Christianity, Satans Greatest Deception

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Is it unreasonable to believe that Christianity is the devils greatest deception?

Well, if I were Satan and a master of deception, that's what I'd do. People would be reluctant to follow him if he said, "hey everybody, look, I'm Satan!".

Given how nasty most hardcore Christians are, I think you're dead right.

I would say it would be more accurate to state that organized religion is the work of the Devil. It is the best way to corrupt the original idea of the faith.

Remember Jesus himself had an issue with organized religion. So maybe the very creation of the Bible is the work of the Devil, fully understanding that stopping people from asking questions is the foundation of deception. Seeing as every organized religion becomes evil very quickly, wouldn't it be logical to say its the Devils playground.


" THE WORD OF GOD IS WRITTEN ON THE HUMAN HEART, NOT BY THE HAND OF MAN "

"Satan? Only him or someone like him would want us to live like this, as ignorant slaves, totaly dependant on him\them.

What knowledge is kept from us? We did all you say in your post not that long ago and it is our never ending increase in knowledge that has us living in the world we live in today, but if you wanted to go back to basics it is all there just waiting for you to learn it as our ancestors did.

Satan also represents total freedom i.e. total Chaos. Pure freedom to do anything you want, any time to anyone without remorse, whether it is a choice of good or evil."

[edit on 27-11-2009 by Xtrozero]

The New Testament says quite clearly that one day (presumably when we're dead or reincarnated) we'll know everything (not much point knowing everything in hell). So it admits that we are kept ignorant on many topics.
Christianity also represents total freedom/chaos. No matter what you do, you can simply pray for forgiveness. You can be Hitler or Stalin, but if you get "saved" before you die you'll go to heaven. It is true "satanic" chaos. No wonder it is so popular amongst the brainwashed armed forces - you can kill and go to heaven, while a pacifist Buddhist goes to hell!

The Devil is the source for all the social religions. The greatest deception he perpetrates is "As above, so Below". Which means that the lower regions are marketing scam, cheezy reproductions (reflections) of higher regions one after another. This misleads people into thinking that the region they occupy is their home and helps them to deny reality as they know it to be. The spirits have been habituated to these regions of darkness and convinced their in paradise lost rather than a foreign land unsuitable and unnecessary for their spirits long term well being.

reply to post by dusty1
some people do good out of selfcenteredness. just saying.

reply to post by technical difficulties

some people do good out of selfcenteredness. just saying.

Like when other people are watching? Or someone does the "right thing" so they can have eternal life?

They may look good on the outside. But if someones motives are not good, it eventually shows.

Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22 verse 37-40

reply to post by iamcamouflage


This is easily disproved without using a Bible...just logic and common sense. You suggest that satan (the antagonist of a theistic religion) came to earth to destroy paganism (an arguably atheistic religion). If that was the case, then satans very existance would disprove the atheistic religion because of the existance of a deity. Also, if satan was the one who spread the word, then why would he paint himself as the bad guy? He wouldn't destroy a religion in order to gain followers by spreading a book that taught that he was evil and that another being known as God is good. This, therefore, would prove the existance of God for the purpose of your argument.

If paganism, an atheistic religion, was true, then the idea that a deity came down from wherever in order to confuse the world and then turn people away from him by presenting the existance of another deity is absolutely nonsensical. If atheism is true and we were all meant to simply worship nature then the existance of any godly being would immediately disprove that.



[edit on 28-11-2009 by ravhen]

reply to post by iamcamouflage

Christianity, Satans Greatest Deception

How can you be sure that the Bible was not inspired by Satan? How can you know that the Pagan religion was not the one true religion

I am a Pagan and do not know what you mean by pagan religion, as if there were only one. Pagan by definition is provintial as apposed to cosmopolitan, so different in different areas and times.

and then Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet?

Very large portions of the bible were already written before Jesus spent time on earth.

Try not to use the Bible as a reference because, if the Bible was inspired by Satan then it could not be used as a source to prove that Satan did not inspire it.

It would be reasonable to assume that the doctrine of inerrancy is suspect. The individual pieces of literature were written for different purposes. Quite easily the fellows centuries later who said which pieces were included in the library, could have easily chosen pieces with a particular political spin that they liked.

