my case - the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians. The moment you attack the constitution, you're now enemies of that constitution. And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so. And trust me, I'm not alone. I hope some of you heed my words and cool the rhetoric and focus on achieving your goals diplomatically instead of physically. It would never want to receive a frag order to Maryland, or North Dakota, or Texas, but it is an order I will follow no matter how much it pains me to do so.

(emphasis mine)

So ATS, I ask of you, how twisted is this US Marine? He thinks killing Americans is "defending the Constitution"? Hasn't he ever heard of Oath Keepers?

[edit on 27-3-2010 by harrytuttle]

What confuses me is that you qoute him in your OP and then seem to completely disregard what he is saying and instead claim...

"He thinks killing Americans is defending the constitution"

If a sub-set of extremists decide that thier will and opinions trump democracy and our justice system and decide through violence to overthrow our democratic system in favor of thier narrow belief system...well that is Al-Quada, the Taliban....Everyone is a "citizen" someplace....

As a marine he swore to defend the constituion of the United States against all enemies both FORIEGN AND DOMESTIC.

If in some far fetched apocolyptic fantasy a fringe native extremist organization within our citizenry gains enough momentum and opts to forgo the democratic process and instead chooses to impose their "interpretation" of democracy via a violent overthrow of our democratically elected government ...well again...that is Al-Quada, the Taliban et al. and I'd be right beside this Marine in defending the USA.

And that has nothing to do with politics...left, right, Bush, Obama...the wheels turn, but once you choose to tear down the fundementals of Democracy itself through violent means...It's not about politics it's about democracy.