A Step Forward for Law Enforcement, and Even Some on ATS will be Happy!

reply to post by DomhainGràdh



Uh, and like you're not doing the same thing by listing your own individual experience? Grow up already. Maybe you should consider counseling.

This protects the police officer and will back them up when the video/audio helps them. But will the video/audio be available to the citizen, for review, when requested?

I really like the idea, but the video/audio has to be available to both parties for it to address the type of scenario that the ATS community has been so hot about. I just don't see how this stops police abuses unless we understand our rights (if any) to the video/audio.

I've seen this system a while ago, and while its great, which it is, as it'll show when active, the complete view of a chain of events, which could spare a lot of grief officers face if wrongly accused of things. The one downside I seen was that it isn't a fulltime system, as in the officers can turn them on/off. But to play advocate, I guess having control of its operation is good.

Civilians don't want to be watched 24/7, hense screamers of no big brother.

proof that cops aren't too bright: They all actually want this....LOL.....this thing picks up audio and video? I predict the police will will be sued and fired into oblivion within 6 months of using these things...

and thus begins the integration with man and machine...

only a matter of time before the proteus cells give consciousness to machine and they see us as a threat and kill us all...

we cant just create life when we are destroying it all around us, that, is a NO NO!

No Wikipedia entries for this device or it's company. I'd like to know more before i comment further.

Originally posted by KANE OG
No Wikipedia entries for this device or it's company. I'd like to know more before i comment further.

Then you MAY wanna go to the companies actual website provided on page one. Just a suggestion...

Originally posted by richierich
reply to post by highlyoriginal

 

If you are so weak that you allowed a COP to give you legal advice in a court you are too easily led. you should have asked for a LAWYER and stood your ground. The cop CANNOT simply walk up to a prosecutor on court day and ask for a more serious charge than given just to intimidate you...no way. The cop did not show that busted you...in my state that means a dismissal, automatically. No cop can testify for another that was not there, the cop bluffed you and got you to plead...they would have LOST the case if you had told that cop to stick it and gotten an attorney.

NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER believe what a cop says...especially about legal matters. it is like going to the Godfather for advice on how to violate OMERTA !! Would you accept advice on your health from a truck driver? Then why in hell trust a COP to tell the truth? you got GAMED and bluffed...too bad...likley you would have won...thats why the cop didn't show and had his pal intimidate and lie to you. Typical for cops, which is a sick fact but one we must always remember:

Cops do NOT tell the truth to defendants!! NEVER!!

I'm not an idiot, it was not even court it was a hearing since I was pleading not guilty. It was all over a fine I didn't deserve.

I had to plead guilty because if for any chance the other charge went through from the DA I'd have a parole violation - and I really don't want to end up back in jail.

And no one gets a lawyer for fighting a ticket... not to mention I am in so much dept that I couldn't afford it anyway. Also, another cop can come in place of another, however if no one shows up then you're off the hook. There's a difference.

I'm surprised no one brought up the idea that these will be used during riots, etc. to catch more people on film to arrest and so fourth.
Just picture G20 with these nifty lil' things..
Just throwin' that idea out there.

Unfortunately what will happen in some cases is the video that shows the other side will disappear. This will be used as a public intimidation tactic showing police criminal behavior as a good thing. It won't be used to address whether there was ever a crime in the first place. It will only show what serves the interests of TPTB, though it will appear to do otherwise when needed to sell the idea.

reply to post by Mr. Suave


Thanks for proving my point in a clearly egotistical manner.

Get a grip of yourself you people post threads seeking to cleanse your conscience through vain attempts at self promotion. We are safe in your hands? BS.

ATS is all about sighting sources is it not?

Well I clearly sighted a source in regards to my resentment of your cleek.
Very defensive response, is it so hard to take the criticism!?

I have my reasons to dislike you - I gave you one pefectly legit example!

And BTW my brother is a psychiatric doctor so quit the petty insults mate, aint painting a pretty picture on your behalf.





[edit on 6-3-2010 by DomhainGràdh]

I can see the pros and cons of officers wearing these devices. Some instances will show the true valor and oath-bound intentions of the man-in-blue, but others will sadly show the other side of the coin; the man who wanted the uniform to give him power and control over others.

If we could make all who enter into public service wear these during working hours, presidents, senators, congressmen, govorners, mayors, etc... and then make the content 100% accessible by the common man...then they'd really be worth something.

Why now do you see alot of news about REPLICA handguns, AKA airsoft,bb/pellet guns?
Here in the center of canada in my small town there going local over any fake guns?
why? the cops....
they tell stories of how people use them as real guns. What a crock..

HERES A FACT...MORE CITIZENS DIE FROM POLICE GUNS THAN POLICE DIE FROM CRIMINALS GUNS.

