An open letter to ALEX COLLIER

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear

Other than a blatant attempt to personally attack me, you have completely missed the point and concept in which I was trying to make:

How did I attack you? I criticized your ability to make a valid argument. There's a difference. You shouldn't take things so personally...

Which is, Mr. Mask did not come to his conclusion from just one single episode of Alex, it was made over time, from listening and some research(how much we really don't know)

Oh I see..and you are his spokesperson now. I take it you guys know each other and communicate on a regular basis?

I have only attempted to show that Mr. Mask has apparently done some research in which his opinion has been derived.

Now this should be good, considering Mr. Mask hasn't watched a single one of his videos from beginning to end, nor has he provided any links whatsoever to back up his claims....

As well, I did provide links that some statements asking for proof should satisfy, atleast to some degree.

You may want to re-read the links you provided...again...and again....any reference to invasion was of an historical nature, not future. As well, it is second hand info.

You presume too much or derive pleasure from attacking someone instead of debating opinion.

I used simple facts to prove your debate and cognitive functioning skills need improvement. I didn't realize you were so sensitive about the issue. My apologies.




[edit on 29-12-2009 by NightVision]

Originally posted by NightVision

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear

Other than a blatant attempt to personally attack me, you have completely missed the point and concept in which I was trying to make:

How did I attack you? I criticized your ability to make a valid argument. There's a difference. You shouldn't take things so personally...

a: telling me I'm a fool as well as Mr. Mask, based on what- I am still to figure out, as you gave no indication in anything I actually said to create that opinion

Which is, Mr. Mask did not come to his conclusion from just one single episode of Alex, it was made over time, from listening and some research(how much we really don't know)

Oh I see..and you are his spokesperson now. I take it you guys know each other and communicate on a regular basis?

a: I have spoken with Mr. Mask a few times, that alone does not make me one's spokesperson, nor does defending someones opinion make me such.
Also the views he gives to form his opinion did not come entirely from the one video he linked to in his OP. Logical conclusion = has done at the very least some research.

I have only attempted to show that Mr. Mask has apparently done some research in which his opinion has been derived.

Now this should be good, considering Mr. Mask hasn't watched a single one of his videos from beginning to end, nor has he provided any links whatsoever to back up his claims....

a: what do you call the video in the OP, also to note it is unwise to make statement of opinion as statement of fact

As well, I did provide links that some statements asking for proof should satisfy, at least to some degree.

You may want to re-read the links you provided...again...and again....any reference to invasion was of an historical nature, not future. As well, it is second hand info.

a: I also stated that they were excerpts, excerpts by the very nature will not be in the entirety, however if you had truly read you would have noticed that the making slaves of us would not occur until a one world government or reenacted second coming, neither which has happened, so how is that past.

You presume too much or derive pleasure from attacking someone instead of debating opinion.

I used simple facts to prove your debate and cognitive functioning skills need improvement. I didn't realize you were so sensitive about the issue. My apologies.

a: Your use of simple facts in no way prove that I'm not able to debate or have cognitive functioning skills, You may have done better if you had not completely dismissed the base premise of my post; which you have done repeatedly. Also I have noticed that you have a repeated habit if dismissing any part of ones post that would make your rebuttal either inaccurate or highly opinionated while attempting to claim it as fact.

Sensitive, in case you have not noticed, I have not resorted to name calling in anyway, and have given my opinion, shown links(though you disagree)in answer to request, and have really enjoyed this.
[edit on 29-12-2009 by NightVision]

to show I'm not sensitive, nor can you upset me please refer to my signature.

On Topic: I restate my opinion once again, Mr Mask does seem to have gone overboard with his portrayal of his opinion, however I do agree with the base premise of his opinion through my own research and study of Alex Collier.