Is it unreasonable to believe that Christianity is the devils greatest deception? And how could you know whether it was or not? If Satan is able to deceive, how can you know that you are not being deceived into believing and worshiping a religion that is actually inspired by Satan?

The short answer is yes, unreasonable. Christian history did not occur as a result of the New Testament. These works were written by the first and second generations of Christians. Christianity caused the New Testament, not the reverse.

Like Paganism, Christianity is not a monolithic structure. It exists in many sects with different beliefs and practices.

Assuming by devil/Satan you mean some character of a spiritual nature who hates God and people and desires and delights in human suffering, then it would be reasonable to assume such a character was involved in some of the destructive, inhumane history of Christianity.
Far from proving the New Testament was inspired by Satan, it proves the opposite. There is no call for or justification of land grabbing, wars, torture or killing in the New Testament. Therefore Satan is not the inspiration.

Those who call themselves Christian and engage in world domination through violent means are not Christian at all according to the Christian scriptures. If Satan were behind both you would expect them to agree, but they really are opposite.

If by Christianity we mean people and groups who believe and follow the New Testament, then we must assume the other group (land grabbers, violent overlords of the Earth calling themselves Christian) are anti-Christian.

If the definition of Satan is agreed upon, then it would be reasonable to assume anti-christian was inspired by Satan and therefore New Testament and Christianity are not.

reply to post by pthena

I have found some verses in the New Testament that are quite disturbing to myself: Jesus denies that he brings peace, but a "holy sword' that will even tear families asunder: Luke 14:26-27; Matt 10:34-39. He also tells His followers to sell their garments to buy weapons: Luke 22:35-38.
He also does some other morally dubious things: see the widely available on-the-Internet essay by Bertrand Russel: "Why I am not a Christian".
Jesus has no clear message on slavery or a consistant anti-war/soldier stance.
Incidentally, He also doesn't mention abortion, tithes, pastors (only as viper-like pharisees), gay rights, just war, stem-cells or any of the other issues concerning the Christian Right today.
But why just the New Testament? Why include the rest at all? Except for spurning the "eternal" Sabbath and forbidding divorce, doesn't He say He intends to keep all the laws of Moses? And those laws are totally criminal in a modern context, and they certainly allow for slavery and conquest.



[edit on 30-11-2009 by halfoldman]

reply to post by halfoldman
I'm not sure what you want.
1) defend the whole New Testament?
2) prove the New Testament doesn't have any violent imagery?
3) claim that Jesus had something to say about everything?
4) say that Jesus was bad for helping people on the Sabbath?

My post was merely an attempt at reasonable refutation of claim that Satan inspired Christianity. If you have a proposition for me to consider please state it. Otherwise I don't know what your real question is.

reply to post by pthena

Firstly I wanted to be in this debate about whether a good or evil deity wrote the Bible, mainly to rehearse arguments that believers and atheists have every day. This is a long thread, and I have limited time. From what I recall you argued Jesus was good because He did not encourage slavery, land-grabs and so forth. Actually I think that argument has a lot of factual merit. Nevertheless, it also doesn't forbid those kinds of oppressions either. So that argument by itself is neutral - neither currently good or evil; pro or against.
My apologies, a post can sometimes lead to thoughts beyond the original quote.
I think if you go into issues beyond social activism (did Jesus come to be a social activist?), like imagery, allegory, metaphor and some of what you mention above, then you could go further to prove Jesus as a morally superior being to Satan (or whatever the evil polarity to good is).
Personally, to prove this I would focus on the parables in the Sermon on the Mount.



[edit on 1-12-2009 by halfoldman]

reply to post by halfoldman

Firstly I wanted to be in this debate about whether a good or evil deity wrote the Bible, mainly to rehearse arguments that believers and atheists have every day. This is a long thread, and I have limited time.

Yes, it is a long post. I didn't read all that came before, just responded to original post.

From what I recall you argued Jesus was good because He did not encourage slavery, land-grabs and so forth. Actually I think that argument has a lot of factual merit. Nevertheless, it also doesn't forbid those kinds of oppressions either. So that argument by itself is neutral - neither currently good or evil; pro or against.

