Stop bashing us skeptics/debunkers and learn to think logically and with reason!, page 9

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reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 09:55 PM by trey85

I think your the one that needs to do your reasearch.Skeptics are are great to have around.Its just the ones like you that dont bring up no reasonable debate what so ever (close minded idiots)Theres no telling how many trillions of planets that exit in the universe ,but where the only one that has life on it .This is just insane.(theres a reasonable debate)

reply posted on 29-10-2009 @ 10:00 PM by EsSeeEye

Originally posted by trey85
)Theres no telling how many trillions of planets that exit in the universe ,but where the only one that has life on it .This is just insane.(theres a reasonable debate)

Yet it's not insane to believe that just because there could be life in the universe, that means it's absolutely visiting us? There's a very large leap in logic between simply accepting the likelihood that there is other intelligent life, and piggybacking that same likelihood into the belief that those intelligent life-forms have found us and are visiting.

The universe is massive, and there's a LOT of room for other intelligent species to have evolved, but all that room means it's that much more unlikely these creatures have found little old us.

reply posted on 30-10-2009 @ 12:46 AM by Skeptical Ed

Originally posted by Darkside Agent
reply to post by Skeptical Ed

I am a person who believes that there is some form of other life out there, whether its microbacterial or a fully developed species capable of time travel i have no idea....allthough i would lean towards: If we find just one type of living organism, that means there must be more right? Of course, this is just my opinion, not based in fact.
snip

Skeptical Ed: "I didn't reply to you earlier 'cause your method of copying and pasting in quoting me confused me. But now I get you. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion regarding other life out there aside from humans. However, I cannot think like you. Numbers are meaningless if they're made up which is what people such as Drake and others have done. I can do the same and say that x amount of planets just have to contain some kind of life. Can I prove it? No. Can they prove it? No."

"To you, a UFO did crash in Roswell"
Can you prove one didnt? If a UFO did crash, doesnt mean there were aliens in it....just that a UFO crashed there....see the difference?

SE: "It's not up to me to prove a claim I didn't make. The claim is that a UFO did crash at Roswell. The onus for evidence is on anyone supporting making or supporting the claim. I'd rather accept the original reports as found in the 1947 newspapers and I understand why it was claimed that a UFO crashed. Would you prefer that the Russians find out that the U.S. gov't was spying on them with certain type of "primitive" ears? No UFO crash, no aliens, no craft taken somewhere for reverse engineering. If it had been as you prefer to believe the event would not have been forgotten for almost 30 years!"

"To you, the U.S. Gov't (and other governments) has UFO secrets that are going to be "disclosed" (yeah!)."

They have ufo related documents that are going to be released, multiple countries have already started...are you attaching UFO to aliens? you do know that UFO means unidentified flying object dont you? Doesn't always mean aliens....

SE: "Of course our gov't has secret documents that mention UFOs. We've know about them since at least 1984 when CLEAR INTENT was published. The documents are heavily blacked out because some of the information reveals how the particular agencies gather data and other sensitive information. Information that won't help anyone outside of their circles. In all of my posts since the 1990s I've never linked aliens to UFOs."

Basically, if something is presented as alien, i willl look at it with a skeptical but open mind, as there is a lot of cr*p being given out at present, with no facts to back it up...but being generalised by people like yourself without taking the time to find out what their personal beliefs are, is very narrow minded imo

SE: "If you believe aliens exist and they're interacting with humans, don't worry, be happy."

im agreeing with you on one part - some of the 'believers' on here arent helpin the cause and wont accept hard fact refuting their case because they just want to believe - im not one of them

SE: "Bingo! "

[edit on 30-10-2009 by Skeptical Ed]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 07:22 PM by Aliensun

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

Excuse me, Skeptical Ed, if I paint you with a broad but succinct brush: It isn't that you dont believe (in whatever) it is that you WON"T believe.

What is it you won't believe? The Drake equation? That ETs come here from one star or many? That our terrific government would not cover up and hide that knowledge? That abductions (testing) of humans is common practice? That our roots may be intertwined with ETs all of the way back to our post-monkey days? Where does your beliefs draw a limit to what an open mind would allow? Do us all a favor and spell out what you accept.