Originally posted by djcubed
I'm calling BS on this name calling because of the band that you are in!~ That's like hating on Larry Clark for writing 'Kids'... or saying that Justin Pierce (the kid who plays Casper in 'Kids') is a scumbag and you would never listen to his opinion in REAL LIFE. Movies are Movies... Music is Music... Entertainment is Entertainment!~

Ones creativity can't be used against him in a valid argument and point of view. Another great example is Trey Parker and Matt Stone... regardless of the cartoons they portray on television you know that they are REAL PEOPLE with real opinions right? I think any more discussion of what band you are in should head to another ATS topic as it has no relevance to your arguments.

The fact that AC is not in a movie, song, or story and trys to make his real life into one is the real topic of discussion here.

G'day djcubed

Thanks for your well thought-through reply

However I diasagree that I am off-topic

The op was very aggressive towards Alex Collier - aggressive enough that the op's character became part of the issue, when trying to understand where the op "was coming from".

That downriverkillers stuff is not like Southpark...it's not even close.

How far should we take things?

What if a person makes a snuff movie?

Do we then say "oh we gotta listen to 'em 'cause that was only entertainment & they still got real opinions an' feelings an' all"....?

My conclusion is the op has disempowered his argument by:

1. Writing with such anger

&.....

2. Proactively sending ATS members to the downriverkillers site.

I'll finish by stating again that I am no fan of Alex Collier.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by Maybe...maybe not]

Lesson to be learned here... if you're going to fake aliens talking to you... Don't do it around Mask or he'll be pissed!~ Although I agree that there are much better topics he could be writing pages about. Too bad his computer $#!T the bed!~

I think this thread should be moved back towards the "Project Camelot" crew really starting to fall apart this year. Maybe if they never shot this never-ending-video-of-nonsence we would have never had to deal with the complete taredown of this old man.

reply to post by Monts


I think it may be that Alex Collier and pretty much all the rest of the alien spiritualists have just gotten up OPs nose just lately . I can understand why , and to be honest , if you look at the questions posed in this rant Im sure you will also understand.
Collier represents a segment of the UFO intrested community who quite frankly give a bad name to any of us who also require scientific validation of anything we are asked to believe. He does quite frequently make reference to holographics without any in depth explanation of what he actualy means by what he is saying. He cannot in all truth explain what use a cabbage patch will be in a gunfight with an extra terrestrial commando , and unless hes prepared to make clear his meaning in what he says, I believe that the OP is right to be angry with him. Hippy bull is no replacement for facts and figures, and it sure isnt denying ignorance.

reply to post by FlySolo


Denying ignorance comes before debating skills. In this Mr Mask has shown himself adequately armed. Truth requires no discussion.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by FlySolo

 

Denying ignorance comes before debating skills. In this Mr Mask has shown himself adequately armed. Truth requires no discussion.

Well said!~

Computer still broken, so this will be short but to the point(s).

1-Alex says he spent over a year on a space ship. He has said we are controlled by aliens, are in for an invasion AND that certain alien races want NOTHING more then to destroy us (and are on the way). No I wont be sharing the direct link to each fricken quote...watch old Alex and his dozens of videos, speeches, and HIS BOOK...yeah...book. I noticed some posts ago people defended Alex for "not selling things".

2-I noticed a lot of people using the "band" I am in to defend Alex. That is pretty silly. "Drinking the blood of Kilrhackzox" somehow makes Alex true, or more "trust worthy"? No...I am afraid that is incorrect. Using my band to discredit my "thoughts" on Alex is absolutely hilarious. Hitler said molesting children is despicable and that smoking cigarettes was unhealthy...did his sins and crimes make those statements less true? I shall hope not.

3-Using the band I am in as a deflection of point is not going to save Alex from the truth...the truth IS he is lying. Pointing towards my strange activities in life in no way changes the score here. Score is-

Alex says he spent 13 months on a space ship...he did not.

I say "I drank the blood of Kilrhackzox"...I have.

Alex says Aliens have invaded us, and currently controlling us in an epic plan to do us harm in the near future...He has no proof and such things demand proof.

I say "I'm a downriverkiller" (never capitalized and one word)...and I am. No proof needed...its all there.

Alex says-The more you drink, the more you see aliens. Nice!

I say...the more I drink, the more DRK seems fun, bouncy and full of good friends and music.

