Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Is he a vaccine supporter, or a vaccine denier? The target keeps moving. Hard to say. Claims he won't for his children (most at risk), but will for himself (who may have already had it). Is this a good thing? Or an example of self-preservation at the expense of others? Seems you'd go all in or all out, not in for oneself and out for their children.

Anyways. Just pointing out the emotional mess of "insider" connected ecoparity.

Who I actually don't necessarily disagree with, so much as I find his reasonings and CONCLUSIONS and actions from his information somewhat flawed and presented in a manner which is unnecessarily ego-aggrandizing.

Always something to be aware of in forums. There is a difference between information and conclusions formulated by the person presenting the information. And that the person and the information aren't the same thing, even when they try to make it seem like they are.

Reply to post by ecoparity

Ehm, looks like you didn't understand me. I am not going to convince you, that it's plague. Actually, i personaly don't believe so. My intention was just to clarify, and to remember that plague isn't present only in 3 bacterial forms.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by Aeons
I think I'll continue to look at the "scary" stuff, and trust that I am not so fragile.

Then go look at secondary infection rates that occur in hospitals and you can discover why some people call them roach motels, since your so inclined to fire your neurons with ways to die off or suffer.
[edit on 3-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Hm. Yes. I'd rather watch my children have chest pain and then drown in their own macrophages.

One should show reasonability to not seek medical attention UNLESS they have severe symptoms. Then they should proceed at all due haste.

Unless of course you happen to have a ventilator at home, and know how to intubate people.

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by Aeons
I think I'll continue to look at the "scary" stuff, and trust that I am not so fragile.

Then go look at secondary infection rates that occur in hospitals and you can discover why some people call them roach motels, since your so inclined to fire your neurons with ways to die off or suffer.





[edit on 3-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

I could make some very legitimate arguments for why people who refuse to get the vaccination are risking everyone else's health but I believe in your right to refuse them.

I avoid vaccines myself but if the threat is great enough I'm glad to have the option. There are quite a few people in Ukraine right now who probably wish they had that option and they're not alone in being without it.

I don't attack people for not wanting to get vaccines and really don't see anyone else doing so in the thread.

Why is it I have seen a number of anti vaccine persons attacking anyone who disagrees with that position?

You have your right not to take it but everyone should have the choice, this is an individual right, not something to be forced on anyone. I certainly don't favor forced vaccinations, why can't people on your side of the issue allow for the same freedom for everyone else?

I think we're all aware of the risks involved. For me its a matter of which risk is greater - nothing more.

Originally posted by nikiano
reply to post by Aeons

 

Actually, we very clearly stated that it is most likely not plague due to y. pestis. Please see the previous posts.

It seems to be a favourite supposition in general, not necessarily just here.

(sock puppet alert for post below! Thank you. I always appreciate that sort of extra effort!)

[edit on 2009/11/3 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons


Your entire post is an only argumentum ad hominem. It is utterly irelevant if he vaccinates his children or himself, so are his personal musings and yours. You don't seem to waste any energy on trying to deescalate. As far as I can remember, in the old thread you also didn't.

So, guys, time for a little resumee. Perhaps we can now put aside all the panic and calmly state that there are epidemic levels in the Ukraine and that this is the beginning of the second wave for Europe. I suppose that as soon as the wave starts in western Europe, it will be a lot easier to ascertain what is going on.

reply to post by Aeons


If you didn't have to twist my position around so much I might agree with you as well.

Don't compare me to the people on here who claim to have "secret inside info" and make all sorts of unsupported, insane claims. I was clear on who I was speaking to and how it came about and simply passed on the info they gave me, agreed to or not and I was always clear about that.

At that time the Mexico City outbreak was scary and not well reported in the media at all. I tried to share the warnings I was being given, period. I completely fail to see why you saw that as a negative and continue to do so. Jealousy perhaps?

When you have to twist someone else's position around to make them look bad it pretty much says everything there is to say about where you're coming from. You've played games and tried to twist every single issue w/ me. I'm curious if you really see things that way or if you just do it and hope others will fall for it?

If the former you might want to seek psychiatric help.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Originally posted by Aqwart
I am not going to convince you, that it's plague

I think it's besides H1N1 we also have media-driven consumption hog plague, that drives people to run to the doc for shots and to spend money on comfort food, drugs and booze, where the greatest risk is more debt and a larger spare tire.

I wonder what the percentages who recieved a regular flu or pneumonia shot last year was.




[edit on 3-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Looks like H1N1 / Infuenza is starting to be epidemic in other countries as well. Finland seems to be hit hard now and reports are coming about the illnesses throughout the country. Schools and kindergartens are getting empty since teachers as well as students are ill. 1 dead reported so far from H1N1. No statistics how many has it can be found yet though.

Source:
yle.fi...

But my point is, winter is coming and it really looks like it has taken over the seasonal flu. It started about a week back there from the northern parts of the country.

