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Psychological Question

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posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 





I consider my clutter to be an actual art form
AHA.. I was already thinking to myself before i got to this last line. This person is also a hoarder, Ive sort of been hoping to hear from someone from the other side. Obviously you did not read this thread from begining to end or you just chose to pick out certain points that were in defense of this issue. So point taken Thank you




posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 
Im wondering did you read that this person is near and dear to me , I would do nothing to hurt her, Nor can i let this PROBLEM get worse, Yes she keeps her bath and dishes sort of up, But she doesnt cook because there is really no counter space left her stove is piled with things ,no where to sit and eat . table piled high with you name it, Im sorry when she cannot lay down and rest her body in a bed oor even sit down at times during the day thats bad, her ankles are always swollen because she never stretchs her legs out, PROBLEM , When her beautiful daughter cannot bring a boyfriend home and not be embarresed when her home is not really a home in a sense, she stays in her room .problem when she is the last kid waiting to be picked up always. when she is late because shes waiting for her Mom, Amazingly enough the kid is a straight A student So i see you picked out that i said she was too slow well yes, say while doing laundry she can do her ocd thing, but at least if your going pretreat and inspect each garment well at least have the washer ready with water in it and have it going gat a load of towells going while yopur pre treating . Things like that. So it takes her soooo long to finish anything she will spend 20 min scrubbing 1 thing without having started the washer and the laundra mat would be closing in an hour see what im saying, I usually pick up her daughters things and wash them for her. So im sorry creativity has nothing to do with it



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by femmefreud
 





AHA.. I was already thinking to myself before i got to this last line. This person is also a hoarder, Ive sort of been hoping to hear from someone from the other side. Obviously you did not read this thread from begining to end or you just chose to pick out certain points that were in defense of this issue. So point taken Thank you


LOL!

oh - no, no, no...you don't get off that easy

you really do have a tendency to shove everything into a nice neat little box so it can be what you want it to be - do you not?

:-)

I am no hoarder - not even close

not even by your standards - and I'm not going to explain what I mean by that

I did read the entire thread - every last word

just because people agree with you doesn't mean you're right - because of course - you haven't demonstrated that you're right - have you?

all we have is your description, your perception - and your opinion - of your messy, dawdling, sub-performing friend

the reason I jumped into this thread was because of presumption

people are so quick to categorize and assess - decide that there's something wrong with other people - then try to change them

fix them

what always gets me is - who decides who needs fixing and why?

this isn't an attack - you love your friend - I know that

but tell me - if you surprise her with some sort of intervention - what do you think her reaction will be?

are you prepared to lose a friend?

lose her because she doesn't behave the way YOU want her to behave?



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by femmefreud
 





Amazingly enough the kid is a straight A student


:-)

so - the kid does live up to your expectations then? Nice.



...but at least if your going pretreat and inspect each garment well at least have the washer ready with water in it and have it going gat a load of towells going while yopur pre treating . Things like that...


I can see how this could really piss a person off :-)



...So it takes her soooo long to finish anything she will spend 20 min scrubbing 1 thing without having started the washer...


annoying



So im sorry creativity has nothing to do with it


she just doesn't do things right - or fast enough?

I'm pretty sure she might have complaints of her own

listen - you love your friend? let it go



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Luminaught
 


Thank you, That was a wonderful story, It made me cry, that a scary thought, one i never thought of , like any other addiction so to speak, stop one replace it with another, Wow that does make so much sense. You think she replaced hoarding with eating ?
See my friend is the most giving soul i know, Her heart goes out to anything or anybody in need. But she is far from rich ,That is suffering to with her obsessive spending on needless things, paying for storages wit nothing really of value . buying cat litter and cat food for all hers and the strays.food she over buys that expires. bills she owes because she cant say no. I guess that there are many people from all different lifestyles and backgroounds that can all have this problem. Its just goes in the direction that there lifestyle dictates. Packrats and hoarders are a whole different thing this much i know. Thanks again



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 




so - the kid does live up to your expectations then? Nice.
NO this isnt about me as you presume, Im relieved that this kid living in these conditions and constantly resenting her mother whom she loves at the same time has not rebeled as some do , When she cant feel secure that her mother will be on time to pick her up or get her to a life changing event or have clean clothes for school. Those are things a child should not have to worry about. I have no expectations here Once again you are wrong,

Somehow im thinking you have no children ??



