Gary McKinnon suicidal following U.S. bullying

Continued ..

III: In relation to Section I, regarding the claims that Mr. McKinnon accessed an open Nasa computer for an innocent peek.

Fact: "The 97 computers the appellant accessed were: 53 army computers, including computers based in Virginia and Washington that control the army’s military district of Washington network and are used in furtherance of national defence and security; 26 navy computers, including US Naval Weapons Station Earle, New Jersey, which was responsible for replenishing munitions and supplies for the deployed Atlantic fleet; 16 NASA computers; one Department of Defense computer; and one US Air Force computer. Having gained access to these computers the appellant deleted data from them including critical operating system files from nine computers, the deletion of which shut down the entire US Army’s Military District of Washington network of over 2000 computers for 24 hours, significantly disrupting Governmental functions; 2,455 user accounts on a US Army computer that controlled access to an Army computer network, causing these computers to reboot and become inoperable; and logs from computers at US Naval Weapons Station Earle, one of which was used for monitoring the identity, location, physical condition, staffing and battle readiness of Navy ships, deletion of these files rendering the Base’s entire network of over 300 computers inoperable at a critical time immediately following 11 September 2001 and thereafter leaving the network vulnerable to other intruders. The appellant also copied data and files onto his own computers, including operating system files containing account names and encrypted passwords from 22 computers comprising: 189 files from US Army computers, 35 files from US Navy computers (including some 950 passwords from server computers at Naval Weapons Station Earle); and six files from NASA computers. The appellant’s conduct was alleged to be intentional and calculated to influence the US Government by intimidation and coercion. It damaged computers by impairing their integrity, availability and operation of programmes, systems, information and data, rendering them unreliable. The cost of repair was alleged to total over $700,000."

Info: Just like his actions from Section I, this behaviour can in no way be constituted as an innocent act of finding an open door and taking a harmless look around.

VI: Again his innocence and harmless actions are called into question by his own submission and with the message that he posted on one of the Army computers.

Fact: "He stated that his targets were high level US Army, Navy and Air Force computers and that his ultimate goal was to gain access to the US military classified information network. He admitted leaving a note on one army computer reading:

“US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”

Info: His actions, by his own admission, can clearly be defined as something more than innocent and harmless.

Allow me to intervene at this point, because I know from previous posts in this thread that someone is going to keep pointing out that all of the information presented has been labeled as "Alleged and Allegedly". Now I'm not going to get into a long drawn out lesson of Justice, because it is not needed. The term "Innocent until proven guilty" applies. You are innocent of the alleged crime that you are accused of until evidence and information has been gathered and presented in court to prove that you are guilty of the accusations. So with that ...

Continuance ...

The Evidence:
Many claim that the U.S. Government had no evidence that would justify the charging, extraditing, and sentencing Mr. McKinnon for the crimes that he "allegedly" committed.

Fact: "The extradition request had been preceded by:
Requests by the respondent government to the UK in March 2002 for mutual legal assistance pursuant to which the appellant’s home computer was seized and he was twice interviewed under caution.
Analysis of the appellant’s home computer confirmed these allegations. During his interviews under caution, moreover, he admitted responsibility (although not that he had actually caused damage)."

Info: After learning that the security breech had occured on their computer systems, the U.S. Government investigated and traced the path back to Mr. McKinnon and his computer. The U.S. then contacted the UK Authorities, passed on the information and requested them to investigate the "allegations". During their investigation, evidence was found to support the allegations made by the U.S.

Charges, Plea Bargains, and Sentencing:
As I was reading this thread, I kept seeing "60 years", "70 years", "Life Sentence" claims that Mr. McKinnon would undoubtly be sentenced or had already received these sentences as his punishment.