I was actually speaking of the Bible and Christian church. Quite often Jesus said, "it's in the Law and the Prophets." He said after the Rich Man parable, "If they don't listen to the Law and Prophets, neither will they listen if someone comes back from the dead." He didn't attempt to say something about everything.

My apologies, a post can sometimes lead to thoughts beyond the original quote.

I'm glad you wrote back. I looked for you on other threads, and noticed that you started a thread on homophobia. This is an issue of importance which is not covered by Jesus directly. It is left for us now, because even the later New Testament writers didn't address it as Jesus would have liked.

I think if you go into issues beyond social activism (did Jesus come to be a social activist?), like imagery, allegory, metaphor and some of what you mention above, then you could go further to prove Jesus as a morally superior being to Satan (or whatever the evil polarity to good is).
Personally, to prove this I would focus on the parables in the Sermon on the Mount.

Yes, Jesus is morally superior, as long as you view morality as for the benefit of people, especially those in most need of help. Look also at stories of his deeds, (the woman caught in adultery, the man healed on the Sabbath) rather than visiting death upon these, Jesus focused on the human need and not the letter of the Law.
By extension, in the case of homosexuality, though condemned in the Law, and inadequately dealt with by New Testament authors, the example of Jesus would lead to a conclusion of inclusion rather than exclusion.
Jesus unites people, Satan divides into warring camps. Yes Jesus is very much superior.

reply to post by pthena

Good reply. Homphobia is not my ultimate focus, but it does concern me. For Christianity itself, I feel encouraged and lifted by the KVJ Matt 19:10-12. Nobody here can judge me for my interpretation.
Just saw another doccie on Aids (it's Aid's Day and I'm poz). Can one believe that "Christians" stood with posters outside hospitals that read: "AIDS: God says it kills all the right people!".
What is the difference between this "right-wingness" and the holocaust?
Nobody can blame a degree of hate for such "Christians", but the good news is: it's not the only way to be a Christian!
So thanks for that.

reply to post by halfoldman

Can one believe that "Christians" stood with posters outside hospitals that read: "AIDS: God says it kills all the right people!".
What is the difference between this "right-wingness" and the holocaust?

There is no difference except in political power to enforce such genetic cleansing experiments as conducted by the Third Riech, which after all was meant to leave a 'holy' remnant suitable to enjoy 1000 years of peace. If "right-wingedness" gains such political power, I'm afraid the result will be the same. That is why I identify such movements as anti-christian, for Jesus clearly stated that it is not the duty of his followers to make such judgments or cleansings.

God loves you. Jesus loves you. Peace

[edit on 1-12-2009 by pthena]

who is the accuser? from what i've read, the accuser is the law. had we not known the law, we would be innocent, according to the text. who established the laws? the same one that established "civilization", who gave us "knowledge" of good and evil.

i leave the rest of it up your research.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
How can you be sure that the Bible was not inspired by Satan? How can you know that the Pagan religion was not the one true religion and then Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet?

Try not to use the Bible as a reference because, if the Bible was inspired by Satan then it could not be used as a source to prove that Satan did not inspire it.

Is it unreasonable to believe that Christianity is the devils greatest deception? And how could you know whether it was or not? If Satan is able to deceive, how can you know that you are not being deceived into believing and worshiping a religion that is actually inspired by Satan?

without god we might as well kill ourselves now. CMON lets do it guys / girls. I mean we are all going to die/kill each other anyways. This planet scientifically is suppose to last a limited time.

Shoot, I mean by Darwins Theory, we are all Animals anyways. What do animals do? Well animals procreate and are generally peaceful and not beings of excessive unnecessary waste. So no, we are nowhere near as good as animals are in the sense of overconsumtion and waste by the wealthy 1% of the worlds population. Boo Sinners Yay the LORD GOD and the faithful followers of TRUE love of god.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Like you say in your favorite quote, "never argue with an idiot!" so I wont.

Heavy. Way to think out of the box and piss off some folks.

Darwinism was the way to destroy the Bible without using fire. Why would satan write the Bible and then destroy it?

Originally posted by daggyz
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

Like you say in your favorite quote, "never argue with an idiot!" so I wont.

Good job taking the high road. You could have just not responded, instead of insulting me.