Why would anyone take us seriously?

Originally posted by dizziedame
As a member of ATS I do appreciate your concern for the site.

But I do not appreciate your tone. Nor do I appreciate a lecture from you.

That is a moderators job and not yours.

I do forgive you for writing to us as if we were 11 years old. I honestly think you would be a good candidate for a youth worker
or school teacher. You deliver your feelings well.

My old pappy told me something I'll never forget. He said, "The masses are asses". And I have found that to be true.

I understand the need for civility but I also know that in the stew of life a bit of spice keeps it more palatable.

As hard as we try we will not wake up everyone. We will never have a board that is completely civilized 100% of the time.

Never will we be free of members with vivid imaginations.

Variety is the spice of life. You will learn to like it or you will one day not come back here.

I hope you can learn to be more tolerant of us.

This would be a very boring site if it was a "just the facts and nothing else" type of board.

Again, I appreciate your concern.

my tone? okay i will be good and stay away from that one.
I am talking to you like an 11 year old though? Really? I am not lecturing you, however, i need you to understand that. I don't know why you feel that way but let me clarify: I made this thread because i am CONCERNED, genuinely worried about the state of our site. I love ATS, i think ATS can do a lot of good for a lot of people. I don't want a board that is "only facts" and no variety as you say. I love the huge difference of stories and ideas and thoughts that are presented here. I clearly said that people who use "only facts" as a way to twist the importance of something is one of the problems. also, i am not trying to do a moderators job. I am doing my job, as a sincere person who is concerned for my fellow human beings, to ensure that people can find their own version of the "truth" without being turned off by childish comments lts and name calling. If you only knew me in real life, you would know how absurd the idea of me lecturing people and talking to troubled youths is.
I practically AM a troubled youth! Not so youthful as i was 10 years ago, but just as troubled. I use swear words that don't even exist yet, i got maor authority issues, ect. But i want our board taken seriously, so i leave a little bit of that behind when i want to talk about something important. This is not a myspace blog, it is a forum to discuss important things, all i want is for people to act like they take themselves seriously, and others may do the same. I don't want a board free of vivid imaginations as you put it. for that matter, i don't think anyone else got that impression. Your defensive reaction to this makes me wonder if you are in fact not far from 11 years old. I am not being mean, it's just that your "tone" seems to hint that you are used to being talked to that way and are very defensive of it, perhaps because it was not all that many years ago. Perhaps not. Either way, even if your pappy was right (which i will say, it is not completely untrue) that doesn't mean we give up all hope of bringing the masses up to speed. The idea that you are better than "most people" is elitist, is it not?
i thought we were against such pre-conceived notions here????

reply to post by LeoVirgo

yea, i have seen other sites that allow it to a much higher degree, i guess i just expect more from ATS because we used to monitor OURSELVES here, someone would be told to stop being childish before a mod stepped in usually. I am pretty pleased with the responses overall, even those who disagreed or took offense didn't just say "you are wrong, second line"
i hate that. i can just imagine some of the more "square" people checking this site out and seeing the way these "enlightened" folk carry themselves. It's fodder for their cannons.
all i want is for people to see that they are acting exactly as the "other" people would expect them to act. That guy saying i was a candidate for youth councilor, is that a riot or what? I almost spit tea onto my scmputer screen.....If only he knew.....

Good topic imo.

There are some very valid arguments (even ones I dont care for), such as religion (biggest conspiracy in the book imo), *some* political subjects, and such.

Diplomacy in the threads I would think is a must, as momma always says, if you aint got nothin nice to say, dont say anything.

But, the subject of the thread itself more often than not is fair game...in order to map out conspiracys, touchy subjects should be blown open and examined.
Things I find are not worthy of the ATS philosophies are simple...political threads that simply say your party sucks or my party is the only good party, etc...but, exposing corruption (especially overlooked) with hard facts is a good exercise.

As far as people making sweeping judgements on the merit of a thread (do fairys exist for example) shows a lack of understanding of the nature of this site. if someone then resorts to attacking the OPS for even asking the question, then in my opinion, they deserve a warning. Now, someone may say "the belief in fairies, in my opinion, is a mental disorder and here is why..."and that is fine...but what isnt fine is "you believe in fairys? your retarded!".