Fact: "Mr Stein, his superior Mr Hanly, and Mr Gibson as representatives of the US Government. Mr Stein confirmed that he was authorised to offer the appellant a deal in return for not contesting extradition and for agreeing to plead guilty to two of the counts laid against him of “fraud and related activity in connection with computers". On this basis it was likely that a sentence of 3-4 years (more precisely 37-46 months), probably at the shorter end of that bracket, would be passed and that after serving 6-12 months in the US, the appellant would be repatriated to complete his sentence in the UK. In this event his release date would be determined by reference to the UK’s remission rules namely, in the case of a sentence not exceeding four years, release at the discretion of the parole board after serving half the nominal sentence, release as of right at the two-thirds point. On that basis, he might serve a total of only some eighteen months to two years. As was made clear, upon a plea of guilty, the prosecutor was prepared to put the damage resulting from the appellant’s actions (the extent of the damage being of substantial relevance to the points calculation) in a lower bracket ($400,000 - $1m) than they believed they could prove. The lower figure is based merely on calculating the hours it took employees to conduct a damage assessment and to restore the compromised computer systems, multiplying the hours by the employee’s hourly wage. Nothing was included for the further losses caused through the inability to access the computers whilst the networks were being assessed for damage and repair. Furthermore, on a plea of guilty the prosecution were prepared to overlook the disruption to US Government functions based on the damage to the military District of Washington network and the Earle Weapons Station. They would not pursue enhancements of the sentence for significantly endangering national security and for substantial non-monetary harm, both provided for under the points system. In addition, of course, the sentence would be reduced by “acceptance of responsibility” over and above the reduction attracted merely by entering a timely guilty plea.

Info: The U.S. Government offered Mr. McKinnon a Plea Bargain. I will assume that everyone knows what that is and not explain it. By admitting responsibilty and accept extradition, Mr. McKinnon was looking at a reduced sentence with the option to return to the UK after a set period of time to finish out his punishment where on completion he would be released to continue with normal life as he knew it.

--Please See Next Post--

Continued ...

As the information states, prosecutors for the U.S. would lower the severity of the charges, withhold certain information that would increase severity of crime, and discount certain aspects of the recovery phase in order for his Plea Bargained sentence to be lessened. Less Crime = Less Time.

As with any Plea Bargain, there is another option that is far more worse than what is offered.

Fact: "If, however, the appellant chose not to cooperate, and were then extradited and convicted, he might expect to receive a sentence of 8-10 years, possibly longer, and would not be repatriated to the UK for any part of it. He would accordingly serve the whole sentence in a US prison (possibly high security) with at best some 15% remission. Mr Lawson clearly recalls the prospect of repatriation being stated to depend upon the appellant’s application for transfer being supported by the prosecution. If the support were withheld as it would be if extradition was contested, there was said to be no prospect of repatriation, a refusal by the Department of Justice being unreviewable in the US courts.

Info: This is the flip side to the Plea Bargain coin mentioned earlier. The results being: Maximum Charges and Maximum Sentencing to the full extent of the law. As the information states, 8-10 years, possibly longer, but it does not say anything about 60 years/70 years/Life Sentence like some have claimed to be Mr. McKinnon's decided fate.

I would like to point out that there have been a lot of claims against the U.S. and the U.S. Justice System being money hungry, blood thristy, heartless, inhuman, imposing, and just plain cruelty towards Mr. McKinnon "for no real reason".
-.- If that were true, then no Plea Bargain would have been offered.

There were also claims and statements made against the UK's decision to allow Mr. McKinnon to be extradited to the U.S. to stand trial and how it is against UK Law to knowingly allow a criminal to be extradited to a country that supports and encourages torture or cruel and unusual punishment. The U.S. does not support the Torturing of any individuall in U.S. Custody.

However, I would like to include some information here about what could possibly happen to Mr. McKinnon under UK Law.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by scobro
I hope,when it goes to trial,that his lawyer confronts the PTB with every single detail that McKinnon unearthed...

What details? McKinnon has no proof.

AFAIK he's under a gagging order under a pre-trial condition. He can choose to break it but risks blowing his case apart before it even begins...

reply to post by Detailed Perfection


Can I clarify here that where you have repeatedly written 'FACT:" that you are quoting the allegations of the U.S. Govt. made to secure his extradition and that these allegations are just that and have not been proven, and that the U.S. has not even been required to provide such evidence?

