A Step Forward for Law Enforcement, and Even Some on ATS will be Happy!

reply to post by Schmidt1989


Thanks for the elegant reply Schmidt1989

Deny ignorance much??

Time will tell i guess...

Peace

[edit on 6-3-2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by jam321


I'm sure the FEMA camps will have ample video surveillance.

topdocumentaryfilms.com...

reply to post by rcwj1975


Probably a step, or many steps backward.
Explaining myself.
Who or what is going to keep those feeds of becoming news material or even movie documentary TV material thus the TV hours of displaying raw violence as it exactly happened, will now increase plenty fold, adding to the already existing number of similar TV material out there, desensitizing the average viewer even more and especially minors to plain street violence.

What you think it will lower violence levels might end up actually increasing it.
The only reason TPTB probably accepted this kind of technology in its specific form to be carried by policemen.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by spacebot]

Due to your line of business have been probably desensitized at some level but you make the mistake that this is viewing material for the average viewer too. That is wrong. Some of us would not want to have this kind of material booming loud through our TV sets, or our neighbors, or our room mates or, or, and probably we are being forced to and we are not getting payed for it unlike you people do.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by spacebot]

Here are some comments I found from some police officers who are using vidmic. I assume they are cops. Never know on the internet. These are from 2008 and 2009 but hopefully the gadget has been improved.

good daytime video but sketchy night video

Now supervision can criticize how we do our jobs

'm a baricuda about my officers recording all contacts with citizens. We now equipe all our duty Officers with personal audio/video recorders (VIDMIC by Earhugger). They work great and most people dont realize they are being recorded

The video is fairly clear (good enough to know whats going on) and does a decent job of showing the "officers" point of view. The cam does tend to either over shoot people or record their chest, but you generally know whats going on.

policelink.monster.com...

Originally posted by drew hempel
Yeah this stuff is not to monitor the cops it's to identify potential criminals --

www.l1id.com...

Mobile Identification: Portable and wireless finger, face and iris systems for on-the-spot, field identification.

Yeah that sounds most likely to me.
After all since when does the government give a crap about peoples rights. If they are spending money, you know it’s for the purpose of generating more money for their constituency. This is only to help ID more suspects, and make charges stick against the accused more. It is certainly not to protect the people from police corruption. I have learned over the years that law enforcement and the judicial system is a lot more about making Cities/Counties/States money, then it is about enforcing the laws on behalf of justice.

Lets face it, police officers have gotten away with things that if an ordinary citizen pulled them, they would be facing years of prison terms, yet the cops only get a slap on the wrist.


[edit on 3/6/2010 by defcon5]

Interesting,

I agree that having video equipment available for evidence is a good thing, as long as there is no one who can turn it off/ tamper with the recorded video or delete it.

But what I don't understand is in the video, the cop shoots the man in the back, why?

While he had a clear shot at his legs, why do they always go for deadly kills? explain this please!

I'm all for them, but I'm curious about how they are going to be implemented. The devices you linked to have on and off buttons which means they can be selectively edited which really doesn't do much for accountability as long as they can choose not to turn it on or shut it off at will.

In Seattle, they tested & were going to use something similar to these, but the police & their unions were against them for the following reasons.

The devices were going to be partially paid for by an outside source (maybe a grant), but in order to qualify they had to meet several criteria, at least two of which the police and their unions had a problem with.

The devices would be worn and always on while on duty - that includes breaks as the people that had authority to turn them off would not be with them. That way they couldn't be turned off in order to cover up certain events.

The devices could not be edited or or erased by the officers themselves, it would be handled by a separate division who's job it would be to deal with handling the data. That would also be to ensure there was no alteration of data.

It's my understanding the Seattle Police fought and succeeded to keep these recoding devices from being implemented, citing officer privacy as one of the main contentions, since they did not have the ability to turn these specific devices off. This is just what I remember from a year or two ago when this came up on the local news.

I understand that data control & handling is also an issue with the audio visual recording devices in police cruisers.

So, I'm curious about your departments implementation. Will the officers wearing them have the ability to turn them on and off at will and will they have the ability to erase data? If they can do either it pretty much means accountability won't be any different, they will just have better evidence to use against suspects while erasing any dirty deeds done by themselves.

While I like the idea - if they are only used selectively it tilts the playing field further from reality, as the LEO's will quickly learn to use them in a manner that will only enhance their position. If the event is contrary to their position they will either not switch it on, turn it off or later edit or erase the data - cherry picking.

