Sacked for offering a prayer

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by the_denv

 

So random acts of kindness are gone now too? It doesn't state she was ramming her beliefs down anyones throat anywhere in the article, nor does it mention Freemasonry?

Oh no, never. Random acts of kindness is what makes the world go round. I think you read my post different to what I meant. That lady could have prayed for that child without saying out loud that she was. The best act of kindness is doing something good and nobody knows it was you, that is randomness of the act and much more powerful.

I know she was not ramming her beliefs down the parents families throat. Although to other people, even the very word "pray" could offend someone. Those parents could have been from a different religious background, who possibly assumed the nurse was a Christian bible thumper trying to push in different beliefs onto their sick child. Those parents probably (in their mind) thought "Oh my God, my child is not going to go to our Religious version of Heaven because the last words he is going to hear is of Christian Religion and we may never see our child in heaven for eternity.

In the eyes of the parents, their child's soul could have been lost forever and they (the parents) thought they would never meet their child at the end of the light. A kidnapping of the soul, so to speak.

Its not beliefs, I am a Freethinker. By the way, that Freemason reference was just an example using a different belief scenario, I know there was no reference to Freemasonry in that article.

Originally posted by davesidious
This teacher and that nurse had no business talking about religion.

She asked if she could offer a prayer, she wasn't trying to convert them.
Prayer does not dictate religion. I am perhaps one of the most anti-religious people at this site, but I pray.

It would be a different story if prayer had actually ever been successful, but every single study performed shows it achieves nothing.

LMDAO - you and your "studies". There is a world outside of those ya know.

distressed this lady started banging on about faith

Nothinig like grandizing a scenario. She offered a prayer fer pete sakes, she wasn't mojo chanting over the kid !!

reply to post by the_denv


I can see that........I just wonder about people that truely believe that way. If the last thing that matters is what you hear upon death make mine some Muddy Waters with some waves mingling in the background. Maybe a little wind singing throught the rigging too.......Paradise.

Originally posted by andy1033
Why do home teams do better than when they are away in sports.

Because the "home field advantage" is just that. An advantage. It has to do with familiarity. They practice and play 90% of their games on their home field. So, yes, they have an advantage because they know each and every in and out of the field.

Although, I do not count out the positive energy given off by the fans either.

If there's a Separation of church and state, why do the court ask you to swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth so help you god ...I guess the god they are talking about is money

Faith based healing is based on the placebo effect.

Unfortunatley the teacher in question is ignorant and doesnt understand that if the child has no faith in your religion or god.... then it doesnt work.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


When we say that Church and state dont mix, in Countries like Australia UK and USA, it was because of our Judai-Christian forfathers that we have the freedom we have today, not inspite of it.
It is sad that this is not understood, the Christian faith is not the cause of strife, TRUE Christian faith has been the end of strife and the motivation in the creation of just laws and bringing tyranny to an end.
It is obvious as the restraints of our Christian heritage is agressively removed we are falling back into tyranny and fear.
Even for non believers our Christian heritage and ALL it brings with it the freedom to pray and care for one another, the ability to speak our minds and possess private property, the privilege to challenge our Govt's through the Courts and force them to submit to the will of the people, is because of again our Judai-Christian law based on the solid foundations of law straight from the Book of the Law of the Jewish faith and the Christian Faith.
Why are those who say they are for freedom not understand this???, why persecute the very foundation of your own freedom??

Well I don't think she was preaching or ramming it down their throats. And she may have offered it to the family rather than do it in private because she thought it might bring them some comfort. So long as she wasn't pushy, I don't see a problem.
Well at least not a sacking issue. A warning or a reprimand maybe. Losing your job over such an issue - which in today's climate could easily lead to you losing your home is totally OTT in my opinion.

Actually, from my research into Laws over the past 6 years or so, I'd say that this teacher & nurse really are the victims here...Victims of religious persecution. What ever happened to Freedom of Religion, at least in America? If I'm not mistaken, isn't religious persecution a crime against fundamental Rights under the Law? Since the Bill of Rights was firmly rooted in Common Law, most countries have it on their Law Books as well...Especially in the UK, where the American Common Law originated! Common Law is just that; Law that's Common for all people. Merely reading through Common Law reveals that it's really based on Human Rights...And Human Rights are based upon the Laws of Nature as set forth by the Creator. Yes, the same Laws of Nature to which all of humanity (indeed, all life on this planet!) is subject. Not just any one nation or racial stock, but all people. Events like this make me ashamed to admit that America actually originated from English Colonies.
From the uk.news.yahoo link:

The girl was too poorly for the lesson so instead Mrs Jones, 54, spoke about her belief in miracles and asked whether she could say a prayer, but says when the mother said they were not believers she did not go ahead.

This doesn't sound like the teacher was trying to put anyone on the rack & torture anybody into conversion, a'la the Spanish Inquisitions. What is wrong with people these days?

