Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Originally posted by cosmicpixie
Well it's clearly not some awful plague, as people have been pointing out if it WAS then dead bodies would be piling up in the streets. Anyone who cannot see this is clearly unable or unwilling to READ about just what a plague would do to a population. The mortality rate of the virus is very low, it just sounds like H1N1 that has some more severe effects in certain people that have been freaking the health care workers out as they've not seen anything like it before. This is how rumours get spread and bad journalism then results from said rumours and ensuing speculation.

Bottom line is that the virus is not really killing a high percentage of people, so it doesn't at this stage look like the feared mutation has taken place ? The real problem is perhaps more to do with the amount of people getting sick at one time and the accompanying pressure this puts on the health care system and economy.

Since they are refering to it as California H1N1, and there were some early deaths in California in the spring which probably came directly from the Mexico infection that also had some pretty quick mortality reates....I'd suspect that we are seeing a re-emergence of that variation OR a mutation that is the exact same mutation as that early one was.

That happens sometimes. Same mutation happens in the same variable region in the same way. Which would suggest that it would probably peter out the same way the first mutation of that type did.

www.google.com...

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.google.com...

Seventy-one people have died as a result of flu and acute respiratory infections, the Ukrainian health ministry said, but the pandemic A(H1N1) virus has been confirmed in only one of the fatal cases.

Originally posted by Aeons
Quite the opposite. In this thread I quite specifically explained why this outbreak in the Ukraine is H1N1, and why there is confusion about it. This would actually appear to back up your posts on this thread.

Yet you can't figure out why the fact they refuse to test people and tell them for sure if they had the swine flu leaves them at risk? Right.

If you have some agenda I'm messing with then defend it. If I'm posting info you disagree with then dispute it. If you just don't like me then tough, I really don't care much for you either but I didn't address a post to you first, did I?

I'm the lightning rod for the "swine flu is a hoax" and "vaccines are bioweapons" apparently. It would be nice for the discussion to be able to go for a page without someone taking a swipe at me. It's like junior high recess in here.

some of you say, that if it was plague, then tons of bodies would cover the streets by now. It doesn't have to be true; check hemorrhagic plague virus, which is believed to have 32 days incubation time...

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Aqwart]

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by Aeons
Quite the opposite. In this thread I quite specifically explained why this outbreak in the Ukraine is H1N1, and why there is confusion about it. This would actually appear to back up your posts on this thread.

Yet you can't figure out why the fact they refuse to test people and tell them for sure if they had the swine flu leaves them at risk? Right.

If you have some agenda I'm messing with then defend it. If I'm posting info you disagree with then dispute it. If you just don't like me then tough, I really don't care much for you either but I didn't address a post to you first, did I?

I'm the lightning rod for the "swine flu is a hoax" and "vaccines are bioweapons" apparently. It would be nice for the discussion to be able to go for a page without someone taking a swipe at me. It's like junior high recess in here.

Again. I specifically explained to people in the previous thread why it is that everyone cannot be tested as there is simply not enough labs or technicians for it. That a differential diagnosis would be the most obvious route after confirming the original infections or serious infections.

Perhaps you should try not to act like a know-it-all-special-bully, and people won't have the urge to take you down a notch. Which is suspiciously similar to the advice you gave another person on this thread that so long as they act in a certain manner, they deserve to be treated with disdain.

What is that advice.....right....if the circumstance changes, and the environment changes, and the people change, but you get the same results in your interpersonal affairs, maybe its you.

reply to post by Aeons


I haven't attacked anyone, if people feel like attacking me for posting information and correcting really, really bad info that's causing panic then that's really not my problem. To me it just looks like typical ATS thread jacking. Don't debate the data or defend your own, just attack the poster.

The official policy in the US is not to test. Most places don't even want you to come in, they just want a phone call and they treat you as if you have the flu. If things continued the way they have its not a big deal but if there is a mutation and it goes global all those people like me who weren't tested are going to be left wondering if they actually had the virus or not and you know what the official response will be to that question?

You should have gotten / should get the vaccine then.

I have two little children who I don't want to give the vaccine to. I can isolate them now, we home schooled this school year just because of the previous issues (which surrounded one of your previous accusations of flip flopping if I remember) but one of us has to go out. That means that one person, (me) has to be vaccinated to make sure I don't infect my kids. As usual your take on that is that I'm flip flopping?