Imagine an Olympic event where the athlete could turn off the judges camera when they made a mistake and then turn it back on when they made a perfect move. It would be an altered reality skewed in their favor and it would never be allowed. Yet, we have law enforcement asking for the exact same type of reality control in order to skew justice.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by Grey Magic
But what I don't understand is in the video, the cop shoots the man in the back, why?

While he had a clear shot at his legs, why do they always go for deadly kills? explain this please!

Police are trained to fire center mass, the supposed reason is that it leaves less chance to miss and hit another innocent person. It also provides more meat for the bullet to go through so it has less chance of coming out the other side, and again hitting an innocent bystander.
However, the officers I know joke about the fact that it only leaves one side to the story, and makes the paperwork easier…

This should help cops think twice before acting, but that could also put their life at risk.

I think it's a good idea. However, now I will have to record them to make sure the two videos match.

Originally posted by Grey Magic
But what I don't understand is in the video, the cop shoots the man in the back, why?

While he had a clear shot at his legs, why do they always go for deadly kills? explain this please!

Believe it or not, but a person can still stab you with a knife when their legs are shot.

reply to post by rcwj1975


I am glad to see you guys are getting a way to protect yourselves.

I hate to tell you it will do nothing to change the way cop haters think even if they see it for there own eyes they will say it is altered or faked or who knows. It has nothing to do with the truth it is about hate and hate does not see very clear.


It reminds me of a story here in my hometown a couple Black criminals get pulled over but they instead decided to run and a high speed chase is the result. Well in the process of the chase they themselves crashed with no police contact and they die in the crash. Well the family decides it is all the cops fault because they decided to pull the criminals over. And want the cops fired. I often wonder how people can think this way it is I believe the main cause of the decline of our country.

Now if we can get rid of the corrupt government you work for and all its employees...
yes including you
Im sure when change happens(and it will) the new government in charge might like this...
I will be happy when all you police and bankers are brought to justice.
The peoples justice....you know the kind......I think they tossed ropes over lamposts to deal with scum like you.
Carry guns for tyrants and expect mercy?

[edit on 6-3-2010 by colt122]

Nice - Cops with cameras!

Through personal experience I have nothing positive to say about 'law' enforcement. My earliest memory - etched in my sub conscious, that of two police officers assaulting my mother while trying to arrest my father. Yeah all of this inside my own home set around the Christmas tree.

IMO the only reason you’re providing recording equipment to personnel is purely due to the amount of past evidences of police brutality and your sheer lack of moral fortitude. I'm new to posting here but I've been around for some time. Recent threads of yours smack of a desperate need for acceptance on your part. You may very well be a fine example of your profession but that in no way makes up for the daily abuse of power by your gang of megalomaniac freinds. Through my own experiences with your ilk, have more than made my mind up on the matter, one bad apple and all that.

It's sad when those we trust to protect us, abuse their power with such frightening disregard for those they are meant to protect and serve.

You may very well be a good cop mate but ultimately your endeavouring to paper over the cracks and swim against the current on this one. IMO the best you can do is serve your own community with distinction and be happy in your own skin. As for people like me, no matter how much you propagandise your profession, personal experience is the ultimate proof of the degenerate scum that infest your ranks the world over. Your colleagues outright disgusting behaviour degrades our society more so than any civilian, how can you protect people that do not trust or respect you?.

Still to this day my mother cries when a policeman comes to her door or speaks to her in any situation. She flinches when she even catches a glimpse of your type. My family and I are far from the only ones that have suffered at your hands - no amount of preaching is going to convince me that police are our 'friends'.

There's no smoke with out fire - I would like to think you are the exception. I can see you are intelligent, that is rare for a cop, although you'll need to more than this to prove to me that you’re the exception. I sincerly would like to beleive you are the exception.

GL


[edit on 6-3-2010 by DomhainGràdh]

