An open letter to ALEX COLLIER

Originally posted by NightVision

Originally posted by djcubed

Which many other members also agree upon and have stated in multiple responses to your nonsense.

Check some of the stars on top of my posts as compared to yours. I can aquaint you with what this means as you are a new member here.

At least when I say something on here... I mean it... I don't go back on what I said within the next minute. It's called integrity.

I've never gone back on my word. So are you, or are you not part of thr DRK? I checked your website. You've been revealed, sir. The DRK bylaws indicate that no member is allowed sexist behavior.

DJCubed's lyrics: "Tina, you fat lard. Go get your dinner..."

By your own criteria. You should be banished from your club as well.

It's called integrity.

Back on topic: Try using a source outside of ATS when reference Alex Collier, not a simple google search. Its a bit of an amateur move.




[edit on 31-12-2009 by NightVision]

I refuse to play games with children... Your stars mean nothing because your posts have no substantial evidence to back AC's claims. In fact only Alex does. You are doing research into my background and are obviously failing with your misquotation. Your intent to get personal so as to eliminate my credibility is wrong on so many levels.

I will not continue to post on this thread (and I mean that... integrity) because of your inability to debate the topic at hand. I will however post anything you want to know about my music, my life, my friends, my job, my work on alt nrg, and my views on the current state of world that we live in under another topic you create. Just let me know. Truth being I have better things to do than point out to you the evidence to back Alex Collier being a fraud, not because I feel you have provided substantial evidence to back your claim.

I would never make a debate personal as you have... I feel it has already ruined this thread. U2U me anytime you want to really talk about my Very Real and Very Interesting Life... that (get this) does not involve talking to aliens.

Good luck Mask I'm out of this one... Wasting my time!~

ALKDTID

Originally posted by djcubed
Truth being I have better things to do than point out to you the evidence to back Alex Collier being a fraud, not because I feel you have provided substantial evidence to back your claim.

I never claimed Collier was legit or not legit. I stated in this thread that I am upholding a 'standard' of debate. Standards the believers and skeptics alike uphold. Standards that appear to have no value in your world.

I would never make a debate personal as you have...

I simply asked if you were part of the DRK or not. Do not deflect the issue. And do a better job next time hiding yourself. Thank you for leaving this thread to the authentic ATS members. Now we can discuss this topic without distraction.

reply to post by NightVision


You have made it clear that you "think" any member of this "DRK" is by default, not allowed to have thoughts, opinions and ideas on a forum...you have also misquoted, misunderstood and misrepresented a dogmatic system of a group you know nothing about.

I see you really think "you" are somehow the police of "who is allowed" to have "views" and "who is not allowed to have views".

You have been a very disruptive little poster with a personal agenda OF ATTACKING THE FOUNDATIONS OF A SOCIAL GROUP while all the while ignoring the thread's subject...good job my friend...and you call for serious debate? I do not see you looking for anything like that here.

On topic...I would like to add-

Alex has said many things that have been proven wrong or failed in his predictions of the near future (now past). His words are ones that have failed to provide serious proof, truth or actual outcome.

You can see many seriously disturbed (and by that I mean they are very concerned and scared) individuals that flock to Alex for his insight on very "radical" subjects.

He tells people he knows where thousands of missing children are (but HE is not ready to share the info on where they are...not right now)

He says aliens have taken over the governments of the world and have plans to destroy us all...(yet, he says the information was delivered to him via mental meetings with aliens inside his head, and ON BOARD space ships).

Alex also says, that there are giant ships right now surrounding our planet and delivers not one bit of proof. He makes it clear you can see them for years now, with the naked eye, yet he can't provide one decent picture of such things.

If anyone wants to compare these sort of things with "belonging to a band" or "levels of debauchery in art"...then that is their right to do so...but fact remains, artistic antics (however raunchy and/or silly) do NOT amount to the level of "BS" that comes with swindling thousands of people into buying Alex's stories that inflict fear and paranoia in the minds of people willing to blindly except his tales.

Art is art...you can not judge/control/mold it to fit into your preferred/sheltered niche. No one can.

But what ONE can do, is demand truth. Unlike art, truth is not a cloudy thing of fancy and whim...it is hard, factual and "correct".

I make "art"...Alex makes "lies" calling them truth.

Art is imagined and then created.

Truth is not invented by artistic drive or creative frolics of the mind...truth is truth, and to defy it is to "lie" or be "ignorant" of it.