I've been seeing an ever-increasing number of reports where Christians are seemingly being specifically targeted for persecution...And it didn't get nearly this prevalent until the Patriot Act described Christians as being "potential terrorists." Is this the "new version," similar to the persecution of Jews, that they've been suffering under for the past few thousand years? "Oh, we need to persecute someone today, let's draw straws to pick a religious type."
Man 'o man, how quickly we forget...After Hitler's running roughshod over the Blacks, the Jews, the Irish & everyone else not German or Aryan, the world screamed, "Never again!" Well, look around; it's starting to happen again.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The teacher said:

"I simply wanted to encourage them to be open to prayer ..."

I wonder how many other people she has been "encouraging to be open to prayer" before this incident...

She may have discussed her beliefs before offering prayer, but did she try to "convert" them? Was she trying to tell them which god to pray to? It sure doesn't sound like it. It sounds more like she was asking them if they wanted her to pray on their behalf. When refused, did she still try to press the issue? It doesn't sound like that either.

From the .telegraph.co.uk link:

The 45-year-old from Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, was removed from duties last December after asking an elderly patient if she wanted to pray for her.
--------------------------------------
Earlier this month, North Somerset Primary Care Trust relented and said she could resume her post.

Mrs Petrie returned to work saying she was "relieved" the issue had been resolved.

Personally, I'd thank any god that this nurse was reinstated, but it's outrageous that she was suspended in the first place. After all, many hospitals get sizable donations & support (sometimes, even with volunteer labor) from Churches anyway...What the hell do people expect? I've gone to Baptist hospitals & I'm not Baptist...Hell, I don't even like the Baptist religion. For that matter, I've stated in many a post that I don't even like any organized religion at all. All this BS for someone merely asking someone else if they'd like a prayer?

Is the social engineering actually still having such an effect on so many people that they can still keep us divided & conquered over religion? I hope everyone here at ATS realize by now that we'll never shake TPTB off of the rest of humanity until we can unite on our own & prove to them that we don't need or want them.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
How would you feel if a bunch of witch doctors started dancing and chanting around your kid, shaking rattles at them, going into trances and uttering nonsense trying to chase out the demons, frightening the heck out of your kids with such similar stupidity and superstitious nonsense?

In this particular case I'd be a bit alarmed...Because you cite an extreme circumstance & try to make it sound like rattle-waving witch doctors are commonly seen on a day-to-day basis. A bit of an unfair comparison, wouldn't you say?

Even so, I wouldn't take any formal action against a witch doctor...Unless he tried to block my path from going somewhere or tried to do me any injury. That would be a crime on his part.
The only crime I've seen from those linked articles is that of unjust religious persecution. It seems anymore that "good intentions" not only pave the road to hell, but may also lead to a jail sentence, if events like these keep going in the same direction.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
It is not the thought that is the issue, IMO.

1) It is the clear need to separate religion and state.

2) If you allow one religions prayers, you need allow em all.

3) this is school to get an education in history/math/writing..... not religion.

1) This is not what separation of Church & State is all about. It's about keeping one from having undue influence in the daily operations of the other, to the detriment of the people linked to either organization. This is mentioned in the "no religious test" clauses concerning the qualifications of assuming Office. THAT'S what separation of Church & State are about.

2) Isn't that what the First Amendment is (supposed to be) all about in America? If kids want to pray in school, let 'em...As long as they don't disrupt the instructions during classes. Silent prayers are as effective as spoken ones (which, IMO, is not at all in either case).

3) I take it you don't listen very much when a big Trig exam is being put in front of the students, do you?
Levity aside, I reiterate: As long as the religion is not causing any disturbance in the teaching of the lessons, then there's nothing wrong with it. The wrong is in persecuting someone for doing it in a way that is not disturbing the peace.

Originally posted by woodwytch
For example I would have to ask myself how these people who offered a prayer without considering the potential reprocussions, would feel if (for example), I had taken it upon myself (assumed it was ok), to perform a spell or ritual for one of their relatives without asking if it was ok to do so.

You seem to have missed the point, in both linked articles, that the nurse & the teacher did ask first...That's what triggered the persecution.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by redoubt
What kind of people are we that we would find such a problem with someone offering a prayer for us?

As a Christian, would you be willing to have someone pray to the Goddess/Buddah/Allah on your behalf?

Or would you take issue with it?

Personally, as long as they asked me first, I'd have no issue. In essence, God & Allah are the same God anyway. Besides, even in the 10 Commandments, God admits to the existence of other gods! Basically, He say, "Thou shalt not worship any god before Me." Right there He admits the existence of other gods. But He also says that He doesn't really need our worship either & understands our human need to worship something. This is why He wants to be the first one worshiped. As far as I reckon in this case, it's not me praying to a different god.

