Christianity, Satans Greatest Deception

apollo is apollyon in the book of revelation 9th chapter. so yeah, the book acknowledges other gods (more than once).

see "The Divine Council"
tiny.cc...

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

You believe every word I have to say...except for when it comes to God.

So...I will digress and say that I believe every word you have to say...except for when it comes to God.

No I believe every word you say, even that you believe in god. Why wouldnt i believe that. You have made it evident in you posts that you believe in god. My not believing in your god is separate from me believing you. I have no reason to doubt anything you have said.

You believing something doesnt make it true but I have no doubt that you believe what you say.


Side note, i find a friendly irony in the name you use in this forum and the number of pages that we have continued to disagree.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage

No I believe every word you say, even that you believe in god. Why wouldnt i believe that. You have made it evident in you posts that you believe in god. My not believing in your god is separate from me believing you. I have no reason to doubt anything you have said.

You believing something doesnt make it true but I have no doubt that you believe what you say.


Side note, i find a friendly irony in the name you use in this forum and the number of pages that we have continued to disagree.

Ironic, yes.

With further elaboration, I completely digress.

However, I'd like to add that you not believing me, is not at all separate than you not believing in my God. He is in me and speaks through me at times. However, that statement is up to you to believe or not so...I suppose I'm going to create a paradox quite soon.

I suppose we can simply
A2D

reply to post by jinx880101

No wonder people don't agree with Christians, they think everyone else is influenced by Satan but forget to look at their own and see the problems.

With this thread I was hoping to learn why Christians put so much faith in their own religion and deny all others. Why are they right and all others wrong? I used the bible and Christianity as my example because it is the predominant religion of the west. I could have just as easily flipped this thread around from a muslim perspective as to why they feel they are right and all others are wrong but I figure i would get a larger pool of discussion from the Christianity side.

I was posing this question because these are the questions that should be asked. Religion of all faiths has a huge impact on the world today and very few who believe stop to ask why? And many fail to use logic and critical thinking when they do ask questions.

Big, world wide decisions are made in the name of religion(all of them) and I think it is reasonable to ask these questions about the existence of a god or the possibility that a specific religion could be wrong. Faith is fine when it remains within your own head but the decisions that are made in the name of faith affect me personally and I think critical thought should be applied to everything. Even if it stings.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by iamcamouflage]

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by jinx880101

 

No wonder people don't agree with Christians, they think everyone else is influenced by Satan but forget to look at their own and see the problems.

With this thread I was hoping to learn why Christians put so much faith in their own religion and deny all others. Why are they right and all others wrong? I used the bible and Christianity as my example because it is the predominant religion of the west. I could have just as easily flipped this thread around from a muslim perspective as to why they feel they are right and all others are wrong but I figure i would get a larger pool of discussion from the Christianity side.

I was posing this question because these are the questions that should be asked. Religion of all faiths has a huge impact on the world today and very few who believe stop to ask why? And many fail to use logic and critical thinking when they do ask questions.

Big, world wide decisions are made in the name of religion(all of them) and I think it is reasonable to ask these questions about the existence of a god or the possibility that a specific religion could be wrong. Faith is fine when it remains within your own head but the decisions that are made in the name of faith affect me personally and I think critical thought should be applied to everything. Even if it stings.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by iamcamouflage]

I agree Christianity is a disgrace. Its all about power and gathering disciples to make a fortune. Its like the churches wants us to obey It rather then God. The Vatican is a good example. The pope proclaims he is God on Earth.

Jehovah Witesses like the name states are not witnesses of Christ, they think Christ is the Angel Michael like some recarnation or something and they deny the Holy Spirit.

That is not true, I brought up as in that religion & have never heard of that....they don't even believe in re-incarnation. I don't know where you heard that but it's not correct.

The difference between Christians and J W

1. Do not celebrate Birth days- Only place in the bible where a birthday was celebrated was when John the baptists head was offered on a silver plate as a gift.

2. Do not celebrate Christmas- No where in the bible does Jesus command us to celebrate his birthday. (no-one really knows when he was born) He commanded us to celebrate his death.

3. They pray to Jehovah through Jesus name. Jehovah is the almighty God & Jesus is his son.

4. They do not pray to a trinity. Nor do they deny the holy spirit. They Believe these are all separate beings not one being as a trinity.

reply to post by jinx880101


"Do not celebrate Birth days- Only place in the bible where a birthday was celebrated was when John the baptists head was offered on a silver plate as a gift."

Umm...actually there are 3 accounts of birthdays if I am not mistaken.

Of course John the Baptists beheading on Herod's birthday..which is found in the gospel of Matthew.

