Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

I think it's important to remember that ANY child that is being vaccinated is technically a "forced vaccination".

LOL Do you think a child is going to peddle his big-wheel to a hospital and roll up his sleeves?

Parents make the choice for their children, any minor being vaccinated is forced to by their parents.

I'm not saying this is wrong, I believe parents should have the right to chose for their children, just pointing this out.

reply to post by Luppakorva


All posts in this forum are just "opinions", because no one in this forum is a source of official information as MSM understand this. However, you apply one standard to yourself and another standard to me. You yourself just expressed your opinion that I am being paid up. But your require, that information provided by me must be 100% correct, verified and free of personal opinion. So I can apply the same standard to you: go to your original post and modify it, remove your words that I am being paid up, or othewise I will consider you as a source of misinformation on this forum.

reply to post by ahemot


Ok, we end it right here right now. My last post about this, it's getting ridiculous.

I'm sure you do understand difference of posting "FORCED VACCINATION HAPPENING HERE" when you're not really sure is it forced vaccination, instead of posting "Is this forced vaccination taking place?"

There is a BIG difference between these two ways of how to put it down.

This is not the first post from you actually which was like that, I asked the very same question "why do you claim it to be something else than it is.." (now not with these exact words but anyways, I'm sure you get it) in this very same thread earlier, I have seen others doing the same as well, so I have not been the only one.

And by all means, from now on you have to consider me as a source of misinformation if that is what you decide to do, you have every right to do so and I respect your decision. But please, keep your future posts in line.

Thank you.

reply to post by Luppakorva


Now you sound much more reasonable. I went to my original post and modified it accordingly. I do not like wild allegations to be thrown at me just because a question mark etc. was missing.

reply to post by ahemot


Been reading ATS for years, just signed up to post.

Appreciate the updates from alternative sources, please don't stop!

Everyone seems to agree that the AP, WHO and Ukraine Gov't aren't accurate, so the more the better.

BUT, please review your 2006/11/22 "forced vaccination" pic, its obviously quite old and probably not forced

original link: www.gazeta.lviv.ua/gfx/i/2006/11/22/22.jpg

I haven't read everything that has gone on before, so am not taking sides but I do think we need to clean up our act.
I am on a number of forums and time and time again I see scary headings and when you read the link, it is clear this is just the posters own interpretation. Sometimes a pretty wild one too. Then it goes viral and pretty soon the whole thing is being spread round the net as fact.
I think it needs to be made clear in the subject line. For example there is a world of difference between 'Is this the beginning of forced vaccinations'? to 'Forced vaccinations coming to...'. And because sources need to be checked and counter checked then 'Reports of ..' is a fairly safe preface.
People can go on to speculate all they want in their posts but need to keep the subject line as fact. Unfortunately not everyone seems able to do this.

I've been following this closely...first time to chime in.

I am still undecided as to what might be going on (as is everyone since there is no strong evidence one way or another). All that is clear is that the government is reacting VERY strongly, the biggest reaction yet in the world, to whatever it is. Whether this be due to only the H1N1, political ploys or some new deadly strain of SOMETHING...the ONE thing that makes the most suspicous is this:

Why is it not front page news???? Regardless of WHAT the reasons are, it is newsworthy! This nearly complete blackout in the US is VERY unsettleing. There have only been a few articles written, basically re-capping what the WHO has said....I think most likely because the WHO sent a team and so they had info on their website, so the AP had to say something. The fact that there isn't an in-depth investigation going on, especially considering how concerned our own government is supposed to be, is just crazy.

For this reason alone, I am extremely suspicous that whatever it is, our governmet does NOT want us to know about it. WHY???? I can only think of a few things....avoid panic, avoid knowledge, keep us under control.

I hope that this will all pan out to be a political game going on...I hope.

reply to post by asen_y2k


and...

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by maloy

 

They are MBC, in English MVS. I am in Lviv...
I don't know about total quarantine. They kept telling us, what are you doing outside? Its karantine(quarantine). It was about 1.45 in the night.They were shouting and throwing their hand around...
[edit on 2/11/09 by asen_y2k]

Asen, after I posted details of your first text messages last night, namely that you were okay and were going out to get meds, I logged off and had dinner and soon after I went to bed.. It was a shock when I got up at 7 this morning and saw your messages about the trouble with the Police. Thank you for that last short message that you were okay and only one guy got arrested.

First thing I did was log on and see if you had posted here! Big relief that you did and so I knew all was ok...