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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...but at least if your going pretreat and inspect each garment well at least have the washer ready with water in it and have it going gat a load of towells going while yopur pre treating . Things like that...
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


Yes when you have a goal and time restraints, you need to work a little smarter not harder, She will get herself all frustrated having not accomplished much and having to load it back up not finished half finished whatever till lord knows when she will get back to it, You know you think sort of like my dear friend , you dont get it I care about all people in general , And Oh by far i am not perfect. But this isnt about me..



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by femmefreud
 


your friend loves her children? they love her?

do you consider this home to be a home of abuse and/or neglect?

did any of us grow up in a perfect home - where everything was done right?

I'm not going to argue with you - why would I argue?

you know her - I don't - I can only go by what you've told us

you did ask for advice with a psychological problem - didn't you?

I don't agree with your take on things

but of course - you have to do what you think is best



[edit on 11/16/2009 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 





Hope you got the link, so maybe you can understand the severity of this and the potential to get worse.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by femmefreud]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 





I don't agree with your take on things
As i said i was hoping on something from an opposing point of view, but , The problem is that you do not have the right perspective on my take of things, And your right no home is perfect. You know she says i do things to fast and she is right in alot of things haste makes waste so they say, she will tell me and i take heed , but if give her the same type advice its like she cant chsnge her thinking she will say i know , i know , and im sure she means it. BUT no change. no change , no results....



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by femmefreud
 




As i said i was hoping on something from an opposing point of view...


you were hoping to hear from the hoarders? :-)

we haven't organized yet


...but , The problem is that you do not have the right perspective on my take of things...


I have my perspective - you should think about what you just said


...but if give her the same type advice its like she cant chsnge her thinking she will say i know , i know , and im sure she means it. BUT no change. no change , no results....


:-)

as I said just somewhere above - you have to do what you think is right

you can always ask for advice - my advice (which is not what you want to hear) is to leave it alone

but ultimately you have to do what you think is right by your friend



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 





you can always ask for advice - my advice (which is not what you want to hear) is to leave it
That was pretty good ( havent organized yet ) too funny, I needed a laugh. You know what i meant when i said opposing, SO you admit your a hoearder ? Yea i guess i can live with myself when shes found emaciated and or dead under a pile of cat poop and newspapers, If the place dont burn down or they condemn it first.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by femmefreud
 


what is it with you and hoarders?

:-)

see - maybe a little problem of your own - just maybe?

no - as I mentioned - not a hoarder - not even close

(unless you count bookmarks and PDFs)

clutter - now, that's another story entirely... :-)

you do understand the difference - don't you?



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Iwant to thank you for your support on this, I am so .. I dont know .. i just dont know what step to take . so, thank you,

[edit on 16-11-2009 by femmefreud]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


you mean to tell me thats all you took from my last reply i sent ? No need to defend yourself to me , This is not about you or me . And im glad your hoarding is artistic and controlled. Hey i have a sticker that says a messy room is a sign of creativity. I get you, But this is not that .



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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you do understand the difference - don't you
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


I do , Do you ?



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by femmefreud
 


GRRR I hate posts getting zapped by my new mouse buttons.

Sorry I was not able to get back to you sooner. I'd hoped to have some articles looked up for you. Alas, a student needed me to do some research for their paper in another class.

1. AVOID BEING IN A HURRY. Your friend has likely been the way she is for a long time. She's not going to get DRAMATICALLY WORSE overnight. Getting her to change at all will be challenging. Folks are much more like immoveable lumps than eager to change. So no need to rush.

