A Step Forward for Law Enforcement, and Even Some on ATS will be Happy!

Originally posted by rufusdrak

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by Grey Magic
But what I don't understand is in the video, the cop shoots the man in the back, why?

While he had a clear shot at his legs, why do they always go for deadly kills? explain this please!

Believe it or not, but a person can still stab you with a knife when their legs are shot.

right......

you're joking right? Pathetic answer.

You must be another tool in the tool box.

You can't stop a person with a knife by shooting them in the legs, smarty.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by Mr. Suave


I understand that the beaurocracy involved in law informant is some what over the top. I will admit that I know a few people which have had their fair share of encounters with the police that have used the complaints system as a tool in which to attack an officer. I personally try to abide by my own sense of morals, hence my emotional responses on this topic regarding past experiences. When I see the proposed use of camera/recording equipment, I get a little paranoid. Again through past experience. I see this as a tool that can be used for bad practice as well as good.

On the flipside how ever, clear documentation of illegal behaviour can only be a good thing for you and the public, I agree. Some of my old mates have less than perfect morals and would use any possible means to get off with a charge, as I touched upon above. We all know that filing a complaint will ensure the officer in question gets the run over from superiors. Will this equipment help you there? No doubt. I only hope that it then works both ways and that any unjust behaviour n the part of the officer would be documented as well.

Clear pros and cons - These days there can be to many rules to abide by and the powers of the police have been unjustly expanded IMO. Beaurocracy gone wild, but all people make mistakes, myself included, I just hope that implementing this tech will help the citizen as much as the police.

Too many rules and regs, do you not have a hard time keeping up with all the new legislation changes?

peace

This is a good thing in many ways but as with everything something is bound to go bad with it.

I'd say mostly good but sounds like quite an expensive total for the tax payers in america if every single police officer had this equipment.

I'm just trying to think whether or not it would save any money in the end.

Because i don't know about america but in the UK even if something is helping the community but it costs a decent chunk to the tax payers the public will still complain.

Then again lord knows what mps have been spending the tax payers money on over the years. Mad things.

Originally posted by bvproductions
I'm surprised no one brought up the idea that these will be used during riots, etc. to catch more people on film to arrest and so fourth.
Just picture G20 with these nifty lil' things..
Just throwin' that idea out there.

You don't get it.

I was in peaceful protest in San Francisco Veterans Day Parades Mid 70's and I now receive the "SSSS" on my plane tickets. The Leos had Movie cameras back then and used them. I have never been arrested but flying from my home in the UK to America and back is very stressful so much so that I put my kids on another flight with my wife so that they don't have to witness the harrassment I go through for excersising the freedom of speech that I thought every veteran fought for even if Americans have never served the right to freedom of speech.

At the G20 protests usually cops throw the first punch. Here in the UK a British Leo has gotten away with murder.

There was a man whom Channel 4 received all the videos in the square block area which showed this innocent man who was coming home from the games standing looking away from the trouble whom the Leos struck and shoved to the ground and he died within minutes afterwards as the Leos weapon was one of those extendable wanes. The Leo is free and Channel 4 has documented whom struck this innocent man complete with his helmet number as he removed his id off of his uniform. Channel 4 also showed other attacks on protesters by this same Leo to include grabbing one man dragging him down the street and shoving him against a Leo Van and dragging him along the van whilst a Leo opened the front door in perfect timing for the innocent protester face to be struck by the door opening.

I have the news footage if anyone cares to see. All I need to know is a suggestion how to display it for those who wish to see it.

After seeing this I am feeling that maybe the protesters show go ready for the protest march as the Leos are themselves all armed up and some on horse back.

Any takers....

Just tell me where to upload the video.....

When the people no longer can protest in peace what is left?

Civil war?

If that is the case I think the Leos er sorry Rich Mans Army will be slightly out numbered!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember in my time we were peaceful.

We have a related discussion going on here in NZ about tazer cam.
They are about to be rolled out en-masse.
We have one half of the propoganda machine saying how wonderful it will be that the device can't be abused because it captures the details of the usage so we should embrace 50000 volts of authoritarian goodness.
But then we have the police saying sure it'll record video but the data will not be available to anyone except the police.

