Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

reply to post by bastion

I'm going to have to disagree too. Before the industrial revolution and even the agricultural era we used homeopathic treatment. Seems to me that doctors aren't gods and they make lots of mistakes, a PhD is not a guarantee of anything. Again, it's about the choices before us in a crisis.

reply to post by JJay55


JJay, You have been a major contributor to this thread..............but to see your latest post has me puzzled

So not too wreck this thread on an off topic.......Please start a thread on your personal opinion and theory concerning this comment...

"Personally, I'm all for it because I believe in de-population too. "

SITUATION UPDATE : 2009-11-08 13:33:53 - Ukraine

Event ID: UKR-20090602-209
Date & Time: 2009.11.08 14:33:37 [UTC]
Area: Ukraine, Statewide
Description:

The death toll from the flu outbreak in Ukraine has risen to 144 cases, the country\'s Health Ministry reported on Sunday. According to the ministry, 15 regions in the ex-Soviet republic had already crossed the flu epidemic threshold while 11 provinces were close to it. The Ukrainian government imposed quarantine in nine western provinces in late October in an attempt to curb the spread of flu. All education establishments in Kiev were closed, and people were obliged to wear medical masks in all catering establishments, shops and social services facilities across the former Soviet republic. Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko earlier requested help from other countries over the outbreak of flu. The Ukrainian Health Ministry said on Monday 255,000 flu cases had been registered in the country, with some 15,000 people receiving treatment in hospital. The Health Ministry has confirmed the dea! th of 14 people from swine flu and 32 swine flu cases in the country. The Ukrainian parliament has approved the allocation of 1 billion hryvnias ($125 million) on measures to fight swine and seasonal flu.

Dead(s): 144
Infected (Susp.): 0
Infected (Conf.): 8710357
Quaranten: 0

Posted:2009-11-08 13:33:53 [UTC]

reply to post by Cloudsinthesky

It's natures way, clouds. It's natures way.
We all can't live forever and we are overpopulated. China has legal population control. So should countries in Africa and others in Asia.

I'm not for extermination. But see the implications that come out when the subject comes up? All of the sudden people get touchy. If we could put this issue on the table then it wouldn't have to be done haphazard with designer biologicals when we least expect it.



[edit on 8-11-2009 by JJay55]

Originally posted by ecoparity

Disaster drills are always scripted to fit likely scenarios or repeats of recent ones. Terror drills are scripted to fit scenarios based on intelligence reports of expected incidents or suspicions. I know people are having a hard time letting go of the plague rumors in Ukraine but its just not valid. Its become one of those self sustaining fictions now in the conspiracy community, unfortunately.

I prefer to concentrate my energy on realistic theories, this entire thing is complex enough without adding on to it.

How do you explain the disaster drills that happened on the same day as 9/11 and 7/7 in that were about exactly what happened in the terrorist attacks?

Plus, when you consider that there was a "warning" from a Bin Laden tape last month to Europe....God, I wish I had a transcript of that tape, but I remember he was threatening Europe...and there is supposedly a Bin Laden tape before every major terrorist attack.

I think, given the history of terrorist attacks on emergencydrill days, and given the history of attacks after Bin Laden warnings....it is a "realistic" scenario.

**I know, Bin Laden may be CIA, he may be fictitious, there probably isn't an Al Quaeda. But even if Bin Laden is not real, whoever is responsible for these attacks could be using them to warn the "insiders" about the next attacks. It could be a "code."

I went to find articles about "Bin Laden's" warning to Europe, and this is what I found:

kdka.com...

I think it was dated September 14, 2009

Osama bin Laden is warning that al Qaeda could retaliate against Europe for its alliance with the United States in the war in Afghanistan.

Bin laden says in a new audiotape posted on Islamic Web sites Friday that Europe should pull out of the coalition with the United States, warning that it shares blame for NATO airstrikes in Afghanistan that have killed civilians.

FBI Most Wanted: Osama Bin Laden
Anti-Defamation League Page On Osama Bin Laden

Addressing Europeans, he asks, "how do think you will fare after America pulls out - Allah permitting - for us to retaliate from the oppressor on behalf of the oppressed?"

