Psychological Question

reply to post by femmefreud


EXCELLENT. At least he is aware of the seriousness of the problem. Sounds like. Would you agree?

The sleep issue is also a health issue. Her immune system is compromised, blunted by poor quality/amount of sleep.

How often does he get home? Is he stationed in the area? What is his job/rank in the Navy? That would give me some notion of what kind of role he might play in helping his Mom.

In terms of diagnosis . . . Certainly the profession would say that one needs a thorough face to face meeting etc. etc. . . . some might say with testing etc.

That's all nice and sweet and super responsible to a point. However, I don't consider it guaranteed that she would be willing to see a professional locally at all. IF SHE IS, WONDERFUL. GREAT. However, THAT PROFESSIONAL NEEDS TO BE UP TO SPEED, SKILLED AND EFFECTIVE with such cases. And, he/she'd best be a good match with her personality.

I don't know how easy it is to find such a professional where you are. I don't know her level of patience with that. Would the professional make a house call for a FAMILY INTERVENTION type meeting? How creative and flexible is the professional?

CERTAINLY A LOCAL PROFESSIONAL WOULD BE A HIGH PRIORITY TO BRING INTO THE SITUATION.

However, if she balks or if a suitable one is not found etc. etc. there is MORE THAN SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE THAT YOU HAVE CITED TO BE MORE THAN SERIOUSLY CONCERNED ENOUGH TO TAKE WHATEVER REASONABLE ACTION IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE ON THE PART OF HER LOVED ONES.

Her obsessions with the junk are well over the line into seriously clinical levels of disorder. Anyone thinking otherwise has either not been paying attention or is minimizing the reality about as much as she seems to.

I couldn't believe the stuffed tin man on top of the piles on top of her bed! Sheesh. What a picture. What do folks need--cries for help written in blood on her walls? Sheesh!

I say ignore their good intentioned cautions and do whatever appears to be best and most right for your beloved friend. You have more than sufficient cause.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Thanks Bo, I have plans in place for a intervention with friends and family, I have literature on it and some edited postings from you and others , We want to see what argument she has, if any, after she reads the matereial from the official compulsive hoarding website,, How can she deny it ? The symptoms they list and the details of the items hoarded and description of the home itself is like they have seen HER home, I dont see how she can deny what is right in front of her. BUT .. I expect her to because apparently that is part of the condition.

Depending om the outcome of this intervention, I am as we speak looking for a professional in the area specializing in this, And no her son is not stationed near here. he will be home at xmas. Thanks again , I will keep you posted

[edit on 18-11-2009 by femmefreud]

Hm...Was about to delete as old but decided to check back in for a last look.

Miraculous Spiral, you raise so many good points. I, too, am all about the "do no harm", and dancing to your own drummer, etc. I learned about "danger to self or others" many years ago, and respect it enormously. If someone is living a deviant lifestyle, and creating no harm to self or others, then by all means, leave them alone.

But what has been presented here seems to exceed what is acceptable as far as safety issues are concerned.

Someone is going to report this to the "authorities". Whether it is Adult Protective Service, or Environmental Services, or law enforcement, or all three. It will happen, if what has been described to us is the case, and I believe she is being honest in her descriptions.

The reporter can be a post man, a delivery boy, a neighbor, the plumber, or anyone who gets a glimpse inside the residence. It would be so much better to have this addressed by a good friend and family, then to have it put into an arena such as one of the above. This would entail court orders, and the like. Truely it does. A Judge can order the person for a psychological evaluation; for the adult children to "supervise" her; or that she be placed in an assisted living facility, or something of that nature. It can and does happen. Whether we like it or not.

Problems potentially created by Hoarding: creates problems when neighbors get rats. When there are paths only throughout the house, and the person could not exit swiftly in the event of an emergency. Paramedics couldn't get a stretcher in there. Those kinds of issues. Then there is the inevitalbe depletion of personal resources. I hope her children take a look at her credit cards. She may already be in over her head and nobody knows.

The "forced" solutions exist whether we like them or not. It's the way our society has been set up.

Remember we are not just talking about a "messy house with some clutter". We are talking about Hoarding, which is recognized as a viable Disorder. It's a symptom of other issues. She's NOT happy. She has much anxiety, some traits of obsessions and compulsions, control issues, and needs help.

I'm glad it's our OP rather than the court system, and I wish her luck. If this fails, there will only be further hurt for this lady down the line.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Thank you Lady, For caring , and for the kind words and good advice. I will try to update everyone as we go. Femmefreud

reply to post by ladyinwaiting

...if what has been described to us is the case...

I think you're overlooking some things

things that are fairly obvious





[edit on 11/18/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by femmefreud


I wonder what the result would be if you went to your friend and asked her what her reaction would be if you had had an intervention?

you might get her full attention without having to descend on her like the wrath of god with her own family in tow as witnesses, judge and jury

but good for you for having her best interests in mind - you do love her after all

can't help but wonder - how much influence have you had over her children - convincing them how seriously messed up their mother really is?

young children are really quite impressionable you know

it's good that you were there

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I will venture to say that if the adult children arrive, have a look around, and say "she's okay. Let's leave her alone" ---

Then the OP should immediately back off. You really can't impose your values on others, and I (think) I know that is your point here. No, no. We can't do that. I think you and I have discussed before our feelings about someone trying to control us. I value my own self-determination so highly that I project my respect for self-determination onto the people I work with. As in, their rights and values become valuable to me. (I see you are the same way, I think I know that about you.)

