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Why would anyone take us seriously?

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posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:42 PM
I, for one, completely agree with the original poster 100%. I still remember the first time I came to this forum. I was investigating the John Titor "hoax" and I was determined to be the person to debunk the case and blow the lid off the whole thing. The thing that intrigued me about John Titor was that (to me) it was an obvious hoax but people really took the time to investigate it. Both the people that believed Titor was real and the people that believed he was a phony really took the time to gather up some information. They spent hours reading through the logs and gathering information from various sources. I was impressed.

I did a fair amount of research myself about Titor and held myself fairly well on most forums with my stance on the subject (that Titor was a hoax), often finding my research in other posts. Quite an accomplishment, seeing your research used as someone else's research. I considered my research to be a victory.

So, that's when I landed here. Contacted a moderator who suggested I share my information - Come to find out, the people on this forum were extremely well educated on the subject and quickly found errors in my research and provided me with information that so obviously contradicted everything that I found. There were a few name bashers and so forth, but moderators handled them quickly and the topics tended to be true debates.

It was nice. I really had to rethink my research and no one looked down on me for getting some facts wrong. They even directed me to the right place so that I could do some more research. They encouraged me instead of calling me illiterate or stupid or ignorant. Years later, I come back with a different identity (I forgot my old information) and I'm welcomed by what seems like people that spent too much time on the World of Warcraft forums or worse, people that came up with these whacky theories without truely thinking them through. These forums have always had people like that though, that's not the sad part. Those people were generally overwhelmed by the intelligence of the community that the topics simply died. The sad part is that these topics are blowing up the forums with much of the community either agreeing or if they don't agree, they simply call the poster an ignorant moron. Yeah, cause that will teach them.

I like the old days, when people actually posted intelligently. When people actually took the time to research their bogus claims and ATS really was a threat to the government because we knew what we were talking about and we were calling them out on it. When even replying to a post you had to be well presented to be taken seriously and the community actually enjoyed reading longer posts. We weren't like other forums. The majority of us were well presented and didn't have the lazy habits that other forums had. We considered ourselves serious researchers. Not just a place to see what the crazy peoples are thinking up next.

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:48 PM
reply to post by Lewis76

I more then ever. After observing a few different conspiracy forums and watching how others act....ATS has the largest potential of all of the forums I observed to be 'taken seriously'.

I would love to see posters act like they are a part of something here, not just acting out for their reasons of 'self'.

I think more and more people will seek the 'net' for info...and forums are gong to give them facts and beliefs. This is a great mix! What better to mix our facts and beliefs with showing people we are a group of civil and mature people (with a few rants now and then).

ATS has much more then other forums. All of the people that brought this potential to the surface...thumbs up! Im proud to be here. I have found myself coming back here after wondering around and I dont see myself finding a better place. With saying that...we can do even better!

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:52 PM

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Lewis76

I would love to see posters act like they are a part of something here, not just acting out for their reasons of 'self'.

I think more and more people will seek the 'net' for info...and forums are gong to give them facts and beliefs. This is a great mix! What better to mix our facts and beliefs with showing people we are a group of civil and mature people (with a few rants now and then).

The thing is that the forum used to be like that. If you looked back to 2005-2006, you would see a huge slump in intelligent posting.

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:02 PM
I think this post, the threads mentions and the responses show a lot about us as a society. There is a general bell curve in everything. I think one could be applied to this and all sites and information. I think this falls in the realm of reliable information, accurate information, truthful information or in some cases intelligent information and discussion. (There is a difference. Something can be reliably false and inaccurate, something can be accurately false, and something can be unreliable and have truth in it.) That is just the reality of life. It is the far extremes of the information that falls into the Bell Curve that I would find interesting. Some times you will find interesting cross sections between this, main stream media and all the info in between. It is up to those that want to find wisdom to find it and find the difference.

Any information passed second hand looses its reliability. So I do not know why I am surprised when I see a post that misses the point of what they are posting about. Or replies that did not review the link to the information posted. If this was not true then rumor would not be part of our vocabulary.