Anyhow, ATS, from what I understand of it anyhow, is about examining subjects deeper than what the MSM digs up on it. its a news for subjects that news fails to see or wont see mixed with research that most mainstream researchers and scientists ignore or hide..if a person simply wants to flame other people...well, thats why God invented youtube

Its just part of the deterioration of humanity as blatant lies and deception are literally (NOW) being forced on everyone. Truth is given to set individuals free not to find fault. The only question to ask is (who will hear and understand the truth?) and how will they perceive the truth on this very toxic planet? Coming soon to your neighborhood "do as we say or kiss you a** good by". Please excuse the a** but it does nicely fit the on going theme as we watch in horror.

Yes, there are inaccurate claims made here when things get heated.

However, when I respond with, "You Suck," coming from me, it's an accurate analysis and statement of fact.

Therefore, I just don't know how to get around the accurate and descriptive-terminology identification of puke-generated idiots who would commence to blow things out their nether region and try to put that in words.

Thank goodness for the Mods.

They're the bomb!

You know, I for one agree with the OP on many points.

There are a lot of people in this site that are not necessarily ignorant people but often respond in an ignorant manner. Many people seem to do it for kicks! Is that what this site is all about? Flaming people for kicks?

I saw a comment in here that said that we cannot seriously debunk a claim or we will be labeled a hoaxer and kicked from the site. First of all . 2nd of all no that's not true, I've debunked successfully and I know others have as well.

I've seen all sorts of things on this site that don't belong here. I've seen people flamed for using the "G" word and for no other reason. I've seen people with good ideas flamed, trolled, and derailed before they even had a chance to defend themselves. I've seen many many posts where the OP is obviously misinformed or didn't research properly and ends up writing a post with no matter whatsoever. These people also don't deserved to be flamed, merely corrected.

Then there's the crackpot posts..... I just avoid them really. Lot of it seems to be people telling stories with no evidence and expect people to take it as fact, but to correct the OP that's what we have skunk works for.

Plus we have awesome mods to take care of a lot of this stuff...

[edit on 14-10-2009 by DaMod]

My Sponsor in Alcoholics Anonymous once said:

"95% of what you hear in a one hour AA meeting is complete garbage, but 5% of it is has more value than price of gold"

You have to look at ATS the same way... 95% of the posts here are complete crap, but 5% is priceless information.


After searching through all the garbage here on ATS, you can find some threads that are gold.

Allow me to offer this old and oft cited poem amongst those "in the know"

The wise old owl
Sat in an oak.
The more he saw,
The less he spoke.
The less he spoke,
The more he heard.
Why can't we be like
That wise old bird?

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
Why on earth would anyone listen to what we are saying here when it is not uncommon to see things like:

"i can't belive you are so stupid.
second line"

or

"people who still think that way deserve to die"

Don't forget the classic:

"great thread (OP), s&f!!!!!
second line"

Personally, I don't understand how saying "second line" after posting a single line as a comment is allowed. It can be rather annoying.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
We do not carry ourselves in a manner conducive to helping anyone come around to our line of thought. (that being that we are not told thhe truth--the whole truth, and there are many things that should be questioned)

I remember when name calling and cursing were not allowd on ATS. When someone would get into trouble for substituting one different letter in a curse word so that it would pass the filters. Remember when calling people names just because they they are still ignorant to the idea that we are routinely lied to? I do. I remember when this site stood for truth and denying ignorance. I miss that. Why on earth would anyone listen to what we are saying here when it is not uncommon to see things like:

"i can't belive you are so stupid.
second line"

or

"people who still think that way deserve to die"

and so on and so on. Imagine you are curious and starting to question MSM, so you look into seriously investigating the claims made on TV and look some things up for yourself. You hear about this website forum that is sopposed to be a serious forum where these things can be discussed intelligently. And you look at the headlines here and they read something similar to this:

"Religion must die!"
"Bush a reptillian? Here's proof!"
"It's time to revolt America"
"Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses"

I know exactly what you are saying. Certain theories and language that get tossed around here and at a lot of other places can unfortunately be off-putting to a curious individual seeking better answers.

