Conspiracy against Christians

Raist, I think the answer to your original question lies in your signature:

Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds.

Raist, if I may ask:

What is your view on the Israel and Palestinian conflict?

I had a pretty heated debate with my friend from work on the Middle East where in the end we just agreed to disagree.

By the way, I believe Christianity has been infiltrated in the USA by conspiracy and views that are not of God.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by whitewave

 

But I guess I should have expected that some one my pearls were being cast infront of swine. That is from the bible for those who do not know, it is not an insult just an explination.


Raist

Raist this is usually a verse Christians use when there logic fails them and the other side makes too much sense. There is no conspiracy against Christians. I obviously know that not all Christians are adulterers. You state that it is ok to point out the failings of others. Are you yourself then conspiring? You point your finger at Hollywood but some of those people are obviously Christian. When people use generalized terms toward Christians, it is because of your leaders and generalized beliefs. When you look at Christians as a whole, they do not live their lives better than others. Much of the wars have been Christian nation against Christian nation. Slaughtering each other. Christianity has not made the world any better or the lives of the people who say they believe in it.

reply to post by Raist



I get the point but I am not sure you do. I don't think people expect xians to be perfect. Xians have accepted a moral narrative which has its origins in myth, delusion and ultimately in tribalism. You cannot possibly live up to it because it just isn't realistic. The reason people give xians hell when they're (ehem) "not perfect" (e.g. beat their wifes, cheat on their spouses, rape a child, commit murder, etc. ad nausium) is because of their presumptuous and overbearing "I have the answer" attitudes, their pushiness with that and the sickening false sense of entitlement and superiority which they excrete. That is why people love it when xians fall flat on their faces. It is just human nature. There is no conspiracy but by all means, plot on against yourselves.

reply to post by BillfromCovina


Then you are not part of the problem. But you are ignoring that there are those who place the group with the individual. That is the conspiracy. I have said it in nearly every post.

As for leaders I am not sure how many more times I need to say that either. We don’t have leaders only Christ is the leader. You might be pointing at other Christians but they are not mine or any other person’s leader. If someone is following them they are not following Christ. You cannot put your faith in man because man will fail you.

The thing I said has nothing to do with the other side having more logic it is truth. It is about trying to argue faith with a nonbeliever. I was not intending to argue faith with anyone simply point out how obviously people mistakenly place the group with an individual. But some people keep deciding to argue faith and others seem to purposely ignore the words I have repeated in nearly every post.

Raist

reply to post by Lilitu


No you do not get it. As I said we are told we will fail. We are to learn from that and work to be better. As I said we will not be free of sin until death. If you or anyone else “got it” you would understand people will fail and even though we know the answer we do not always hold that answer near us.

As for acting superior to others I am not sure why anyone would do that since we all fail. The only thing I could come close to figuring that out is that they understand that forgiveness is there for the asking as long as they truly are sorry.

Raist

reply to post by Glass_Eyed_Max


I am not sure I am really qualified to answer that but I will try.

I am not for fighting, and that fight is also not mine. I understand it that there will not be peace among man until the first three years of ruling by the beast. But that will be a false peace soon to vanish until it is all over (meaning no more world as we know it). I guess I am trying to say I have no hope of peace on earth until that time.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


I am not qualified to debate scriptures, but as I've read and come to understand, two greatly influential men by the names of John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield played very important roles in shaping western-Christian view into what it is today. I believe it is vital Christians look into both of these men and their movements as they have completely manipulated and altered how the word of God should be interpreted. Cyrus Scofield did this through the help of an organization which ultimately led him to brand his own view and opinion onto Christianity by publishing his own version of the King James Bible through the Oxford Press. The 'mainstream' Christian views heard on the radio and national TV heard by millions are that of Darby's and Scofield's views, not God.

Let me provide you with Quotes and Links, but before I do, let me make it clear to you that I am not an atheist. I'm simply a person who is on the path of religion, but as with anything I get myself into, I research first:

"ANALYZING SCOFIELD"

"After sixty-five years of ordained ministry and studying and teaching the Scriptures around the world, I am convinced that C. I. Scofield was taken in by an immense deception that he unwittingly believed and included in his Bible notes to the detriment of all who believe in them.

If the Church is to be built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ the Chief Cornerstone, then the presumptions and errors of the Scofield Reference Bible must be exposed. We are not his judge. But concerning the Scriptures, we are compelled to judge, 1Th 5:21. We are publishing this booklet that others might be able to know the facts as we have found them to be."

