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The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Fact or Fiction?

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posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a literary forgery.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a literary forgery

To past ATS threads on this topic:
The Protocols of the Learned elders of zion
Those damn protocols won't go away...




seekerof



Seekerof you are a dude too

I still haven't had a reply for the American Rabbi and somehow i doubt i will get one. Im going to try another rabbi




posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 12:18 PM
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Seekerof you are a dude too

I still haven't had a reply for the American Rabbi and somehow i doubt i will get one. Im going to try another rabbi


You don't really expect that any of them will give you a honest answer, do you?



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by avflf
Seekerof you are a dude too

I still haven't had a reply for the American Rabbi and somehow i doubt i will get one. Im going to try another rabbi


You don't really expect that any of them will give you a honest answer, do you?

well of course they will give an honest answer, hopefully he would explain the protocol in more detail and give his opinion of it

**update**

No reply....still waiting



posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 03:38 AM
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Antisemetic and fake as far as I know.

Total lies, if you follow the protocols you will see they were changed and written by many authours. Nazis used it to spark antisematism.

Interestingly enough one of the many stories related to the protocls is that the elders and leaders of the 10 tribes of Israel supposedly meet with Satan in a graveyard somewhere in Europe to make a deal to rule the world!!!



posted on Jun, 15 2004 @ 01:43 PM
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well of course they will give an honest answer, hopefully he would explain the protocol in more detail and give his opinion of it

**update**

No reply....still waiting



Rabbis are Jewish teachers and follow the Babylonian Talmud which allows them to lie with impunity seeing they have already repented of their sins the previous year. They do that by reciting the Kol Nidre on the Day of Atonement - Yom Kippur - where they ask forgiveness for the sins they WILL commit from that day to the next one a year later. So trying to get one to admit that The Protocols follow the spirit of the Jewish hopes for world dominance as their God promised them in the Old Testament would be like expecting to draw blood from a stone.
Here are a few quotes on the Protocols from known sources:


>Whence comes this uncanny note of prophecy, prophecy in part fulfilled, in part far gone in the way of fulfillment? Have we been struggling these tragic years to ... extirpate the secret organization of German world domination only to find beneath it, another, more dangerous because more secret? Have we ... escaped a Pax Germanica only to fall into a Pax Judaica?"
The Times, London, May 8th, 1920.


>"A document forged to defame a people."
The American Hebrew.


>"A clumsy forgery."
Lucien Wolf in The Spectator, London, June 12th, 1920.


>"If the document is a forgery, as alleged, then it is one of the most remarkable in the history of literature"
The Spectator, London, October 16th, 1920.


>"Those who feel libeled by the Protocols have the most obvious remedy in the world: all they have to do is to rise and denounce the policy of them, instead of denying the authorship ... But when you come to read them, how can any reasonable man deny the truth of what is contained in them?"
Norman Jaques. M.P., in Canadian House of Commons, July 9th 1943.


>"The authenticity of this document cannot be proved; on the other hand, the efforts made by some writers, principally Jewish, to show it to be a forgery do not carry conviction to many serious minds."
The Rev. Denis Fahey, C.S.Sp., B.A., D.D., 1939.


>"It is too terribly real for fiction, too well sustained for speculation, too deep in its knowledge of the secret springs of life for forgery."
The Dearborne Independent, July 10th,1920.


>"The United Nations is Zionism, it is the super government mentioned many times in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, promulgated between 1897 and 1905."
Henry Klein, New York Jewish Lawyer, in Zionism Rules the World, 1948.


>"How much the whole existence of this people (the Jews) is based on a permanent falsehood is proved in a unique way by 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion', which are so violently repudiated by the Jews. With groans and moans, the Frankfurter Zeutung repeats again and again that these are forgeries. This alone is evidence in favour of their authenticity. What many Jews unconsciously wish to do is here clearly set forth. It is not necessary to ask out of what Jewish brain these revelations sprung; but what is of vital interest is that they disclose, with an almost terrifying precision, the mentality and methods of action characteristic of the Jewish people and these writings expound in all their various directions the final aims towards which the Jews are striving. The study of real happenings, however, is the best way of judging the authenticity of those documents. If the historical developments which have taken place within the last few centuries be studied in the light of this book we shall understand why the Jewish Press incessantly repudiates and denounces it. For the Jewish peril will be stamped out the moment the general public come into possession of that book and understand it."
Adolf Hitler, in Mein Kampf, page 258



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
Of course Cocco, the document was probably faked by globalist, but the plot about jews planning to take over the world, is far from the truth.