That guy who got arrested for no ID... This was very unwise of him. In this part of the world (Central and Eastern Europe) everyone must carry their ID all the time. It's the law. It is normal here that if police stop you, even for just a routine check when they are looking for some people, they first say "Doklady prosim." (Papers, please.) If they are young guys who want to look tough they don't say "please".

If they have AK47s you don't expect them to be polite...

I have been stopped a few times, maybe once every two years or so. I show my papers, we chat about the rotten weather or whatever, and they wish me good day and let me go. It's no problem, no drama. Honest people have nothing to worry about. But if you have no papers or they are "not in order" then it's trouble. This happened to a friend of mine here. He was an Australian, who was here on a visa and working "black". (No work documents, no permission to work, no taxes, etc.) Well he had overstayed his visa.

So when he gave the police his passport, (just city police, not even state police), they saw at once that his visa had expired. So he was arrested and taken to the station and they put him in a cell. Then he had to sign a document that said he was being deported because he'd overstayed his visa and he could not return for three years. And that was it. He had to leave within three weeks.

Having ID has a plus side. For example, a few months back (in Summer), an old lady collapsed on the footpath just across the road from us. Help was called. The police arrived before the ambulance, and they checked her ID and were able to contact her family to let them know which hospital she was going to. This sort of thing happens quite often so it's an advantage, especially in a country where a fair number of people (especially older) never got a driving license because they use public transport all the time anyway. It also helps to prevent getting arrested if we just happen to look like someone they are after.

I am giving all these details on the thread here so that members know, that all through this part of the world, this is what happens when things are "normal". Right now in Ukraine, it is not "normal". An emergency has been declared and this gives police -- especially the special units of the State police -- "extraordinary powers".

Under such conditions, the police can be very tough. Those guys with the Kalashnikovs are "special" and they are always tough anyway. Your "local" police will usually have side arms, not AK47s. These special police live in their own world and yes -- just like here -- they get their orders through the Ministry of the Interior.

I can bet that they are not happy to be there in your city when there is this problem with infection.

I say that because special police with AK47s don't really need to shout much or wave their arms. They normally just tell you to stop. So they were perhaps rather "green" or simply nervous or even a bit scared. As you know, fear and anger are very similar emotions. So the anger comes out. That's my reading of their behaviour.

They can use those guns if they wish and there is no recourse under the law if they do. They have authority to stop people by any means.

The "quarantine": by law, any quarantine has to be "publicly declared". So does any curfew. They only have to print the announcement in the local press. But that doesn't mean everyone will know about it right away. This sounds like it was a curfew situation as part of the quarantine measures.

When people cannot travel at night, this is when thieves come out to rob (burgle) offices and shops. So the police are there to do two things: to stop people moving around and perhaps spreading infection (by visiting friends, leaving the region and so on), and to catch the scumbags who can be having a great time robbing places when there are no witnesses on the streets.

We had this in Prague during the huge floods in 2002, when half of the city center was literally awash and emergency workers and police were using boats to get around. The police caught several looters and I heard rumors that they shot a few as well, but I don't know if that's true. But it wouldn't surprise me, especially if the looters were stupid enough to carry any weapons.

By the way, if you go shopping during the day, keep the receipts for everything you buy. That way if the police stop you, then you can prove the goods are not stolen. I only advise this because the situation is not normal.

I will say this: bringing in special police with their AK47s to do "patrol duty" in a town is an unusual move. They normally reserve them for major disturbances, riots, natural disasters etc. The last time I saw them here in Prague was a few months back when we had a big football match ("international" level) and the opposing team's fans were known to cause "trouble". So after the match they were "escorted" to the railway stations by hundreds of armed police, including our "special" guys (and women). There was no "trouble" from them this time!

The special police are also great people to have around in any disaster. They have some excellent resources and highly-trained people for rescues and they did some incredible things here to save people in the floods. So, it's not all bad.

The fact that they are using special police for patrol work means that either the authorities are very concerned about people moving around at night, or the local "city" police are not able to cope. This will not go un-noticed by the local inhabitants, believe me.

If you can "obtain" any pictures of them, or if any of your contacts can, then please post them if it's safe for you to do so. If not, then we can find a way to get them released by "someone" outside of Ukraine.

Best regards and stay safe,

Mike

[edit on 3/11/09 by JustMike]

reply to post by westcoast

Hi and thanks for commenting. Several others have voiced the same concerns about the lack of reporting in the western msm; in fact, during the first day or so of this thread I requested members from various countries to check their own msm (print and "to air") and let us know what was being said. We got responses from the Netherlands, Belgiun, Sweden, the UK, the USA, and perhaps a couple of others I can't recall and at that time, all were negative.