Keep the topic drifting towards witch hunts and artist-bashing...it dosn't bother me. I live in a world of it and am never shocked to meet the thousandth-and-one person to "mock my life style" or choices of affiliation. People who endlessly draw attention to such activities do me and many others a great service in opening their mouths to judge us.

But Alex does nothing but spread big fat lies with a fear-agenda attached to it. There is no grace of art in concocting tales of terror and alien take over.

Sorry...art is allowed the acts it takes in effort to express one's soul.

Lies are just dangerous sentences that seek to blind and confuse people for selfish reasons.

Kind of like how many times "you" have lied thus far in this thread.

Enemy of art...fine.

Enemy of truth...not so fine.

PS-Three times this thread you have made reference to your stars you get. You really think those stars mean "something", don't you? Token-economy has you real good, eh? Let us BOTH hope flags n stars are meaningless, because I'm new on this site and greatly ahead of you on both stars and flags...I would hate to think my "meaningless rants" were worth more to the community of ATS then your "in-depth and fair" debating skills and riveting post work.

[edit on 1-1-2010 by Mr Mask]

[edit on 1-1-2010 by Mr Mask]

[edit on 1-1-2010 by Mr Mask]

reply to post by djcubed


Cube, oh, I understand your frustration with the little trolling spree here.

Just know, that the "group" you belong to is enough to erase your "opinion" on any matter...so it seems.

I wonder if it works for other groups to?

YOU are a vegetarian...your views on Alex are worthless.

YOU are a Christian...your views on Alex are worthless.

YOU are a Republican...your views on Alex are worthless.

Yeah...that seems like it may be a broken form of logic...I wonder how hard it is to go through life disallowing people "opinions" based on their affiliations.

OH wait! This is a famous tactic used throughout history and even still this day.

I understand now.

Originally posted by light2012
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

You absolutely are a closed minded 10% brainer unfortunately that is how ignorance and primitive people stay primitive. Why don't you read outside the box. And open your eyes this universe is infinite and full of m

If gaining a higher percentage of "brain" involves wasting serious moments of life on giving Alex "serious" consideration...chalk me up as a "happy 10% brainer".

I rather have 10% firing off correctly then 11% following this wack-nut's unprovable claims of impossibilities.

A few conclusions from trawling through this thread:

1. I have watched a lot (not all) of Alex Collier's material and find him to be interesting, reasonably succinct and outwardly genuine. Do I believe that what he says is true? No, because I have no proof, no evidence and nothing to substantiate his claims beyond his own word. This doesn't make him a liar however; I merely consdier it prudent to remain objective when faced with the supernatural. This doesn't mean, however, that he isn't everything he says he is. It's just another piece of the puzzle.

2. Mr. Mask's point is moot because he has surrended this objectivity and constantly accused Alex of lying when he hasn't got any basis for doing so other than his own prejudices and some secondary sources from people who have tried to discredit him. This doesn't mean that Mr. Mask is wrong as Alex Collier may well be a big fat liar... but he doesn't know that for certain any more than I do. Even if Alex did read the Meier material, even if he did change his name... is it not possible that he could still have had these experiences?

3. The burden of proof is indeed with Mr. Collier but clearly he has no proof, so it's up to you to decide whether to take what he says on board or not. He is not fearmongering, in fact he encourages you to retain your objectivity. Attacking him in this manner however, is immature. If you don't like the material, dismiss it accordingly and move on, don't immediately dismiss it to the World as hookum because YOU didn't like it.

4. Attacking Mr. Mask's little music group in this thread was unnecessary and off-topic (in spite of his earlier bragging):- I think it's "fair" to "say" that the only thing getting "raped" by him is the quotation mark.

Originally posted by grandfather paradox

2. Mr. Mask's point is moot because he has surrended this objectivity and constantly accused Alex of lying when he hasn't got any basis for doing so other than his own prejudices and some secondary sources from people who have tried to discredit him.

This would possibly be a stronger point to make if the fact that "Alex has been wrong many times" with his predictions in the past. Unfortunitly (for Alex) he has been caught red-handed in sharing years of false predictions. Here are just a few that have ruined his creditbility in the past years.

1) New York City will be gone by the year 2000.

2) Earth Changes from the Andromedan Perspective
with the Expulsion of ET Races by 2003

3) Between June and October of 2003, there is a strong probability that the moon will vanish overnight.

4) Between 2003 and 2007, many alien races are going to surround us. We will see them, but they will not interfere.

5) Between 2004 and 2007, all DNA coding in humans will unlock giving us all the racial memory of the 22 races our DNA is composed of. By 2007, everyone will have full memory of who they once were, where they came from and what they need to do. You will know what your "soul-lesson" is and your reason for being here.