Wait a second check out all mainstream media, its is owned by jews , regardless who wrote it , it works and people have overlooked the presence of the jewish communities, you know ignorance is bliss,keeping it that way is probably best.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 08:23 AM
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Remembering that a lot of thing are lost and gained in translations the accuracy is in question,however it would be foolish to think that jewish people are not capable of corruption. All races and religons have their form of mafia that aim to control all they can but not everyone that belongs to that race or religon is involved. If you look at the liniage of people in the skull and bones it could be conceivable that some of those people have a hand in the protocols. My point is there are many groups that would love to control the world or who already do. If you look at the IMF or World Bank along with gold ownership the deed may already be done and all of us poor slobs are just in denial.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 08:45 AM
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It matters not who wrote them.

Understand that.

What was written has come to pass and is continuing to unfold. Those who deny that are liars.

Deny this at your peril.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by avflf
Rabbis are Jewish teachers and follow the Babylonian Talmud which allows them to lie with impunity seeing they have already repented of their sins the previous year. They do that by reciting the Kol Nidre on the Day of Atonement - Yom Kippur - where they ask forgiveness for the sins they WILL commit from that day to the next one a year later. So trying to get one to admit that The Protocols follow the spirit of the Jewish hopes for world dominance as their God promised them in the Old Testament would be like expecting to draw blood from a stone.

Wow, are you a real biggot or do you just play one online?

Infinite clearly stated that this thread was not an instrument for Jew-bashing. I firmly support free speech, even ignorant tripe like the quote above, but can't we all just get along?



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 06:22 AM
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Some more interesting links;



For a dozen years now I've been unraveling the thread to figure out who the infamous "they" are. I've developed extensive files on the Bilderberg Conference along with some of the dirty details of the United Nations among other groups. I eschew speculation and deal in verifiable facts. Crossing the "t's" and dotting the "i's" is critical for me.

Recently Rose Rabinivich posted the text of a 1952 speech which led me to read (and later order the book) The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. As a researcher it was immediately obvious to me that the text of the Protocols had a 'Rabinic" writing style to it, and when I began putting globalist names with organizations the whole picture became quite clear. There can be little doubt to the serious researcher that the Protocols (no matter who actually wrote them) are in fact a Strategic Plan intelligently written.


Link




Many people think "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is anti Semitic "hate literature" and a fraud.

Nobel Prize winner Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote that the book exhibits "the mind of genius." This is pretty unusual for a fraud.

Solzhenitsyn said it exhibits "great strength of thought and insight...Its design...(increasing freedom and liberalism, which is terminated in social cataclysm)...is well above the abilities of an ordinary mind...It is more complicated than a nuclear bomb." www.rense.com...

I'm afraid Protocols may be genuine. They are lectures addressed to Jewish Luciferians (Illuminati, Freemasons) detailing an incredible plan to overthrow western civilization, subjugate mankind, and concentrate "all the wealth of the world...in our hands."

The book, typical of similar Illuminati documents, was leaked to the Czarist Secret police and published in Russia in 1905.

The issue of anti Semitism diverts attention from this plot which has been unfolding for over 200 years and is behind world government, September 11, Iraq, Homeland Security and the bogus "War on Terror." FAIT ACCOMPLI


Link



The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are now showing on Egyptian television. This soap opera with such an unusual theme will be aired for a month. The television series is based on the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

Historians still argue over the issue of the famous protocols. No one is sure if they are really authentic or if they were forged by an anti-Zionist. The numerous attempts made by the international community to shut down the miniseries have all failed. The Egyptian TV series is called ?Horseman Without a Horse. There are about 400 actors involved in the production of the series. Egyptian television will be airing the series during the holy month of Ramadan.

It used to be believed that the ?plot of the protocols was allegedly written by the secret police of the Russian Tsar Nikolay II. Later, another opinion emerged: the book was first published in France based on political satire about Napoleon III.

The protocols will first be aired on a new private television channel in Egypt. Then, the television series might be shown on Egyptian state television and in several other Arab countries as well. American Jewish organizations have held demonstrations in front of the Egyptian embassy in Washington, demanding the series be cancelled.