But if someone is in the process of really making a mess out of their lives (pun coincidental), then yeah, try to help them if you can. All she can do is try. If she fails, then she'll likely be there to help cheer her up when things become ugly. Which they can do. Seen it. Not pretty. And wait until the new Power of Attorney/Guardian/Conservator opens her mail to find she's $50,000 in debt. Sigh. Not pretty. I've seen $25,000 worth of junk piled to the ceiling. Wooden tulips and bric a brac. Dog pins encrusted with rhine stones.

I have been there for the aftermath, after the intervention, including a clean house, and counseling. (via court order). And the person will tell you they feel better.
Seriously. They will say "I don't want to go back to living like that".

OT and Aside to Spiral: I wish I had your computer skills. I'm just glad to see you here. So many people have bailed. Baled? Bailed. From ATS I mean. I'm glad to see the funny monkey today.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting

I have been there for the aftermath, after the intervention, including a clean house, and counseling. (via court order). And the person will tell you they feel better. Seriously. They will say "I don't want to go back to living like that".

I understand

I'm sure she will be fine - this will be the best solution for everyone. It usually is.

and no doubt - the court order will make it all extra special

We live in a Stepford Wife and Pottery Barn world - no going back now

OT and Aside to Spiral: I wish I had your computer skills. I'm just glad to see you here. So many people have bailed. Baled? Bailed. From ATS I mean. I'm glad to see the funny monkey today.

this funny monkey is not digging the monkeys as much as usual today

but - she is here

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


As far as her children go I if nothing else ,I also made excuses for her, As i said in a earlier post, I see the animosity in her kid when she talks to her mother, and i tell her dont speak to her that way she still your mom, So i have no influence on them. im just there for them the best i can be. I would never call authorities in of any kind on this.

And as far as who will be there for this meeting , are only the few that she would be ok with and not resent them for it, She just today said she needed to do something before her son comes home for leave and xmas too NOWHERE to put up a tree. So im hoping maybe we can get somthing acomplished with that motivation in mind and the intervention wont be needed, so i am on my way over there now. wish me luck OH and thanks for the kind words.... You funny monkey

reply to post by femmefreud


SOUNDS EXCELLENT.

MORE POWER TO YOU.

GLAD YOU FOUND THE WEBSITE. I obviously haven't gotten to it for you yet! Sorry.

It might be possible to have son on the phone during that time. Or, short of that, maybe he could send an EMAIL that could be read during that session.

I think he needs to see the website material beforehand, as well.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I think we still have enough freedoms and liberties to pursue happiness.


I actually composed a real post but I don't know where it is. It's not here. I've heard others complaining, but this is the first time it's happened to me. I don't care for it.

So instead, the monkeys are for you.

Peace out.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


1. These are NOT young children. The youngest is 14. The son is in the Navy. The other daughter IIRC is 19.

2. The description of the home more than fits the criteria for a very serious clinical problem.

3. IIRC, taking your suggested stance would be

--IRRESPONSIBLE
--UNLOVING
--HORRIFIC NEGLECT
--DANGEROUS

. . .

. . .

Such a person is typically in as much denial as an alcoholic. There has been plenty of evidence cited to affirm that's highly likely in this specific case.

Trying to deal with that level of denial in a rational way is futile to worse--very counter productive.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


HELLO???? ONE ADULT CHILD lives there . . . using "lives" loosely.

The other is in the Navy and HAS seen the horrible state and was incredulous.

The evidence is more than exceedingly abundant about the serious level of a clinical problem in this case.

Sheesh.

reply to post by femmefreud

So im hoping maybe we can get somthing acomplished with that motivation in mind and the intervention wont be needed, so i am on my way over there now. wish me luck

:-)

you won't need luck - you'll do fine

good friends are hard to find - they're worth keeping

I think that would be the best outcome for both of you

reply to post by BO XIAN


oh - quit badgering

we see things differently you and I

and neither one of us is in this story, so...

let's just see what happens

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


LOL

I think we still have enough freedoms and liberties to pursue happiness...

don't get me started Lady :-)

we'll all be sorry

thank you for the monkeys - liking them better now

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Thanks Monkey, Coming from you i am touched , I dont mean that in a bad way, Really ......

[edit on 18-11-2009 by femmefreud]

reply to post by femmefreud


I know

:-)

reply to post by BO XIAN


My goodness. Chill. It's not a life threatening situation. It will work out one way or the other.

Sheesh yourself.

Sheeesh, I really didnt mean to cause a stink, Its the first time i have ever even belonged or posted to a open forum before and im certainly getting schooled on alot of aspects of it, its really amusing, if nothing else i have sure learned a few things about other people and myself thriough this thread,

A

A pat on the back is not why im doing this but i welcomed it, and i also welcomed Monkeys replies, It did make me stop and think, was i wrong ? was i being a busy body? Do i have the right ? What im trying to say i am amazed that complete strangers have cared enough to share their thoughts, It has restored some of my faith in humanity ...