Therefore, they would not be 'FACTS" but merely allegation the U.S. Govt has made in order to get their hands on McKinnon?

"Analysis of the appellant’s home computer confirmed these allegations" is another allegation.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by Malcram]

reply to post by Malcram


Lots of ambiguity in the charges, but you can imagine all the problems you could have with NT if Mckinnon was trying to copy system files while the system was in use...

Do we know who his defense attorney is going to be? Obviously we don't know what Mckinnons defense will disclose only the direction it is likely to take from the very limited information we have so far.

I'm still trying to figure out what the NASA anti gravity interest was?

NASA spent over a million dollars in several attempts to recreate the Podkletnov gravity shielding experiment.

www.space.com...

The money could have been much better spent tightening up the ports on their internet connected computers.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]

reply to post by Skeptical Ed


We are all criminals! Not one of us can say we never cheated, lied or broke a law. Just because there is a law against doing something does not mean that law is true and just. We humans must learn not to judge one another in such ways as we currently do. Revenge and the desire to punish our fellow humans must come to an abrupt end before we can move to a higher level of being. Such things should be beneath us. We are better than the scumbags who put this trash into our brains.

Sounds like the great american plan... first you spread info on the media that he's suicidal now.... then a couple months after he's been behind the bars... OUPS omg he's found dead... he hung himself with both of his hands tied behind his back...

Primary the guy's only to blame at 50%.... and the US should assume their responsibilities... If I leave my house doors open and unlocked and I come home to find someone's gone with my TV... i'm as much to blame than the guy who took it... I should of assumed my responsibilities in first place and lock them...

Secondary... He didn't remove/alter existing data nor cause any damages to the system themselves he copied files and left a signature .txt file... i mean come on life in prison??? for f*** sakes...

Finally the internet was developed by guys like him... it belongs to geeks, nerds n' hackers... The internet should be the same way it started... A neutral virtual zone... everybody's responsible for the gain/lost they might get when they login...

Watch "Freedom Downtime" and see by yourselves how big brother love hackers... Why do you think they are demonized constantly by the media... when # hit the fan who are you going to be counting on to establish communication or other people? How many people here knows electronic... how many people here knows advanced networking and how to setup networks via RF to transmit data over hundreds of miles??? How many people here even know how to use/operate/repair a AM Radio or improvised electricity generators and #... Today alot of people are bitching about him and hackers about useless they are... I swear one day those people will think again on these words and swallow them back the hard way...

He just put his nose where it didnt belong.... wouldnt it be funny if uncle Sam would face the same charges when he put his nose where it doesnt belong??? Ohhh no wait... its a matter of national security... its all for your own good that big bro's snooping on your dirty cell conversations n' emails...

Man im getting so fed up with all this crap... I just hope 2012 IS IT!

Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by Detailed Perfection

 

Can I clarify here that where you have repeatedly written 'FACT:" that you are quoting the allegations of the U.S. Govt. made to secure his extradition and that these allegations are just that and have not been proven, and that the U.S. has not even been required to provide such evidence?

Therefore, they would not be 'FACTS" but merely allegation the U.S. Govt has made in order to get their hands on McKinnon?

"Analysis of the appellant’s home computer confirmed these allegations" is another allegation.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by Malcram]

Actually, I knew someone would bring this up and try to argue that point, which is why I adressed the "allegations, evidence, innocent until proven guilty, etc."

On one hand, you are right Malcram. Everything that I labeled as "Fact:" was indeed an allegation, at one point. So Let's find out what allegation means ...
Via Dictionary.com -
-- Allegation: an assertion made by a party in a legal proceeding, which the party then undertakes to prove.

So YES, everything labeled as "Fact:" in my outlines were indeed allegations.

That is until, and you quoted it yourself directly, "Analysis of the appellant’s home computer confirmed these allegations", because with the proof to back up the allegations, they became Evidence to be presented in a court of law.