So maybe this is what we have happening in Ukraine, but the difference is, Finns are a lot better prepared from it than Ukraine was. And I don't believe Ukrainian situation to be that bad, it's serious yes, but not that bad, in other words, it is hyped. Part of this is political which was taken into extremes when they saw the opportunity in it. That they are asking for more money just shows it once again. You give money to the goverment official's hands and it just disappears, maybe 10% of it getting to the actual source. (yes, that was just a speculation with the 10% don't take that as a fact and start another argument and attack in this thread with me about it please, we already have enough of those Thank You)

could a moderator please ban ecoparity from here or warn him, he just wont stop.... this is starting to not be a good thread and all this bickering seems to be centered on him and its drowning out any info others and myself post.. thank you

[edit on 3-11-2009 by TheCoffinman]

well somebody needs to do something, use the ignore button, u2u the bickering but please, STOP.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by TheCoffinman]

reply to post by TheCoffinman


Sorry mate but I strongly disagree .

He really was attacked and ridiculed without any reason and he is giving a lots of important facts / opinions in this thread.

EDIT:

I disagree with the ban, but I agree that this fingerpointing has to stop now. Please guys?

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Luppakorva]

Entyou know i will post as i dam well please and if that bothers you guess wqhat? i will say again i am not under your approval or seattletruth i really would love to know where you guys come from ? we are dealing with deaths and serious situations in the world and you worry about iypos and being on your approval lists here since dam when am i suppose to be on your radar?



All Caps removed

[edit on 3/11/09 by masqua]

reply to post by Aeons


I remember you from the previous thread with your pompous and personal attacks on Ecoparity - someone who was providing invaluable info and insights who you and a few others drove away thus killing the thread.

And now you're here doing it again? Why?

And Ecoparity, why haven't you done what I'm about to do and put this poster on ignore? I don't want you to disappear from this thread as well.

www.prisonplanet.com...

good run down of all the conflicting reports and the moshe coicedence

Pneumonic Plague

The most apparent symptom of pneumonic plague is coughing, often with hemoptysis (coughing up blood). With pneumonic plague, the first signs of illness are fever, headache, weakness, and rapidly developing pneumonia with shortness of breath, chest pain, cough, and sometimes bloody or watery sputum.The pneumonia progresses for two to four days and may cause respiratory failure and shock. Without early treatment, patients will die, some within 24 hours.

When they begin, pneumonic plague symptoms can often include:
* Fever
* Weakness
* Headache
Rapidly developing pneumonia with:
* Shortness of breath
* Chest pain
* Cough
* Bloody or watery sputum (saliva and discharge from respiratory passages).

Doesn't sound like that in the Ukraine, the catch is spitting up blood and death with 24 hours.
Basically once you start coughing up massive amounts of blood your lungs are fatally wounded from the inside.

The scary thing about this disease is that it's airborne. It is a similar plague to the one as seen in the 1995 movie Outbreak
My question is are there ANY reports of people coughing up copious amounts of blood?

reply to post by akkad


I don't understand it myself but it seems I've become the swine flu punching bag. I've challenged some bad info which is what I thought we do here, you know - deny ignorance and other people have thier own motivations.

I'm really not into being attacked constantly, I don't enjoy it and would prefer to discuss the issue at hand but I've made a point with the moderators here that ATS threads always do this. IMO we need some true moderation beyond just enforcing the T&C, a moderator is someone who oversees a debate and makes sure it progresses with logic, not branch off into playground politics and tactics.

So, I'll stick it out and let the random attacks continue, it doesn't bother me and I'm not going to walk away again. If people want to get angry with me for being attacked by people I didn't even post to then so be it.

reply to post by JJay55


I personally emailed Foxnews.com about the virus in the Ukraine last week, on thursday Oct.29th...only a short article in Foxnews online and that is it. Can we say govt. control over media re: panic over a pneumonic plague?
Elienne

I think some of you guys need to chill out, stop arguing, and get some perspective. Your bickering doesn't prove anything, or help anyone.

Why not get back tobasics and help each other as a group find the truth about this situation, please, otherwise this thread is in serious trouble!

Please don't ruin the hard work of hundreds of posters, and members in serious peril at 'ground zero' , please guys!

Kiwifoot

Originally posted by Blue_Jay3

My question is are there ANY reports of people coughing up copious amounts of blood?

No, but there are reports of hemorrhaging and liquified lungs on autopsy.

If you have hemorrhaging lungs, I guess it would be easy to cough up blood...however, nobody on here was really thinking that THE pneumonic plague was what was in the Ukraine. Most of us just thought that they were calling this a pneumonic plague in the general sense. (Pneumonic means lung, and plague meaning infectious disease.)

[edit on 3-11-2009 by nikiano]

edit to add: However, now that I think about it, someone said that THE pneumonic plague had shown up in Chechnya and China not long ago....so then again, I guess it can't be completely ruled out! Forgot about that....

[edit on 3-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by akkad


I remember you from the previous thread with your pompous and personal attacks on Ecoparity - someone who was providing invaluable info and insights who you and a few others drove away thus killing the thread.

I agree that Ecoparity provided some interesting information, much of which was not available anywhere else - at least as far as I could tell. He seems to have some good sources and I want him to continue to post his information.

I dont take anyone at face value but his past information has proven to be pretty accurate.