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Conspiracy against Christians

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posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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Over the years on ATS and even in the “real” world I have noticed an increase in a conspiracy against the Christian body as a whole. I am not talking about torture, abuse, murders or anything like that, though certainly that does happen in some countries and even in the western world from time to time. I am talking about the claim that there are no true Christians or that all are hypocrites or whatever other label one wished to attach to Christians as a whole.

Often the Christian body as a whole seems to be judged on the actions of one or even a few. The same is often done with police for some reason, but never or rarely with the Hollywood type.

No matter what anyone says no Christian is perfect. I am not sure where this idea came about (I think most blame can be laid on the televangelists) but it seems to be very popular to say things like “you know those perfect Christians” usually said in a sarcastic manner followed by the labeling them all as hypocrites. Sorry to say no Christian is perfect. If someone is claiming to be Christian and they tell you they do not sin and are perfect they are lying to you or themselves or both. I cannot stress enough that no Christian is perfect.

Seeing as how no Christian is perfect let’s get something out of the way. Every one of them sins. It might not be as often as some or the nonbeliever but everyday Christians sin. It might be nothing more than losing their temper or a passing “dirty” thought, but they all sin. Some suffer from addictions that are sinful as well. Any addiction is sinful because it is your crutch and not the Father who we are supposed to lean on. Some suffer from addictions to food, porn, cigarettes, or whatever. Some of those addictions would not be sinful if not for the fact that they are an addiction. Now the porn would be an obvious sin regardless, food would not be until it becomes an addiction.

Since every Christian sins on a day to day basis the Christians also have to ask for forgiveness of said sins, we do not get off on a free pass because we are Christians we must ask for forgiveness as any other would have to do.

Just because one Christian sins in one way does not mean all Christians sin in that way. True there will be others that are sinning like that but the majority and most certainly all are not sinning in that manner.

This is not about Christianity and if their belief is real or not. It is not about God and whether or not He is real or not. If you want that kind of discussion please find a suitable thread. This is about the rise in the idea that Christians are supposed to be or act perfect. The truth of the matter is that though being Christian is to be a follower of Christ does not mean Christians will be perfect. It is true we believe Christ was perfect but that is because he was the Son of God. The rest of us are humans and our nature does take over from time to time. The nature of humans is sinful and will be while we are in the flesh. God knows and understands we will not be perfect, but He does ask that we answer for our sins and try to correct our sins through Him.

So should we expect that Christians will sin and falter? Yes, most certainly. Should we also expect those same Christians to accept responsibility for their sins? Yes, asking the Lord for forgiveness and doing what can be done to right the sin is the only way. Should Christians strive to be more aware of their actions? Yes, only if we are aware of our actions can we know that they are wrong. Has there been, is there now, or will there ever be a perfect Christian? Not on this earth.

Hopefully this post will help some to understand that Christians are not much different than anyone else in their struggles through life. Christians do bone head things like anyone else.

Raist




posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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Raist, if there were only more Christians like you who didn't sound completely moronic in their blatantly judgmental statements, I think this world would be a better place. I am not a Christian myself, but I do respect those who do have such a strong belief. It is those out there that would seek to be completely unaccepting of other world's religions that really boil my blood and those are the ones that should be looking inside of themselves and finding out if their intolerant attitudes are truly "Christ-Like." Thank you for your post. I find it rather refreshing.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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Good thread bud
. As a Christian it's refreshing to read this OP thanks. It seems to me on ATS but also in real life people hold Christians to some ridiculous standards. I'm far from perfect, but am always striving to better myself. Currently i'm working on quitting cigarettes... I'm down to 10 a day



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, our judgment will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense thinking of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother's eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin]." At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.


Let the one without sin, cast the first stone.

I have always felt, the people that judge others, really need to look into their own soul first and foremost.

The sin of pride is very egregious.

Forgive those that trespass against us, lead us not into temptation.