Link

As i said before, i will not tolerate any anti-semitic statements or any racism against jews. I do not want this turning into a "jew-bashin" thread.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 03:48 PM
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Have I become your enemy because I told the truth?



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 04:10 PM
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avf, it seems that you have a fuzzy translation of what truth is.


They do that by reciting the Kol Nidre on the Day of Atonement - Yom Kippur - where they ask forgiveness for the sins they WILL commit from that day to the next one a year later.


I won't fault you for your incorrect statement, but I will fault you for blatantly disregarding the text of the Kol Nidre prayer that you casually refer to above. I make a habit of researching texts before discussing them. In any event, note the following: Nidrei from the Hebrew root word "Neder" means vow.

It is a major sin in Judaism to take a vow using god's name and not fulfill it. This prayer is asking god to forgive the vows they may have made in the past year and is asking god to please forgive vows they may - in moments of weakness - adopt over the next year.

Nowhere in the text does it mention that all their sins vanish. If you want me to translate this prayer verbatim into english for you I can do so via a u2u since I, unlike you, understand it in it's real text, not some joke of a website quoting it.

Secondly, are you seriously expecting a Rabbi to reply to you regarding the protocols? Why? What in the world makes you think that a Rabbi would have read a proven literary forgery? I don't know about you but I personally would not invest much time in studying fraudulently written works that refer to me in a bad way. Sounds like a waste. If you email a Rabbi and ask him to translate some Bible verses, then I would expect a reply. Not this. Chances are he has never read it and ignores it similar to the way a Government Official might ignore the weekly world news tabloid's stories about Bat Boy being in the army.

You seem to be sorely lacking any actual knowledge of Judaism and are allowing that to obscure your view of the subject entirely. I would like to offer my help in clearing up these mistakes that are probably not your fault at all. Do feel free to send me a u2u and I'll do whatever I can to help you become better informed.

Incidentally avf, I resent your disgraceful statement that one should not expect an honest answer from a Rabbi. That is bigotry. There is no place on ATS for that. Maybe no one told you that when you registered here. Allow me the honor of doing so. Statements degrading other races and religions for no reason aren't tolerated here. Get used to that please. Up until you spouted that, this was a discussion attempting to look at this fraudulent work from a historic perspective. I believe you have damaged the credibility of the thread by posting sniping remarks at clergymen. Get over it. No one "hates you for telling the truth" you just need some assistance in figuring out what that is.

[edit on 6-18-2004 by Djarums]



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 05:18 PM
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I too, like many of you, don't like when people bash down on any "race". And it's funny, you know, because there are no races on earth except the ones we are making. There would be a race if Hitler created one, that is, through his breeding programs. We all come from nature, and nature didn't "develop" races.

Second, while these documents are interesting, you have to look at the big picture. If I would write down a "prediction" and blame the Germans, then all who read it will "adapt" and give attention to everything that is German, like games, German TV's, German actors (like Arnold), and so on.

Sure, the Jews may be rich, but because of this, does it mean that all Jews are evil all of a sudden? Ask yourselves: what do the Jews do with their money? Do they use them for evil? Etc...

It's like the preachings of Nostradamus. If you write down, say, 100 pages of "predictions" (within reason), then surely one or two at least would come true.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by infinite

I'm afraid Protocols may be genuine. They are lectures addressed to Jewish Luciferians (Illuminati, Freemasons) detailing an incredible plan to overthrow western civilization, subjugate mankind, and concentrate "all the wealth of the world...in our hands."


Link


This thread was not supposed to be anti-Semetic and that is a good thing.
But, why is it okay to bash Freemasonry? Freemasons worship Lucifer---I think NOT.


Meyer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812) played a key role in advancing this monstrous conspiracy. He was a follower of the occult Cabbalism (or Lucifer worship) that is the basis of Illuminism and Freemasonry. (See Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. freemasonwatch.freepress-freespeech.com... )


[edit on 18-6-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 09:15 PM
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I want to preface what I am about to say with the fact that I have no knowledge whatsoever of the Kol Nidre.

What I do have knowledge of, however, is Google, combined with a rough understanding of what sources are and are not dependable.

Here's a link from the Jewish Encyclopedia.

Here's another link from Yom Kippur Central.

