Why would anyone take us seriously?

for my 2 cents i put forward this scenario. What if we were believable and were waking up too many people to the dangers of various seen and unseen aspects of government and our society. People have been hunted down for much lesser crimes against tptb. This is what we should want. For some reason people believe me but i do not tell most what i know because that burden is not what many people were born to be. It is what we were born to be... thrust into shadows knowing truth upon truth that can never leave the darkness that divides us from the unawakened sheep.

just my 2 cents

reply to post by SaturnFX


i completely agree with you. I never said (as someone suggested) that the topics themselves should be regulated, i do like the variety of views, but that's besides the point. as you have said better than i could, the nature of this site must allow for the outrageous to be discussed as well. I do still feel that if you are creating a thread to try and bring about a change in something that bothers you, then try to shy away from thread titles that will scare away your target audience. But if you don't really expect to change anyone's mind with a thread, maybe you only seek to vent, or seek validation from like minded people, then pay no attention to the volitile nature of the title.
It's the very way that we discuss the material that i think should have some form of conduct. you gave the perfect example in your post. star for you!
publius

There is a line, a blurry one, in which we decipher the difference between knowledge and information. We each draw our own line.

ATS is like a republic, a crowd of people with voices and opinions. The minute you begin to censor/control/filter the information routed through here you are crossing another blurry line similar to the line between government and dictatorship.

I agree ATS is a great venue for exploring and learning about "the hidden paradigm". I also agree a large majority of the content posted here is not central to the real world goal of exposing global paradigmatic corruption.

BUT I for one am not sure where the line between the truth and the fantasy truly is so I cannot and will not force that division upon anyone. I think the MODs are doing a great job of corralling the content into areas of interest and I for one am not afraid of a little muckraking.

The moment you filter the content to suit your personal agenda is the moment you become them.

Give them the URL, let them decide for themselves whats real.

There is a fine line between insanity and genius. They thought Einstein was nuts when he proposed the concept that time had to be flexible rather than universal and static, as was previously believed, to solve the problems scientists were having with the inconsistencies of relativity in his day. When he came up with Special Relativity he suffered much ridicule by the scientific community. He was considered nuts and a wack job for many years afterward. Eventually he was proven correct… just ask the people in Hiroshima or the fact that they have to account for temporal effects of special relativity on the space shuttle.

There are many instances of people espousing wild theories throughout history, only later to be proven correct. Granted 99.99% of those crazy theories are just that, crazy. I read ATS shaking my head 99.99% of the time, waiting for that 0.01% where someone is really on to something. They are out there or none of us would keep coming back. It’s painful, yes, but we wait for the payoff, when it occasionally comes along.


The two paragraphs above summarize the only point I was trying to make but while I’m at it, I want to air a grievance that I have on this topic of who is “crazy” and who isn’t. Read on at your discretion.

My biggest problem with people’s crazy claims is that anytime someone like me, who actually IS a scientist and engineer working in a key position in defense, sheds some light on a relevant topic that I happen to be an expert on, the “morons and crazies” out there call me a liar or nuts. It’s very frustrating. I don’t dare mention security clearances or inside information I gain from high-ranking military or politicians, because people will instantly run me down the river. Why? I mean, here I am, one of the actual non-crazies, who IS in the know on certain things but if I dare open my mouth I’m immediately attacked.

In addition to my scientific background I have actually spent a significant amount of time in my life pounding the pavement doing research on UFOs and other paranormal topics, but dare I open my mouth, I am smacked down by 100 people who have NOTHING to offer but regurgitated crap from other websites. This atmosphere does NOT invite intelligent or well-read people to participate. These days I usually just sit and read and keep my mouth shut. So if one looks for the 0.01% posts that are well thought out and intelligent, they may be even harder to find due to the fact that real data gets attacked harshly. Why? Because people can’t verify one’s claims by searching for them in Google? Well duh! It’s good information because it HASN’T been brought to the table before and won’t necessarily be verifiable.