There was not a word in those countries' msm -- and this at the time when in my country, it had already been reported in the press, online and on TV that there was a "mystery" outbreak of a serious infectious illness in Ukraine and that their govt were taking steps to control it, and also seeking aid from nearby nations.

We all wondered why it wasn't being reported. I think I said that those msm were perhaps consulting with each other and also their govts before going public but I'd have to check if that's what I actually posted.

But the situation as I see it is that the western govts know about Ukraine's political situation. They are also wary of doing anything to upset Russia too much. Right now, I would speculate that until the western powers have had a chance to get very specific details from their own sources about exactly what is really going on in Ukraine, they would rather their mouthpieces mainstream media played it down or said nothing at all.

Once they do know what is going on, which means after they get the reports from the London lab that is doing test, and their own spies informal delegations on the ground in Ukraine have been able to send in detailed regional assessments, then they can decide how to keep their public "honestly" informed.

Mike

[edit on 3/11/09 by JustMike]

reply to post by JustMike


I have been monitoring the MSM in Canada here Mike..nothing, not a hint.
Only topic of the day is Swine flu.

"The sudden cold snap has made the situation worse. "At the moment there are two waves of flu that are coming together: The normal seasonal flu and the swine flu," Tatiana Bakhteyeva, the chair of the Ukrainian parliamentary health committee, told SPIEGEL ONLINE."

source

I don't know how reliable this news source is, so don't shoot the messenger. I just find it pretty hard to understand why some people are saying there is no normal, seasonal flu in the Ukraine right now - I thought nearly everywhere got a flu virus, every year ? Can someone explain to me why there is "no seasonal flu" over there ?

Official number of deaths in Ukraine reaches 71:
censor.net.ua...

RIA DNIESTER:
Epidemic in Ukraine: a pneumonic form of plague?
"Эпидемия в Украине - легочная форма чумы?"
dniester.ru...
Also see a suggestion of antrax as a cause in one of the comments below.


[edit on 3-11-2009 by ahemot]

"Легочная чума: в Киеве первая смерть"
"Pneumonic plague: the first death in Kyiv"
About half an hour ago our source in one of the Kyiv hospitals has informed that this night in the capital of Ukraine, in the infectious hospital the inhabitant of the Western Ukraine has died, - Marina Andreevna Bojko - cause of death pulmonary plague. So far we were unable to confirm it officially.

globalist.org.ua...

Note: I am also giving the titles of articles in Russian to dismiss critics on this forum who claim that it was I who invented the term "pneumonic plague".

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Asherah]

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Asherah]

reply to post by AccessDenied


You haven't been monitoring very good then. CBC Canada's #1 news station had news about this situation with Ukraine on TV this afternoon and tonight in the hourly rotation. Not much on the CBC website though.

A look at the latest H1N1 developments in Canada and around the world

Officials in the Ukraine closed schools across the country to prevent the spread of swine flu and urged night clubs, cinemas and food markets in parts of the country to follow suit.

The WHO sent a team to the country to help cope with the situation, but added there was no evidence that the Ukraine was experiencing a severe outbreak. Ukraine's Health Ministry said Monday that 70 people in the nation of 40 million have died of flu, but did not say how many of those deaths were related to swine flu.

www.cbc.ca...

Slovakia closed two pedestrian border crossings with Ukraine and ordered spot medical checks at others,...

CIDRAP >> WHO

"Большинство специалистов и наблюдателей сходятся во мнении, что на Украине вспышка эпидемии лёгочной чумы."
"Most experts and observers agree that Ukraine [has] outbreak of pneumonic plague."

ichkeria.info...

The link also contains a translation of the article into English.

Note: The article also mentions an outbreak of pneumonic plague in Chechnya in 2005, which was also ignored by MSM.

RADIO LIBERTY (in Belorussian language) reports:
9 dead, 150 hospitalized with pneumonia in Minsk, the capital of Belarus, to the north of Ukraine.
charter97.org...

See also the original article in Belorussian:
www.svaboda.org...

Our MSM here in Scandinavia is writing that what happens in Ukraine is an outbreak of A-H1N1, so in the articles they say we better get our vaccine soon!

But the funny thing was that the same paper at the same time on the same page - has articles reporting from Germany with some Warnings about the vaccines for very young children and pregnant women!

Man! they are doing their best to confuse the crap of the citizens/people! the MSM is more crazy than any of us here!