Christianity, Satans Greatest Deception

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

Someone here at ATS has the signature "I reject your reality and substitute my own".

I think that works here.

It's clear to me that anyone that does not believe, does so out of their heart. It's not because of "evidence" because truly the evidence is there, just not in the sense that you WANT it to be.

This works both ways. Why dont you believe in greek gods? Because the evidence is there, just not in the sense that you WANT it to be.

When you understand why you dismiss all other Gods but yours, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage

I influence the outcome in the same way god would, I am privy to the outcome in advance, so its irrelevant as whether or not i have a quarter in each hand or 1 million in each hand. It doesnt matter, i'm not deceiving you because if i know the outcome, you can ONLY choose that outcome, otherwise you have disproved my omniscience by choosing something that I did not know.

Oh my...I don't know how else to say this. You just cannot see beyond your own eyes.

Explain to me how God alters the outcome. He doesn't force you into picking a quarter. By substituting that quarter YOU DID FORCE IT.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Again I would like to ask how you separate not believing someone and at the same time not thinking they are a liar.

What evidence are you using to not believe me? Saying you dont believe what i say is implying(very directly) that I am a liar. And this would seem that you are casting judgment upon me without actually knowing me. You are making the assumptions about me when i have given you no reason not to believe me. My non belief in a your god or any others that man has spoke or written of validates that I would not believe any ancient written text, even if it made me feel warm inside.

Someone could hand me an ancient text that said, I was god or the new messiah and I would not consider it evidence of truth. Anyone, can write anything and it doesnt make it true, no matter if it was written 5 minutes ago on this thread or 10,000 years ago. I'm sorry something being written down
is not evidence.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


So...let's waste more time. You say what I say and then I'll repeat it back to you. Sounds like a fun game to me....

reply to post by iamcamouflage


No, I am not implying you are a liar. I am simply implementing my free will to choose not to believe you. Just as you do to my God.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

Explain to me how God alters the outcome. He doesn't force you into picking a quarter. By substituting that quarter YOU DID FORCE IT.

The outcome is altered because god already knows how you will pick.

You are taking the quarter example literal and its not meant to be taken literal. Its a thought experiment.

You have stated that god knows the outcome of your choices. Right?
So even if I have a quarter in one hand and 1 million in the other hand, if i already know how you will choose. Then you dont have a choice.

God can have the deny quarter in one hand and the accept quarter in the other and if god already know how you will pick then you never had a choice. Only the illusion of choice. There was never a choice because god knew how you would choose.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


How is KNOWING what you pick, MAKING your pick FOR you?

OOOOH me me me me me....


IT'S NOT.
What more do I have to say?

reply to post by Darth Lumina


Awesome post. I'm not saying that I agree with it in terms of historical accuracy, but it's certainly spot on IMO in what it's main points were, which I thought were....

The answers to our biggest problems is in our hearts already, and God, whatever God may ultimately be, can be found there as well. Ritual is a device to make us look outward instead of inward.

I've often wondered why churches don't hammer those points, as the Bible does make reference to both of them. Jesus himself is quoted as saying the Kingdom of Heaven is within you. Yet, it also says that the heart is desperately wicked. One has to wonder why Jesus would be contradicted so blatantly.

A very cool story for teaching these concepts, thanks for posting it.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


The difference is that I dont believe these things, you do. The onus is on you. I'm repeating what you said back and replacing your god with any god to show that your argument does not hold up.

The evidence that you have given me for the existence of your god, is the same evidence given by other beliefs and religions to show the existence of their gods.

So why do you deny the existence of greek gods? According to your standard for evidence, greek gods are just as likely as the Christian or muslim or hindu gods.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


There are many gods but only one God Almighty. I do not deny the existence of other gods.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


I have nothing to do with other peoples god's. They aren't the ones that fill my heart with joy. My evidence is in ME, so how is their evidence for their god the same as mine? You can't even compare the two because they are personally-subjective and not empirically-objective.

I know my God is true because He's the true one for me. You can do as you wish and so can others. Who knows, your god could be different or nonexistant, what does that matter to me? On the same note, what does my God matter to you if you don't even think He exists?

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

No, I am not implying you are a liar. I am simply implementing my free will to choose not to believe you. Just as you do to my God.

Your not believing me, directly implies that I am not telling the truth. If I am not telling the truth, then by definition I am a liar.

Is there a way to believe someone and at the same time think they are lying.

You are using semantics to avoid directly calling me liar but by definition, you not believing me says you do not think i am telling the truth and if i'm not telling the truth i'm am lying?

Fortunately I am telling the truth and you can decide if you want to believe me or not but it is you cast judgment and assumption upon me. So dont try and claim that it is anything different than what it is.

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

There are many gods but only one God Almighty. I do not deny the existence of other gods.

How are you certain that your god is the one almighty god and not the others. Because they claim the same thing, that there god is the one God Almighty.