And as far as your claim that "the U.S. has not even been required to provide such evidence" is a false statement. They contacted the proper UK authorities with their findings from their investigation, the "allegations". That UK authority investigated those "allegations" and they found the evidence to prove the allegations as Fact. Once they became fact, they became Evidence, that WILL be presented to the Judge in a court of law.

You want to bastardize the U.S. for "not providing the evidence" to the UK to justify Mr. McKinnon's extradition, when in FACT it was the UK that gathered the evidence that will eventually be used to convict Mr. McKinnon for the crimes that he had committed.

Hope I could clear that up for you.

Originally posted by _R4t_
Sounds like the great american plan... first you spread info on the media that he's suicidal now.... then a couple months after he's been behind the bars... OUPS omg he's found dead... he hung himself with both of his hands tied behind his back...

The "Great American Plan"? How can that be when the story being reported about him being suicidal was reported by CNN Europe?

"A couple of months behinds bars" ?? Read the news report, it states "McKinnon, currently free on bail in England"

the guy's only to blame at 50%.... and the US should assume their responsibilities... If I leave my house doors open and unlocked and I come home to find someone's gone with my TV... i'm as much to blame than the guy who took it... I should of assumed my responsibilities in first place and lock them...

C'mon! Really? You come home to find out that you have been robbed and you're HONESTLY going to stand their and blame yourself for someone else's devious actions? That's just like blaming a woman for being beaten and raped because she wore a short skirt. Please tell me that you are NOT that ignorant!

Secondary... He didn't remove/alter existing data nor cause any damages to the system themselves he copied files and left a signature .txt file...

Where do you get the information that he did not remove or alter data or cause any damage to the systems whatsoever? Because if you will read the FACTS, they found the evidence to prove that he had. He also admitted to it. Yes he denies that he knowingly caused any damage, but that's because he is trying to cover his own ass. He KNEW he did it. He KNEW that he had been caught with the evidence to prove it. But he's going to deny some of his actions in an attempt to further incriminate himself and face even more charges. Since you want to use analogies to dumb down everything, here's one for you. That like someone being arrested while driving a vehicle that they had just stolen and then telling the police 'Yeah I stole the car, but I didn't break that broken window to get in. Huh? Wha? Oh, I must have cut my hand while I was shaving this morning!'

i mean come on life in prison??? for f*** sakes...

Again I ask you..Where do you get this information from? Because it's not the truth.

Finally the internet was developed by guys like him... it belongs to geeks, nerds n' hackers... The internet should be the same way it started... A neutral virtual zone... everybody's responsible for the gain/lost they might get when they login...

Guys like him? You mean the same guy that everyone else is claiming to be too stupid when it comes to computers and hacking? The internet was Not created by "nerds and hackers". The internet was conceived and created by the Defense Department in 1969 by Scientist from Stanford and M.I.T. You want a history lesson on this subject as well?

Everything you said after this was nothing more than hot air and a smoke screen to hide your lack of knowledge of the facts for this particular Topic.

Stop beating the dead horse that is "the evil United States monster" and start doing your OWN research and thinking for yourself, instead of believing everything you see and hear as if it were gospel.



[edit on 15-10-2009 by Detailed Perfection]

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by tristar
It is very interesting to see how well many are defending him. Is it because he is from the United Kingdom or is it because you all enforce hacking into any network your right as a citizen either foreign or domestic ?

Please clarify.

Because the man has extreme social problems that affect his judgement, the man is very naive and his non violent act was born from curiosity not malice.

That is upon the courts or should i say federal court to decide providing his lawyers know how the system works which obviously they do. People obviously were betting on the alliance between the U.K. and the U.S. , but lets not forget this is individual is no diplomat, he is just an ordinary person who thought he could outsmart a multibillion dollar military installation.

Perhaps one should recall a similar incident with a Canadian citizen who was convicted and is now employed by ....guess who..!

So before everyone decides to race around the country side searching for witches you should take a step back and view the end result of U.S. policy upon individual who truly have a unique talent.