How ironic for you to bring up the description of a "know it all bully".

reply to post by Aeons


I haven't attacked anyone, if people feel like attacking me for posting information and correcting really, really bad info that's causing panic then that's really not my problem. To me it just looks like typical ATS thread jacking. Don't debate the data or defend your own, just attack the poster.

The official policy in the US is not to test. Most places don't even want you to come in, they just want a phone call and they treat you as if you have the flu. If things continued the way they have its not a big deal but if there is a mutation and it goes global all those people like me who weren't tested are going to be left wondering if they actually had the virus or not and you know what the official response will be to that question?

You should have gotten / should get the vaccine then.

I have two little children who I don't want to give the vaccine to. I can isolate them now, we home schooled this school year just because of the previous issues (which surrounded one of your previous accusations of flip flopping if I remember) but one of us has to go out. That means that one person, (me) has to be vaccinated to make sure I don't infect my kids. As usual your take on that is that I'm flip flopping?

How ironic for you to bring up the description of a "know it all bully".

Romanian Health Minister forced to resign for swine flu quotes:

And in Romania today, a top health ministry official resigned after announcing on national TV that 20,000 people could die from swine flu in that one nation alone. Miles Ashdown has more. A Romanian presidential adviser said the Health Ministry Secretary of State caused a ‘futile sense of panic” and should ‘no longer appear in public.” Dr. Adrian Streniu Cercel said the 20,000 deaths would be the minimum. Citing personal reasons, the doctor resigned today -- just a month after being appointed. Before leaving his post, Streinu announced the health ministry would quarantine all Romanian hospitals from visitors and create separate emergency wards for people with flu symptoms. Additionally, hospitals will start vaccinations later this month of 1.3 million medical staff, and high school and university students in the capital Bucharest and the northeastern city of Iasi. Romania is one of eight countries in the world that can produce the vaccine. The Romanian president called today for the public and media to remain calm and to act responsibility. Last week, Romania’s interim health minister said the ministry is considering banning public gatherings. According to the Romanian health ministry, the country has 555 registered cases of swine flu. 174 were reported over the past week.

www.fsrn.org...

Originally posted by Aqwart
some of you say, that if it was plague, then tons of bodies would cover the streets by now. It doesn't have to be true; check hemorrhagic plague virus, which is believed to have 32 days incubation time...

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Aqwart]

With 250 thousand listed as infected they would be in the terminal stage by now. The first cases began more than a month ago also.

But, I don't want to be a bully by correcting you so if you want to believe the plague is ravaging Ukraine then by all means, please do. I won't be upset or feel a need to attack you for it.

reply to post by Sharrow


I agree with you on this. It was Georgia who started to rumble and got out with a bloody nose. But let's not stir that into this thread, I think it is off topic and big time.

The problem with this thread is, just like Ecoparity described:

"This is what killed the original swine flu thread. People filling up page after page with non sourced, unproven crap just to pick a fight and troll."

And I have to agree that's exactly what is happening in here, if I have pointed out information not to be correct and I get very aggressive answers from that. Another thing is if my information has been something which is not that "interesting plague stuff" but instead showing the facts and oh so boring world without any real cover ups or conspiracies in this case I get attacked and ridiculed about it, even been called as dis info agent based into this.

False information without any proof to back it up with those attacks towards the ones who really are trying to figure it out what is going on makes it ...well, impossible to find out what is really going on. That's the reason why I have been asking to stop spreading it in this thread as well and I'm sure that is the reason why Ecoparity is doing the very same thing.

And 250km's to Kiev? I'm not that near but it's not too long trip from here either. If it is something else than it is, it is already here, and it is already there so we should really start to see it now. Have you heard anything local? I haven't so far.

reply to post by ecoparity



Ah yes. the flip flopping.

You now talk about being vaxed, but freaked out about homeschooling your children so that they won't be vaxed.....AND get mad at other people's paranoia about vaccines.

Good stuff.

****

Support for the H1N1 / Viral Pneumonia connection. WHO stipulated in the middle of October that the most common cause of quick death with H1N1 is conjunction with pneumonia, and then bacterial infections.

There are two variations of this. One is that the persons get sick with the flu, then gets better, then suddenly gets worse. This seems to often coincide with a drop in body temperature below normal.