So here we have a seemingly good idea thwarted by semantics, playing with words and ideas which effectively nullify it's introduction and value to the public as a tool of protection and accountability.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by TechUnique]

reply to post by IceHappy


Check this thread out.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by TechUnique

Thank you my friend for your link.

I don't want to see a civil war. We learnt in history the ugly costs involved. Brother against brother - Father against son. Mothers and sisters pray for their loved ones back raped and murdered by the other side.

My family history, all the males were for the south except for one, who was the only member of my family shot, but for him it took two years to succumb from his wounds. The entire clan pissed off at his ideals to fight for the north grieved over his suffering and eventually loss.

This is why I protested in earnest and I stood out and the system has now marked me which was done by Leos. I tried to make a peaceful change or at least wake up my fellow Americans.

In England things are worse. More cameras in Baskingstoke than the entire New York State! 1984 George Orwell is here. Albeit a bit later than his book predicted. To appreciate America, one needs to travel and live and see the Justice system in the UK! Lords, Ministers illegal expenses, Gorden Brown whom was not elected by the people to run the UK to appreciate the US checks and balances! The English (colonial English) settling in the New World had their revolutions against the King and the English government which was called the American Revolution. The British people who are like minded are still waiting for their turn here in the UK. Prehaps that is why some English don't like the Americans, we did what they didn't. Nevertheless, their is now two wars on going that IMHO are illegal if what I feel in my soul that 911 was an inside job.

I was in the air on 911 still have my ticket stub to prove this. We landed in Canada and were well searched. When I landed back in the UK my bag was not on the baggage section. I had to go to the bagage info desk where as in an hour they found my bag. Stupid me, I locked my bag and they murdered my bag to get it opened to search the contents. Everything was upside down. Containers opened and emptied the contents, well search boys. Now when I fly I leave my bags unlocked and use my digital camera to take pixs of contents as I pack it. I always have added inside my bag when arriving a customs check document signed and dated that my bags were searched.

If I now want change in my country it would seem the only way is civil war. I truly do not want to see the suffering. My final protest was to leave the US and I live far from a proper city away from people. I file my income tax return every year but pay no American taxes as I don't wish to support the war machine. I did not see the UK government falling behind Bushes tail and join the US war machine. I miss my culture, but not the Leos I fear. My home town of Napa was a peaceful place to grow up when I was a kid. 3 years ago, on my last trip, I was in Napa for 3 months. I heard more gunshots in those 3 months than I did since leaving the military. I can hear the Leos reading this and say hey we are needed. My question is why is America so angry that there are so many gun shots now and not when I was growing up. People are getting tired of business as usual.

Yes the Leos will take on some of the evils but they are there to protect the rich man. Anyone had a robbery? Do you think that the rich man receives the same brush off? There are two levels of support in both countries by the Leos ergo rich mans army is what my unit called them when I was with the VNVATW! Now there is an IVATW so America is not getting better and the rich are now ruling America just like the British when we were only a colony! What to do. I leave it up to you as my stress level cannot take the pain any longer. I may never come back to the States except to attend family funerals.

Now that everyone know that Leos are armed with cameras remember not to make a mistake. If a Leo follows your car long enough he will find a reason to pull you over as we motorist are only human and make mistakes.

Remember you are being filmed. It is not for your protection.

Sorry for being a bit off topic but I was asked by a Leo to explain myself!

Thank you for allowing me to.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by richierich

 

Celebrities are fair game because they allready sell their image for financial gain. They have a severely diminished expectation for privacy. As long as the photo does not make it appear that the celebrity is endorsing a product it is fair game.

It doesn't apply to a normal person because they do not sell their image for financial gain. So if you want to use it for commercial gain you need a release form. I learned that the hard way shooting music videos.

You really are amusing. if a papparrazi takes a picture of a celeb...or ahnyone else, the person being photographed is NOT selling their image!! Do you think that the celeb gets any money from the shot that is taken?? Hell no!! ONLY the photographer gets any money for a celeb shot...

When someone is selling something, they normally get paid for it!! you are TOTALLY wrong in your assumption, and cannot even make a cogent argument...you have been busted with logic.