I think the real challenge is for those that believe that they are intelligent and want to continue to improve their enlightenment and intelligence, to rise above the chatter and ignore it. After all why should I get upset when a dog eats its own excrement. I should just expect it. So why should I be upset when people take low brow jabs, have lack of tolerances or pass misinformation? If it bothers me and I am intolerant of intolerance am I any better? I would think not.

My point is you may be right, you may be wrong, but the question in my mind is why should I be emotionally bothered by it. If you ask yourself those questions you might find more peace as I do not think the future postings will go in the direction you would prefer.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by TimeTo23]

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:06 PM
reply to post by Hyde70

That is what I keep hearing. Ironically, my brother (the OP) is the one that led me to this site about a year ago. He had told me it had changed, but was still a great site. And here I am, after joining and loving ATS...reading my brothers thoughts....that reflect what he felt even a year ago, about how it has changed somewhat. Im not sure if the change is just normal for a bigger population here or if people have taken advantage of having such a place to come to and discuss things.

Either way, its obvious that the long time users here are still feeling the slope of the change.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 01:47 AM

Originally posted by guidanceofthe third kind
For some reason people believe me but i do not tell most what i know because that burden is not what many people were born to be. It is what we were born to be...

I understand this so well. I have been in this position of wanting to tell...but have come to realize that it could traumatize other people; some of the things we know would be earth shattering to others. Not everyone could bear to know some of these things. Like you said, it is a burden, but one that we have chosen to pursue of our own volition because finding truth is a priority to us.

It reminds me of what Jesus said to his disciples that it was for them to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but it wasn't for everyone. It wasn't something that made them special or exclusive or was just that others were not capable of comprehending or couldn't deal with knowing. I think it comes under the saying that you are not given more than what you can bear.

We know what we know. People can only be awakened if they have an "aha!" moment and decide to pursue it. Otherwise, all we can do for them is through our actions and not words. It is not for us to change them nor give them info they are not capable of disseminating. If they ask, that's different. We can gently guide them by making them question. Everyone has to arrive at their own conclusions.

Other than that, all we can do for those who are asleep is treat them kindly and spare them the confusion and shattering that comes with this knowledge.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Alethea]

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 02:12 AM
A major problem is the cult-like belief that people who have a conspiratoral-view of reality are superiour while people who do not are stupid sheeple. This stance is applied throughout and is a big turn-off to any person new to the genre.

"The stupid sheeple are brainwashed by the msm if they dont believe the President is a child-eating repitlian".

So finding a middle-path or a path of being moderate and level-headed is required to attract more people to alternative ways of seeing things.

This thread (and some others) are good efforts in that direction.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 02:26 AM

Originally posted by Enigma Publius

But with a title like "religion must die" how exactly are you going to be able to help change that? Who are you trying to convince? Many religious folks will not read an article like that, and those are the folks we really need to reach and help realize that religious ideals and leaders of the people do not mix.

Well, I suppose that because so many titles here are like National Enquirer....."Lonely Aliens are Abducting our Pets...oops! There Goes Another Cow, Now!".....It perhaps influenced me that people want to see sensational titles. Abducted cows get more attention than weighter matters, sometimes.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
So i guess it depends on what you want out of an article. Do you really want to change a trend you see happening , to change it for the betterment of all people.....or do you want to cause a stir and get a lot of ATS points for responses?

I don't get a lot of points. As a matter of fact, I think most of my threads hit the dud pile. I think your discussion of titles has been beneficial for me.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
I admit that because this is written word and i cannot see your expressions, that i cannot tell if you are being sarcastic with me or not.

I am not being sarcastic. I recognize wise correction when I see it.

As a matter of fact, in my introduction, I admitted that I am not good with titles and asked for suggestions on how to choose titles that would get readership. So I am finally getting an answer here that I need to consider how to word it best to appeal to those who need to read it. Not sensationalism, but ...something else.