END OF THE DEBATE.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by colt122]

When Nashville added something like this to their patrol cars some years back, the first things they asked were "how do we turn it off", "where is the tape", "how do we take the tape out" and "who has control over the tape at the station".

When told there was no tape, it was all digital, it was downloaded automatically when the car returned (or on command remotely), the video was copied to three off-site servers out of control of any of the police, and that the camera could not be disabled, there was nearly a riot.

I am all for this system, IF and ONLY IF, if cannot be disabled, the video gathered is copied to multiple off-site locations at least two of which are not under the control of the police (in Nashville the city attorney's office and the mayor got copies), and if it becomes obvious by design who is trying to avoid allowing their device to download. Also the data HAS to be surrendered to a court order in a usable form in a timely manner. It would also be good if there were some "incentive" in the form of punitive fines or mandatory dismissal in the event of a lack of recording of any police action, in order to prevent "accidental" non-wearing of the devices in some circumstances.

In other words, there ought not be any "Whoopsie! All of our cameras were low battery when we beat the crap out of little Timmy", without "Whoopsie! You're all felons! No qualified immunity!" to follow. Otherwise, the thing is another tool to punish the people you should be serving.

Originally posted by Mr. Suave




Guys these are just some of the things I've noticed throughout my career. Some funny, some not. I agree it's important that Law Enforcement Officers need to be "Public Servants". I myself run a very tight ship, but I also know how fast a situation can turn deadly for an officer. I've always stressed to my officers the importance of treating people the way they would want to be treated if they were stopped by a cop.

This statement I agree with, I never commented on it. Through personal experience I will always have a negative view of the police. Singularly I don't doubt the fact that there are a few who do care about the public.

With out a shadow of a doubt the job you partake in is difficult. There have been times in my life, through personal resentment, where I have been a tool towards the police. The last couple of post of mine, looking back seems like an insane rant. Fair enough. I apologise for any offence I may have caused to anyone.

Simply put recording devices for police could be beneficial. My views on your profession may be biased, but there is clearly room for manipulation and misuse.

A good thing? - Imo, no.

Anyway peace. Rants are my forte!

Originally posted by colt122
HERES A FACT...MORE CITIZENS DIE FROM POLICE GUNS THAN POLICE DIE FROM CRIMINALS GUNS.

END OF THE DEBATE.

End of Debate? When you make a statement like this WITHOUT facts and a source...in my book...thats just the beginning of a debate. So please provide me with some credible resources.

Also, please provide circumstance, enviroments, policy, and other factors that should be a part of such a statistic, since THAT is the ONLY way to get a real statistic.

[edit on 3/6/2010 by rcwj1975]

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by IceHappy
All videos can be edited.

Hollywood does it all of the time.

What about the guy being videoed?

Does he have a right to video for his defense?

Yes, the defense is ALWAYS has a right to a copy of the video from ANY camera used.

In all of the documentaries I have seen where Leos come up to investigate some one doing a private protest and not breaking any laws who are being filmed by the Leos when Joe public raises his camera or video camera all Leos become Alpha Hotel.

The day Joe Public can video back is the day I accept Leos rights to video as the two recordings should tell the same truths!

Perhaps that is why Leos become Alpha Hotels when seeing a camera or video pointing at them as they know they cannot fix theirs to serve their purposes.

I am not talking about the example shown.

I am talking about Joe Public's rights to protest and videos for their protection.

I would really like to hear from you Leos out there why you are so camera shy and thinks its your right to video others.

Also I like to know what give you the right to go Alpha Hotel the moment a camera is pointed at you. There are enough videos in the public domain not to have to prove this point.

Thank you.

You need to get out more then..lol. We get filmed ALL THE TIME as do many police officers. Yes of course there are incidents where an officer flips out about it. Why, I have no idea, but we get filmed ALOT without issue. Hell not to long ago a friend of mine who works for Dekalb County Police sang for a woman filming them after a protest, its on youtube...pretty funny stuff.

When does the defense get the Leo's Video? After the editing? When the Leos do not respect Veterans right to protest on Veterans day how can anyone trust a Leos video?

I accept there are videos, as you say on utube but equally there are documentaries that are not free like on utube but of protesters being harrassed by Leos being sold for money. Of course the content is not about Leos but about the protest, however, the Leos that show up to infringe the freedom and rights of the protester then are caught on camera being Alpha Hotels.

