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U.S. Marine ready for killing Americans - Popular idea with the Left

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posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


man, you got some good points, but my bottom line in this debate is this:

1.) the US would have to pull out of 2 wars to come home to fight the foil hat brigade, and bring their full extent of resources, and there would be a huge percentage of dissent from soldiers going awol refusing to fight civilians, and probably siding with the civilians. SO, the would HAVE to enlist blackwater type troops to do that job.
2.) It would not be the same grade of battle they are used to now. The foil hat brigade would be much more sophisticated with better technologies and more resources than insurgents in 3rd world countries.
3.) only 4% of the civilians took up arms against the entire british military in the revolutionary war.

I think you may be slightly underestimating the tin foil hat brigadeers.

* typo

[edit on 28-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]




posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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I won't comment on the issue that is this a real marine's opinion, propaganda tactics or ufo landings...

However i'd like to say that come to the bottom line, this does not surprise me a bit. Just look how blindly the 'marines' have followed the orders to invade totally innocent countries (iraq, afganistan..) why would things be any different, when you are ordered to shoot the civil war TERRORISTS in your own country?

Wars will not stop until the pawns grow some backbone and refuse to go to war just because someone orders them to. Armies/military/militia should be a purely defensive force under voluntary command. That means that everyone decides for themselves if they will comply an 'order'. If they do, they selves will be responsible if it was an unlawful one, not only their superiors.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by 12.13.2012
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


man, you got some good points, but my bottom line in this debate is this:

1.) the US would have to pull out of 2 wars to come home to fight the foil hat brigade, and bring their full extent of resources, and there would be a huge percentage of dissent from soldiers going awol refusing to fight civilians, and probably siding with the civilians. SO, the would HAVE to enlist blackwater type troops to do that job.
2.) It would not be the same grade of battle they are used to now. The foil hat brigade would be much more sophisticated with better technologies and more resources than insurgents in 3rd world countries.
3.) only 4% of the civilians took up arms against the entire british military in the revolutionary war.

I think you may be slightly underestimating the tin foil hat brigadeers.

* typo

[edit on 28-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]


1.

I honestly think if "tin foil hat brigades" go insurgent it won't be at the very least until after this November. More realistically it would be after the November 2012 elections. I'm kind of anticipating violence at that time.

Combat operations in Iraq end in September, personnel will be drawn down to 50,000. 100,000 personnel will be in Afghanistan by December. So thats 150,000 personnel in theater.

Now here's how many troops we have:
Over 1.4 million active duty forces
Over 1.4 million reserve forces

Thats over 2.8 million personnel. Thats far more than enough to quell any insurrection even after November. Don't forget to add in law enforcement and private military operators.

2.

What resources specifically? Cell phones and GPS would be more of a liability. Insurgents overseas already have nightvision and infrared devices. They also commonly use GPS and cell phones.

Privately owned weapons, like those from Bushmaster and DPMS, would be tracked down. Same with sights from Aimpoint and Trijicon. Insurgents would be forced to rely on suppliers from Mexico for arms and ammo. Eventually, most of the high tech arms would have to be replaced by cheap Russian products.

They would quickly realize what a logistical nightmare it is.

3.

The entire British military was not in North America during the Revolutionary war. The comparison isn't adequate. Had the colonists had to take on the full might of the British military they would of lost like the Boers did.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by harrytuttle
 




In the UK now, apparently, severe penalties are imposed in cases where people falsely claim a military connection. Wonder if it's the same in the US?


Here in the USA, it's a felony to impersonate military personnel.
Line two.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by SyphonX
 


Because he is a marine; even though not all marines are bad but most of them are pugnacious in nature and do not have the same level of modesty as relatively peaceful rational people. Some of them just want to see blood and shoot guns which is why they join, their not thinking about genuine peace. They lack perception on viewing the world and are backwards when it comes to whats best.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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The citizens can be armed to the teeth and even hold two guns in each hand but to fight the U.S. Military, it's a no brainer. It's also a fairy tale and even comforting to believe that one could resist the military. It is to easy to forget that we were so eager to get involved with the war on terror these past few years. We were so proud when it was them who dragged their children to safety as they were being killed. While we slept safely in our beds, we never struggled with the notion that it could be us. Now, that threat is real. I aplogize to all who believe that their 30 guns in their basement will be of any help. The military will crush any resistence regardless of how big this malitia could be. Just like in the past, their spirit to fight will be lost in their agony of defeat. The resistence will be crushed, the military will defeat you very, very easily. Put down your arms and watch your children grow or you will have to burry them.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