It is LEGAL to film ANYONE in a public place. The ONLY exception would be if you made money from their image and did not have a release signed. But the VAST majority, 99.9% of all photographers in public are NOT commercial and there is no reason to believe that public picture taking is in ANY way related to a commercial enterprise.

You really should read what you write and check it for common sense before posting...you make NO points when saying that celebs get paid by papparrazi for their pictures and are' selling ' them...thats crazy and is not reality.

yeah my post was horrible and inappropriate i'm a terrible person cough nazis

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by Volton
I don't need to be recorded while I'm on the clock to prove I'm doing my job right. Am I under the same scrutiny? No, but it really shocks me that all of your co-workers were okay with this.

And the video used to demonstrate this technology? wth!!!

Do you not go through combat training on how to disarm someone with a knife? umm without shooting them dead......

Why does it shock you? Also how many other jobs do you know of are arm chair quarterbacked and put under a microscope? Does your job have other peoples lives hangin in the balance of a split second decision?

This isn't hollywood man, and I am guessing by your last statment your young, practice MMA BS, and have never been attacked by someone with a knife. GOD how I wish it was as easy as some of you make it out to be. Come talk to me when you successfully disarm arm a jackoff with a knife OUTSIDE a training enviroment where said perp doesn't follow a training script.

Well, lets just put it this way, If I don't do my job, thousands of lives are at stake.

And yeah, I know it isn't Hollywood, so quit treating every scary man with a knife like he is Michael Myers.....

A frigging ball point pen is a deadly weapon, you going to start shooting people dual wielding a couple of papermate ultra fine's?

reply to post by Volton


Good reply mate. Not everyone is Jason Bourne with or without a rolled up newspaper or a ballpoint pen...

Oh yeah that was Hollywood.

They did a lot of cutting and editing on that movie......

The equipment to edit video with out being able to detect the editing is becoming more and more available and I am sure that the Rich Man will make sure his army has the best kit available!

How many of you can afford a defence attorney? Hw many can afford a defence attorney and to hire a good video editor to look for authenticity? Public Defenders i.e. the one they issue you with when you cannot afford council are so overworked do you really think you could get to the truth of a Leo video authenticity?

I don’t care about the people who have done something whereas the majority said yea and back the Leo. I am talking about those of us who are presumed innocent going about our business and end up in the wrong place at the wrong time or end up like that chap in London who was killed by the Leo. We can see it on Channel 4 video which they legally got a copy of videos on every camera in that city block. It has been proven that the dead man had nothing to do with the protest at G20 but was indeed taking a short cut home from the game. When the Leos saw him he was looking not at the protest way down the street but the Leos in all their weaponry marching towards the protesters. He was on the side by the shops and the Leos had to change direction to hit him with their extendable wane and shove him to the ground. He died in minutes with out the Leos helping him.

If the cameras did not protect him and he is now dead how will they protect you when you are involved with a Leo????????????

Innocent man Killed in London by Leos during G20 Protest who was not a protester

Another story same dead man by Leos - this story has video

I could go on linking but this story and my plane tickets showing 4 "SSSS" stamps on the part of the boarding card they keep with one "SSSS" has a punch hole in the middle of it to show that the Rich Mans Army took care of this Protester.

Again I that the ticket if anyone wants to demand proof.

"To understand sacrifice, you must understand loss. To understand loss, you must understand pain. And to understand pain, you must lose something you've sacrificed for!"

My friend who bears the above signiture my question is simple regarding your quote.

Who understood the pain inflicted on this innocent bystander caused by the Leo? Not the Rich mans army and that is for sure.

One day the peaceful protester may show up equiped like the Leos who greet them. Who will feel that pain and scarifice and why cannot we protest in Peace without hidden messages and videos that mark protesters for life?

edited to add links to the innocent bystander Killed by Leos - Cameras did not help him. Leo is still free!!!!!!!!!

Why are the Leos or Rich Mans Army starting civil war?why cannot we protest in Peace without hidden messages and videos that mark protesters for life?

[edit on 3/9/2010 by IceHappy]

reply to post by rcwj1975


Oh, and on a side note.....I'm older than you, only watch Gina Carano when MMA is concerned, and don't need to disarm someone with a knife, that's your job!!!!!

