Sacked for offering a prayer

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
What makes it confusing is the question why hospitals would punish a nurse for offering a prayer even while, at the same time, they allow clergy to do the same thing. I dunno, maybe it's a question of "demarcation," in that the nurse was crossing some kind of "professional boundary" over the clergy...

I think it's because this nurse most likely had a degree in nursing not theology. I think most hospital clergy would prefer patients be sent to them for their particular religious needs.

If this was simply prayer for someone going on a trip or any other normal event that would be harmless imo. We are talking about people who might be close to the end of their lives. We should leave it to hospital clergy to do what they have been well trained to do. A well meaning person could inadvertently say & do all the wrong things at a time in someones life when the harm isn't easily undone.

If left to regular hospital staff snake handlers, self proclaimed messiahs and yes even those evil atheists could be comforting/instructing. When you open the door for one you've got to let them all in.

I did a google on the power of prayer, and the endless sites of people claiming they were healed by prayer was mindboggling. Even doctors now believe in the power of prayer. And there are studies that show people who were prayed for had a higher recovery rate versus those who weren't.

And to think that woman lost her job.

I don't care for bible thumping but if someone asked, all that mother had to do was say no. she didn't need to make an issue out of it.

I wa like what...then I saw where this story came from...the UK. The sad reality is to alot of atheists any religious mention is offensive.

Did the teacher force the kids to pray? If not then whats the big deal?

Why is it that teachers can be fired for praying, but ever time I go to English class I have to listen to overtly liberal teacher preach the blessing of Obamacare?

Originally posted by Bombeni
And to think that woman lost her job.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
I don't care for bible thumping but if someone asked, all that mother had to do was say no.

I think I see that confusion creeping in again...

The nurse was temporarily suspended, but didn't lose her job & went back on duty. The teacher lost her job & is claiming "I'm being victimized" when the mother repeatedly told her to stop.

Have we got it straightened out again?

[edit on 23-12-2009 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

Originally posted by Bombeni
And to think that woman lost her job.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
I don't care for bible thumping but if someone asked, all that mother had to do was say no.

I think I see that confusion creeping in again...

The nurse was temporarily suspended, but didn't lose her job & went back on duty. The teacher lost her job & is claiming "I'm being victimized" when the mother repeatedly told her to stop.

Have we got it straightened out again?

[edit on 23-12-2009 by MidnightDStroyer]

Repeatedly told her to stop my ###, anyone who believes that can stand on their heads. A Christian would not REPEATEDLY ignore an admonition to bug off, no way, ain't happening. That mother was obviously a throwback of that nasty old departed Ohara hag and wanted to stir up trouble.

I may have been born at night but it wasn't LAST night.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Repeatedly told her to stop my ###, anyone who believes that can stand on their heads.

Did you read the actual articles linked from the OP? And then the additional link posted by BenevolentHeretic that brought additional news reports about the teacher? Apparently not. Here they are again:
Excerpted from the first link in the OP:

Maths teacher Olive Jones was let go from her job teaching children who were too ill to go to school after visiting the home of a pupil for a lesson and discussing her faith with the girl's mother.

In the OP, it did state:

...and asked whether she could say a prayer, but says when the mother said they were not believers she did not go ahead.

However, as quoted from BenevolentHeretics posted source:< br />

But speaking for the first time today Mr and Mrs Lynch said they had repeatedly asked Mrs Jones to stop discussing Christianity with their daughter - and were left with no option but to report her to the council.

Can you see that now? You're assuming one bad Christian is the same as many others who aren't. These are the only sources to go on & you deny them? Can we get back to the discussion at hand without further confusion?

No need to get hostile because you got the two different situations confused with each other. Even though the automatic censors caught your swearing, it's still against the ATS T&C.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by moocowman

 

Yo,moocow! Would you rather live in a country dominated by christian
values?OR...Live in a country under sharia values? Islam is the fastest
growing religion in the world.Tell me Moo,whose religious influence are
you most afraid of?

How about basic human values? religion being part of the past is useful to learn from, but that's about it.

Modern science and stuff shouldn't be open to arguments from ancient superstitious interpretations, lets learn from history, adapt to modern times and an evolve as a humanity.. hasn't history shown us division, tribalism & flock manipulation equals death, subjugation, wars on terror, left Vs right, christian vs sharia.. and all kinds of silly drama?

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by moocowman

 

Yo,moocow! Would you rather live in a country dominated by christian
values?OR...Live in a country under sharia values? Islam is the fastest
growing religion in the world.Tell me Moo,whose religious influence are
you most afraid of?

How about basic human values? religion being part of the past is useful to learn from, but that's about it.

Modern science and stuff shouldn't be open to arguments from ancient superstitious interpretations, lets learn from history, adapt to modern times and an evolve as a humanity.. hasn't history shown us division, tribalism & flock manipulation equals death, subjugation, wars on terror, left Vs right, christian vs sharia.. and all kinds of silly drama?

Call it silly drama if you want to, but there will be no end to the division and wars so long as people worship the creature (themselves) above the Creator. Do you really think your utopia will ever exist? What a dreamer! There will be shortages of food and water, the basics of life, and who gets those things will be decided by whoever has the biggest guns. Why would you think that will change with the absence of religion?