What leads you to choose your god above all others?

reply to post by iamcamouflage


No.... I simply don't believe you. Are YOU calling ME a liar?

edit to add: this is what you do to me...run in circles and refuse to listen

[edit on 26-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

I have nothing to do with other peoples god's. They aren't the ones that fill my heart with joy. My evidence is in ME, so how is their evidence for their god the same as mine? You can't even compare the two because they are personally-subjective and not empirically-objective.

I know my God is true because He's the true one for me. You can do as you wish and so can others. Who knows, your god could be different or nonexistant, what does that matter to me? On the same note, what does my God matter to you if you don't even think He exists?

Exactly, the evidence that you are providing is a non provable evidence. And thats fine. If your god makes you happy thats great. Truth does not change from person to person. True is true and false is false. This is the basis of logic and critical thinking.

I have no concern with your god until i have evidence to prove his existence. But if you may or may not have noticed, this country and the world are greatly impacted by the masses belief in gods. The belief in these gods has a direct influence upon the world that i live in. So when people want to carry out acts that effect me in the name of their god, i have a problem with that.

And I created this thread because i wanted to discuss what made people so certain of the bible. I was asking a question that has been asked for centuries in order to see if people wanted to discuss the logic of belief systems. If you believe in the god and the devil and that the devil is able to deceive, than you must question whether or not your bible is the greatest deception. The belief in the bible and its god have an impact on my life and I feel like these questions must be asked.

Would you be ok with politicians or judges basing their decisions and the actions of this country or your community on the belief in greek gods? Or Allah? or The spaghetti monster?

What if it was decided that greek gods were going to be taught in a science class?

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

No.... I simply don't believe you. Are YOU calling ME a liar?

edit to add: this is what you do to me...run in circles and refuse to listen

[edit on 26-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

No not at all. I believe every word you say, as i have no reason not to. So you think i'm telling the truth but i'm just confused? Or i dont know what i'm saying? If you dont believe what i say, than I'm either ignorant or lying.

So which is it? Do you think i am ignorant or just a liar. Because I must be either one for you not to believe me.. Unless you have some other way to define a reason for not believing someone. If you do please explain.

Seriously, answer that question? If you dont believe me, do you think i am a liar or ignorant? Or if you have some other reason for not believing me please explain it because i'm not aware of any other justifications.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage

Exactly, the evidence that you are providing is a non provable evidence. And thats fine. If your god makes you happy thats great. Truth does not change from person to person. True is true and false is false. This is the basis of logic and critical thinking.

I have no concern with your god until i have evidence to prove his existence. But if you may or may not have noticed, this country and the world are greatly impacted by the masses belief in gods. The belief in these gods has a direct influence upon the world that i live in. So when people want to carry out acts that effect me in the name of their god, i have a problem with that.

And I created this thread because i wanted to discuss what made people so certain of the bible. I was asking a question that has been asked for centuries in order to see if people wanted to discuss the logic of belief systems. If you believe in the god and the devil and that the devil is able to deceive, than you must question whether or not your bible is the greatest deception. The belief in the bible and its god have an impact on my life and I feel like these questions must be asked.

Would you be ok with politicians or judges basing their decisions and the actions of this country or your community on the belief in greek gods? Or Allah? or The spaghetti monster?

What if it was decided that greek gods were going to be taught in a science class?

Those who don't believe aren't the only ones affected. Those who do believe are just as equally affected by those who do not. It's a dog eat dog world.

Would I be okay with it? Absolutely. What the hell do I care? I am not here to find God for those people. I cannot do that for them. Of course, I would feel bad for them but what can I do? If I try to help am I not influencing their choices just as those who forced greek gods to be taught in schools?

They were given their own reason, logic, and intellect, and I would hope that they would not forsake it.

It is sad to say but I can only live my life for myself unless someone accepts what I have to offer.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


You believe every word I have to say...except for when it comes to God.

So...I will digress and say that I believe every word you have to say...except for when it comes to God.

What leads you to choose your god above all others?

reply to post by iamcamouflage


I know Him.

I ask myself, why would a being create all that exists? He would do this out of love. He would have to invent the idea of "others" and cause them to become, thus he invented the concept of putting others before oneself. Existence would be for their benefit not His. It had to have been alot of work. He would have to answer alot of questions. He would have no "need for companionship" that is something for creation. Of course he could have created a bunch of yes men without free will. However he wouldn't have been doing creation much of a favor. Would you rather spend your time with people that HAD to be with you, or wanted to be with you?

He would know it is in everyones best interest to do what He says, because He knows what is best for them. He is their Designer and He would make life worth living.

I appreciate the gift of life I have received.

Of all the books written, I think the Bible explains what went right, and why it went wrong, in a way that makes sense, to me.





[edit on 27-11-2009 by dusty1]

reply to post by resonance

also..satan making a false religion that completely agrees with the OT makes no sense...if you want to find satans false religion..look at Islam..hate to say it..but thats his work in the mainstream today

I can't believe you actually just wrote that. Islam is not the most dominant religion worldwide, Christianity is. No wonder people don't agree with Christians, they think everyone else is influenced by Satan but forget to look at their own and see the problems.