The few times I have jumped into conversations regarding science, I’m told to shut up by people who admit they have no more than a high school knowledge of physics. As far as I can tell, that’s why there are almost no “experts” to be found commenting on ATS. People like Stanton Friedman or Steven Hawkings will never be found commenting on ATS, although they are sited in sources all the time. There have actually been instances where topics have been raised regarding military technology that I designed. I tried to shed a little light on the topic and people said, “yeah sure…. like we believe you worked on that…shut up…go away…etc” Well that’s just great, you just turned away the one person who actually knew what they were talking about (on a particular topic). Then the forum went right back to babbling on with empty conjecture and nonsense while I sit here at my desk looking at the actual design blueprints. Really moronic huh?

I have invited people who doubted me to come down here to my work. I’d be glad to greet you in the lobby and show you my credentials. That’s as far as I can bring you of course, but then maybe then you won’t crap all over a clearly qualified opinion.

Once I got so ticked off because I was called a liar about something I had discussed with a US senator that I finally actually posted a picture of her and I sitting in the actual meeting talking together where we discussed it, much to the risk of revealing my identity, I wanted to prove that I wasn’t full of crap. After proving that I actually was for real, my opponent came back with a remark along the lines that I must not be trusted because I was PART of the thing. You really can’t win with these jerks. I mean, here I am, trying to help further a discussion with really good information, and I’m not believed, then when I am believed I’m told I can’t be trusted because I’m too close to it. It’s pure insanity. How does anyone ever expect to get any intelligent people posting with that sort of attitude? Anyway, this is my first post in a long time and I’ll be going back to keeping my mouth shut and just reading.


That’s my two cents. (Second line. lol)

Edited typos.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by JonInMichigan]

reply to post by DaMod


maybe you can help me find a word for something i'm trying to describe. I did go back and read the thread about "religion must die" after the earlier talk, and it's a good article with a lot of good points in it that i agree with even. But, the title itself is going to make a lot of folks who NEED to read it (IMO anyway) turn the other way. Is there a word for describing a situation like that? Where the content inside something is much more serious and thought out than the headline implies? I only ask because it bothers me now. it is a skunk works title with some great ATS material inside, and i just want to know why one would choose to lose potential readers that way. I mean, i'm not even religious, but i saw that title and thought "oh me, another nut. What else is there?"
am i saying we should not be allowed to name them however we want? NO! The only thngs i think we shouldn't allow is the name calling and 2nd line people, and those who just swear for the sake of it, things like that. The OP of that post should OF COURSE be able to name it however they choose, and they should be able to make ANY thread just about, but i do want to get people thinking about their audience when they create threads here. It would be nice if we all tried to steer towards reaching those who have not yet woke up, instead of alienating them, laughing smugly at the embers from bridges burning behind us. Anyone still thinking that i am calling for a boring facts-only news site should know that that is far from true. I just want us to act like the intelligent community that i believe we are.
publius

Well, I used the word suck just the other day here- but having read this thread I do agree that kind of thing lowers the tone of the place.

I have also probably not been on my best behaviour here and quite often lose patience with some of the more pushy christians and tend to take the mickey- I could maybe take a look at that.

One of the things I've found with ATS is because of the star and flag option we have people who actually ask others to star and flag their thread- I get embarrased for them and if I was thinking about star and flagging it I don't- whilst I appreciate their efforts I dont feel they should ask- people will either flag it or they won't- it makes me feel they are only putting the effort in to get the kudos.

But anyway to the OP, I will do my bit to try and keep ATS a great place for others to visit- I think it's a great site.

Originally posted by SiNDADDY
i understand the reason for the OP's post and i agree with a lot of what the post is saying, BUT, it is the agenda or manipulation that i am completely not down with.

"this website would suit ME better by MY beliefs on how it should be if eveyrbody acted this certain way that i wish them to act."

okay...



free speech rules.

we have people of every kind in the world and probably on this site.

if you want it your way...

go make a website and moderate it, instead of coming into what somebody else is working hard for and trying to say how it should "be" for it to be taken "seriously" (and in your opinion only)

i ask you, who do you think this website is trying to "impress" if you think it is scaring away so many dear people?

i could go on about many other things i foung wrong with this, quoting lines and so on, but i think:

make a website and moderate it

is the best answer for you.