The second is a rapid onset of both conditions at the same time, leading to a a 24 hour to 3 day window of severe reaction which can lead to death untreated. These people often do not present with a fever.

The quickest easiest way to figure out if you've recently gotten swine flu is by its unusual symptoms. Chest wall pain. Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. Chest wall pain should have you seeing a clinic for evaluation.

[edit on 2009/11/3 by Aeons]

Those who want to be tested, then it's a just matter of opening thy wallet.

Focus Diagnostics Launches 2009 H1N1 Flu Test Kit To Commercial Laboratories In The U.S.

Otherwise it's treated as the regular flu, which has a higher fatality rate.

In any event, people are more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the doctor and yet they still drive knowing the odds. So much for logical priorities and risk assessment in the land of drama queens and paranoia.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Those who want to be tested, then it's a just matter of opening thy wallet.

Focus Diagnostics Launches 2009 H1N1 Flu Test Kit To Commercial Laboratories In The U.S.

Otherwise it's treated as the regular flu, which has a higher fatality rate.

In any event, people are more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the doctor and yet they still drive knowing the odds. So much for logical priorities and risk assessment in the land of drama queens and paranoia.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

If you have symptoms of the severe form, it is very prudent to be concerned.

reply to post by JJay55


This reminds me from the fact that OP was just next to hospital, he even took photo from the hospital to us. I think that he would have seen some sort of activity like this if it would have been going on. ..Still, nothing. He has been very aware about his surroundings as well for example reporting even plane sounds, so... I think there's not too many dead people in there. they would have taken them out, naturally.

Originally posted by Aeons
If you have symptoms of the severe form, it is very prudent to be concerned.

Then you go to the hospital, so just keep in mind your more likely to die in a auto accident on the way there, especially if your dizzy with flu. Then you can catch something else more fatal in a lobby full of sick people.

And so your point is to worry about "what if's", which actually can suppress your immune system and open you up to many other forms of illness?









[edit on 3-11-2009 by Regenmacher]

Pneumonic plague, which seems to be the diagnosis of preference of those who think that this is not H1N1 complications, would be treatable with antibiotics.

Yestis pestis is imminently treatable.

I've read about the "black lung" thing that seems to be being linked to the Ukraine. Sepsis sets in with cytokine storms. This could make the lungs appear "black."

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by Aeons
If you have symptoms of the severe form, it is very prudent to be concerned.

Then you go to the hospital, so just keep in mind your more likely to die in a auto accident on the way there, especially if your dizzy with flu, Then you catch something else more fatal in a lobby full of sick people.

And so your point is to worry about "what if's", which actually can suppress your immune system and open you up to many other forms of illness?

I think I'll continue to look at the "scary" stuff, and trust that I am not so fragile.

reply to post by Aeons


There you go with another bad assumption. I'm hopeschooling my child because they refused to close the school when swine flu was going around here immediately after Mexico City.

We kept her home as long as we could until we were threatened with a call to the police.

I posted about this and you accused me of being "dishonest" because if I were "so concerned about the swine flu I would not send my daughter to school no matter what".

I had a choice between risking her getting the flu or getting a visit from child protective services, an agency which has had numerous pedophilia scandals in my state, by the way.

But no, according to you and elitegamer I was "flip flopping".

Well, we home schooled her this year for that specific reason and I'm so glad we did. The number of home schooled children sky rocketed this year in my state - directly as a result of the schools refusing to cancel classes while children were getting sick in droves.

Now, this year they're closing schools left and right. I wonder why?

Oh, and they have these things called "waivers" if you don't want to vax your children and they go to public school. In my state they have no choice but to accept said waiver. It was never about vaccination.

Glad to see your still just as full of crap as you were 6 months ago.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by ecoparity]

[edit on 3-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by Aeons


Actually, we said that it is most likely not plague due to y. pestis.

(edited by myself for tone...sorry! didn't mean to be quite so....)

[edit on 3-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 3-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by Aeons
I think I'll continue to look at the "scary" stuff, and trust that I am not so fragile.

Then go look at secondary infection rates that occur in hospitals and you can discover why some people call them roach motels, since your so inclined to fire your neurons with ways to die off or suffer.





[edit on 3-11-2009 by Regenmacher]