10 Ways Darwin got it wrong - The Conspiracy of Evolution

Sorry, haven't learned to quote other people's posts yet!

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood

I may be easy going but this posters statements are designed to
only inflame others.
Thanks for this reply and wise words!

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
Sorry, haven't learned to quote other people's posts yet!

No prob.
Just hit quote at top right of the post, next to reply.
Thanks for your participation!
Oh sorry, to quote what is said.
At the top of the post edit page, there are several buttons.
Find the one on the top right side, one space over from the
one that says google video.
That is used to quote certain sentences usng copy and paste.
Also ATS has a helpfull info page about all this stuff!
Forgive me I cannot find this help page right off...



[edit on 14-11-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by dodadoom


Ladies & Gentlemen,
I apologise for the 'cop out' but it's 0:45am here in Uk. I'm tired, \I want a cigarette, I'm gonna finish my glass of wine and then retire to bed. Have to go outside to smoke cos the missus hates it. Always found it a source of amusement that here in england we use the word 'fags' as a slang for cigarettes! Know how different the word is in US!

Anyway, just quickly...Genesis 1:1-? nWhere it says 'Now the earth was without form and void'. I encourage you to find a good concordance or some such thing (maybe blueletterbible.org) and loom up each particular word in that sentance in the original Hebrew. There is plenty of evidence in that sentance to suggest that something happened, and the earth 'BECAME' void and desolate. At some point later on in the proceedings, GOD said, 'GO', and all things came to be. We get so hung up on issues of time and chronology. What if eternity exists? How can we judge or discern it from a point or field of existence in which time is relative/fixed/localised/set?
The two don't equate. Wer'e' on the wrong end of the binoculars trying to zoom in at a distorted image that was meant to be perceived from the other side. If time is a constant, flowing and unfixed but discernable by an original source, it calls to light a question by a greek philosopher who once said
'Is it possible to step into the same river twice?'

Just asking, is all...

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood

Nice speculations and thanks for sharing!
Have a good night and sleep tight.
Or at least peacefull!
Know you made one friend in the good ol US of A- wholes!

Peace and may God bless you and everyone here as he has me!



[edit on 14-11-2009 by dodadoom]

there is something that really bothers me, and for long time:
how do we know that the hoy bible, the kabbale, the coran, wich are now in evry site if cult, any hotel etc...is the original text

we know that some part of them have been edited during history

so how can we speculate on something so very far away from it's origine ? the bias is just to important right now...

you now what, what if it was just a tale ?

sometimes i just think that in hundred of years, humanity (if it's still there) will have an ancient text leading to a religion about :
- a sacred ring to control them all
- a mythical magician named Harry who can speak to reptile
- a mysterious man who can go trough computer system and kown as "the one".

that's how science differs from religion, if you see my point here

reply to post by dodadoom


No evolutionary theory is not perfect and all the answers aren't there, but simply because something is unknown at the time does not validate or prove the existence of an invisible sky Father.

Number 10 was particularly laughable. In what way is it necessary for a Creator to exist let alone the angry vengeful self-contradictory (bi-polar) God of the Bible?

So yes Darwin did guess wrong on some things and current science doesn't have all the answers to the way evolution works but that does not mean that evolution isn't happening. It's fairly obvious to anyone who observes nature to see the similarities in all organisms, are we to assume God was lazy and threw together many creatures in haste rather than exercising full creativity? There has to be an explanation for why we look and behave like apes and logic leads me to believe that we must be related to them in someway and the fact that the current scientific theory agrees with my simple observation of nature leads me to agree with Evolution.

While I disagree with the need for a creator, I do not rule the idea of a Creator out entirely, but the deity in the Bible is either made up or misrepresented by those that wrote it.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by Titen-Sxull]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I would speculate that things such as guilt,regret, melancholy philisophical debateare specific to humans. Mind you, not being an ape or lemur, etc, I don't know if they look up into a clear sky at night, view the edge of our milky way and ponder 'I wonder if we're alone, if there's anyone else out there besides us?' Do apes ponder the question, 'It's not fair'? Does their lifestyle require it? What about the concept of grace or salvation? Is that something they ponder, or even need to ponder or discuss? If not, why not?

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood


We don't know. As far as we know we are the first beings developed full blown language to allow expression of abstract thought. Can those thoughts exist without language, can consciousness even exist without language? These are all big questions, but one thing is for sure we are like apes in many ways, perhaps they don't have language skills quite on par with ours but the similarities are still striking and definitely prove we are related.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I guess the difference is (as I perceive) that all the characteristics I mentioned (pretty much) are negative by nature. Guilt, shame, insecurity, embarrassment. I'm not convinced that the animal kingdom struggles with such heirs and graces as we do. I guess I am contesting that we are the only part of 'creation/evolution/the animal kingdom that is struggling to know our place and where we fit in in the scheme of things. As for language, I know people that can't speak but still know how to 'vote'. Give apes a ballot box and see what happens! Oh wait...survival of the fittest, macho posturing...biggest muscle wins. If you contend we are no different from that, who are we to argue about something as 'meaningless' as a war in Iraq or Afghanistan (all things considered)? Do apes contest the morality of taking over the jurisdiction/habitat of a rival clan? If not, and we are glorified ancestors, why should we care? What do they know that we don't?

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood

Sorry, quote:
Can conciousness exist without language?
Ask a recovered coma patient, or a stroke victim. Sod it, ask Steven Hawkins, but take his computer away first!

reply to post by Solenki

I do!
And thanks a bunch for that!
I have thought about this also.
I think:
It puts the pressure on the people themselves to study God's word
and know of him in the most personal and intimate way.
For what other way is ultimately right? Or would truly convince?