6) Between 2007 and 2009, if it is allowed to happen naturally, we are supposed to have a 17 degree pole shift. Saudi Arabia is supposed to become the new North Pole, which is great. Bury those oil fields nice and deep. We will have free energy by then, anyway. North America is supposed to be on the equator.

7) There is a high probability that in July 2003, we will also have a magnetic pole shift, and it will be the first one in 4,671years.This will impact all electromagnetic devices on the planet. Animals will be lost. It will throw off everything.

8) Between 1996 and 2012, some of us on the planet are going to be fluctuating betweenoptically being visible and non-visible on a physical basis. Fluctuating between dimensions. There are five individuals on the planet who do this already. Many of them will be children, who will reveal what they have learned during their fluctuation in order to try and help their parents get there. Many children born today already have 3 strands of DNA. I am told you don’t need the other strands. All we need is one more, and its all happening. (note- we STILL have time for THIS ONE to happen...what say you?)

--------------------

NOW that is just a small handful of his poppycock predictions all failed. There are many more and all are just as obserdly impossible and laughably so.

Any single person here can enjoy a small dance of pointing at "me" and saying exstreamly baseless things like "well the burden of proof is on you, not Alex" or "You can't prove aliens are NOT visiting him in his head, so shut up until you have PROOF!"

I will simply shake my head in dissipointment at those types.

You were born with a choice...grow up as an ignorant tool who is easily hoodwinked and guided towards false understanding - or - grow up to be a thinking creature that uses his/her mind to find truth even in the face of misleading lies.

If any individual finds my words on Alex to be a tad harsh or too quick to judge...that is your right.

Just know that you have MORE then enough information at your finger tips to come to a suitable conclusion on this wack-nut.

Alex is a a man who lies to sell his book, his speeches, and his image (people still say he dosnt sell things....funny). Not only does he lie to do this, he chooses the mentally unstable, the hopefully ignorant to spread his poison cocktail of crap.

Let us NOT forget that he admits to knowing where thousands of our children are currently being held against their will...and then adds- "He isn't ready to tell us where, or share why the children are being held".

How nice of him...HE isn't ready to disclose such information. Sweet!

Yeah...Mr Mask wins this...hands down.

Go ahead, research my personal life, slander my name and the band I am in. Sure! Make my personal life and the activities within it a public circus for MORE PSYCHOS to join in and mock.

It won't change the fact that Alex is a vampire who sucks pennies and attention from people so hopeless and lost that they support his selfish agenda blindly and without question.

Sorry...I do not "high-five" the art of scamming.

And I sure in hell don't think "my life" has anything to do with the criminal activity of "knowingly" misleading thousands of gullible people to serve one dangerous man's selfish desires and/or agenda.

reply to post by Mr Mask


You're right, your personal business has absolutely nothing to do with Alex Collier's integrity or lack thereof. Unfortunately you must accept that when you pour such vitrol over an individual and speak in such nasty terms, you are leaving yourself open to the same treatment. I highly doubt anybody on this thread would have bought your own credibility into disrepute if you'd posted a comprehensive, dispassionate and unbiased debunking of Alex Collier instead of an angry, emotional rant laying into his ability as a father etc... I'm afraid you reaped exactly what you sewed.

BUT, your last post was what I was looking for, a list of tangible reasons to doubt Alex's credibility and a fair assessment of why he may be a hoaxster or a madman. I have to admit that I was unaware of all of these failed predictions (although I don't have time to confirm that he said all these things myself) and it does upset me when 'contactees' or false Messiahs make these grandiose claims and then brush them under the carpet when they don't happen. This does put his credibility into question in my mind and I thank you for doing a decent job of posting some meaningful reasons to doubt him.





[edit on 4-1-2010 by grandfather paradox]

reply to post by grandfather paradox


Angry rant?

Never been angry online in my life...

Ok...there was that one time when I spent forever to download a season of Dr Who and when I opened it it was the wrong season...but other then that, I dearly say- You have added emotions to my words that just are not there.

I "do" understand where you are coming from.

But I think you are wrong.

Posting anything on an internet forum is no excuse for "researching my personal life" and then trying to "add" it to this thread.

If one wanted to post about "my life" or the group(s) I frequent, such a thing should be posted in a thread about such a topic...not in a thread that is obviously about Alex Collier.

I understand "some" may think there is this universal law of karma going around, and if Mr Mask posts a harsh critique of a hoaxer or whatnot, that said law should be invoked to balance "the force". But no...topics are to be upheld and stayed upon.

