Why would anyone take us seriously?

us? maybe you ... I am not crazy ...

All I got to say its not every member here on ATS that acts like that.

This being said it is also a right to say what you believe in a civilized way. So saying its a little far fetched or it doesnt make sense is fine but I agree with the name calling. It shouldnt be tolerated. But pointing out fact I think is fine.

I dont think everyone here is nasty and rude... some are do ... and its everyones right anyways to say what they feel and think but in a civilized way I insist on that ....

oh god

what happened, did you just discover that there are stupid people in the world and some of them own computers with internet connections?


of there's stupidity here. there a great deal of bandwagon posters who hop on the next conspiracy as it rolls through.


Luckily, I've read posts and threads from very respectable people on here as well. People who did their damn homework about a topic and honestly make me feel stupid for not being so damn brilliant. True voices of reason in a chorus of insanity.

Those people keep me coming back.


The BS-ers simply get cut down by facts. doesn't mean they won't keep comin!

One day I became frustrated with the "popular posts"(most flagged recently), and the recent posts on ATS. There was nothing I considered worthy, and so I searched and visited other conspiracy websites. I encountered such poor site layout, bad conduct, foolish articles and appalling language, that I found myself back on ATS again in 10 minutes.

Being the best at (or having the best of) something though should not be used as a reason for lack of self improvement. You raise some good points Enigma, and think we should all improve ourselves through honest self-analysis, reflection and change/action. We should all speak with love and honesty, tempered with consideration, even when we do not receive it.... and EVEN when it is not reciprocated.

Ink.

So you’re looking for passionate argument without vulgarity; I’m all for that.

Surely it’s not an impossible feat but I don’t understand how it relates to avoiding Internet sources to prove/disprove an argument (and please stop calling me Shirley).

If a person is going to get their point across, I’d rather have a reference.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


Why wouldn't anybody take us seriously? Have you been paying attention lately to the hyperbole and ridiculous statements made by some members of congress and political pundits these days? Death panels, Obama is Hitler, Obama is a Kenyan muslim, Obama will pull a Reichstag fire incident and turn the USA into a totalitarian state. All this is said in the media on a daily basis and is no different or perhaps worse than what is claimed on this site.

Conspiracy theories promulgated by right-wing sources are really big right now and take center stage in American media.

So claiming the outrageous statements made here would put people off isn't as likely as you might think, IMO. There is a certain section of the public who will pay attention no matter what is said.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
We do not carry ourselves in a manner conducive to helping anyone come around to our line of thought. (that being that we are not told thhe truth--the whole truth, and there are many things that should be questioned)

I remember when name calling and cursing were not allowd on ATS. When someone would get into trouble for substituting one different letter in a curse word so that it would pass the filters. Remember when calling people names just because they they are still ignorant to the idea that we are routinely lied to? I do. I remember when this site stood for truth and denying ignorance. I miss that. Why on earth would anyone listen to what we are saying here when it is not uncommon to see things like:

"i can't belive you are so stupid.
second line"

or

"people who still think that way deserve to die"

and so on and so on. Imagine you are curious and starting to question MSM, so you look into seriously investigating the claims made on TV and look some things up for yourself. You hear about this website forum that is sopposed to be a serious forum where these things can be discussed intelligently. And you look at the headlines here and they read something similar to this:

"Religion must die!"
"Bush a reptillian? Here's proof!"
"It's time to revolt America"
"Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses"

those are just a few examples of real headlines and articles on here. Now look, can you imagine your uptight relative or friend who is a smart person but otherwise naive to the amount of deception they receive daily, can you imagine that person seeing this kind of garbage and actually taking us seriously? Can anyone tell me one way that this kind of conduct helps our cause? Now, who can tell me ways it HURTS our cause? Who can tell me a few ways that we are HELPING the secrecy agenda with this behavior? If we don't take ourselves seriously, then those who have not yet been woke up will not either. We look like a bunch of unstable potty mouths.

I swear a lot. I am extremely vulgar when i am around my friends. But i do not bring that here, because even though it should not, it does give the impression that one is shallow and uncouth, and dare i say it STUPID. How serious would we take someone in power if when asked about a new bill he simply said, "It sucks, anyone who would vote on this bill deserves whateer they get, i mean, it's so dumb."