Besides that, Thomas Jefferson freely admitted to be Epicurean, yet he also said:

I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.

But even more importantly & closer to the issue here, he also said:

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.

Maybe these persecutors should take a longer look at themselves before denigrating other people, huh?

Originally posted by Jsmallz
If there's a Separation of church and state, why do the court ask you to swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth so help you god

...I guess the god they are talking about is money

Because the courts aren't really following the Law either...Nowadays, they are fund-raising machines for the government.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't understand why some religious folks feel they need to gain permission to pray for someone.

It looks to me that they try to gain permission first so as to try avoiding making offense...But if merely the asking is seen as offensive then it looks like we deserve an NWO.

One of the NWO's goals is to wipe out all patriotism & all religion (except a fanaticism to the State). As God in the 1st Commandment understands the human need to venerate something better than themselves, the NWO power-brokers do too...They just want you to worship themselves above anything else. Persecutors of any stripe are merely buying into it all.

reply to post by Divinorumus


What you are describing sounds like voodoo,not christianity.The only
rattle that I have ever shaken has been a baby rattle.My church doesn't
allow dancing of any kind.My church doesn't chant,speak in tongues or
go all wierd over anybody.
We do pray for others,including those that hate us.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


The last time that I checked...Only muslims have been allowed to pray
in STATE run schools.The schools usually have a room where they can
go and pray.Christian children are NOT allowed the same privilege.If
you know of any public school that does allow christian children to pray
or read their Bibles,let me know.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Tell that to the muslims! Our political correctness is going to destroy us!

Originally posted by watcher73
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

I couldnt agree more with the bible in this case.

Its too bad xtians dont read it. It would solve a lot of their so called problems with the rest of the world.

There are different types of prayer.
1.Private time with God is in your closet.
2.Prayer over a meal can take place anywhere you are eating.
3.Prayer at an event,until the aclu stopped that.That has now been
reduced to a moment of silence please!

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by redoubt
What kind of people are we that we would find such a problem with someone offering a prayer for us?

As a Christian, would you be willing to have someone pray to the Goddess/Buddah/Allah on your behalf?

Or would you take issue with it?

A lot of truth to this statement.I would answer NO!I think the woman
should have prayed for the child during her own private time.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Faith based healing is based on the placebo effect.

Unfortunatley the teacher in question is ignorant and doesnt understand that if the child has no faith in your religion or god.... then it doesnt work.

You're wrong... The faith of the person praying is what counts and works!
Non-believers,atheists,occultists,sinners of all kinds are prayed for by
believers.God will only hear a believer and a repentant soul.

The only thing I have to say about this is that these kinds of incidents will stop happening when people of faith stop praying for us all. Thanks for the kind gesture, but I manage just fine without your prayer...just keep it to yourself and all will be fine.

This is such a joke. All she did was pray no conversion no sprinkling no nothing. The morons in charge there should be ashamed of themselves but I'm sure they have no shame. And fyi for those that don't know. Speration of Church and state means that the Church can't be controlled by the state and the state can't be controlled by the Church. Guess that leaves Vatican City out. Try taking a look at the Constitution or cracking a history book from time to time.

[edit on 10-04-08 by Beach Bum]

Originally posted by Aggie Man
The only thing I have to say about this is that these kinds of incidents will stop happening when people of faith stop praying for us all. Thanks for the kind gesture, but I manage just fine without your prayer...just keep it to yourself and all will be fine.

We are duty bound to pray for the lost.No one will ever manage just fine
without prayer.There will be peace and safety before sudden destruction!

Originally posted by mamabeth

Originally posted by Aggie Man
The only thing I have to say about this is that these kinds of incidents will stop happening when people of faith stop praying for us all. Thanks for the kind gesture, but I manage just fine without your prayer...just keep it to yourself and all will be fine.

We are duty bound to pray for the lost.No one will ever manage just fine
without prayer.There will be peace and safety before sudden destruction!

But why the feeling of necessity to tell folks you are praying for them? Looking for a pat on the back? Point is, as I stated above, pray all you want, but please keep it to yourself.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by Misfit

She asked if she could offer a prayer, she wasn't trying to convert them. Prayer does not dictate religion. I am perhaps one of the most anti-religious people at this site, but I pray.

Dude what is being overlooked here and is the cause of contention is the fact that individual who believe what they preach need not go around conducting ceremonies even if they appear to be insignificant.

If my kid was ill and you happen to be aware of this and took it upon yourself to internally say a prayer or do whatever juju is necessary, how could I possibly object? I wouldn't even know about it unless of course my child suddenly got well and you later claimed your juju was what did the trick.


Day in day out I get irate xtians informing me how they will prey for me, hey what the hell why should I complain if there's any truth in their claims then the more good luck I get the better.

But that's about where I draw the line, do what the hell you like in the comfort of your own mind but keep it there until asked.