pigs are pigs always, this will not weed out the crooked, it will make the crooked more crooked since they will use it to extort-bare false witness.
all police are complicent to what is going on in the world. they are all cowards for their jobs. Did the national police union call for a 911 investigation that was real=no-why ? because the higher ups in the unions control all pigs. the government controls all pigs.
DONT the pigs evict people from their homes for the crooked banks?? Dont the pigs turn a blind eye to drunk drivers and people on the road under the influnce?? While they say they fight the war on drugs . hippocrits. Dont they say they love the war on drugs when a bar is on every corner?? Dont the pigs get away with # we all would be arested for?? Dont the pigs always abuse their power? Will not the pigs help the government repress free speach at any rally or protest when it is supposed to be our right--PIGS
I have seen alot of praise the pig posts-poor cop posts, well i am taught that the pigs will help the government supress the people always because all are delusional about their job, afraid to lose their job, afraid to lose their pention, so they are all cowards to the real american. Its easy to hero worship the soldier and some of these other pigs , it takes real thinking to weed out the real objectives of this hero worship I have seen manny videos of pigs punching , kicking, rough handling of ordinary citizens to classify them all as terrorist organization. Any organization that goes against the constitutional laws and bill of rights is a terrorist organization. Simply should be disbanded. Should be re-built from the bottom up. The new world order already has them all by the balls and uses them for their gain-not for the protection of the people. WHEN or if marshal law comes the pigs will all be hiding and leaving us to are selves, along with their little citizen spies they all use now-yes thats right , they all have their little group of spies they PAY .
You people dont know your god given rights--they dont protect them-they fight against them----the hero worship of the pig is a false religion simply put. The after life will have very few pigs there. go read the bible and find out the pigs role in the end days we are in. THEY WILL ONLY HELP SUPRESS THE PEOPLE.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by Grey Magic
But what I don't understand is in the video, the cop shoots the man in the back, why?

While he had a clear shot at his legs, why do they always go for deadly kills? explain this please!

Believe it or not, but a person can still stab you with a knife when their legs are shot.

right...... you're joking right? Pathetic answer.

Unfortunately I have had a lot of contact with law enforcement in my life and all I have to say is that most of the cops, actually let me re-phrase that, all of the cops that I have ever met or dealt with were a$$holes. That doesn't mean all of them are, but every cop is working for the county, or state and they always keep that in mind when dealing with civilians.

Just recently I had a court case where I had defended myself when attacked by two people. I had been on private property and been attacked, I am given a disorderly conduct because my 'involvement' so I decide to fight the case because it was complete nonsense. Well some detective shows up in place of the officer who had been there to issue my disorderly conduct charge, and he decides to tell me that I had no right to defend myself and that basically if I can run a different direction from the people attacking me I am involving myself with the fight so I am directly connected with the public disturbance (once again this was on private property). He told me if I didn't comply and plead guilty that he would withdraw the charge of disorderly conduct and try to charge me with simple assault. He also told me "Basically you need to be completely surrounded by 10 guys and then you can defend yourself, otherwise you have no right too" - are you serious?

I ended up having to plead guilty because I could not take the chance of the simple assault charges going through since I'm on parole - which this detective used to advantage.

This technology is not going to do a damn thing it's just a waste of taxpayers money IMO. Videos can and always will be edited, same thing with audio.

And just to give you another example... when I was in jail for my DUI's I had gotten assaulted and it was all captured on camera... well I was the one who ended up getting punished (I did not even return a punch or anything what so ever) and the CO tells me "The video caught everything on tape except when the guy attacked you it happened to skip" - once again ARE YOU SERIOUS??? Then I was blackmailed into signing a form saying that no physical altercation had occurred between myself and said person who assaulted me. I don't feel like explaining the whole blackmail part but this is just some example of why I hate police, and all law enforcement. They are corrupt and even if they say they aren't, they still are because they are working for the county/state which are corrupt.

Just a few thoughts that come into my mind.
Dash cams will stay in play?
The addition of the Vidmic's and the very up close and personal footage obtained, will there also now be NEW required paperwork to be filled out by "those being recorded", such as releases?
This technology has been around for a few years now, BUT as it becomes, as it is, more and more popular and in use capturing video and audio of ALL (each and every) subject within view, and not ALL of those persons are criminals or performing criminal activities,
the footage needs to be RELEASED, signatures need to be obtained for its use, (and dont kid yourself it will be compiled and used for shows or documentaries) because profits will be made.
You nor I can walk around and record, compile, construct, retain, distribute, market, or profit from such media forms Without signature.
You Cant, You'll get sued.
In theory, and in a perfect scenario, useless data will be deleted, incidents will be the only data retained, but be honest, we know that's NOT going to happen.
While we're on footage collection, WHAT is the daily protocol for end of shift? Is all data uploaded to a seperate hard drive and stored for "future" use and filed?
When used as evidence, does the foootage have to come DIRECTLY from the individual Vidmic, or has it been uploaded and pulled from the seperate hard drive? There's only around 3 hours of record time on these units so I'm guessing there's uploads involved.
With that being said, EDITTING????
Is all video and audio displaying an smpte code, is there continuous time and date stamps?
Does there have to be CONTINUOUS video and audio, (no breaks, or blocked shots) or will the "missing" sections be allowed to be "described" and then "hearsay" becomes admissable?
Yes, there are some questions.
Yes it would be nice to live in a perfect world, and we dont.
Yes there are without a doubt ways to "play" around, in, and with this technology.
Yes once again, the loss of privacy and freedoms will be justified for the supposed gain of security.
As you can see, it IS advancing, one small baby step at a time.
The real issues of causes go unaddressed, and the insertion of more access to the individual and making more individuals suspect and criminal,
under the LAW, will one day, have your intentions questioned and critiqued before you are allowed to "continue on your way".
It might not be you, it might not be your children, it will probably be your childrens children.
The slope just keeps getting slipperier and steeper.
What's that one quote about waking up on a continent??????