These boards are like a classroom sometimes. We help each other to learn and to grow. We are all at different levels. I think we should bear that in mind because our criticisms must be constructive and explanatory in order to help each other raise their standards and intellect. I think your thread expresses constructive criticism very well. So I am glad you brought up this subject.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 02:46 AM
count me as one more vote for the counter-flag system.

nothing on this site bothers me more than seeing nothing but ridiculous fringe-conspiracy or bitter-partisan crap in the 'Top Threads' list, or whatever it's called, particularly on the front page.

when "why are Democrats so full of hate?" occupied that spot for three days in a row, i created a thread a lot like the OP's, only considerably more pissed off; it was removed within sixty seconds, and the offending thread remained contently in its spot on the front page.

this is not the image ATS should project. this is not the image ATS should want to project.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by The Parallelogram]

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 10:40 AM
reply to post by Enigma Publius

Oh Jesus Lord help me.

Now you think I could get a job being a dis info agent for the government.

You just had to get a little dig in at me didn't you.

Well, I've just had it with you and am making you my friend.

You are the second person that has referred to their childhood as a , "Leave It To Beaver " type of life. I was the first to hear it from myself.

I vowed not to raise my children the same way. My parents were near perfect but I'm not sure that is the way to raise a child. I was had more than my share of self made problems also after I became an adult.

I will admit that I totally agree with you concerning civility being necessary on this site.

You have the honor of being the first member that I have argued with so profusely. It's not my nature to argue although I did very much enjoy debating in high school and college. I seemed to have mellowed over the years.

In the old days when the old Tandy from Radio Shack was popular I was on messenger boards that had no moderators. Back then I was a bit hot headed and went right along with the rest of the heathens.

But that soon got old. I prefer the civilized way of conversation and debate.n

You have lit a spark in this old woman and I will probably find somebody on the site to debate.

My new friend, if I can help you just send a U2U.

My delete button is not responding today for some reason, crumbs probably, and there are mistakes in this post. I tried to correct but with no success.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 10:45 AM
I dont see what the big deal is. People who insult others are jerks. They are part of life and they are part of ATS. Ignore them and problem is solved.

If you care about their little insults you are giving them power to control you. Are their opinion really worth anything to you? Its not to me.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Copernicus]

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 11:44 AM
reply to post by dizziedame

LOL...this tickles me. Dizziedame...the OP is my brother...and boy he can sure light my fire and push my buttons sometimes. We have had some killer debates, I swear people would see it as great entertainment because I believe we both bring such good points to the table, its neat to see how such things play out.

He is a great guy....but he has a way with words, especially when he meets another who has a way with words.

You both going back and forth has tickled me, hope that doesnt offend either of you. Gave me a smile this morning.

My best to you

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:12 PM
The war your talking about can't be won, the deceptive will always blind the masses and the observant will always be labeled. ATS has just gone through the cycle like everything else.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 03:41 PM
reply to post by Alethea

it's humbling to see someone with your kind of disposition here. All i have to say is thank you for being real, and much respect is due.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 03:45 PM
reply to post by dizziedame

i smiled very big when i read your last reply. Genuine good humor, not anything sinister or sneaky.
you have a nice style, and i do think we could be pals.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 04:18 PM
I came on here today considering the same basic thread.

I am floored by the fact that as a news hound, an information junky, I am having to spend less and less time on ATS to get the full extent of what my senses are prompting me to look for online!

I am shocked, I have not read this thread other than the Op but for me it is not about the kiss fanny attitude of so many nor the blatent disinformation being touted out in masse by so many here on the forum these days.

Some of my favorite people have left for good and only come on occassionally to check it out, but no longer take this site seriously.

It is becoming almost embarrasing to start threads, they just die, not just mine many other people who really do have something to add.

I dont know what is going on behind the scenes but even the mods and the older respected members dont start threads or even post very much anymore, thats a shame. Instead the have to spend all day policing the forums, thats a drag. It ends up creating a rift between us and them.

And where is the third Amigo? Is Simon even part of ATS anymore? In over 3 years time I have never even spoken with him once that I know of. Does he go under some other name and perhaps someone I have gotten into it with? I dont know but its weird.

Just because the owners are just that the owners this is still their site and they need to interact more with members instead of just jumping in on the threads they have to act like the playground police over.

I am not saying that they dont from time to time, but come on it is apparent that for the average member here, we are nothing to the big guys, not worth their time anymore.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Skyfloating
A major problem is the cult-like belief that people who have a conspiratoral-view of reality are superiour while people who do not are stupid sheeple. This stance is applied throughout and is a big turn-off to any person new to the genre.