All I am saying is that in the demo video, if you need to shoot to kill someone with a knife when you have your bean bag guns, tazers, pepper spray, batons, ect.... It seems to me that some additional training is needed.

Dude, that's in your job description, to put yourself in harms way, and if you can't take getting cut maybe you need to find a new profession.

Originally posted by Volton
Well, lets just put it this way, If I don't do my job, thousands of lives are at stake.

Please share...or let me guess, its top secret. If you have job that is so important it might be nice to share because people can use you to gain knowledge from.

And yeah, I know it isn't Hollywood, so quit treating every scary man with a knife like he is Michael Myers.....

I don't treat them like fake movie characters...I treat them like the threat they are.

A frigging ball point pen is a deadly weapon, you going to start shooting people dual wielding a couple of papermate ultra fine's?

Even though I agree a pen can kill as easily as the edge of a credit card, this comparison makes the author look stupid. People with ZERO experiance have to always try and make those actually dealing with the life altering situations seem unfit to do some compared to themselves. But to answer your retarded question...NO we wouldn't.

Originally posted by Volton
Oh, and on a side note.....I'm older than you, only watch Gina Carano when MMA is concerned, and don't need to disarm someone with a knife, that's your job!!!!!

Your age does not convert to automatic wisdom or experiance and by your reactions, thats obvious. Your right, that is my job, and my job dictates I do that how I see fit in that situation. Actually there, not in my computer chair rewindind, stopping, pausing, slow mo, etc...while armchair quarterbacking.

All I am saying is that in the demo video, if you need to shoot to kill someone with a knife when you have your bean bag guns, tazers, pepper spray, batons, ect.... It seems to me that some additional training is needed.

Like I said, your INEXPERIANCE shines through. You think EVERY first responding officer has these tools readily available? You think these tools are always effective? You think you always have time to deploy such less lethal force when met with lethal force? Again, never having been there or through it explains why you have such a mindset, so I can somewhat understand it.

Dude, that's in your job description, to put yourself in harms way, and if you can't take getting cut maybe you need to find a new profession.

This is by far the dumbest thing anyone could say. "If I can't take getting cut"...you sir are a bumbling idiot. Again total lack of real world experiance or knowledge of the subject.

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by Volton
Oh, and on a side note.....I'm older than you, only watch Gina Carano when MMA is concerned, and don't need to disarm someone with a knife, that's your job!!!!!

Your age does not convert to automatic wisdom or experiance and by your reactions, thats obvious. Your right, that is my job, and my job dictates I do that how I see fit in that situation. Actually there, not in my computer chair rewindind, stopping, pausing, slow mo, etc...while armchair quarterbacking.

No sir, you are wrong! You do your job within the law and not how you "see fit in that situation" You are not a judge, jury, and executioner. As I said, maybe you need to find a new profession because your mind set is exactly why everyone is critical of law enforcement.
You keep attacking my experience, why do defensive?

All I am saying is that in the demo video, if you need to shoot to kill someone with a knife when you have your bean bag guns, tazers, pepper spray, batons, ect.... It seems to me that some additional training is needed.

Like I said, your INEXPERIANCE shines through. You think EVERY first responding officer has these tools readily available? You think these tools are always effective? You think you always have time to deploy such less lethal force when met with lethal force? Again, never having been there or through it explains why you have such a mindset, so I can somewhat understand it.

Drop the holier than thou crap! You don't know what I have experienced and what training that I have had or not had.

Dude, that's in your job description, to put yourself in harms way, and if you can't take getting cut maybe you need to find a new profession.

This is by far the dumbest thing anyone could say. "If I can't take getting cut"...you sir are a bumbling idiot. Again total lack of real world experiance or knowledge of the subject.

Backed in a corner so now come the personal attacks.

Yeah, I totally expected it because I know your type.

Originally posted by Volton
No sir, you are wrong! You do your job within the law and not how you "see fit in that situation"

Your right, and their deadly force BY LAW can be met with MY deadly force, so stop complaining when we are WITHIN LAW...and that LAW gives us the ability to deal with it how WE SEE FIT. Meaning we get to determine in a split second what level of force needs to be used.