You know, by your twisted logic, we Christians should never be trusted to keep any promise or law, because we are extended full forgiveness for our sins through the process of communion and the sacrifice of Christ. Please stop being so foolish.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 07:14 AM
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Seing that very few people have even heard of the Kol Nidre and even the Hebrew gentleman seems not to be that familiar with it seing that he maintains that the forgiveness sought is for past sins I enclose the text below

"All vows, obligations, oaths or anathemas, pledges of all names, which we shall have vowed, sworn, devoted or bound ourselves to, from this day of atonement (whose arrival we hope for in happiness) to the next we repent, aforehand of them all, they shall be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, void and made of no effect; they shall not be binding nor have any power; the vows shall not be reckoned vows, the obligations shall not be reckoned obligatory, nor the oaths considered oaths.

"And it shall be forgiven to the whole congregation of Israel, and to the stranger who sojourneth amongst them; for all the people act ignorantly."

The whole of this prayer is an aberration of all other religious teachings on repentance. The idea of changing the original prayer, where presumably they asked for forgiveness of past sins, to the new "let's not waste time in the past" was because, so say the Jews, this was necessary in the Middle Ages because of the Christian drive to convert them to Christianity. This may have had some truth in it or it can be just a smoke screen as the modified prayer is still intoned today as it was then. Maybe they feel the Christians have not changed much from and are still intent in their force convervion
Anyone who is brought up with this type of practical dispensation of sin coupled with the ideogoly that they are a chosen and preferred race (and don't kid yourselves thinking that they are just a religious order) a community of "kings and priests" while all others have not been accorded such privilege, it should not be difficult to understand that they will act in the same way as do most people in exalted positions, where truth is subjective and to be used in a need to know basis. If what I wrote is perceived as offensive ... well, truth usually is. Unless you disagree with me that Jesus went so far as to equate the Jews with the Devil. It is in your Holy Book, you know? Even I would't go that far.
And just because I pointed out the unsavoury side of Judaism this does not make me a bigot any more that if I were criticizing Christianity or any other religion. It seems that it is OK to speak out against any other people (who has not heard of calling Arabs terrorists?) but not the Jews. Remember, it is OK to say Boo! to a Jew also.
But what I pointed out here is common knowledge to most informed people. Amazing that you folks do not know about it. Where have you been hiding?



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by avflf
Have I become your enemy because I told the truth?

Not at all. Truth is subjective and elusive.

I am enemies with ignorance and biggotry.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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Off the topic, this thread wasn't created so we can insult jews and freemasons. The protocols have created anti-semitism and anti-masonic views throughout Europe and the world, anymore of racist views on this thread, i will have it closed.

Please don't ruin a good thread



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 07:47 PM
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Personally I think the protocols are real, mainly because a lot of the things in it has either happened or are happening at this very minute.

Just out of interest, I wondered what you all thought of Benjamin Freedman. What he has said fits in very well with the protocols and this man was Jewish so he cant simply be dismissed as an anti-semitic.

100777.com...

www.scripturesforamerica.org...

[edit on 19-6-2004 by legion]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:06 PM
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As usual people on here prove that they are incapable of debating anything of this sort without throwing in their personal anti-(insert group here) views.

I'm saying this one last time. If you can't discuss these kinds of topics without throwing in your personal private views of hating other people then please keep your mouths shut and stay off this site.

This thread was an analysis of a literary work and perhaps an inquiry into who actually wrote it. Instead you have turned it into you attacking and me defending the Jewish religion and its principles. I'm not interested in debating this with you here and sidetracking the topic. As I said before and as you ignored before: If you wish to debate this you may u2u me and I will share the actual meaning of such things with you. You lack any knowledge of the Jewish religion other than hate sites that people like you consider "authorities". I'm showing myself as willing to help you with your inadequacy but instead you're insistent on using other sites to disprove my firsthand translations. That's fine. I'm not ruining this thread to fight your ignorance. Honestly, if your belief is that followers of Judaism believe that they are free from all sins then you probably aren't worth debating with anyways.

Think of it this way: if this magic prayer you refer to frees them from all sins in the next year too, well then why do they have to say it every year? Shouldn't they be covered from last year's prayer? Oh I forgot, there wasn't any factual basis in what you said to begin with.

[edit on 6-20-2004 by Djarums]





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