"The stupid sheeple are brainwashed by the msm if they dont believe the President is a child-eating repitlian".

So finding a middle-path or a path of being moderate and level-headed is required to attract more people to alternative ways of seeing things.

This thread (and some others) are good efforts in that direction.

Those are the kind of people taking our forum for a ride recently. I have never met a conspiracy theorist who thinks that way sky, it is more about the cover ups like JFK and 911, UFOs and the like.

I wonder at times if there are purposeful plants who come on to post the types of threads you mention. I have even sat back and watched entire groups of these types and felt like oh boy this is taking conspiracy back to the stone age.

But because of the T@Cs they are allowed for the most part. I have tried to open conversation about UFO/ Alien discussions but was shredded in the beginning only to be contacted privately by others who did not dare come in the thread, but wanted to talk about how it related to them and some who even helped me to put things in perspective.

Conspiracy is not a bunch of psychotic schizophrenics jumping at shadows, at least not the real ones I have met. But they do get set up to look like it if it is allowed.

Back to this topic I would challenge you to join under a fake avatar and try to see from the prospective of a new person. See how long it would take you to become a mod, get tons of respect from fellow members.

You would be a perfect one for this challenge as your threads are about the best spiritual threads on the site. Try and befriend people without using anything personal you already know about them which might aid you in gaining alliances.

There is a good chance that you could get shredded too with some of your work. See how long it takes to be considered for position as a mod. I personally couldnt do it, would not be asked either I am sure, but there are many here that would love to become one and deserve it too that have been over looked.

To be taken seriously, you have to be serious about the members who make this site what it is. That is the biggest change I have seen in my time here.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 07:09 PM
reply to post by Enigma Publius

The idea is to learn from web sites such as ATS and "Wake Up" our self. After we "Wake Up" we need to "Look Up" at what is going on around us. I have pictured it in my mind as a path;

In one direction goes the pursuit of knowledge with countless intersections and decisions with no discernible way of separating what is true and false. In this direction the good news is we are making excellent time but the bad news is we are going in the wrong direction.

In the other direction is a very clean and simple path. Straight and true it leads to one thing only, Understanding of Truth. Personally I think it is very difficult to turn around and follow this path in the correct direction because this means turning our back on everything we "Know".

I believe that many people here have "woke up" and "looked up" and were even brave enough to turn around and look in the other direction. The contrast can almost drive a person insane yet many have done this and also kept their sanity, for the most part.

"You can not drive a car looking only through your rear view mirror". This is something that comes to mind as I think about trying to help others to "wake up", "look up" or even turn around. I have done this myself and will probably do it again. Remember, do not throw away your own achievements by spending too much effort attempting to help others.

There is a very large degree of rhetoric, ignorance and distraction pertaining to a given point that I simply ignore. It's the way I read, skipping over the parts that are BS.

For example, I watched Bill Maher's Religulous and have many things to say about that little documentary and the responses it received. However, a title that reads, "Religion must die!" does not sound at all like a discussion on Bill Maher's film and is also a title that I would not be interested in clicking on. It provokes the same feeling in me when I read a comment like:

"i can't believe you are so stupid.
second line."
"This thread is idiotic!"

There is no room for response or resolve here so why even make such a comment in the first place. I see this as a reflection of how this person sees them self.

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 09:59 PM
reply to post by JonInMichigan

That's strange, I searched for your name "JonInMichigan" and "senator" in ATS Search and didn't see anything come up that included a picture of you and a senator. Where is that post you were talking about?

posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 10:33 PM
I want to thank everyone that contributed to this thread! I'm very pleased with the outcome. I also want to plug another thread that just showed up here on ATS that deals with respect:

It's very encouraging to me. I think that lack of respect IS infectious, and by that reasoning, a show of respect should be as well! That means that if we begin to show respect more, the ones we are showing it to may become more aware of their own actions, and it could start a snowball effect. I know this sounds idealistic, and maybe it is a little, but I NOTICE when someone is respectful towards me, and I'm assuming that other people do as well! This is good news to me.

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