14 million guns legally purchased in the US in 2009 alone. US population in 2009: 305 million (minus the 2-3 million for the military, even if no troops defect.) is a little more that 300 million. 4% of that is still 12 million. If only half of that amount join up with the foil hat brigade, thats still 6 million (double the military numbers) and armed to the teeth. plus, alot of them are ex-military with as much, or more, training than the troops the military would imploy. I still dont think they would walk away from the industrial military complex warmachine watering hole, they just cant up and unplug like that. They would be forced to rent blackwater troops or foreign armies to even step up to the plate, and that would only grow the foil hat brigades' numbers.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by iCallBS2
 


I dont think the foil hat brigade will take defeatists.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If a group of people got together and decided to forcibly overthrow the government or start a civil war with other Americans, I would expect the military to fight them, if given the order from their commander in chief...If you think revolutionaries killing Americans is to defend the Constitution and the other side killing Americans is in direct opposition of the Constitution, I've got news for you.


Benevolent, you are one of the few people here making any sense.

Those cheerleading a civil war while attacking the Marine for saying he would defend the country against their violent coup are hypocrites and don't seem to be suffering from the slightest bit of cognitive dissonance. Somehow, they think that a coup and killing fellow Americans in the process is defending the Constitution. Yet they think those defending the duly elected government and fellow Americans is anti-Constitutional, criminal and treasonous. I shudder to think what the country would look like if such people got in power; we would resemble the worst dictatorships in history.



[edit on 28-3-2010 by DoomsdayRex]



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


If you cant tell, people have had enough. They are going to eventually come to a conclusion that encompasses the reality that politicians are liars and have irrepairably damaged the constitution, and that voting is useless because its rigged.. If the military sides with political allies, then that is just the way it will have to be. the amer!can will not be quietly ushered into the night or "quelled".

** and keep in mind, there are going to be groups like Oathkeepers there, to make it really even teams. and the minimum number of amer!cans willing to battle outnumbers the military available by double.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]

[edit on 28-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by 12.13.2012
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


14 million guns legally purchased in the US in 2009 alone. US population in 2009: 305 million (minus the 2-3 million for the military, even if no troops defect.) is a little more that 300 million. 4% of that is still 12 million. If only half of that amount join up with the foil hat brigade, thats still 6 million (double the military numbers) and armed to the teeth. plus, alot of them are ex-military with as much, or more, training than the troops the military would imploy. I still dont think they would walk away from the industrial military complex warmachine watering hole, they just cant up and unplug like that. They would be forced to rent blackwater troops or foreign armies to even step up to the plate, and that would only grow the foil hat brigades' numbers.


Most of them are handguns, which are useless in real combat. In addition to that firearms have to be maintained and serviced. Not that many people are going to be able to maintain and service them. Which is why I said people are going to end up turning to Mexican suppliers.

We may have 300 million plus people, but only around 120 million are fit for military service. The vast majority of people are not going to join a tin foil hat brigade. Most of these groups are going to end up shooting each other more than anyone else. Most Americans are not going to endanger their wives and children either. People are going to be furious over their lives being disrupted by anti government militants. There will be so many informants and infiltrators it won't be funny.

We would have a draft before we even thought about NATO.

I see so many mistakes being made so far by potential militants. One is the bloodlust and aggression. They will have zero moral high ground. You have to understand, war isn't won on the battlefield. Wars are won in the hearts and minds. If they don't have the moral highground, they have already lost before even the first shot is fired.

Liberty requires selfless sacrifices for the moral highground. If the other side isn't willing to be peacefully martyred, then they are selfish tyrants filled with bloodlust. They must be willing to offer mercy to maintain and hold the moral highground. This is why any insurgents have already lost.