As a warning, don't follow the old Sagan logic and reasoning that parroted the dogma of conventional Science to make your argument. His typical argument of logic and reasoning was, "Yes, they are out there. But, no, they can't get here." Let me give you a clue about the supposed holy maxim that "nothing can exceed the speed of light." Maybe that is true (recent experiements tend to disprove that) but with a ship--seemingly very much like your garden varienty UFO seen around our world all of the time, all you need to do is eliminate the mass of a vehicle and star travel is a piece of cake. In other words, lyour superior ogic and reasoning must all be based on what you think is possible. That is just not acceptable. That, Ed, is where logic and reasoning fails you. Experience is the key, and I guess you've never had the right kind. Too bad, it would really expand your horizons and give you a far better perspective on the incredible state of th Universe.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 07:28 PM by Skeptical Ed

reply to post by Aliensun

We are on totally different mental levels. I'm happy with mine, couldn't exist in yours. I welcome your comments but, please, do not use the word "believe" as if I was lacking something that doesn't allow me to understand. Since you are a believer, by your words, then you couldn't understand the mind of someone that's free of beliefs as I am.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 08:12 PM by stanmagicman

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

How Small is my mind and what could I have been thinking! You Sir MUST be A god, seeing how YOU and your friends can Logically & skeptacally deciepher, debunk and decode all things for us.
I am sure glad I don't have to think any more with or come up with MY OWN conclusions and beliefs you doing it all for the rest of us MIND NUMBED ROBOTS.
Evolution-How is that working out for you? Find any transitional species lately? Shouldn't species evolve into Better states instead of worst states? survival of the fittest!!!!!!
Global Warming-how do we solve that false problem????

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:51 AM by xelamental

Originally posted by Aliensun
As a warning, don't follow the old Sagan logic and reasoning that parroted the dogma of conventional Science to make your argument. His typical argument of logic and reasoning was, "Yes, they are out there. But, no, they can't get here."

Unfortunately for you, the numbers work out. Why do the best minds in phyics agree with sagan, yet you don't? Do you have an experiment to share?

Let me give you a clue about the supposed holy maxim that "nothing can exceed the speed of light." Maybe that is true

If it is, they won't be here for a long, long time.

(recent experiements tend to disprove that)

Examples please?

but with a ship--seemingly very much like your garden varienty UFO seen around our world all of the time, all you need to do is eliminate the mass of a vehicle and star travel is a piece of cake.

I didn't know it was so easy. All we have to do is eliminate mass!

It's so simple!
Perhaps someone eliminated the mass of your logic circuits?

In other words, lyour superior ogic and reasoning must all be based on what you think is possible. That is just not acceptable. That, Ed, is where logic and reasoning fails you.

I would suspect a lack of mass in your neocortex rather than skeptical eds.

Experience is the key, and I guess you've never had the right kind. Too bad, it would really expand your horizons and give you a far better perspective on the incredible state of th Universe.

Enlighten us.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 11:58 AM by Pathos

On Friday the 13th around 5:00pm, I will show the believers something very rational. If what I have to share does not convince the believers otherwise, (the necessity and importance of skeptic/critics), no one in these forums can help you guys.

Lets just say I am... Well, if I were to share it with everyone, before next week, it would not make much of an impact.

Believers need skeptics BIG time.

Originally posted by trey85
I think your the one that needs to do your research. Skeptics are are great to have around. Its just the ones like you that don't bring up no reasonable debate what so ever (close minded idiots).

hmmm...interesting.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Pathos]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 11:24 PM by Skeptical Ed

reply to post by Pathos

I'm gonna have to notify Hugh (Hefner!) that I'm gonna have to put his invitation for me to spend all of next week in his mansion on hold! Sorry girls!

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Skeptical Ed]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 01:43 AM by nightmare_david

Originally posted by Pathos
On Friday the 13th around 5:00pm, I will show the believers something very rational. If what I have to share does not convince the believers otherwise, (the necessity and importance of skeptic/critics), no one in these forums can help you guys.

Lets just say I am... Well, if I were to share it with everyone, before next week, it would not make much of an impact.

Believers need skeptics BIG time.[edit on 1-11-2009 by Pathos]

If you really had something as important as you're implying, you wouldn't have to wait until a certain time.

That tells me it's nothing really important at all.*Snip*

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 11/2/2009 by semperfortis]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 02:57 AM by The Third Eye

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
Geez, I'm so sick and tired of seeing threads with titles attacking skeptics and debunkers as if the people posting such threads were the brightest stars in the sky! Believers have a problem with skeptics because skeptics put believers in their place. An extremely large percentage of ATS members, participating in the Aliens and UFOs forum, are believers and, trust me, that doesn't say much for them. Yea, they find a lot of company to commiserate with.

If it wasn't for skeptics this planet would have gone to hell in a handbasket! Look, believers, you are a gullible bunch. You accept whatever comes down the pike and the last thing you do is consider irrefutable evidence. To you, everything is as claimed. You don't have a curious bone in your body. None of you are scientists. None of you do in-depth research before you come to conclusions.

To you, a UFO did crash in Roswell. To you, millions of humans have been abducted by aliens. To you, there's a variety of aliens from greys to reptilians to Nordic to... To you, the U.S. Gov't (and other governments) has UFO secrets that are going to be "disclosed" (yeah!). To you, there are "captured" UFOs in Area 51 that are being reversed-engineered. To you, ...

Take advantage of the great tool being offered to you, our logical, reasoning minds!