That is what some of you sound like. We need to stop this trend. Part of denying ignorance is helping other people take the wool from over their eyes. We seem to have given up on that. Now it seems that we just like to call them names "sheeple" and such more than we want to help them. We are that snobby kid who thinks he is better than everyone else.

Also, not everyone reads conspiracy sites and alternative news, or even deep research into well known areas, such as the existance of water on the moon. I use this as an example because it is recent and i saw a lot of the conduct i talked about there.

no, it was not a secret that water existed on the moon in small amounts.

no, NASA was not "hiding" it's existance.
BUT

no, it was not COMMON KNOWLEDGE, quit saying things like "it's been well known"
9 out of 10 people had no idea that the moon had any water. AT LEAST 9 out of 10. This is not a scientific poll, i just read the many articles that poped up on the internet. ALMOST every article contained a headline like "Confirmed:there is water on the moon" or "Moon not as dry as we have always thought"
these headlines were on MAJOR sites, so if this was big news to these "learned" individuals, then that can accurately be compared to the general public and our awareness of the presence of water on the moon. I Saw zero articles that said this:
"BIG WHOOP: India tells us what everyone already knew"

so please please stop acting like this is no big deal, you and I may have read some of those articles in the years past that hinted at water, but we are a very small portion folks, NOT EVERYONE RESEARCHES THIS STUFF BELIEVE IT OR NOT
The presence of water on the moon (however small) radically changed the way 95% of people thought of our solar system overnight! Almost everyone believed the moon to be completely bone dry, and India of all places, a poor country with an infant space program, changed this view. My question is this: Why didn't NASA make this as big a deal as India when they discovered this years ago? It certainly is good news for India's space program, the media attention they have gained, i bet they will not have any problems increasing their budget next year, so why did NASA treat this as a non-issue? Why was it NEWS to 9 out of 10 folks? Wouldn't they want the attention and the increse in funds for such a discovery?
who knows? This thread isn't about solving this issue, it's simply meant to show just how snobby we have become here. I personally know 3 people who discoved ATS BECAUSE of this discovery of water on the moon by India. These folks thought that NASA had not been forthcoming in this at all, and they wanted to find out what else NASA might have "played with" (not hidden, or lied, but changed in a way that hides it in plain view) and it lead them to ATS. Imagine their disappointment when they look into the main article to see most of you here telling other readers that you knew this for years, it was old new, no big deal, quit being so excited. One of these friends outright told me that he believed some of you must work for NASA or some other agency who wants to make this a non-issue.
Now i don't know about all of that, but it was very dissapointing to see our reaction here:
"move along folks nothing to see here, but look at this mars cricket, now there's something to be amazed at!"
POint is: BABY STEPS.
becoming awakened is a slow and delicate process that must be done in baby steps. All of the conduct and examples i have provided here would hinder anyone trying to make those first steps.
I'll get off my soap box now, this has just been bothering me REALLY BAD lately.
publius

OP....by you not using proper grammar and capitalization certainly proves your title of the thread. Congratulations on a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by PenandSword]

I know as a rule I do not take this place seriously...I consider it entertainment...with threads that range from the out to lunch to the just plain ignorant...it takes and effort to sift through the nonsense to find something worth while.

There are gems here but getting to them is a task.

It would take the management to simply put an end of the most idiotic and hateful threads to make this into a serious site.

I mean hollow earth and aliens ate my baby. Really now.

Sometimes I think WND is like a bar.
And ATS is like a Denny's.
And when the bar closes, the patrons crowd in here, lol.