However, by the same token, if someone hasn't reached the point where they are willing to separate the wheat from the chaff, then they aren't ready for truth anyway IMHO. I've gotten to the point I'm currently at by being indiscriminate about where I get my information. The only way to find the truth, or at least get closer to it, is to examine information from every aspect of life. For example, one needs to look at why someone would say "Bush is Reptillian, etc" no matter how ridiculous it sounds. There's bound to be some truth discovered in the process of investigating the claim, even if they do determine that it's silly or completely false. The reader would have at least come to familiarize themselves with ancient astronaut theory, Sumerian tablets, or mystical folklore for example. All of which are pieces to the puzzle of greater awareness

I think it boils down to this... Until someone is willing to drop ALL prejudices and let go of their ego, there will be no real discovery of truth or enlightenment for them. The mere fact that someone would instantly assume their fellow human beings who write strange things or behave inappropriately in their arguments are crazy and non-credible is a sign that THEY are the ones who are impeding their learning process. No one else is.

So yes, while I think it might help tremendously to try and be as professional as possible in presenting these topics, it's not the key. The key to awakening always lies withing the individual seeking knowledge in ALL things, no matter how strange or offensive they might be.

some people will not change their minds even when blinded by the brilliance of their stupidity. in fact, most people wont.

and it goes both ways. for every thread I read that makes me shutter at the supidity of what I read, Im sure I have made ten more people shudder from what I have written.

the way I see it, everybody is the smartest person they know. - meaning, most people think they have figured it all out. I like ATS because even though I have to read through some rather asinine stuff, I can occasionally see wisdom and common sense in the most unlikely of places.

what it all boils down to is not everybody wants or even has the time to perfectly articulate their thoughts so they can be understood by people from all walks of life.

Because of my regional dialect, I know that people from the UK might have a hard time understanding the context of the words I choose to use.

communication breakdown, its always the same......

I've owned, helped others moderate, and have been a member of a number of message board forums in my years spent online. IMO, global diversity is what makes participating on message boards fun. People from all backgrounds, ages, religious affiliations, education levels, etc. bring unique perspectives to the table. I learn something new all the time. I've come to realize that the reason why forums are so wildly popular is because almost everyone who participates in them wants to be surrounded by other people who will listen to, understand them, or help them to understand themselves. Over time, the camaraderie within the forum creates friendships and oftentimes becomes like a virtual family; and just like in many families, high emotions arise when people feel like they aren't being respected or understood. The key concept to remember here is 'family'. Even though people may disagree, we are all part of the ATS family. Whenever threads and issues like this arise, I like to post this video on how to behave on a message board forum. It's quite funny and true. How many of these issues have encountered?

Oops! Embedding has been disabled so here's the link:

Message Board Etiquette

[edit on 14-10-2009 by gazerstar]

It's a combination of reasons why they won't take us seriously.

Lack of evidence being the main reason.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


Thank you for saying this! Very timely thread, at least for my experience on the site.

I'm somewhat guilty of some of what you're talking about. I recently created a well-researched, professionally written (in my opinion) advisory on how to tell the average non-conspiracy type person the facts on the new H1N1 swine flu vaccine. I nievely entitled the thread "Sheeple-friendly" which I now have questioned. Although I generally still agree with the idea of the term 'sheeple' it was arrogant to use it as a general term.

I placed this, concerning false information about vaccines, on a thread recently:
"Where did this idea of shelf life and preservatives come from??? It's totally not accurate and it's starting to spread on ATS! Deny the Ignorance."
amazed what people will grasp onto despite ANY sort of fact-check or citations.

I totally support your thread OP - I hope more people on this site will protect its significance in the realm of non-MSM news and information.

A major step in protecting this site would be continually calling people on stating "facts" without citations.