[edit on 28/3/10 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


again, you have some good points, but amer!cans will not just lay over and get raped. yes, alot are unfit...but alot are not unfit. yes, lots of handguns, but a decent percentage are rifles and shotguns. the foil hat brigade would most definitely draw from past engagements to use the factors that wage a successful campaign: rat tunnels from vietnam, trench machine guns from the nazi's, and if it came down to it, probably I.E.D.'s and kamikaze. moral highground is a factor, but in other countries Im sure alot of people dont see the US as "moral highground" and they are doin ok with their insurgency. I think if that happens, you and I both will be surprised by how successful the foil hat brigade can be...



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 


Marines are hard guys, many convicts searching for something useful to do with their lives. This guy isn't alone, I bet hes got 2 allies
As for the Army, I can tell you they'd never do it. So many are young, determined and passionate about helping their country, but when it comes to shooting Americans, no way. Most of the military doesn't even support Obama anyway.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by 12.13.2012
If you cant tell, people have had enough. They are going to eventually come to a conclusion that encompasses the reality that politicians are liars and have irrepairably damaged the constitution, and that voting is useless because its rigged...


Every dictatorship born on the corpse of a republic or democracy has used the same rhetoric and excuses you are. There is little doubt among the sane and reasonable about what those cheerleading civil war actually want.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by 12.13.2012
again, you have some good points, but amer!cans will not just lay over and get raped...


So then what makes you think they will accept a violent revolution, coup and dictatorship dominated by the likes of you?



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:51 AM
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It's probably some punk who's not even a Marine. I don't know about you all, but most of the grunts I've ever come into contact with (those in the infantry especially) mainly lean to the right, and sure the hell aren't 'progressive.'

If it is a Marine who wrote that, I can bet he's outnumbered by his fellow Marines who do not feel the same way he does.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


yea, dude, Im runnin the whole show. you got me. its my opinion alone that is going to shape america, and Im putting it on ATS for your approval first. people are going to do what people are going to do. you can slam me for putting hypothetical situations out there, but at the end of the day your sheltered little view isnt going to decide anything either kid.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by 12.13.2012
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


again, you have some good points, but amer!cans will not just lay over and get raped. yes, alot are unfit...but alot are not unfit. yes, lots of handguns, but a decent percentage are rifles and shotguns. the foil hat brigade would most definitely draw from past engagements to use the factors that wage a successful campaign: rat tunnels from vietnam, trench machine guns from the nazi's, and if it came down to it, probably I.E.D.'s and kamikaze. moral highground is a factor, but in other countries Im sure alot of people dont see the US as "moral highground" and they are doin ok with their insurgency. I think if that happens, you and I both will be surprised by how successful the foil hat brigade can be...


Thats the thing though, people are going to have to peacefully demonstrate and protest to have the moral highground.

The Boston Massacre was instrumental in starting the American revolution. True patriots have to be willing to give their lives in a peaceful demonstration. It is the blood of the innocent that would galvanize a just revolution.

None of that other stuff matters, not lessons from the Vietcong or anything else. They draw first blood and they will be the aggressors and criminals. Just from your descriptions I can tell any insurgents are going to kill each other. Some are going to be moderate and others more radical.

If they can't offer selfless sacrifice on the altar of liberty, all they will offer is tyranny. They will represent a clear danger to the US Constitution and the Republic. If they can't conduct themselves with honor and integrity they are not lawful combatants. I, and many others, will do everything in our power to preserve the US Constitution and the Republic from those who selfishly refuse to conduct themselves as patriots.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by 12.13.2012
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


If they can't conduct themselves with honor and integrity they are not lawful combatants.

^^ It seems like the american people have seen enough of how the politicians and corporate govt. has conducted themselves. If it is honor and integrity, then the bar has been set pretty low, so I dont think the american people will have to work to hard to out-do that. I keep hearing this Thomas Jefferson quote about: "the tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of tyrants as well as patriots." I can imagine that will become more true here in the US as time goes on...



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by 12.13.2012
yea, dude, Im runnin the whole show. you got me. its my opinion alone that is going to shape america, and Im putting it on ATS for your approval first. people are going to do what people are going to do. you can slam me for putting hypothetical situations out there, but at the end of the day your sheltered little view isnt going to decide anything either kid.


I said the likes of you, meaning people who think like you. There is little doubt what people like you really want.

You call me sheltered, while you sit at a computer routing for a civil war, having no idea what modern civil war looks like. Consider the Congo, Rwanda, Sudan, Darfur, Yugoslavia, Chechnya, then tell me if that is what you want for America.



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