Scofield is Guilty of:

His own litany of such breaches:

1873 --false oath of office

1874 --taking bribes

1874 --failure to provide for family

1877 --fraud and forgery

1879 --failure to pay notes

1883 --divorce

1909 --adding to the Word of God

His life story could be found on this site:

www.gospeltruth.net...

"John Nelson Darby The beginning of systematized dispensationalism is usually linked with John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), a Plymouth Brethren minister. While at Trinity College in Dublin (1819), Darby came to believe in a future salvation and restoration of national Israel. Based on his study of Isaiah 32, Darby concluded that Israel, in a future dispensation, would enjoy earthly blessings that were different from the heavenly blessings experienced by the church. He thus saw a clear distinction between Israel and the church. Darby also came to believe in an “any moment” rapture of the church that was followed by Daniel’s Seventieth Week in which Israel would once again take center stage in God’s plan. After this period, Darby believed there would be a millennial kingdom in which God would fulfill His unconditional promises with Israel."

Other Links:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.theologicalstudies.org...

And here's a link of a Christian's website who had just found out about Scofield:

pjmiller.wordpress.com...

It is said that these men are 'fathers' of Christian Zionism, that is, Christians unconditional support for Israel.

Quoting from Wiki:

Criticism by Churches in the U.S.A.

The General Assembly of the National Council of Churches in November 2007 approved a resolution for further study which stated that the "theological stance of Chistian Zionism adversely affects:

justice and peace in the Middle East, delaying the day when Israelis and Palestinians can live within secure borders




[edit on 6-2-2010 by Glass_Eyed_Max]

reply to post by Glass_Eyed_Max


I have issues with supporting Israel or any country for that matter unconditionally. I do not pledge my allegiance to any aside from the Father. No country or man will I lay faith in over Christ. I might show support to individuals if I thought that support was appropriate, but I would not put faith in them.

I am one that believes there are those who use the name of God to further the agendas of man and not God.

It is the book of Daniel though that speaks about forming a covenant with many and breaking that covenant mid way through. The peace is supposed to last for 3.5 years.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Lilitu

 

No you do not get it.

Oh but I do. I really do. It is sad that xians seem to be the only ones blissfully unaware of this fetid arrogance which they exude pretty much all the time. You post this topic seeking only affirmation of an imagined conspiracy and when I tell you why people pile it on when you screw up you respond by telling me I don't get it and then return to "the answer" you preconceived before posting this thread. That is extremely arrogant and it's just one of the reasons why people let you have it when you fall on your face. There is no conspiracy. You xians are your own worst enemies.

Originally posted by Raist
As I said we are told we will fail.

Well that sounds authoritative. If "god" says it then - I suppose - you must obey.

But why would a "god" create people so imperfect, blame them for their own imperfections, then send his own son to be tortured and executed by those imperfect people to save them from how imperfect they were and how imperfect they were going to be? Isn't that just absolutely insane?? What kind of (ehem) "god" would do such a bat$#!+ crazy things as those? You say you are imperfect and you will sin but then all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and you will forgive yourself until you sin AGAIN? So it begs the question, what exactly were you "saved" from? And if it is so simple as asking for forgiveness then why didn't god just institute asking forgiveness from beginning instead of all this asinine drama spanning millennia?

Reply to post by Lilitu

No one can completely control how others percieve them. For example, I percieve you to be a self-righteous fool riling at the perceived intolerance and inequities of others while hypocritically illustrating those actions in your crusade against them. And of course that is not what you want to be percieved as but that's what I percieve.


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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I will admit and have done so on more than one occasion that I am intolerant of religion and with good reason. Rather than repeat myself on that note you can listen to Pat Condell who reflects my own sentiments perfectly.

reply to post by Lilitu


Again if you understood you would not even bother to ask what you have. I am not going to try and use this thread to explain the basics of the Christian theology to you. That is what you are asking me to do in your post. That is not why I created this thread. It has nothing to do with this thread.

I cannot answer for God why He chose to do things the way He did. I will say He gave us the most marvelous thing that can be given, free will. We can do what we chose to do with that will. If we chose wrong we are punished just as with mans laws. If I chose to speed I must pay a fine. If I kill I must face whatever punishment is handed to me. I am not about to explain the basics to you though because from your posts you have admitted you are intolerant of religion (my faith) and it would be a waste of my time. I am done casting my pearls before swine.

Raist

Reply to post by Lilitu

Good reason you say? I find that highly unlikely. Unless of course every member of the group you generalize, demonize and attack lined up and attacked you. Which is as unrealistic a possibility as you jumping to the moon. Also it's funny how those who are consumed by hatred convince themselves they are right in doing so and that somehow it's the fault of their target.