Score seems fine to me...glad to be DRK and not AC.

4-Saying I have done no research is as silly as bringing up the band I am in. I am in a band that says things most would find "pornographic" or "angry"...boo hoo...really now...I am not going to begin defending ART to anyone who demands ART to meet their personal "standards".

Alex is not sharing ART...nor music...nor entertainment. Iron Maiden shares satanic verses with the masses through art and song...it dosn't make them anything less then "humans" with an artistic drive. Alex shares what he calls facts...and he scares the crap out of folks who are looking for "honesty" and "truth".

That is fraud...and fraud is a thing I do not take kindly to.

5-Lies are wrong and should not be sold or used to provoke fear. I am a scum bag and a sick-mouthed lil sucker on a Mic...but I am not trying to "save humanity" with the music and circle I am part of. We do not walk the world trying to topple every psycho's sense of safety or try to cloud their reality with lies created from thin air.

Huge difference between making raunchy music and telling people that aliens are stealing tens of thousands of our children world wide.

Holy crap man! Are those of you who are attacking my personal life "working for AC"?

THE MAN SAYS ALIENS ARE STEALING OUR CHILDREN AND KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE, BUT REFUSES TO TELL US WHERE!

Have you any idea how messed up that is?

Far more messed up then "making songs about messed up thoughts".

Lastly...

Thank you to all those who understand that "I am not a debater or a lawyer" My posts are fluffy and worthless, uppity and badly written, sometimes foul and almost always over the top.

I am not here to give leeway or credit to sham artists or kooks. I surly don't give a DAMN about "anyone" who is trying to connect "my band" with "proving Alex right".

I am simply a man on earth, who refuses to listen to dangerous hucksters who spread terror and confusion through lies, without typing or speaking against it.

No please...feel free to promote our band further, if thats what you insist on doing. You do a great many artists a "credit" when you do so.

But don't think a "band" makes a "scammer" legit.

It dosn't work that way.

Ok...happy new year! Computer is broken, when it is fixed Ill have more time to post "how I feel" about all these "fake" fear salesmen and the hogwash they spread.

PS-MR MASK RULES!

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Mr Mask]

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not


2. Proactively sending ATS members to the downriverkillers site.

I have not done such a thing. Those posting "against me" to "discredit me" have done so, and done so more then a few times thus far in this thread.

I have tried (and failed) to have all posts (including mine in defending against such posts) removed. No worries.

The last thing I need to do on ATS is promote what is doing fine without gathering more attention here.

If you have problems with performers posting here...you have a big problem (there are many).

If this entire site is reserved for non-stage types...then please point me towards a conspiracy site that "allows" performers to have opinions without their "art" being used to discredit them on such.

Thank you.

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Mr Mask]

Originally posted by TrueBrit

Denying ignorance comes before debating skills. In this Mr Mask has shown himself adequately armed. Truth requires no discussion.

Incorrect. Truth is objective. And if truth requires no discussion, I guess we can all leave ATS. A quick browse thru Mr. Mask's posts on this thread, and I doubt you'll retain the notion of Mr.Mask being adequately armed. The condoning of rape, drinking blood, etc....I take it u guys know each other?

I'm not even going to give this thread any more of my time and effort. Neither of you can demonstrate the ability to source yourselves, thoroughly research a topic, nor thoroughly read thru threads.

It's like debating a 5 yr old over the existence of Santa.

Originally posted by Mr. Mask
The last thing I need to do on ATS is promote what is doing fine without gathering more attention here.

Yet that is exactly what you did. YOU brought up the topic. Sold out shows across America. All the fans u could ever want. You own merch line. The irony of all of this is that you're lying about your status to begin with. You've never even toured outside of CT. Nor do u have anything on itunes or albums to sell. Just 2 t-shirts, a few stickers, and a hamburger cook-off you throw every year. And your website boasts 60+ members....am I lying?






[edit on 31-12-2009 by NightVision]

Originally posted by NightVision
The condoning of rape, drinking blood, etc....I take it u guys know each other?