So I think the OP has a point to an extent.
Not 100% spot on... but in the ballpark.

so what do you guys plan on doing about this? what do admins plan on doing about this mess? how do we know certain admins aren't disinfo agents themselves? why is there special treatment for only certain threads than all? ive seen threads get removed that have vital & crucial information regarding whatever topic get shredded into places where nobody would ever read them.

why is it whenever somebody barely ellaborates on good vital information that 'freemasons' or 'democrats' or a certain select group has to gang up on the person who started up a good topic? wasn't this site about exchanging information? will we ever win this uphill battle? do people ever see that TBTB will go to any extremes as to switching parties just to keep snowing us our parents and our children into believing were winning this war against a horrible machine which is bleeding to death known as america?????

how much more people have to die before we completely lose our country to some small group of wealthy bankers or branches of governments, before another foreign nation gets blamed for something they had no part of?

when the he'll are we going to be recognized as the people who once took back what was theirs? when are we going to be that group who asks questions? who ask why there's an all seeing eye here. who asks why there's wierd symbols on our currency. who asks why all secrets must be kept secret in a 'free and accepted' lodge. who asks why there is a square and compass with a 'g' in the center or entrance to every major or small city?

when the hell will people bring their head out of their 'blanket of S###' that these wonderful people in the white house have provided them with?

Originally posted by D.E.M.

I mean, we have the star and flag options, and that is a lovely way to drive attention to something, but lets be honest here: most of the stuff that gets to the front page is pure and utter tripe. It gets there because it is sufficiently ludicrous that for some reason it attracts the crazy members like a moths to a fire and they star and flag the hell out of it.

I would very much like to see something along the lines of an "Anti-flag" option to counteract the flags, so that things like "Born into the bloodlines and went rogue" don't stay on the front page for days. Just something so the users can counter the attention such threads get and re-direct it to more important topics.

You know, that is such a great idea, just like the flags +, there should be Flags -, aswell as positive stars and negative stars.

one thing that i don't really understand is people getting really easily upset when when using something that could be considered inflamatory.

thats when politically correct seems to cause more damage than it does help, because really sensitive people seem to take it to the heart.

aside from that people that only make small sentences writting, "you are stupid", it really backfires to them IMO, because not only they have nothing constructive to say but their vocabulary is really limited and makes them look stupid.

here are some of the definitions of stupid:

- Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
- Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
- Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
- Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
- Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

so when did stupid really become such a foul word? anyway enough about stupid.

what makes me more mad than what the OP is talking about is not people being foul but people not reading the OPs and comenthing on just a title of a thread.

also this thread reminds me of:

" sticks and stones make break my bones but 'words' will hurt forever"

- [ScrubS]

I still respect you POV OP, just giving my opinion.

I swear a lot. I am extremely vulgar when i am around my friends. But i do not bring that here, because even though it should not, it does give the impression that one is shallow and uncouth, and dare i say it STUPID. How serious would we take someone in power if when asked about a new bill he simply said, "It sucks, anyone who would vote on this bill deserves whateer they get, i mean, it's so dumb."

That is what some of you sound like. We need to stop this trend. Part of denying ignorance is helping other people take the wool from over their eyes. We seem to have given up on that. Now it seems that we just like to call them names "sheeple" and such more than we want to help them. We are that snobby kid who thinks he is better than everyone else.

I also love that sneak attack, that calls everyone else STUPID in a thread he complains of using derrogatory names to other members of ATS.




[edit on 14-10-2009 by Arsenis]

reply to post by dizziedame


i think this is a case where written word makes it hard to discern emotion. Because actually you did make me smile (and not in a smart aleck way) when i read your post. I am a troubled person, but not in any extreme way, i just have some authority issues and personal issues that i don't mind admitting to. But i had the perfect childhood. My household was like the Leave it to Beaver Show, my folks wouldn't give me any complexes so i had to make my own!
But i think this is just a case where we have misunderstood one another. Your feedback IS welcome, even if it is not agreed upon, okay? I never wish to make anyone feel that their opinion is less valid than mine. I thought i was just disagreeing with you in a cival manner, any idea you have that i don't welcome you to my post is unintended i promise!
I do have a hard time understanding why you think I am lecturing you. You see, this is a general post refering to those people who just act childish and silly in their posts with no real substance, i don't know how i could have made that any more clear, i've said it at least 20 times. If you are not one of those folks who type those absurd things (i should not have to give yet another example, something about beating a dead horse in there somewhere) then i was not lecturing you. That's pretty straight-forward is it not?
Now if you truly believe that "the masses are asses" then i think you are awfully close to having an elitist point of view. This phrase implies that you give most of your fellow neighbors up to a lost cause.
I know that will never wake up everyone, i am really glad that you forgive me for trying, and it means a lot to me that i have your approval. I know it is a moderators job, but i also remember a time when ATS mods' jobs weren't so hard because like any intelligent group of people, we were usually able to police ourselves as well.
Do you really know just how patronizing your post was? It took me a few minutes to decide if you were being serious or not! I could sum it up fairly like this:

i appreciate what your doing there with your little idea. It's great it really is, maybe you could get a job someday telling people your little ideas, i honestly believe that! but we really don't need them here, thank you. We have these folks called Mods who do that kind of thing. And it's cute how you want to help people and all, but my daddy taught me that some folks just can't be helped. As Ron White says: "you cant fix stupid!"
and your dream of having a board devoid of any imagination is unfortunately not possible, these savages just can't be reasoned with you know. You really should be more tolerant, or find somewhere else to go that is. I respect you and all, it's just that i feel uncomfortable with the idea of bringing civil action to these beasts, so i would appreciate it if you just stopped whatever it is that you are trying to accomplish.
but i don't mean that in a bad way. Bye!

if you don't think that's a fair assessment of your reply then that's okay, but i stand firm that we can be a cival website, no matter how much you don't believe it. I like how i made a post about our manners and how we should take a lighter tone sometimes, and you say you don't like my tone! LOL
You may not understand this, but i did not make the post for selfish reasons, i made it because i truly think we sould be more cival with one another. And so far, you are the only person who completely missed the point.

maybe you should go back and read your post again, and you may realize just how tolerant i am. Virtually everything you say is so patronizing i just keep thinking you are pulling my leg. You use that patronizing tone to tell me about my tone, and you talk to me like i am a child while claiming that i was talking to you like a child, it's all pretty absurd. But lookie here, at least we have stated reasons for how we feel, so i consider this a success.
How would you have liked it if i had simply replied with this:
"You are a nut. 2nd line."
My whole idea was to let folks know how detrimental that was to our cause, and a few people have actually admitted that they needed to work on that more and even more folks awknowledged that it IS a growing problem.
But hey, i appreciate what you are trying to do, rerally. I even think you could get a job someday working for the government as a disinfo agent, honestly.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by Enigma Publius]

You have a very valid point, but will it do any good, change anything?
Nope.

It's just the way things are, the Mods can only do so much, and you'll always have people who crave feeling superior and above on the internet by using trivial means.

ATS has really never been taken seriously by the majority, you'll often find jabs, kicks, and puns targeted towards ATS all over the internet.
It's a joke to a lot of people, for many reasons.

Sometimes we just need to be happy with our own personal selves and not care so much on proving ourselves/the truth to the masses, that's when people start to lose focus, perspective, and themselves.

Originally posted by xizd1
All you can do is state your opinions, views or facts. People will believe or not, you can't do much about it, but you can ignore them. Stop reading their posts.
I have never had my opinion changed through debate. I can perhaps see the other point of view more clearly. I think most people are the same. It's going to take more than words. My advice is don't feed the trolls.

i agree with most of that, and this is a misconception of my thread here. I'm not saying anything like "we shouldn't have those opinions here"
i am also not claiming that you can change a lot of minds in a post, although sometimes you can change a few. What i want to stress is that if someone believe we are a little ignorant here, or crazy or whatever, why should we satisfy them by giving fodder to their cannons? All i want is for us to carry ourselves in a respectful manner. That means leaving swear words out of serious debates, that means having actual substance to whatever you are saying, and it means not resorting to name calling.
Heed your own advice, don't feed the misconceptions that people have about conspiracy theorists OR skeptics.

Good on you Enigma Publius!

I am a long-time member of the ATS forums, and one of my biggest gripes with the forum has been the snobbery of some of the people that frequent this forum.
I have also noticed for years that the 'popular' threads that get hundreds of replies, tend to fall into one of two categories:
1. Complete and utter TRIPE: Some kid who has obviously taken one too many '___' tabs, finds out about (insert random conspiracy here) then forgets to take his ADHD meds and proceeds to bait everyone who responds to his thread with comments like "You didn't know? OMG what a retard!" or belittling anyone who has an opposing viewpoint, to get his attention-seeking followers to respond in kind.
2. Absolute genius: A thread that will bring new information to light, or expose existing knowledge in a new manner, or one that will open for discussion something that we've been taking for granted. Unfortunately, these threads quickly get filled up with smart-alecs and elitists, who proceed to battle it out and stroke their egoes, leaving very little room for actual discussion of the matter at hand.