There is also a second birthday in the book of Job in which Job mourns the death of his children due to birthday celebration.
Also, in Genesis, the Pharaoh celebrates his birthday by beheading his chief baker.

Awesome stuff!

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Sorry, my bad!

But I've never heard of the rest! Which scripture would I find that?
But it's interesting about the faro, never knew so many birthday celebrations involved death.

Originally posted by iamnot

Comparing this to the tree of knowledge, sure you want your children to explore and learn but there are things you tell them not to get their fingers into, like the electrical socket or rat poison.

Or eat raw shellfish, you didn't get the whole of my post. I don't think that's the type of hidden knowledge. The moral of the garden story was don't question authority or you'll wind up thrown out on your asp! Follow blindly, have faith. So, don't question god and god is actually the tribal wise guys. That's why there are inconsistencies in the scriptures. It's not god, it's men. Some good, some bad just as you've experienced in your own life. And like I said earlier, we cherry pick the good/logical parts of the scriptures and largely ignore the others.

The greatest deception of all is that there is not Satan and there is no Yahuwah. If one makes the argument that the bible along with Christianity is false than what would you hope to put your faith in? Now to say we interpret the bible incorrectly or to say that bibles written after Christ might have been incorrectly transcribed... Well now that would be a very good argument/discussion. However, to say that the bible and the teachings from Christ are of Satan... that sounds exactly like something I would say if I were a Satanist or some other faction looking to spread distrust and unfaithfulness...

Im sorry but I have to say I could not disagree with you more on this topic.

[[[shrug]]]

Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Sorry, my bad!

But I've never heard of the rest! Which scripture would I find that?
But it's interesting about the faro, never knew so many birthday celebrations involved death.

No need to be sorry friend.

The scriptures are Genesis 40:10-23(pharaoh) of course Matthew 14:3-11 for John the Baptists beheading and finally Job 3 in which Job curses the day that he was born for the death of his children. Job 1:4 is the passage in which you can see Job's children celebrating their birthdays.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by dusty1

 

I thought god was omnipotent? How could he allow Satan to affect his creation?

The only "knowledge" God wanted to keep from humans were things like death, suffering , sorrow, grief, murder, rape, disease, hunger, We could go on and on.

Why would god, an omipotent being allow satan, a mere fallen angel, to create death, suffering, sorrow, grief, murder, etc.?

I was under the impression that god created everything, so why did he create satan?

And created the tree and left it there for them to mess with? Like telling college kids "Do what you want but don't touch that keg!" Oh and by the way "God" also created "things like death, suffering , sorrow, grief, murder, rape, disease, hunger, We could go on and on." If "God" didn't want us to have those things "He" made them for what reason? Got bored making all the good stuff? In my opinion nobody made anything accept for vast fortunes off of rubes telling myths and fairy tales.

the bible sells the idea of an off planet savouir god...distant and unreachable except through an intermedeary.ie priest,etc...the whole idea of christianity is to stop people from using their imigination/stop thinking for themselves...how many times have you heard some weakminded person say"oh,i don't have to think/worry about that,I"M SAVED"...the crucifixion was a soul-deadening ruse....it was not jesus christ who was crucified,IT WAS HUMAN IMIGINATION..............look where the idea of salvation and heaven is waiting for us has got us....the oceans are dying,the rain forests are being destroyed...but hey,don't worry,,it's gods will,and besides I'M SAVED>>>WHAT ? ME WORRY....if any of you want to look further into what i have writen here you might want to read a book by JOHN LASH called NOT IN HIS IMAGE....he also has a web site but i can't recall it right now..i'm too busy being SAVED.

THE WORLD goes on within you and without you..g.harrison

Originally posted by Hemisphere

And created the tree and left it there for them to mess with? Like telling college kids "Do what you want but don't touch that keg!" Oh and by the way "God" also created "things like death, suffering , sorrow, grief, murder, rape, disease, hunger, We could go on and on." If "God" didn't want us to have those things "He" made them for what reason? Got bored making all the good stuff? In my opinion nobody made anything accept for vast fortunes off of rubes telling myths and fairy tales.

In every sense of the word you can't "CREATE" death, suffering , sorrow, grief, murder, rape, disease, hunger....etc etc. Those come from "knowledge". The knowledge has always been but at first it was kept secret in heaven. The watchers(or satans, or fallen ones, whichever you prefer) as described in the Book of Enoch are the ones that brought that knowledge to earth.

Tell me...how does one "CREATE" knowledge?

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

I do not believe you for a minute. If there were 10,000 year old manuscripts describing E.T's helping humans with technology MANY MANY MANNNY(esp here at ATS) would consider it to be the missing link. So many people WANT it to be true that they will dive head first without even so much as testing the waters.