So, this was released about a month before the "mystery bug" appeared and a the flu epidemic began in Ukraine. Doesn't a tape get released about a month before every big event, lately?

Just a possibility....just a theory..., but what if releasing the Bin Laden warning tapes are a "code" for whoever is behind these things to start preparing for the next one?


[edit on 8-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by Angiras

 

Personally, I'm all for it because I believe in de-population too.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Over-population can be considered a problem, depending upon your point of view. However, there are two ways to deal with the problem.

1. Increase the means of food production, etc. to support larger populations, and allow nature to take its course, while advocating benign and voluntary methods of birth control, education, etc.

2. Or pro-actively attempt to reduce the population through forced sterilizations and "culling" the herd, by killing off billions.

I would be in favor of option 1, but I am adamantly opposed to option 2. I hope you share the same sentiments.

reply to post by JJay55


Natures way I totally agree......but bio-weapons, government healthcare control, population mandates like China I don't consider the "natural way"

reply to post by nikiano


If I were a "betting" man, I would give good odds to the notion that before long there will be a new "false flag" attack, probably in the US, involving a biological attack, which will be blamed on Iran, or Al-Qaida. Dick Cheney has been warning of this for some time, and he and his buddy Don Rumsfeld are probably in a good position to know.

Originally posted by saralee
India 35 deaths not swine flu
www.mid-day.com...

Hmmmmm..... So it looks like maybe it was Asen, our OP, who may have brought the disease to Ukraine from India in the first place.

Just kidding! Me bad.

Originally posted by bastion
I'm disturbed by how many people are advocating Homeopathy on this site.

The priciple of homeopathy is that viruses don't exist, so using it against a virus is putting your life at risk.

Homeopathy has never been shown to work in any trials and hundreds have been conducted by independent bodies so it's got nothing to do with a 'Big Pharma cover up'.

I'm doctor of pharmacy (PharmD)l. I got my BS in Pharmacy in 1993, and my PharmD in 1994. I then went to homeopathy school in 2007 to learn more about it. And I can tell you that the above statement is a completely false statement.

Homeopathy DOES work. The AMA would like you to think it doesn't....but it does. I can show you TONS of research done on homeopathy. I have $3000 worth of homepoathic software that has research out the kazoo of homeoapthic clinical studies.

These studies, are called "provings" in homeopathy. They have been called "provings" for over 200 years. They were called "provings" before the term "clinical study" was ever invented....so, to this day, they still call them provings. The "provings" of remedies are alwyas done on humans, not animals, and they are always done in a very, very rigid and controlled manner.

I have helped out in a homoepathic proving (so I could understand how it works) and worked a pharmacuetical drug study, and quite honestly, they both have their advantages. They do things differently of course, but that is because they work differently. You cannot design a clinical study for a homeoapthic remedy the same way as a pharmacuetical study, because they work differently!

Here is a database of Provings on the internet, too.

www.dynamis.edu...

Not to mention, we have over 200 years of clinical evidence that it works, contained in many homeoapthic journals. Plus, we have OFFICIAL statistics from 1918 showing that homopeathic physicians were much more successful at saving their patients than conventional doctors were. The AMA has just suppressed that information.

These days, they are also now TEACHING homeopathy at a major PHARMACY school in the city where I live (Midwestern University Pharmacy School).

Homeopathic remedies have been FDA approved for decades....most people don't realize that. Just look on the side of the bottles. Also, they sell homeopathic products in many, many drug stores these days, too. In fact, most people don't realize this, but a lot of the top selling cold and flu products these days are indeed, combination homeopathic products. Zicam is homeopathic zinc. Cold MD and Flu MD are homeopathic. They just don't say that on the front of the box, but if you look at the ingredients, you'll see that it has a lot of strange looking ingredients on the back, and those are homeopathic remedies.

Homeopathy works great in epidemics. Go to the National Center for Homoepathy website to see the statistics yourself.

homeopathic.org...

The death rate for patients treated by homeopathic physicians in the 1918 epidemic was around 1.5 - 7% depending on which source you read, whereas the death rate for conventional medicine was 30-70%, depending on which source you read. Either way, it is still a huge difference!