(hey X, check out this hot MILF and her daughters I got shots of while walking the pier, yeah wow well wait till you see the one I got loading groceries into her trunk, look NO panties!)
Dont think it wont happen!

NOT A FAN !

[edit on 6-3-2010 by HappilyEverAfter]

What good is it going to do when there's a questionable case, and the video gets sent to someplace like the GBI for analysis, and then it is reported lost or accidentally destroyed, or unreadable?

As most can tell from my postings, LEO's have never been an issue with me, shoot they even use my shooting range, and burn pit.
Thats said, I plan to ask one of them, a particular question...same one I present here.

When does the "right to remain silent" take affect?
after you are told about said right? or upon 1st contact with an LEO?

If these devises, are used as evidence, in court...I can see where our laws and freedoms are becoming less and less.

notice how the tape can be paused on any camera.?
www.guardian.co.uk...

its still going to need a good man behind the camera buttons weather helmet cam or car vid or hand held also a good sargent.
nothing happening so i will pause the camera.
www.guardian.co.uk...

when you report say an antisocial neighbour that camera is recording from second of arival .what ever you say will be used? for against. people dont even bother with our coppers now, we had them cams a good few years.only one fam in our area uses police and they are all visitors of the local cuckoo nest regular get anything they want to keep the peice new clothes holidays and they are always fighting internally all kids taken away you know what i mean .it is a shame but the lights on but no ones in.
news.bbc.co.uk...

gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com...
might be good for those dont wana travel all the way to court.
news.bbc.co.uk...

me my self dont like all this tec and c only one end . which is more depressed citizens and lots with fear to go out period because of being frietened in slipping up or inocentley dropping paper litter .many uk mums have been done for a 2 year old dropping a little litter like a 100$ fine caught on cam . not for me carnt wait for this all to be over this nightmare since 1998

soon councils will have em and bin police oh they have.
www.echo-news.co.uk...

all this tec does is make some geek rich and create loads of work for coppers they will need editing units soon then tons software then what will happen . nope its all bad and your naieve to not think so. i still wondering here in the uk about the cheif constable who was a mason comited suicide on high mountain. same week another found floating of end of a pier . I aint herd a dickie bird since it was all over the news. i digress. but rumors was these senior officers was not prepared to give orders against the public in the comeing years days months when he shtf which it will in the europe and the usa id bet my top shelf on that.
sorryy forgot spell check but it readable it aint double dutch

my expeirience with cops as been all bad from not wearing a seat belt when law first come out to reporting a women who pointed a gun at my wife and kid and it freaked her out .oh once i witnessed a coked up driver who crashed the cars and pavement .then i got harrased to go to crown court as witness but i couldnt has i had and still have chronic pancreatitisis. I also dident want wouldnt go for a couple of reasons the guy i found out was the local gangster and i was warned .he only got a slap on wrist anyways .so i did well to get out of this hell situation created by the police, i was only going to shop and asked did you c anything(keep your gob shut unless it really seriouse my opinion). Then tables turn if you dont go to court you are the criminal . So what they did then they put me in the local paper so he knew who i was and were i lived wife kids to .This cop did this from south africa he was i remeber he got mad cause i said are you austrailian .he also had eight other witness but even though i had medical saying from a proff of pancreatology and a consultant and gp that i couldnt go because of pain and the stress then he did this the ever loving rightouse nice cop eh.The cop even wanted me to say stuff he told me about this guy. The cop who did me for seat belt diff cop was moved after he was caught haveing sex on duty and selling drugs from girls flat. Man i tell you i can go on and on at least a few more stories and every one i know has one from letting people of tickets for sex i digress.Cops get an attitude most end up divorced .its like when your mates go in the army and they come back with this weird attitude which last for a few years till they go back normall. wow i m digressing . the cameras is a no go less than 1% crimes caught or prosecuted by streetcams.
cops dont hardly get fired they get moved to a diff area.



[edit on 3/6/2010 by dashar]