The OP poses a fair question, if not somewhat ill defined.
There are more people waking up, therefore there are more people on ATS.
Most people Are idiots. (And no, I'm not subscribing to the philosophy you despouse in your post. Go look up the word "idiot" and you will see I'm right.)
Therefore, more people = more idiots.
Now, having said that I dare to postulate the following:
One will never see the day where conspiracy theorists are not ridiculed because if one's theory's were accepted they would cease to be conspiracy and then finally, "theory" at all.
That is not to say, however, that I have missed the point of your thread entirely due to semantics.
I suggest that we stop caring what "they" think of "us" and let the data stand on it's own, as ultimately, the data is all there is.

i understand the reason for the OP's post and i agree with a lot of what the post is saying, BUT, it is the agenda or manipulation that i am completely not down with.

"this website would suit ME better by MY beliefs on how it should be if eveyrbody acted this certain way that i wish them to act."

okay...



free speech rules.

we have people of every kind in the world and probably on this site.

if you want it your way...

go make a website and moderate it, instead of coming into what somebody else is working hard for and trying to say how it should "be" for it to be taken "seriously" (and in your opinion only)

i ask you, who do you think this website is trying to "impress" if you think it is scaring away so many dear people?

i could go on about many other things i foung wrong with this, quoting lines and so on, but i think:

make a website and moderate it

is the best answer for you.

rocknroll,

S

I agree with the OP to an extent, you shouldnt just make radical claims and pointless threads based on your own ideology and beliefs, but on the other hand everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I also feel that the moderators have the job to filter out the none sense and in that sense and in my opinion there should be many posts that should be removed due to in being counter productive to the cause of most here on ATS. I'm assuming that cause is to shed some light on the current situation in the world and in our own government, at least thats why i come here amongst other things. Most people can see through someone who would put up a post like " religions must die" they are transparent in their intentions to jusrt stir trouble and cause an argument.

the vulgarity and the name calling should go as well, there is no need for that type of language in an intelligent discussion and just goes to show the immaturity. But as well, that same immaturity is a sign that more and more younger people are waking up and they just need to learn how to channel their thoughts and opinions in an adult discussion.

There is hope out there for all.

Namaste.

Several reasons those "crazy" threads are given life and make it to the popular lists.

Positive Feedback Only
On ATS, users can only add positive feedback (stars & flags). So the only way for people to respond negatively is to create a negative post stating so. That creates a discussion (or argument), which (without negative stars & flags) artificially pumps up the replies, each time placing it to the top of the recent posts list.

Skewed Audience
This all creates the false appearance of an audience that LOVES fringe theories (by only allowing positive S&F), and that enjoys debating stupid topics (by forcing negative feedback to come in the form of a reply).

The Solution
ATS should allow an *Up* / *Down* star and flag system with the NET RESULT being graphically displayed. For example, if a thread has 42 *Up* flag votes and 62 *Down* flag votes the end result is -20 flags and is reported in an *Unpopular Topics* listing page.

Another example would be a thread with 128 *Up* flags and 110 *Down* flags, the net result would be 18 flags.

Good for ATS
This would be good for ATS members because it would provide a more complete picture of the ATS community as a whole to both its members and the outside world.

I think this is a great thread. You make a lot of good points. I find that I'm shaking my head in disgust a lot more than finding interesting threads to get involved in. I try to add thoughtful commentary that benefits the content of ATS when I can. And I think each of us has to take that responsibility for ourselves. Accountability isn't something you can or should force on another. But it sure would be nice if we could.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
I swear a lot. I am extremely vulgar when i am around my friends.

I do too. And my sense of humor is brash and vulgar. But after all I've gotten from ATS, I WANT to give them my best. I want the content that I add to the site to be something that I can look back on years from now and feel proud of, not ashamed. And I want more intelligent, well-spoken people to be attracted to the site, so fantastic discussions can take place.

Thanks for saying it.

reply to post by dooper


that was good.
also i can accept the a** comment above because in the sense that both of you have lightened the mood with a little humor, WHILE staying on topic and being kind about it.
thank you both for commenting, and proving that your mind should always be open. See, i kind of felt that the swear words had no value in a serious forum, but now i can see how in very rare instances, they lighten things up and are still respectful, and as for u dooper, your statement about your ability to factually validate "suckness" was perfectly timed in the thread. So, i'll be a big boy and admit that not only are there exceptions to what i have asked for, but that they are sometimes even called for.
thank you both
respectfully,
publius