A couple of thoughts along your line OP.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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christians sin, then ask forgiveness from their space ghost and voila..they are forgiven...tomorrow they will sin again, but no worries, the space ghost will forgive them again

athiests/agnostics sin, then we must deal with the consequences, make amends, take responsibility, and try to redeem ourselves not in a all seeing all forgiving supercasper, but to the people we wronged.

Go to a jail...you will find tons of religious people..and when you talk to them, you will realize many of them say they have been saved and forgiven by God, the only one that counts...its easy...now they dont have to burden themselves with their actions because God forgave em.

Religion takes away personal responsibility (not just christians).

If religion makes you do the right thing, then great...stick with it...what annoys me is people whom use religion to absolve them of doing the wrong thing because all you gotta do is pray away the sin once its done and forego accountability.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by electricveins
I'm far from perfect, but am always striving to better myself. Currently i'm working on quitting cigarettes... I'm down to 10 a day


nice, I am about there also...however I am also down to 10 at night...

stupid addictive deathsticks. why must they be so enjoyable without even being enjoyable.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Hey Christians! Welcome to the propaganda party that the rest of us have been enduring for centuries!




posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Care to expand a bit on your statement I'm left a little confused. Not trying to attack you captain just would like to understand what you mean.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by electricveins
 


Glad to hear. I am a few days from being four years and a month of not smoking. I cannot say all of those days were easy and that some of those days I did not lose my temper more than once. But I believe you can do it, if my wife can quit anyone can. By the way we both quit because she was pregnant with our son (by a month or less).

Keep up the work on it.

Raist



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What you say here is total................malarkey.

If one only asks forgiveness for a sin, without meaning it, it is not forgiven.

Maybe you should head the cast the first stone quote I posted.

Hypocrite.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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Nearly every person whom I have experienced in my lifetime whom has exibited the most cruel hatred towards others while behaving like a devil every where they went other than church has been a Christian. I am sure it is not only that specific organized religion that is guilty. Perhaps people are starting to notice this about organized religions. In addition, when people of such unethical character try to persuade others to be "rightouse" like them, this causes outspoken anger. In my honest experiences, atheist have displayed the most genuine and ethical character that I have ever noticed. And I am a Deist for the matter.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:04 PM
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I think its a historical reference.

Ever since christianity became a hit with the roman empire, anything not christian was considered of the devil, and therefore killed in interesting ways, from crusades, burnings, lynchings, clinic bombings, etc etc etc. Basically, anything the christians deemed sinful was exectued...whats it been now, about 1700 years give or take of holy hell coming down on those whom would dare question the bible...

I guess it is a bit ironic that the religion that started in persecution, once with power, gave it back 100 fold.

just my thoughts on that.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by electricveins
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Care to expand a bit on your statement I'm left a little confused. Not trying to attack you captain just would like to understand what you mean.


Quite simple: In the western world, EVERY SINGLE non-christian religion has been heathenized at one point or another, and the most singular examples of evil within each group has been used against the group as a whole.

I have seen a major rise in the "christians are being discriminated against" sentiment of late, and quite frankly, I just cant feel bad about it, or even think it isnt deserved. It is EXACTLY what they have done to others for 2000 years.

Now, I am not, in any way speaking bad about christians, saying they should be grouped in with the evils inside their factions, or anything of that nature. But it seems that history is finally catching up with them.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by pplrnuts
atheist have displayed the most genuine and ethical character that I have ever noticed.


Thats obvious...a Athiest assumes nothing after death...if he angers you, you may take a gun and shoot him...he dies, game over. No God to back him up and take the bullet, no heaven, no praying to make it better...just consequence for an action...at the same rate, typically they dont want a life in prison either (sort of a wasted, missed chance of the one life and one time experience), so they are unlikely to kill you because that would screw up their life also, along with end yours and send you to the void.

religious people (some) simply dont care...some want to die because heaven is way better and so will gladly get killed or kill...will happily sit in jail reading the bible and saying they are forgiven, etc...cause the ghost said they are a-ok.

this of course isnt most religious...but it is many of em.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I am not sure I agree that religion takes away personal responsibility.

If I sin I still need to ask forgiveness not only of the person I wronged but from God as well. I would say it doubles my responsibility.