I should get out more? May I suggest that you go to a Veterans Day parade and see the Vets who have been refused parade permits who are trying to make their statement to the people they served and the press. Many times the Parade permits are granted to NG, Reservist and Rotc both high school and university and many the parades I went to after ETSing from the service there were no actual Vets in the parade. Granted today many National Guards and many reservist go to war but that wasn't true when I was marching. I was so angry how we were treated I left the country 26 years ago. Guess what never serving a minute in jail or have been arrested I have the secret "SSSS" on my boarding cards for international flights. I only know this last time as I was searched and harrassed for 3 hours and the plane lost it take off slot so when I reached the gate they did not take the boarding card and just said "run". It wasn't until I read the book "The End of America" by Naomi Wolf about the "SSSS" and I went and saw my last boarding ticket. I kept it to remind me what a terrible time I had! On the part you don't normally get to keep was the mark four times in RED stamp.

Secret markings and my only wrong doing was to serve my country and thinking I had a freedom of speech. Because I was wearing my awards on my uniform jacket during the parades I was picked out by the press and received air time of my points of view. I have been out of America for 26 years and the rich mans army secret messages have caught up with me.

You wonder why I don't get out much. YOU are what I am afraid of!!! Being presume innocent. Secret messages!!!!

I broke no laws, but travelling back to America, when family are ill, as I am now older and my service connected injuries have caught up with me is horroric stressful. The harrassment I received at the international gates and in customs is embarrassing, even in front of my children who view me as someone who was decorated for Valour.

I recommend to everyone who reads my post to read Naomi Wolf's "The End of America"! You might see the rich mans army under a different light.

Then you might understand how scary secret messages are. You cannot defend yourself from what you don't know. There is no court, there is no justice.

Originally posted by IceHappy
When does the defense get the Leo's Video? After the editing?

As soon as they ask for it and out of all the videos given to a defense team, how many have been tested for editing and found to have been tampered with? Please prived me with that number.

When the Leos do not respect Veterans right to protest on Veterans day how can anyone trust a Leos video?

I have no idea what happened to you guys that day as I was not there. It sounds like there is MUCH more to this story then you will obviously share. As I said in another thread to you, I am a veteran as are MANY LEO's, so why would we say anything to you on a day to celebrate our service? Again, tell the whole story UNEDITED!

I should get out more? May I suggest that you go to a Veterans Day parade and see the Vets who have been refused parade permits who are trying to make their statement to the people they served and the press. Many times the Parade permits are granted to NG, Reservist and Rotc both high school and university and many the parades I went to after ETSing from the service there were no actual Vets in the parade. Granted today many National Guards and many reservist go to war but that wasn't true when I was marching. I was so angry how we were treated I left the country 26 years ago. Guess what never serving a minute in jail or have been arrested I have the secret "SSSS" on my boarding cards for international flights. I only know this last time as I was searched and harrassed for 3 hours and the plane lost it take off slot so when I reached the gate they did not take the boarding card and just said "run". It wasn't until I read the book "The End of America" by Naomi Wolf about the "SSSS" and I went and saw my last boarding ticket. I kept it to remind me what a terrible time I had! On the part you don't normally get to keep was the mark four times in RED stamp.

Why are you mad at cops for not getting a permit? We have NOTHING to do with it. As for your leaving the US and babbling about your SSSS stuff, I have no idea what your point is. As for Naomi Wolf...well enough said on her.

Secret markings and my only wrong doing was to serve my country and thinking I had a freedom of speech. Because I was wearing my awards on my uniform jacket during the parades I was picked out by the press and received air time of my points of view. I have been out of America for 26 years and the rich mans army secret messages have caught up with me.

WTF are you talking about.

You wonder why I don't get out much. YOU are what I am afraid of!!! Being presume innocent. Secret messages!!!!

Again, WHAT?

I broke no laws, but travelling back to America, when family are ill, as I am now older and my service connected injuries have caught up with me is horroric stressful. The harrassment I received at the international gates and in customs is embarrassing, even in front of my children who view me as someone who was decorated for Valour.

Well as greatful as I am for your service and sorry to hear your not doing well health wise, WTF does this have to do with the thread? I am a veteran and UNLIKE you don't demand special treatment, even when I wear my medals.

I recommend to everyone who reads my post to read Naomi Wolf's "The End of America"! You might see the rich mans army under a different light.

Again, Naomi Wolf, enough said.

The quality of the video is somewhat lacking, which opens it up for manipulation via digital techniques. I also think that better image stabilization is needed.

I also wonder how well it performs in the dark or at night? As this could provide a way for enforcement officers to 'speak' or 'act' for the camera during particular situations in which the video is not clear.

This is a great idea, as long as the cops can not shut the device off at any time. Otherwise it will just be used selectively.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by DJM8507]

Oh, about editing the video, if the stream is copied off-site to a neutral site it's a bit harder, and most of these systems (Nashville definitely) had hardware embedded hash codes which made alterations a snap to spot.

Not that NSA couldn't do it, but you only have to be police resistant, not hacker resistant. Most cops I've known couldn't format a disk much less decrypt hash code tables, and you can't tase a video stream into submission or stick a toilet plunger up its arse to influence its behavior.