You can also go here, to another article that also has statistics. Here is an exerpt:

While the mortality rate of people treated with traditional medicine and drugs was 30 percent, those treated by homeopathic physicians had mortality rate of 1.05 percent.
Of the fifteen hundred cases reported at the Homeopathic Medical Society of the District of Columbia there were only fifteen deaths. Recoveries in the National Homeopathic Hospital were 100%. In Ohio, of 1,000 cases of influenza, Dr. T. A. McCann, MD, Dayton, Ohio reported NO DEATHS.

What homeopathic remedies were used to successfully treat the Spanish flu in 1918?
Gelsemium and Bryonia
According the Dr. Frank Wieland, MD, in Chicago, "(With) 8,000 workers we had only one death. Gelsemium was practically the only remedy used. We used no aspirin and no vaccines."

Homeopathy was 98% successful in treating the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918?
Yes.
Ohio reported that 24,000 cases of flu treated allopathically had a mortality rate of 28.2% while 26,000 cases of flu treated homeopathically had a mortality rate of 1.05% . In Connecticut, 6,602 cases were reported, with 55 deaths, less than 1%. Dr. Roberts, a physician on a troop ship during WWI, had 81 cases of flu on the way over to Europe. He reported, "All recovered and were landed. Every man received homeopathic treatment.

The AMA itself was formed AFTER the 1918 epidemic, because the homeopaths had such a good success in the epidemic. The conventional doctors joined together to run the homeopaths out of business....(drive out their competition), so they started spreading lies and myths about homeopathy (that still exist today)....and thus, the AMA was formed.

EDIT TO ADD:

I am not saying that you shouldn't seek conventional medical care if you get sick. After all, I work in a hospitial myself!!

BUT....a hospital is not a good place to be if you're sick (I know!) and if you can help yourself first, or if the hospitals get swamped....homeopathy might do well in an emergency situation.

Plus, many, many people have told me these last few months, that when they try to get into their doctor's office, the doctors won't let them come if they have flu symptoms. So, then, you are left to either take care of yourself or go to a hospital....take your pick.

I personally woudln't go to the hospital first, I'd take a remedy. I don't want to be with all the sick people in the hospital, and then get even sicker. Hospitals are terribly understaffed these days, too. Our hospital uses a lot of registry nurses, because we're so understaffed.

EDIT to ADD again:

If you would like to learn the other side, and learn all about how homeopathic studies are organized and carried out, hpathy.com offers a FREE foundations of homeopathy course on their website. You'll learn how homeoapthic provings are set up, and why they are set up that way. You'll learn about the history of homeoapthy. All I ask is that you read both sides of the story before you jump to your own conclusions.

(Remember, homeopathy was a system of medicine that was started by a German physician, not just some quack.)

Here is their address:

www.hpathy.org...

EDIT to ADD:

P.S. Most people don't realize this but you know nitroglycerin tablets? Those are one of the few homeopathic medicines that conventional doctors still use today. Sublingual nitroglycerin tablets are homeoapthic. They treat chest pain with the principle of "like cures like." If you don't think nitroglycerin tablets work, ask anyone with chronic angina if their nitro tablets work for them, then tell me that homeopathy doesn't work.

Or, ask anyone who uses sublingual Levsin tablets for their stomach cramps. Levsin is hyoscyamine...the homeopathic remedy hyoscyamus. It is also still in use today.

And then of course, we have the pharmaceutical companies using some drugs homeopathically, but they don't tell you. For example, kids with hyperactivity and ADD take amphetamines to calm them down. Does that make sense? Not really. Why would taking an amphetamine calm someone down? Well, if you understood homeopathy, you would understand that they are using the pharmacuetical medicines (amphetamines and derivatives) in a homeopathic way. That's why amphetamines calm hyperactive kids down....it works homeopathically.

Nitroglycerin...hyoscyamine....amphetamines and derivatives.....are all used in a homeopathic manner by today's doctors. Homeopathic cold remedies are sold in drug stores. And in my homeopathy class, I sat next to a cardiologist, and I also know another urgent care physician who uses homeopathy in his practice.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by Angiras


As long as the people go with the UN/Administration policies that are attempting to be passed (cap & trade, healthcare...copenhagan treaty...ect) I don't see a "major" false flag.....if all of these polices become law.....

I do see more little distractions like Ft Hood and Orlando..........