Of course, it goes without saying that this thread if replied to by believers will be bombarded with insults 'cause logic is not their game.

How about it, skeptics, why don't you vent your frustrations with these don't-show-me-no-irrefutable-evidence-I-don't-need-it, I believe it cause he/she said so!

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Skeptical Ed]

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Skeptical Ed]

To each his own OP.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 07:48 AM by Pathos

Originally posted by nightmare_david
If you really had something as important as you're implying, you wouldn't have to wait until a certain time.

That tells me it's nothing really important at all.

You have a right to your own opinion. If you want to learn something from a skeptic, I invite you to tune into ATS next week.

Since I work a full time job, I am only able to work on the project in spurts. What I can tell you is that I'm doing extensive research. I want to give you guys something to examine, but I want it to have credible sources (and some back up credible sources). Only one piece of information I have comes from Wikipedia, and that is in the form of an image. Everything else I will be providing has gone under extreme scrutiny.

After discovering many-many credible pieces of information, based upon what I'm doing, I can honestly tell you that believers are missing several important facts.

When you guys called skeptics idiots and fools, you ended up placing a challenge onto the table. I accepted your challenge.

We are going to find out if believers can also accept real hard facts.

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

"God bless you man!"

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Pathos]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 08:12 AM by Imagir

ATS Skeptics, please take a look at this thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please watch the files and after ask to yourself: IF ONLY ONE of these people, or of these photo, or of these images, or of these videos, or of these scientific data on the ground..... IS REAL , THEN THIS PHENOMENON EXIST?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Imagir]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 08:41 AM by xelamental

Originally posted by Imagir
ATS Skeptics, please take a look at this thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please watch the files and after ask to yourself: IF ONLY ONE of these people, or of these photo, or of these images, or of these videos, or of these scientific data on the ground..... IS REAL , THEN THIS PHENOMENON EXIST?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Imagir]

And if all of them aren't then we are back to reality. Without the ability to TEST evidence, it's not evidence - it's a mockery of the word.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 08:47 AM by v01i0

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

And you are here doing the same, other way around. Why would you be so sick of bashing skeptics? You shouldn't be moved at all if someone wants to question your way of perceiving the reality.

Why should I be bothered if someone says that I am an idiot, believer or governmental dis-information agent? I shouldn't and I wouldn't.

IMO, this thread is one of those that should be moved into rant categories.

-v

[edit on 2-11-2009 by v01i0]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 09:06 AM by Imagir

reply to post by xelamental

Evidently you have not seen not even one of those files.

Your skeptical arrogance is a tremendous offense to human intelligence. You can be classified like a pathological skeptic. Don't be scared,otherwiseYou do not have hope. Sorry.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:33 PM by Pathos

Imagir,
I don't feel threatened by people who think aliens have been visiting Earth; however, I do have a problem with people who quickly jump to that one conclusion. Without any regard to everything that happens around a UFO sighting, many (not all) believers steer the story towards aliens. I will go on record saying that (as a skeptic) I don't have all the answers, but the answers I do have are from analyzing the bigger picture. Honing in on one piece of evidence within someone's testimony is foolish, so you have to take a step back and analyze the larger story not being told.

Sure, some pieces we present will fall through to the floor. That is what reality is all about. You pull pieces together to make your puzzle, you pick it off the table, and anything that doesn't hold firmly falls through to the floor. So, you find other pieces that may fit into the empty spaces. If the majority of the puzzle hits the floor, your original puzzle (theory) needs to be re-examined. Hardcore Ufologists try to keep the theory together, and they disregard that all of the pieces have fallen.

Skeptics, similar to myself in nature, look at a UFO sighting report, and then pull back to see what is happening in the world. If believers continue to refuse to look at the outer events, they will miss the actual 'truth' behind a sighting. 'Almost' every believer in these forums does that. They never-ever step back to see the whole picture. It is beyond their comprehension.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Pathos]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:43 PM by Imagir

reply to post by Pathos

Do you see this thread and all the files? www.abovetopsecret.com...
Do You have wondered if only one of these things is real, then what would happen?
May be I don't understand, but what is the "whole picture that is beyond our comprehension"?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Imagir]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:52 PM by Armour For Victor

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

I only have one small point to make, simple and sweet.
You post this in response of believers who bash the skeptics, yet in this very post you do the same...how so?

Peace!

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:53 PM by Pathos

Originally posted by Imagir
reply to post by Pathos

Do you see this thread and all the files? www.abovetopsecret.com...
You have wondered if only one of these things is real, then what would happen?
May be I don't understand, but what is the "whole picture that is beyond our comprehension"?

After learning about what I did during my research, I can honestly tell you that none of the pro-alien stories are real. You might get a 5% prevalence of something being unexplained, but that doesn't mean its a smoking gun that supports an alien presence.