You are not a judge, jury, and executioner. As I said, maybe you need to find a new profession because your mind set is exactly why everyone is critical of law enforcement.

If you pull a deadly weapon on me, a partner, or innocent bystandard, we sure as hell ARE judge, jury, and executioner, to think otherwise will cost INNOCENT people their lives. Thank god your not a cop, I wouldn't want my family counting on you if things went south and you were on scene.

You keep attacking my experience, why do defensive?

Are you ignorant? When you come on here and bash and judge someone in a profession (any profession) and you yourself don't work that job, never seen or dealt with the things they do, how can you truly understand enough about it, to make a statement on it. Especially a shoot him in the leg statement! Then like so many others, NOT say what your job is, but yet everyone bashing cops seems to a closet Chuck Norris or ex Special Forces Soldier, etc...I mean to say some of the stuff I have read on this site, its the only valid excuse for saying such crap.

Drop the holier than thou crap! You don't know what I have experienced and what training that I have had or not had.

Holier than thou, no, its called REALITY and having been in those situations. You guys like to use this little phrase because you KNOW you will only judge cops and never take the steps to put yourself in my shoes. Again, please share your experiance and training. It would help with why your mindset, like so many others, is so jaded.

Backed in a corner so now come the personal attacks.

Yeah, I totally expected it because I know your type.

Backed in a corner...no, but when someone tells me its my job to get stabbed or sliced, there is only a few words to describe that mentallity. Your asking for a personal attack when you personally think cops should die instead of a knife wielding jerkoff. As for your last sentence, again, you show your true colors with such BS! Best part, members on ATS are starting to see you guys for who you really are, and that is a positive thing.

My job isn't important in this conversation but I know you will just keep slamming me so here you go.....

I'm a refrigeration mechanic at a chemical plant, responsible for making sure thousands of gallons of material stays at a certain temperature so it does not blow up and take out half of my city.....

I pay my taxes, drive the speed limit, and don't do anything that will put me face to face with your kind because I'm sure it's about a 50-50 chance I will get shot for minding my own business.

I'm done bickering with you. You can just go on and on justifying to the masses how right you are.

Originally posted by Volton
My job isn't important in this conversation but I know you will just keep slamming me so here you go.....

I'm a refrigeration mechanic at a chemical plant, responsible for making sure thousands of gallons of material stays at a certain temperature so it does not blow up and take out half of my city.....

I pay my taxes, drive the speed limit, and don't do anything that will put me face to face with your kind because I'm sure it's about a 50-50 chance I will get shot for minding my own business.

I'm done bickering with you. You can just go on and on justifying to the masses how right you are.

It IS important when your asking officers to shoot people in the legs without understanding liability and the reality of shoot/no shoot situations in full speed with so many other factors involved. So NOT slamming you, but when people assume and then try and justify their way of how it should be done, I want that person to have been on the recieving end of the violence.

As for your job, its admirable when people work. Take pride in it, and do a good job at it. I am sure people have no idea how critical your job and how dangerous it would be if you screwed up. So imagine someone telling you what to do, or telling you your doing it wrong. Trust me, your the one with that training and experiance and know how to keep things level so your city DOESN'T blow up...so imagine me, a cop, trying to tell you, Hey why don't you do your job this way, or that way, or you suck at it, or all guys in your position are useless and we could do it better and cheaper, etc etc...when YOU know we would be talking out of our a@@! Bottom line, if you tell me a certain mixture is best kept at this temperature by doing this, I sure ain't going to question you...the guy who does it for a living.

As for the 50/50 percentage, again thats stupid! You know it, everyone knows it. At your biased percentage that means last year 76,433,122 people should of been shot to death. Considering thats half of the people who called 911 for help.

And I will go on and on saying I and other officers are right, when we are right. I also will speak my part when they are wrong. The key is I don't jump the gun, don't stereotype, don't allow myself to get caught up thinking every person is the same.

RCWJ, I absolutely LOVE this idea and hope it is implemented as soon as possible. Finally, an honest and independent witness to the actions of both law enforcement and civilians that are not caught on a dash cam. Hopefully this can stop CCTV from spreading any further in the U.S as well.