2. Great that you are looking up local counselors. Here's some questions you can ask them:

1. How many 'hoarder' cases have you treated in your career, approximately? What percent of those got better enough to be considered essentially or mostly cured?

2. What methods do you use to help such individuals?

3. Have you ever done an alcoholic's FAMILY INTERVENTION type thing with really intractible hoarding cases? If so, what was the outcome?

4. Have you ever had to help get someone into assisted living because of their hoarding? How did you do that? What was the result?

5. How much have you used FAMILY SYSTEMS THERAPY strategies with such individuals? What was the results? What leads you to use such or to avoid using such?

6. How much have you used Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with such individuals? Why/Why not? What have been the results. How do you enlist the client's earnest efforts in applying such a strategy?

7. IN what percentage of the cases do you refer out for medication as well as your therapy? What medications are usually prescribed in such cases? How have those meds worked out with your therapy?

8. What criteria do you use to indicate to you that serious action must be taken for the person's health and welfare's sake? If 10 on a 10 pt scale equals the individual being in danger of death to stay in their home another day or few days, what number on the 10 point scale would you consider it serious enough to begin to insist on change or call in the authorities? What would be the observable criteria in the home and in the individual's behaviors to equal that point on the 10 point scale?

#########

It might be that some therapists would balk at answering such questions candidly on the phone. They might insist that you meet them face to face and pay for their time. I assume your friend is worth that.

You could ask a few questions on the phone of all the better reputation therapists in the area and then meet with the top 2 or 3 with the longer list of questions.

It's pretty crucial to have an effective therapist as well as one who will match your friend best personality wise.

I'm glad you are seeing through the contentions that you are over-reacting to your friend's 'mere' 'idiosyncracies.' I wonder how such proponents of such views would feel to find their mother, grandmother or spouse at home dead under a pile of such junk.

BTW, I'm not convinced that the whole home is spotlessly clean? I understand that the bathroom and kitchen are rather clean most of the time. What about the rest of the house??? Rather hard to imagine with a hoard of cats and a hoard of junk.

Anyway--congrats on loving your friend so much. You are a rare treasure of a friend. Gods best to you and to your friend.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Thanks again for your kindness, I have printed this out for reference, And if its ok I would like to be able to u2u for a nuetral opinion on the path we choose to take for her If thats ok ? Im getting with her kids and some close friends this weekend see what we can come up with, maybe we will all at the same time go to her and say ok, your the boss, where do we start? and just maybe she will point us in the right direction, If not than plan B. whatever that is .



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by femmefreud
 


SOUNDS EXCELLENT.

I think I might emphasize that--have each person verbally and very firmly assert:

MOM, FRIEND, WE LOVE YOU FAR TOO MUCH TO IGNORE THE HAZARD THAT THIS HOARDING REPRESENTS TO YOU AND TO YOUR 14 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER'S MENTAL HEALTH AND WELL BEING. IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO US THAT THE STATUS QUO CONTINUES UNCHANGED. We are willing to some degree to help you within your preferences and parameters providing they are healthy, workable, realistic and not dysfunctionally hazardous to your health and welfare. We really prefer not to be heavy handed at all.

However, our Love for you compells us to act. We cannot ignore the severity of the problem any longer and still pretend that we Love you. We Love you and are thereby compelled to do everything we can to try and insure that you are healthy and safe and that your 14 year old daughter at a critical age is also safe and supported in functional ways for her emotional health, psychodynamic health and plain safety and health.

You seem to be oblivious that none of your daughters can bring friends over to enjoy time with them in their own home because of your hoard of stuff. You are an extremely kind and generous loving woman. However, at that level, your hoarding is cruelly selfish--and that to the hurt of your own children.

I'll U2U you with my email.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 





I'm glad you are seeing through the contentions that you are over-reacting to your friend's 'mere' 'idiosyncracies.' I wonder how such proponents of such views would feel to find their mother, grandmother or spouse at home dead under a pile of such junk.


I would feel really, really bad Dr. Bo

I promise




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