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Raist, thank you for your sincere and astute sentiments. There are people who are going to spew their hatred, no matter what is said. Haters are going to hate, as they say.

You made some valid points. Christians are going to be persecuted.
There are people who show up on threads like this one, time and time again, to insure that this prophecy comes to pass. They are self-appointed persecutors. Unwanted, but still here. To express nothing positive, but only disdain. They enjoy it. The opportunity to hate makes their day.

They come and whine, yet call us the whiners. They come and hate, yet call us haters. They come to destroy, but call us destructive.

This is the reason I don't visit these threads regularly. It's difficult for me to see the cruel and ignorant behavior....the very thought processes...
of disgruntled and miserable people, who can't bear to see what others have found. Who can't tolerant what others hold dear because they can't understand it. Whose minds are so small, but whose egos are so grand.

Originally posted by Raist
I cannot answer for God why He chose to do things the way He did.

I don't see why not. What is witnessing, sermonizing, preaching or being "ambassadors for christ" if not speaking or answering on behalf of "god"? If I ask a christian why god sent Jesus he can tell me, or a muslim why I must pray 5 times daily he can tell me but it I ask really tough questions which shine a spot light on the utter absurdity of your position then suddenly you clam up saying you cannot speak for god.

Originally posted by Raist
I will say He gave us the most marvelous thing that can be given, free will.

It seems to me that one of the most common properties attributed to god by monotheists is omniscience or all knowingness, and all knowingness must by its very definition include foreknowledge. In other words the past, present and future would in such a mind exist en bloc. All created processes in such a cosmology would be wholly deterministic. Where is free will in that? Such a mind would know whether you will be saved or damned, whether or not you will "not be perfect", ask for forgiveness, turn and sin again and so on ad nauseum. In this you have no free will for as a mindless automaton you are doomed by predestiny to trace out the path of god's foreknowledge. In such an all knowing mind there is no love, mercy or justice brought to bear. Whether you are saved or damned owes more to such a mind's caprice than to those three noble virtues. How Marvelous!

Now I have already shown why people heap it on christians when one of you predictably fails. They do not conspire together to do this. It is just human nature at work but you cannot accept this because it throws your half-baked conspiracy out the door and it is this sort of aversion to facts which give people all the more reason to let you have it. As I said above you are your own worst enemies.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Reply to post by Lilitu

 

Good reason you say? I find that highly unlikely.

Well then crawl back into the "shadows" and think it over for a while.

Reply to post by Lilitu

Lile I haven't seen that delightfully silly reference to my handle used by those who can't justify their BS without some "just because". Your hate has no right and o.ly serves to hold you back while providing a convient scapegoat while utter hypocracy rules your mind.


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I think overall there is NO conspiracy against Christians. There are questions regarding the bible and how it was put together and what was left out and about how young/old the earth and a few other issues. There is also the issue that Christians are correct and everyone else is wrong: that without asking jesus to save you, you are destined for HELL. You either believe that or you don't. If I don't believe that and I state it ...that doesn't make it an attack or if many people state it, it isn't a conspiracy. There is also the multiple sects of Christianity. Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Fundamentalists, Baptists, Evangelicals, protestants and it goes on and on and on. To argue specific points is necessary to bring light to these issues/topics and find the truth. We cannot deny ignorance without it.

Good thread! I am always reminded of the famous saying, "If everyone focused on their own problems instead of others, the world would be better off". But make no mistakes about it, as we Christians are supposed to live Christ-like, no one ever said it was going to be easy. It's hard. Yes, we must always ask for forgiveness but Jesus also said it was better to sin not knowing you commited a sin, than to sin knowingly. Also, God said to flee from non-believers. That means to not let your mind be susceptible to Satan's tricks (i.e, to be tolerant of other religions) NO! This ideaology of "well, just accept that other people's religion is ok, too." is blasphemous. Does that mean to persecute them for their non-Christian beliefs? NO! Yes, He said to love your enemy, but to hold steadfast in your belief in Him. Remember, Satan's followers greatly outnumber Christians. That's okay, because Christians are the lights in this dark world...Am I a sinner? Of course! I was born in sin. Am I perfect? No way! Do I believe in God? I believe in the only TRUE GOD, and He sent His Son to die on the cross for my sins (and yours, too.)!..... And to anyone who tries to remove the splinter in my eye, remove the plank from yours. I don't know everything, but this much I do know.