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Yeah...Mr Mask wins this...hands down.

Yeah, okay, you win this one, Masky-Mask.

Want a biscuit?

reply to post by NightVision


Truth is NOT objective. Only metaphysical truths are objective. Gravity exists, there is no discussion nessacary . It is the truth.
Alex Collier is a liar and a fear monger, this is also the truth. If he were anything else, he wouldnt be so discordant, make so little sense when his speeches are examined with logic, and the barest understanding of science.
There are people on this planet who have had direct and provable contact with alien species or craft, and have burns and marks on thier bodies to prove it. Mr Collier on the other hand has NOTHING . Not a damn thing. Not a landing site and radar return record, no burns, no physical or testable proof WHATSOEVER. If he was as tight with his alien buddies as he says, he would have something some shred of proof. He has not. He has alot of hot air and not alot else.
I would love to hear about someone who has really been around the solar system on an interspecies joyride, but he is not the flyboy in question, and his bull is an insult to every believer in the UFO community . This requires no discussion, it is just the unfortunate truth.

Originally posted by MajorDisaster

Yeah, okay, you win this one, Masky-Mask.

Want a biscuit?

Hell yes I do!

What flavor?

reply to post by Mr Mask


Err, no comment

I like you, Masky-Mask, so I won't say anything too mean-spirited

alright those last 2 post were actually funny; as Larry the Cable Guy would say " Now that was funny, I don't care who you are, that was funny"

I could only imagine what Major had going through his mind then

Mr. Mask, you have brought this thread back on topic, and provided what I had hoped to see you continuing to do. I can say that IMO that you have remained true to your self and the person you are, trying to say what you had to say in any other way would not have been you.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it appears to me the final straw for you seemed to be the "missing children" statements that were made, I agree with your opinion of Alex, and have refrained from using that part of the debate due to highly emotional personal experience, and the emotion would no doubt be seen in the words, felt it better be left unsaid from me.

Carry on.

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear

Mr. Mask, you have brought this thread back on topic, and provided what I had hoped to see you continuing to do. I can say that IMO that you have remained true to your self and the person you are, trying to say what you had to say in any other way would not have been you.

I fully agree with this paragraph 100% and think you rule for typing it!

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it appears to me the final straw for you seemed to be the "missing children" statements that were made,

Absolutely. Yes, the whole "I am Alex Collier, and I know where your missing children are, but I am not ready to disclose that info" really is the clutch statement that earned Alex this thread. Imagine the audacity it takes to look parents in the eye and say something as messed up as that...now imagine the incredible insincerity and heartlessness it took to say it in the first place.

For that alone, the guy should be arrested, locked up and removed from the society he preys on.

Harsh? Oh yes...but all that tender-hearted PC crap goes right out the window when you start selling "false hope" to parents who have lost their children.

How sick and sinister can a man be?.

Disgusting.

I agree with your opinion of Alex, and have refrained from using that part of the debate due to highly emotional personal experience, and the emotion would no doubt be seen in the words, felt it better be left unsaid from me.

Bingo. Emotional pain and distress can be the only final outcome for anyone looking towards Alex for life guidance. And god help those who see him as their only hope for finding their lost children.

Carry on.

Thank you Sir...I surly will try to do so, well within the laws that govern this great site. I wish you a happy New Year and will surly be seeing you throughout it here on ATS.

Originally posted by MajorDisaster
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

Err, no comment

I like you, Masky-Mask, so I won't say anything too mean-spirited

Awesome! Because, I also appreciate your posts and welcome you in any thread I start (even when you strongly disagree with how right I often am). Of course, I do not envy the mess you have to wade through, seeing as every thread I make is fluff and usually filled with more banter then facts. But hey! We can't all be writers or professional researchers.

I will say, I also enjoy the title "Masky-Mask". I'd keep that one if it was my choice.

I can live without the biscuit...if I have to.

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Absolutely. Yes, the whole "I am Alex Collier, and I know where your missing children are, but I am not ready to disclose that info" really is the clutch statement that earned Alex this thread. Imagine the audacity it takes to look parents in the eye and say something as messed up as that...now imagine the incredible insincerity and heartlessness it took to say it in the first place.

For that alone, the guy should be arrested, locked up and removed from the society he preys on.

Harsh? Oh yes...but all that tender-hearted PC crap goes right out the window when you start selling "false hope" to parents who have lost their children.

Sometimes it really is best not to know some things.