rocknroll,

S

this is just not true. i don't see myself as anyone who "knows better" or want a site to suit me. I want a site that does not have people with elitist views that because we are "in the know" then we are better than those who are not. How is this anything resembling your statements about me? If it was made to MY liking, i would likely be the only person interested in it. I think you have misunderstood my intentions. I hold free speech dear to me. I am saying that this site's motto is "deny ignorance" so we should practice it or find somewhere else to flame, as one person said, that is why god made youtube. Maybe my feelings were lost in translation, i admit that i do have trouble getting ideas across fluently. (sp?) I only state that this is one of the biggest reasons that poeple shy away from ATS and flock to other sites. It's also one of the biggest reasons why, when i am talking with someone who is a "square" (just humor me and allow the term) and we are discussing say, water ice and clouds on mars, as soon as they hear i learned anything from ATS, they discredit me immeadiately because of the way we conduct ourselves here sometimes. Do i NEED THAT VALIDATION? NO! i want to get that out the way right now because i KNOW some of you will say something to that effect, but it does bother me that whatever good input i may have to help wake this person up and at least make them question some things goes right out the window as soon as they hear ATS.
My thread here is selfish only in that i want the world to be more aware of what is happening around them, and i want that for everybody. Those who are not yet on board still are equals to me, i am not better than them as a person. Yes, the term sheeple is quite accurate, but we should watch when and how we use it, because we might be inhibiting them to stay that way if we are not careful.
The site IS growing, and that does mean more opinions that are off the wall or what have you, that is inevitable. But we should be aware of our behavior even more so now that we have more ears to speak to.
i am not asking anyone to dumb themselves down, i only ask that we keep this intelligent rather. Why is that viewed as selfish? I feel that your response that i start my own site and make the rules is pretty silly. I just want us to practice what we preach.
DENY IGNORANCE
publius

Originally posted by djusdjus
Allow me to offer this old and oft cited poem amongst those "in the know"

The wise old owl
Sat in an oak.
The more he saw,
The less he spoke.
The less he spoke,
The more he heard.
Why can't we be like
That wise old bird?

This little poem has a whole lot of wisdom in it's 8 small lines. If we all would spend a little more time to try and listen where the other person is coming from the more we will be heard by them.

We are all searching for "truth" but WHAT IS TRUTH? What is truth to one person will be false to another. We all become ENLIGHTENED in our OWN time. And we must be merciful till that happens.

As well we should never be so "full of ourselves" that we are under the impression that we ourselves have nothing new to learn ourselves.

We all need to be considerate of each other when we make new threads and posts. Do unto others as you would like them do unto you!

Peace
Grandma

Originally posted by lifecitizen
Well, I used the word suck just the other day here- but having read this thread I do agree that kind of thing lowers the tone of the place.

I have also probably not been on my best behaviour here and quite often lose patience with some of the more pushy christians and tend to take the mickey- I could maybe take a look at that.

One of the things I've found with ATS is because of the star and flag option we have people who actually ask others to star and flag their thread- I get embarrased for them and if I was thinking about star and flagging it I don't- whilst I appreciate their efforts I dont feel they should ask- people will either flag it or they won't- it makes me feel they are only putting the effort in to get the kudos.

But anyway to the OP, I will do my bit to try and keep ATS a great place for others to visit- I think it's a great site.

thanks for contributing! I also just want to clarify that i could use a little work in this area also, i never said i was a perfect shining example, but we should all try. ALSO:
this is starting to get away from me. By my examples of headlines that may turn some people away, i gave the impression (it would seem) that i think some articles are worthless and should be left out for the "crazies". this is not so and i want to clear that up. this thread is not about the threads and how ridiculous they are vs. the ones that aren't. That can only come down to matters of opinion. No i only ask that we use the same manners and civility for discussing ALL KINDS. i say there is room here for just about any thread topic, but no room for telling someone

"you are stupid for believing in faeires. Second line"

or

"Everyone knows faeries exist you dumba**"

i don't want to have impact on the topics we use, that is what this site is good for, the differences and all. I only want us to stay intelligent whatever topic we discuss.
So please, write replies that say i am selfish and want to control the content here all you want, just understand that it's not true. I don't want to control the topics at all, i just want us all to remember that we DO have an audience, and you should not be expecting someone to give you any credibility when acting so childish. Does that make sense? I am trying so hard to get my feelings across here, but it's difficult to tell if I have done a good job with all these replies coming in saying that i should go somewhere else or start my own site. feedback is always welcome!