God is not in some book or room or what some dude says.
He is inside of us! For lack of a better way to describe it.
We already have the tools and knowledge we need!

The only thing we lack is trust!

The trouble is, we only use 5 senses instead of 12 or 13.
We limit ourselves in our beliefs by what we can see, feel, touch,
smell, etc.
We are all about limits.

Faith comes before belief, believe it or not!
I know thats a big one and I'm sure to get flamed for it.
But I know of not other way I can put it.
Basically once you prove your love for him, ONLY then,
will he reveal himself to you personally.
I know that sucks, I had a tough time with it myself, I can relate!
Only when we show we are truly sincere, will he show us his full
potential in our lives.
Does this make sense? I hope so.
Its just what I have found in my life.
And not in some book, movie, or church.
Strictly my own opinion.
Thank you again for your post!
Peace, love and all that jazz.

I guess I believe in creationism in a sense. I think we were genetically engineered by aliens. I really don't see a very strong argument for evolution. But I will admit there's a much stronger argument for evolution than for a singular, infallible "god" creating mankind.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

While I disagree with the need for a creator, I do not rule the idea of a Creator out entirely, but the deity in the Bible is either made up or misrepresented by those that wrote it.

Kewl!
I actually agree for the most part!(except about there being creator)

As far as the need for a creator, thats another thread I guess!

No evolutionary theory is not perfect and all the answers aren't there, but simply because something is unknown at the time does not validate or prove the existence of an invisible sky Father.

True, but it doesn't prove its a fallacy either.
Even if new results are in.
One cannot measure a hearts capacity to love nor
understand every beat it makes.
Yet it is just an organ, right?
What is love then and can we prove it exists?
Or doesn't?
I know that sounds weird, it is hard for me to explain, appologies.

Some of the creationists theories are every bit as kooky as the evolutionists. IMO I think the answer is somewhere in the middle!
Kind of like politics. Sorry for the bad reference...

Why can't we just all get along anyway?
Thanks for the post!


[edit on 14-11-2009 by dodadoom]

Even if Darwin's theory of Evolution was categorically wrong. That still doesn't make the theory that a big invisible man in the sky made everything right.

The thing about science is, it's constantly being updated as we find out more about our surroundings. And that's a good thing. It's called progression.

Abrahamic Religion is the complete opposite, it has systematically sought to destroy free thought, wither the channels of communication, withhold new knowledge and silence experimentation, discussion and opposing viewpoints - all by using the vilest imaginable methods. If it had it's way, it would have us all quivering in the dark, lavishing the priestly class with money and goods in order to appease the invisible sky man so our crops grow another year.

So whilst you're trying to poke holes in a 150 year old theory, remember that it's already been re-appraised and updated through scientific study and research and has evolved into something superior and stronger and really very robust. The same of course cannot be said for the invisible sky man and all the superstitious rituals and empty trinkets that are meant to sooth his bloated ego.

This is a tricky one lol.....
in one sense i do not believe at all that some being, 1 all masterful energy, created every living thing we know, i believe "god", science and nature are all 1, its just the way the universe works (which i also believe is and always has been infiniate)
Scientific processes created life at its most basic point, with the most basic elements... carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and the formatrion of RNA and DNA etc. Thats just my opinion on the religious side.

On the darwin point i do not believe that he got it right, i think he was well off to be honest, i think we are just discovering the basics of life, the human genome etc. this is where the answer lies... science.
i think i read somewhere that they had found parts of human DNA that wernt right somehow "alien". I cannot prove this as i dont remember the source.
To come from chimps i seriously doubt it, i believe that we were designd for a purpose, maybe with chimp DNA being used in the process, i mean we are splicing genes and using genetics to do alot of wonderful things now so if someone had the know how many many years ahead of us they would find experimenting with DNA and manupulating it... childs play.

And there is no point bashing this geeza just because he believes something..... how can you lot prove that he is 100% wrong without a shadow of a doubt?
i dont agree with him, but we are all entitled to our own opinion.

reply to post by deadvirgo

Who really knows huh?
What gets me is some who know exactly what happens when you die!
How could anyone possibly know that?
Without dying and coming back of course---

There are just so many strange things out there
that we just dont know about,
why say nothing is real and close the door to enlightenment?

Why not at least say what if?.....
Thanks!

reply to post by VelvetSplash

Thanks for the reply!

Even if Darwin's theory of Evolution was categorically wrong. That still doesn't make the theory that a big invisible man in the sky made everything right.

You or anyone here can't disprove of this theory either though....
or positively prove Darwin right.

Ya, how bout them cowboy's huh? Er, muslims. Kidding
Some are fantical about it, and take it a little too seriously,
like some do sports.

So whilst you're trying to poke holes in a 150 year old theory, remember that it's already been re-appraised and updated through scientific study and research and has evolved into something superior and stronger and really very robust.

I take it you must of missed the two posts earlier with all the scientists
listed who believe in a creator of some sorts....

LOOOOOOOL, that source is laughable. Just check out the other articles on their website. Bible study, how to convince your kids evolution's wrong. Surprises me that they're not talking about humans roaming the earth with dinosaurs only a few millenia ago

So humans never managed to recreate hair according to them. So how the hell do you explain that they clone sheep, and grow entire body parts from scratch (ears growing on mice for example)?

Thanks for the post. A S&F for you.

For what it's worth, I have a close relative who has a Masters degree in chemistry and a Masters degree in biology. This person was raised a Christian but turned into an atheist in his 20’s (he’s now in his 60’s). About a dozen or so years ago, as he/the world found out more and more detailed information concerning cells, he came to the realization that life just didn’t spontaneously come into being and that the complexity and functionality of a cell is such that it was more likely designed/created by something/someone. He has since rejoined he Church.