There are a lot of people who say they are Christian, but recent polls show that number a bit skewed and generally even in polls people try to make themselves sound better. Just because someone claims to be Christian does not mean they are. At the same time just because they are Christian does not mean they are not going to sin.

The point of this thread was not to debate whether someone was a Christian or not or whether their beliefs freed them from personal responsibility. It was to show that Christians are going to make mistakes and it should be expected. At the same time those Christians should be expected to take responsibility for their sins. If we do not take such responsibilities for our sins then the asking of forgiveness is in vein. One must truly be sorry for the sin they committed before they can be forgiven. Just asking for forgiveness thinking you are getting a free pass is a road you do not want to take. Doing that will put you in some serious trouble with the Father come judgment time.

One can only be forgiven if they are truly sorry. Christians should not go out expecting to sin (though we will as it is our nature). We should go out expecting to do our best to act like Christ and follow His word. If we go out expecting to sin we have already invited it into our hearts and will without a doubt sin. Just asking forgiveness without truly being sorry for your sin will not get you the forgiveness you are asking for.

Being a Christian does not give you a free pass to sin, it also does not erase your responsibility to your sins.

Raist



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What you say here is total................malarkey.

If one only asks forgiveness for a sin, without meaning it, it is not forgiven.

Maybe you should head the cast the first stone quote I posted.

Hypocrite.


Who judges what they mean and dont mean? you?
A man whom killed someone may truely be mournful of what they have done..may beg forgivness, etc...does he not get forgiven?

answer...of course he does...all merciful...so, there is the same man a few years later...all forgiven, got a zip in his step, and suddenly something else happens...he snaps and yep, another person is dead. omg, it happened again...he once again goes back to church, crys, begs forgivness, etc etc.

Your saying he wasn't forgiven the first time because why exactly? also explain why he couldn't end up murdering loads of people (lets say he had a chemical imbalance he never checked up on..just figured demons were making him infuriated and never got it checked out) and each murder he truely and deeply felt horrible for after it was over.

all someone truely has to do is mean what they say in begging forgivness and they are forgiven...there is no contingency saying if they do it again, they wont be forgiven...ask and you will be forgiven.

and erm..learn the word hypocryte btw...that insult simply doesn't fit...I mean, if your going to insult me, at least have it make sense.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by pplrnuts
 


I think that is where those doing the leading and asking others to follow Christ are not being truly honest.

It should be known that yes Christians will make mistakes and should answer for them. It should also be known that one needs to be honest with themselves and the Lord and truly be sorry for their sin before asking for forgiveness. As I said every Christian fails and sins, the real question is on the individual after that. Are they truly sorry for their sins they commit?

Each Christian is different. I only ask that you not judge all by those who do not show true sorrow for the sins that they are committing. As for those that are public figures they should come out and admit their sins as they will be known and used against them if not.

Raist



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Tell you what...why dont you make a new religion...make it a no religion religion...

to hell with christianity...next time someone asks you your religion, simply say you have none, but you are inspired by Christ's teachings...

that makes alot more sense than calling yourself a christian...because if you go by what it means in text to be a christian,...well, thats a exceptionally narrow gap that supposed to be for the most part...perfect.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


So you judge the average Christian person that does their best in life to not sin against others by the actions of those who did? Honestly I think the majority of those actions were done for mans desires not with the blessings of God.

How is it that if I have a Christian neighbor (say Ned Flanders) is responsible for some nut case who blows up an abortion clinic? The actions of each individual are simply that, individual actions.

If a few baseball players use human growth hormones I suppose all do? If a few football players are guilty of rape and beating women I guess all are? What about factory workers where one is caught having sex with a minor. Are all factory workers therefore also having sex with minors and responsible for the actions of that one person?

Raist



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I will just repost my original comment.




Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, our judgment will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye [point out his sins, "minor" in Jesus' example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' [tell him of his "minor" sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense thinking of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother's eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin]." At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.


I was using license, to show hypocrisy.

Cast the first stone.

edit to fix tag, why does it always do that?

[edit on 2/2/2010 by endisnighe]



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