Partially I agree with the OP, because there are few conspiracies that are way beyond the capacity of an average citizen. But as you can see, they listened to us in H1N1 matter and we might saved lives.

As I discussed with few of my friends, whose are against conspiracy, but the present H1N1 situation is opened their eyes about our rightful place on this planet. As they said: the ordinary people are admiring us, because we dare to take up questions and search for answers. We dare to oppose what from they fear. In their eyes, we're their brave guardians. We're guarding the ordinary people from harm, from the greedy people whose don't care with their lives and we help them from the background.

Trust me. People are taking us seriously.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by Sharrow]

What I see and experience consistently here and elsewhere is a general lack of mutual respect and understanding for ourselves and for others. This planet, this race, will never be healed and united until these very basic principles are understood and acknowledged.

A wanting of respect will generate more wanting of respect. Spread it out, share it wide and far. Don't withdraw it when someone recoils or shows you a lack of it, that should be an even bigger inspiration to transcend that paradigm and be an even bigger being that you know you can be. Paradigms like that need to feed in order to function and exist.. time to change the equation.

Be In Peace.

It's telling that the first reply to your post was tagged for manners and decorum.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


i know right? I looked up his other posts, and it seems to be a hobby of his, posting silly things.
but, what can you do eh?
i'm really pleased for the most part, these replies have all been very well thought out, and presented in an intelligent way...i am lovin it.
thank you to everyone who is contributing.
publius

I agree that this site has gone down hill recently and is probably due to ATS becoming more popular and attracting all sorts of people. Ive found myself seriously having to bite my tongue with some people in here because they have come out with the most outlandish remarks and many simply do not do any research. There are however some excellent members who are very well informed and I would hate for them to stop coming here because they are the reason I visit this site every day. One thing that has crossed my mind is it wouldnt be difficult for the government to hire people to come on sites like this and start trolling but maybe thats just the conspiracy theorist in me.

reply to post by Enigma Publius

It's a shame your going to catch all sorts of flak for your thoughtful post. I'm no saint. I've posted things here that i thought for sure would get me in trouble. This is what happens though when you get some, not all, but some self righteous, humorless and judgmental people in one place. No one wants to back down or apologize. Some people see it as a form of weakness to do that. Good post. I'm going to try and improve my own manners. Have a great day.

reply to post by Enigma Publius
On page three you say "feed back is welcome". You did not welcome my feedback to you.

Instead you insulted me and called me an elitist.

I was not rude to you. I told you I appreciated your concern.

I am truly sorry you had a troubled youth and still are troubled according to your own words, not mine.

When did I say or imply I was better than most people? Please show me this.

FYI: I am not a guy. I am a 62 year old woman who was a successful business woman and was able to sell my business and retire in 2007.

I still maintain that it is not a members job to lecture other members. That's what we have moderators for. They do their job well.

If something upsets you in a post just press the alert button and you should get results.

In 3 years I've only used the alert once. I ran across a thread that had a fully nude picture of the poster in all his glory. Even though he had little to brag about I felt it was inappropriate for the site.

The thread was immediately removed thanks to the fast action of the mod hammer.

When I referred to my Dad as my Pappy I was trying to add humor. Well I sure didn't make you laugh.

Please feel free to U2U me as I have worked with youth for many years.

I want to be your friend. I just didn't like your lecture.

If I can be of any help to you please do contact me. I'm really a very nice old woman that doesn't like to argue. Just don't insult me or put me in a defensive position.

I agree ATS has even gone downhill in the short year I have been here. The responses are just so uneducated and nasty. But it is the internet, not much you can do when these folks decide they want to voice their ignorant opinions.

The truth is that the gullibility and irrationality of some people on this forum astonish me.

All you can do is state your opinions, views or facts. People will believe or not, you can't do much about it, but you can ignore them. Stop reading their posts.
I have never had my opinion changed through debate. I can perhaps see the other point of view more clearly. I think most people are the same. It's going to take more than words. My advice is don't feed the trolls.

Sure... I get ya, you're exactly right - I noticed it happening too.

You gotta wonder - what's the point of looking for truth? I always told any conspiracy-mates ... Don't look for the truth (it's all smoke 'n mirrors), look for the BS - it's always right in your face.