That discussion is already on other treads........but did you hear what the Orlando shooter said right when he was being sholved into the police car surrounded by reporters......"there is some sick technology out there".... Not sure if that has been posted anywhere yet.....??....but it does raise some questions of what he means..........

But when people do stand up here in the US against these polices being inforced by the UN and the administration is when in my opinion we will see the "big" false flag event to get people in-line.....

reply to post by bastion


I agree Bastion
I thought homeopathy had long been discredited? But what works for you, works for you I guess. Just let's not lull ourselves into a false sense of security in the face of a potentially lethal virus.
Same with vitamins. Hey I buy into the vitamin hype too! Been dosing myself with vit D3 supplements. But not since I found out about the effect of high D3 levels should you be short of calcium... Fact is we go into a so called health shop bristling with lotions and potions promising the earth and we end up making our body balance worse, not better. We can do ourselves serious damage shoving all these pills down our throats.
People just don't get it. Vitamin manufacturers are BIG PHARMA too.

Originally posted by Angiras

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by Angiras

 

Personally, I'm all for it because I believe in de-population too.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Over-population can be considered a problem, depending upon your point of view. However, there are two ways to deal with the problem.

1. Increase the means of food production, etc. to support larger populations, and allow nature to take its course, while advocating benign and voluntary methods of birth control, education, etc.

2. Or pro-actively attempt to reduce the population through forced sterilizations and "culling" the herd, by killing off billions.

I would be in favor of option 1, but I am adamantly opposed to option 2. I hope you share the same sentiments.

There are more options and certainly we could use some creativity.
Problem with 1 is that we can't afford it anymore. Our welfare systems are overloaded with irresponsible humans.
Problem with 2 is that someone has to play God.

The ideas on the table now of war by providing unlimited weaponry, and biologicals aren't favorable either.
A possible solution is one world government... maybe that will happen after the apocalypse and will be 1000 years of peace. I can see how that concept developed.
Meanwhile to preserve my heritage I am going to prepare for the apocalypse part just in case.

The World Health Organization's flu chief said the swine flu virus has now become the predominant flu strain worldwide.

In some countries, swine flu accounts for up to 70 percent of the flu viruses being sampled, said Dr. Keiji Fukuda, WHO's top flu official.

While most people recover from the illness without needing medical treatment, officials are also continuing to see severe cases in people under 65 — people who are not usually at risk during regular flu seasons.

"We remain quite concerned about the patterns that we're seeing," Fukuda said during a press briefing Thursday.

He said the swine flu virus appeared to be fairly stable, and that samples from around the world remained very similar to when the virus was first identified in April.

Regarding the recent surge of cases in the Ukraine — which has reported more than 250,000 cases and 70 deaths of people with flu-like illness in recent weeks — Fukuda said the virus appeared no different there than anywhere else.

"We just simply have to understand that influenza can cause outbreaks in very large numbers of people," he said. "Patterns can be quite different from country to country."

Fukuda said the agency was also monitoring the impact of the virus on particularly susceptible populations.

On Wednesday, Venezuelan officials reported that swine flu had hit the Yanomami Indians, killing seven people in a population of 28,000.

Fukuda said WHO had observed that aboriginals in Australia were disproportionately hit by swine flu, but could not say whether they were more genetically vulnerable to the virus or if that was due to underlying health problems.

With swine flu vaccination programs now under way in more than 20 countries, Fukuda said no rare or dangerous side effects had been reported, and the agency was convinced the vaccine was "highly safe."

Fukuda said WHO had been surprised that the vaccine appeared to work after just one dose, but was happy about it because that mean the world's vaccine supplies could be stretched.

Even in children under 10, Fukuda said WHO recommended that one dose could be effective. Some countries, including the U.S., are recommending that children get two doses of the swine flu shot.

"It is better to provide one dose to as many children as possible rather than two doses to fewer children," Fukuda said.

Originally posted by JJay55

Meanwhile to preserve my heritage I am going to prepare for the apocalypse part just in case.