There are numerous scriptures and glyphs from pre-Biblical times of a god or gods and we now ignore them. I wouldn't test for proof of their existence with my "heart" either.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by Hemisphere

And created the tree and left it there for them to mess with? Like telling college kids "Do what you want but don't touch that keg!" Oh and by the way "God" also created "things like death, suffering , sorrow, grief, murder, rape, disease, hunger, We could go on and on." If "God" didn't want us to have those things "He" made them for what reason? Got bored making all the good stuff? In my opinion nobody made anything accept for vast fortunes off of rubes telling myths and fairy tales.

In every sense of the word you can't "CREATE" death, suffering , sorrow, grief, murder, rape, disease, hunger....etc etc. Those come from "knowledge". The knowledge has always been but at first it was kept secret in heaven. The watchers(or satans, or fallen ones, whichever you prefer) as described in the Book of Enoch are the ones that brought that knowledge to earth.

Tell me...how does one "CREATE" knowledge?

Of course "I" can't but all things are possible with "God", no? Then again I think you can create peace, love, comfort, understanding and so why not the negative aspects of life? You're picking nits with the word "create" though aren't you?

"The knowledge has always been"? What!?! Who left it where the watchers, satans, fallen ones could take it? Who allowed them to take it? Who exactly is running this show? You are simply twisting things for your convenience. "God" is infinite, infinitely powerful and everything material and immaterial is attributable to "Him". Accepting this one thing "knowledge". Knowledge always was just like God? Are you trying to equate "God" and "knowledge"? Where are you going with this?

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Of course "I" can't but all things are possible with "God", no? Then again I think you can create peace, love, comfort, understanding and so why not the negative aspects of life? You're picking nits with the word "create" though aren't you?

"The knowledge has always been"? What!?! Who left it where the watchers, satans, fallen ones could take it? Who allowed them to take it? Who exactly is running this show? You are simply twisting things for your convenience. "God" is infinite, infinitely powerful and everything material and immaterial is attributable to "Him". Accepting this one thing "knowledge". Knowledge always was just like God? Are you trying to equate "God" and "knowledge"? Where are you going with this?

Knowledge is an attribute of existence. It's really quite simple I do not know why people don't comprehend this. It can be shared and uncovered, but not created because it was manifest through creation.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

Originally posted by grail
the bible sells the idea of an off planet savouir god...distant and unreachable except through an intermedeary.ie priest,etc...the whole idea of christianity is to stop people from using their imigination/stop thinking for themselves...how many times have you heard some weakminded person say"oh,i don't have to think/worry about that,I"M SAVED"...the crucifixion was a soul-deadening ruse....it was not jesus christ who was crucified,IT WAS HUMAN IMIGINATION..............look where the idea of salvation and heaven is waiting for us has got us....the oceans are dying,the rain forests are being destroyed...but hey,don't worry,,it's gods will,and besides I'M SAVED>>>WHAT ? ME WORRY....if any of you want to look further into what i have writen here you might want to read a book by JOHN LASH called NOT IN HIS IMAGE....he also has a web site but i can't recall it right now..i'm too busy being SAVED.

THE WORLD goes on within you and without you..g.harrison

That's interesting. We had heaven and gave it away for the promise of what was behind door number 2.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Of course "I" can't but all things are possible with "God", no? Then again I think you can create peace, love, comfort, understanding and so why not the negative aspects of life? You're picking nits with the word "create" though aren't you?

"The knowledge has always been"? What!?! Who left it where the watchers, satans, fallen ones could take it? Who allowed them to take it? Who exactly is running this show? You are simply twisting things for your convenience. "God" is infinite, infinitely powerful and everything material and immaterial is attributable to "Him". Accepting this one thing "knowledge". Knowledge always was just like God? Are you trying to equate "God" and "knowledge"? Where are you going with this?

Knowledge is an attribute of existence. It's really quite simple I do not know why people don't comprehend this. It can be shared and uncovered, but not created because it was manifest through creation.

OK I'll bite. God exists, do I have that right? And so He has knowledge attributed to Him through existence. And He brought man into existence to have some knowledge but not other. No sense to that. He was able to keep some knowledge to Himself for a while but not always. What is and isn't within His power?

Originally posted by Hemisphere

OK I'll bite. God exists, do I have that right? And so He has knowledge attributed to Him through existence. And He brought man into existence to have some knowledge but not other. No sense to that. He was able to keep some knowledge to Himself for a while but not always. What is and isn't within His power?

I cannot say what is and isn't within His power. As far as I know, everything is within His power.

From what I understand, knowledge in heaven was shared with(or manifest in) the angels. It was only trivial knowledge though, as in stuff that WE know now. I can't really explain it. It's very difficult.