The members of ATS are like a herd of lemmings: One of their 'respected' members will latch on to a topic, and all the other lemmings will follow him off of the cliff.


P.S. This is why my favourite forum on ATS is the 'Survival' forum: very little room for debate in there, and plenty of room for discussion of ideas.

[edit on 14/10/2009 by nrky]

Originally posted by NIGHTRID3R

All I got to say its not every member here on ATS that acts like that.

This being said it is also a right to say what you believe in a civilized way. So saying its a little far fetched or it doesnt make sense is fine but I agree with the name calling. It shouldnt be tolerated. But pointing out fact I think is fine.

I dont think everyone here is nasty and rude... some are do ... and its everyones right anyways to say what they feel and think but in a civilized way I insist on that ....

exactly, i never said that everybody was acting like that, or even most. Fact is it is still a relatively small amount of people acting foolish in the debates when compared to other sites, i just believe we will have to cooperate with one another (belivers and skeptics alike) to keep it that way. I never said that anyone did not have a right to an opinion, i only said that it is a growing trend here that we don't have to back up any claim or debunk with any substance other than using phrases and manners that make us all look foolish. Every time someone posts something like
"anyone who believes the 9/11 official story is a sheep that deserves whatever they get"
it makes all of us look bad because we associate here. These folks are not the majority, i just haven't seen anyone speak out on it and bring attention to it, and being that i see us as a community, i felt someone should say something.

Originally posted by Inkrinhuminge
One day I became frustrated with the "popular posts"(most flagged recently), and the recent posts on ATS. There was nothing I considered worthy, and so I searched and visited other conspiracy websites. I encountered such poor site layout, bad conduct, foolish articles and appalling language, that I found myself back on ATS again in 10 minutes.

Being the best at (or having the best of) something though should not be used as a reason for lack of self improvement. You raise some good points Enigma, and think we should all improve ourselves through honest self-analysis, reflection and change/action. We should all speak with love and honesty, tempered with consideration, even when we do not receive it.... and EVEN when it is not reciprocated.

Ink.

that was so well spoken. thank you so much for putting my exact feelings into words that i just couldn't find. I have wrote pages and you have summed it up in a paragraph. star for you and thank you so much!

reply to post by PenandSword


that's exactly the kind of dismissal i was talking about. I made many good point (IMO of course) but you cannot get past the fact that i am no good at grammar. Does that make sense to anyone? Does it make sense to you? I do not know the correct ways to use a lot of grammar, okay? Does that mean i am incapeable of having a thought as valid as yours? Do i have to take a spelling test to want to find truth? This is EXACTLY what turns a lot of people off about this kind of site. You took a thoughtful message that was meant to help further a good cause, and dismissed it because i don't use correct grammar. I don't know how to okay? Is that what you want to hear? Do you feel smart now?
I want everybody to look at this absurdity and see it for what it is, because it's easier to show you an example than to tell you. PenandSword has just shown how to belittle someone and make their point invalid, no matter the substance. i'm just surprised Pen used 2 lines to do it instaed of one. Well, with a little practice, you'll get the hang of it, and you will be belittling people with only one line eventually. great job.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by Enigma Publius]

I get ridiculed by everyone i know that know i come here. The first "bomb" they drop on me is usually the Reptilian one. Although it is becoming easier to enlighten people to the new world orders agenda. the nwo seem to be doing a great job of that themselves these days.

In the usual fashion, the first one or two responses was negative. Has anyone noticed this wonderful phenomena? Western science is corrupt because an alternate viewpoint can get you flamed into nothingness. Here we are ready to shoot someone down (once again) who's making a valid point. Once you set up a hierarchy, and give people status, this is what happens. Even if they are armchair types.

We can't kill all the fluff that makes its way to the front page. We can't prevent people with a thirst for knowledge, posting something we deem older than the interwebs. We surely shouldn't dissuade people from doing the same thing we did before them. Being negative towards these people is exactly that. So who is in the wrong? We all should think before we respond, and make this a team effort, instead of the belittling process it has become for many.