No song or practice of DRK promotes or condones rape or blood drinking. Again, you slander and do so badly. If you fail to understand the meaning of a song, or the effectiveness of dogmatic practice or metaphorical rituals within a group, I can not make you understand.

I'm not even going to give this thread any more of my time and effort. Neither of you can demonstrate the ability to source yourselves, thoroughly research a topic, nor thoroughly read thru threads.

So if someone disagrees with you, they are "unable to read" or "practicing bad research skills"...I see...good to know. Must be all that Iron Maiden in your brain. Lord knows they have worse things to say then I ever will.

It's like debating a 5 yr old over the existence of Santa.

Sigh...we agree there...and I strongly suggest you stop leaving cookies for the guy...he is NOT real and he is NOT watching you from the South Pole.

Thanks for officially bowing out of this thread...perhaps now it can remain on topic and not drift towards your obsessive interests in "the band I am in".

Back to Alex and his claims of alien invasion, aliens stealing thousands of human children, his year on a space ship, and all the secret meetings with aliens who have warned him of the "end".



[edit on 31-12-2009 by Mr Mask]

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Mr Mask]

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Mr Mask]

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Mr Mask]

reply to post by NightVision


You change your posts way too often to have any discussion with you. Lucky you are quoted in other posts that you can not retract your words from.


Also...did you just say DRK never toured? Are you saying 27+ bands in a group have not toured? Not one of us under the emblem of our guild?

Sigh...I will not use this thread to brag about the achievements of our amazing circle of talented individuals.

This is about Alex...not you...not me...not DRK...not tours or anything silly like that.

YOU are promoting DRK here...not me.

And we ALL thank you for that.

Originally posted by Mr Mask
No song or practice of DRK promotes or condones rape or blood drinking. Again, you slander and do so badly. If you fail to understand the meaning of a song, or the effectiveness of dogmatic practice or metaphorical rituals within a group, I can not make you understand.

Of course. My mistake. The meaning of rape in your music is so vague...

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Also...did you just say DRK never toured? Are you saying 27+ bands in a group have not toured? Not one of us under the emblem of our guild?

Oh, I take it, you are taking credit for your friends creative endeavors and not your own? How noble.

Sigh...I will not use this thread to brag about the achievements of our amazing circle of talented individuals.

...

This is about Alex...not you...not me...not DRK...not tours or anything silly like that.

that's good. Don't bring it up again.


...back on topic....



[edit on 31-12-2009 by NightVision]

Originally posted by NightVision


Of course. My mistake. The meaning of rape in your music is so vague...

Thank you for admitting your mistake.

Lets move on.

I'm not even going to give this thread any more of my time and effort.

LIES!~ ALMOST AS BAD AS ALEX!~

reply to post by NightVision


I have been a reading member of ATS for years... Over these last few days I have created an account to speak on a variety of topics. Mainly on the Steorn Orbo topic. Who I befriend on this site will not get me banned sir. Bringing up the valid point that you lie (or don't speak the truth) when you type into an ATS forum, via the last statement I pointed out, is a much more valid point to go on than your DRK rape accusations trying to dismiss Mask's point. Which many other members also agree upon and have stated in multiple responses to your nonsense. As well as siting where to research ACs claims and how we have come to this conclusion.

At least when I say something on here... I mean it... I don't go back on what I said within the next minute. It's called integrity. Google it along with the words "Alex Collier Fraud".

Or check and see what ATS said back in 2008... www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Back to Alex and his claims of alien invasion, aliens stealing thousands of human children,

Well, suppose there is a race, or race(s), of ETs who like to eat us for lunch. (Reptoids?)

Do you think they'd prefer to eat adult humans tainted by years and years of breathing in toxic, poisonous air, drinking toxic, poisonous water, and eating toxic, poisonous food - or would they prefer to eat young, pure, untainted children?

And then there's all those thousands and thousands of children who inexplicably go missing every year...... hmmmmm................

For the love of God!!

Discuss the topic, not the poster, isn't that the rule?

ENOUGH of the off-topic crap already!!!