Originally posted by Bombeni
Repeatedly told her to stop my ###, anyone who believes that can stand on their heads. A Christian would not REPEATEDLY ignore an admonition to bug off, no way, ain't happening.

Well, I wouldn't have thought a Christian would say, "Repeatedly told her to stop, my ass" either, but we learn new things every day.

Besides, I have known MANY Christians who wouldn't stop when politely asked to.

Part of the story doesn't agree with your agenda, so you choose to deny it. That's cool. But highly transparent.

Originally posted by novacs4me
Call it silly drama if you want to, but there will be no end to the division and wars so long as people worship the creature (themselves) above the Creator.

It's interesting that you think there's any "worship" going on at all. Some of us don't "worship" anything. It's not necessary to live a full, productive, happy, healthy life.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by GovtFlu
How about basic human values? religion being part of the past is useful to learn from, but that's about it.

Actually, human beings want to believe in something greater than themselves, because it gives people a "goal" to motivate themselves. It's because of this desire to better ourselves that creates Laws & Religions...It's an attempt to advance in better understanding ourselves & each other & to arrange some common agreements on how we would like to interact with each other.

In essence, the creation of Laws & Religions are the mechanisms that humanity uses to advance in social evolution. It progresses like this: The desire to better oneself combines with the common human goal for bettering ourselves as a group (individuals join with other forward-looking people)
...This creates some common agreements among people as to how to treat & interact with each other (the creation of "social structure")
...Humanity is a tool-making species, so we create the "tools" to spread social interaction & "ground rules" for better common behavior (we write laws & enforce them through governments: we work through religion to establish churches for the mutual support & the advancement of social culture)
...The more we can equitably interact with each other, society evolves whcih leads back to better understanding of ourselves & each other (Social Evolution).
In short, governments & churches are humanity's "tools" to advance in our social evolution. It's a self-feeding cycle that cannot be stopped because it's the "nature of the species."

The problem with Laws & Religions come when greedy, self-serving people "infiltrate" the organized forms of Law (government) & Religion (church); they "rust & corrode" our tools for social evolution. They twist & pervert the common goals to their own personal benefit. This is why society as a whole, must also learn vigilance against these minority corrupters. Too often we make the mistake of lending too much secular Power to our organizations (& by default, the corruptors within them) & that's when the suffering starts. In short, what happens is that people create organizations in the desire to advance in social evolution, but the few corruptors actively work to suppress social evolution; They can't stop it, but they succeed in slowing it down. How do they try to stop it, only succeeding in slowing it down? They keep us divided & ignorant...Division by emphasizing our differences instead of strengthening our commonality...Ignorant by keeping control of information & determining who may or may not access it. These have been the two main strategies that the corruptors have used, down throughout the history of humanity...Isn't it time that we stop this "social suppression?" As far as knowing the history surrounding our created governments & churches goes, yes we can learn from history what mistakes to avoid in the future...But only if we continue to practice vigilance against the corruptors that pervert them.

Thomas Jefferson summed it up much better than I when he said:

Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.

We the People create these organizations & We the People have Power over them, "to alter or abolish" them for the Common Good. Attack not our tools for social evolution...Attack instead those corruptors that seek to corrode our tools from within.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Bombeni
Repeatedly told her to stop my ###, anyone who believes that can stand on their heads. A Christian would not REPEATEDLY ignore an admonition to bug off, no way, ain't happening.

Well, I wouldn't have thought a Christian would say, "Repeatedly told her to stop, my ass" either, but we learn new things every day.

Besides, I have known MANY Christians who wouldn't stop when politely asked to.

Part of the story doesn't agree with your agenda, so you choose to deny it. That's cool. But highly transparent.

Originally posted by novacs4me
Call it silly drama if you want to, but there will be no end to the division and wars so long as people worship the creature (themselves) above the Creator.

It's interesting that you think there's any "worship" going on at all. Some of us don't "worship" anything. It's not necessary to live a full, productive, happy, healthy life.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

No worship? Well, that is purely semantics. If YOU are the authority for what is right or wrong, and not God, then YOU have made yourself your own god.

well they sure make weston-super-mare seem full of madness. either religious madness or politically correct madness. then again weston-super-mare is a mad name for a place. must attract all the nutters. i wont be going there on holiday

Originally posted by novacs4me
Well, that is purely semantics. If YOU are the authority for what is right or wrong, and not God, then YOU have made yourself your own god.

Semantics, indeed. I am not a "god". I am only the authority of what's right and wrong for ME. Each person decides what's right and wrong for them, even if that decision says that they will read a book to determine what's right and wrong for them.

But you are entitled to your views.

Honestly I really don't care if someone prays for me. I consider it wishing me well. On the other hand there are some from other beliefs that consider Christian prayer to be curses placed upon them. One of the Native American groups I'm familiar with would equate, "May I pray for you?" the same as "May I place a curse upon you?" They consider placing prayers regarding conversion, matters dealing with sickness, to be curses unless the person is kin or close friends. They have had some very bad dealings with religion in the past and consider Christianity as evil. That is their way.











[edit on 28/12/09 by toochaos4u]