Suppose, just hypothetically speaking here, that the children are being dragged off to Dulce base or somewhere like that, molested, tortured, genetic and cybernetic experiments performed on them, maybe even being fed to Reptoid aliens for lunch or something - would you really want to have that knowledge?

Would it help you sleep better at night knowing that?

Maybe that's why Alex didn't really want to talk about it at this latest Camelot conference. Maybe that's why he just went "it's Sick, Oh God it's Sick..... we humans are being used as a resource and that's all I want to say about it".

Can't say I blame him either.........

reply to post by MajorDisaster


Hypothetically speaking...ok...for fun.

If Alex was so interested in "not hurting" our fragile earth psyches by withholding where our children are (and what is being done to them), why is he SO forward with spreading the rest of his super-doom?

I mean...we are going to be farmed by aliens, attacked by our own government (who are also aliens) and there is nothing anyone can do (but flock to Alex for advice and insight)...BUT, what is happening to our missing children here on earth is TOO SICK to share?

Yeah...the guy is disgusting.

Originally posted by Mr Mask
I mean...we are going to be farmed by aliens, attacked by our own government (who are also aliens) and there is nothing anyone can do (but flock to Alex for advice and insight)...

When did he say that?

The whole theme of his speech at Awake and Aware was self-empowerment, not pandering to a guru.

What are YOUR thoughts on how to create a new monetary system? What are YOUR thoughts on how to free ourselves from slavery? Encouraging people to think and act for themselves is decidely un-guru-like, Masky-Mask.

BUT, what is happening to our missing children here on earth is TOO SICK to share?

Yes, unless you're prepared to round up some people and go storm the Dulce base tomorrow? (hypothetically speaking)

Originally posted by MajorDisaster



When did he say that?

Oh come now...lets all agree to say "Alex has eluded to, or outright said, EVERYTHING I am saying he has. If you missed where he said aliens run our government (early on within the newest speech), or if you fail to see his "oh-so-urgent" message of the horrible "bad-aliens" (cus some are bad, and some are good, as he assures)- then what part of his speech DID you hear and then agree on?

The whole theme of his speech at Awake and Aware was self-empowerment, not pandering to a guru.

If self-empowerment was this man's agenda, do you think I would be here typing about him this way? Really? Do you assume that I have an agenda against empowering people? If so, can you explain to me why I took a bankrupt lie-dealer as my first target?

No...seriously...his message is not one of empowering anyone but himself. He shares made up fantasy and leeches power from it. Lies bring no one closer to power then the tellers of the lie.

What are YOUR thoughts on how to create a new monetary system?

My thoughts on monetary wealth are radical and impossible in this world. I do not give speeches to the humans on this planet saying "I have the answer to fix the world's disgusting need for wealth". If I did, I would be a liar, selling a scam, or a kook who dreams impossible things.

What are YOUR thoughts on how to free ourselves from slavery?

Are we slaves? Perhaps you are a slave, but I have lived (and will continue to live) a very free and happy life. If I am a slave to anything, it is my own weakness and faults. I find it odd when people talk of world enslavement. I agree there are messed up powers doing messed up things...but these wrists have never been chained, and I have done too many examples of freedom to consider us "slaves".

But, Incase you meant "what are my thoughts on how to escape misery, enjoy life and free one's self from spiritual/mental darkness or overpowering hopelessness"

I have many detailed thoughts on such issues. Sadly, they are off topic and this thread's title is not "What Mr Mask thinks about cheering up and finding inner peace".

Encouraging people to think and act for themselves is decidely un-guru-like, Masky-Mask.

Like I have said before...his message doesn't begin or end at "think for yourself". If it did, I would like to think that "I am a good enough person" to not have attacked him for his lie-infested speech if its only message was "think for yourself".

Yes, unless you're prepared to round up some people and go storm the Dulce base tomorrow? (hypothetically speaking)

Hypothetically speaking- I wouldn't raid a snack-bin under the pretense of Alex pointing to it and telling me there was a bag of chips in there.

Let me ask you a small thing?

WHAT THE HELL would a man HAVE to say for you to assume he was lying?

How much further would Alex have to go to just have you drop the hypothetical semantics and the silly what-ifs?

If he said aliens laid eggs in your left foot and put a homing signal in your right, would you then feel safe in calling this man what he "hands down" truly is?

When do "you" say- "ok...I'm not foolish enough for THIS"?!

And though I used the word "foolish", I take you as no fool.

Just honestly...where do you draw the line between "possible" and "total BS"?






[edit on 6-1-2010 by Mr Mask]