In that case check out:

The Final Event

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257691331&sr=1-1

Originally posted by unicorn1
reply to post by bastion

 

I agree Bastion
I thought homeopathy had long been discredited? But what works for you, works for you I guess. Just let's not lull ourselves into a false sense of security in the face of a potentially lethal virus.
Same with vitamins. Hey I buy into the vitamin hype too! Been dosing myself with vit D3 supplements. But not since I found out about the effect of high D3 levels should you be short of calcium... Fact is we go into a so called health shop bristling with lotions and potions promising the earth and we end up making our body balance worse, not better. We can do ourselves serious damage shoving all these pills down our throats.
People just don't get it. Vitamin manufacturers are BIG PHARMA too.

But there's more to it than just the physical. Take into consideration the emotional, intellectual and most importantly the spiritual side of it. Many people feel a certain sense of self reliance if they can cook up their own remedies, some are really good. Also doctors aren't the most intelligent on the planet so why listen to their Big Pharma advise. Far more satisfying to know more than a doctor. And the spiritual belief that there is a bigger plan for individuals. Homeopathy keeps it in the home, the hearth, the family and not in the hands of an external untrusted force.

Yes, you can overdose on over the counter vitamins. All but the B vitamins which are assilmated by the kidneys and excess is taken out in the urine. Cocaine is a very pure drug that also works like the B vitamins. But the current manufacture process makes it a dangerous street drug. Many prescriptions are made so cheaply that they aren't good for the body either. The only thing we can really count on is good breeding... which includes homeopathic tradition and knowledge.

Thank you all for great conversation!!!

reply to post by JJay55

My personal level is orange. There is a threat and that's definite, but its exact nature and lethality is not yet clear.

Now my own govt's ministry of health is saying no, there's no threat of an epidemic. Everything's normal. They sound so much like "Move along, nothing to see here" that it's sickening.

Meanwhile, our nation's top epidemiologist is at odds with them. She estimates we could see an infection rate of up to 30% and further, she says we're looking at a pandemic wave, not just an epidemic.

But like I said, the govt ministry doesn't agree. Considering what's going on relatively near to us (and is spreading) I find that attitude incredible. Well, except for the fact that it's the govt, where saying dumb things is quite normal and hence not incredible really...

So as we can never really trust govt. ministries I think the health officer's assessment is more reasonable.

We'll have to stock up even more than we already have.

Mike

[edit on 8/11/09 by JustMike]

reply to post by Angiras

The End Times is a common place we all visit in personal philosophy I suppose. Whether it's just plain death or crisis and natural diaster. I like the subject for the grounding and mind journey. If the subject is approached in fear it's not so fun.

reply to post by JustMike

For the government to go to orange alert it is quite costly. But the chart can be used for personal needs and should be. It's corney but provides a nice standard we can all identify with.

Orange alert almost bankrupted NYC. Especially the local agencies are overwhelmed with it. So there's another dilema... of dependence of the population. We can't wait for the government to afford our safety and we must act with the personal tools we have in order to increase our survival chances.

What does orange alert prompt you to do?

Garlic,

Garlic,

You know my family came from Austria, back in the day many held a slice of raw garlic in their mouth like, chew, to ward things off,

Raw garlic, if you can stomach it.

This versatile herb helps reduce cholesterol, triglycerides and blood pressure, thins the blood to prevent heart attacks and strokes, acts as an expectorant and decongestant to help prevent chronic bronchitis, fights infections and strengthens the immune system.
Related Results


Garlic is no Johnny-come-lately among health foods. It has a track record that goes back at least 5,000 years. One ancient Egyptian manuscript lists 22 medical ailments for which garlic is recommended, including headaches, throat disorders and physical weakness. Garlic was used as an energy booster by laborers building the pyramids.

Ancient physicians on every continent wrote about the curative powers of garlic. More recently, at the start of this century, garlic was used extensively for its antibiotic properties and, for a time, was the therapy of choice in some areas against tuberculosis.

In World War I, garlic was used to treat typhus and dysentery and, in World War II, to ward off septic poisoning and gangrene in battle wounds. It is still a staple in tropical medicine to fight typhus and cholera. Alternative doctors throughout the world use garlic to flush dangerous toxins from the body.

Onion too, and boil a chicken.

findarticles.com...

www.thespringoflife.net...

www.thesun.co.uk...

www.immunesupport.com...

[edit on 093030p://bSunday2009 by Stormdancer777]