Originally posted by Badgered1
Were there any NASA personnel reprimanded for leaving their files unsecured?

I cannot confirm or deny any such action occurred.

As for the "leaving your door unlocked" analogy, I don't think it's fair. If you left your door open, and had a sensitive document pinned to the wall and someone used binoculars to see it from way outside your house, you are at fault for leaving the document unsecured. You can't "dole out punishment" as you see fit.

So i guess i can send you a simple .jpg or .gif file and soon after you can see me type on your screen a simple "Hello" , would that no piss you off ? , would you not seek help from authority's , would you not be concerned at the amount of intrusion level i may have achieved. "Theoretically speaking"

Your front door is only really keeping the honest people honest. If someone wanted to get in, they'd get in.

That is why there are laws and when one breaks the law he has chosen without any physical or mental duress knowing fully that if caught there will be consequences to be accounted for.

I'm still not clear on how he caused damage. Was the 'damages' the amount it cost to get a proper firewall? It's actually so very transparently funny that the amount is coincidentally just enough to get the extradition.

At that level, your actually talking about several thousands per hour for specific individuals to run a complete system check. Anyone who handles a network will realize how daunting and time consuming this is. Keep in mind, they would be going through every file searching for anomalies which should not be there. (Just a simple example)

If I look at a file on my company's server, I don't damage the system. What damage did he cause?
Oh, right. I see. NASA don't have to tell anyone.

The mere fact that one is in your system is damaging enough. Keep in mind you are referring to a military installation and not some business. They are responsible for multibillion dollar systems which some are aware of and others only read about in sci-fi comic books. Do you as an individual know how many eye's are up there all prepositioned to fly at specific time zones over specific installations for a specific reason. This does apply to allied and non allied nations. How else do you think the U.S. has maintains a hold on the world scene.

Or did you believe that politicians or some masons or god knows what other conspiracy is out there are the people responsible for allowing the U.S. to grow the way it has in just under 100 years. One simple rule, do not bring a knife to a gun fight.

reply to post by tristar


Gave you a Star for your intelligent input on the Topic.

I know the guy committed a crime in the eyes of the law but to me, if you deny the public this kind of information, then your asking for it.

I say more power to the hackers. I can't wait for the day I hear about a group of hackers somewhere who have totally cracked all military files and Nasa projects because I tell you now!.....If we don't forcefully take it, we will never see it.

These governments do not get to play parent anymore, we don't need to be suppressed against information.

I hope someone free's this man and take him away to somewhere where he can totally fu*k over these guys for good because all this make this guy do is rebel.

reply to post by Skeptical Ed


Maybe he commited a cime but being extradited to serve a possible 70 years is ridiculous.

If anything he did the americans a favour - NO passwords on many of their machines.

They claim he damaged their PCs. Not possible - he just damaged their reputations and they don't like it.

BUT - what they really don't want is someone like him selling the full story of what he discovered on their systems and THAT is why he's being dealt this disproportionate blow.

That's why they want to lock him up forever.



[edit on 15-10-2009 by Stanton Dowd]

Analysis of the appellant’s home computer confirmed these allegations. During his interviews under caution, moreover, he admitted responsibility (although not that he had actually caused damage)."

For the moment I'll assume Gary was a graduate of the "Hackers" movie school of miscreants searching for evidence of government involvement in 911 as he stated.

These military systems kept logs of the IP addresses that were used to connect to their computers. Many System administrators left the connection statistics public along with page access information.

Finding the statistics file and using the connection domain names listed as an itinerary to track down other military sites is legal. Its also common practice to leave most of the FTP area unprotected which usually contains a wealth of documents, utilities and image files. There is also usually an "incoming" folder left open with write permissions which may have been the area Gary uploaded his note. Again common practice and perfectly legal, even Netscape had an upload button.

Many military personnel also kept unlinked web pages and objects stored under general permissions. Guessing the correct URL could yield you anything from PGP keys to naked pictures of Nancy Reagan. Perhaps some felt that they could trade UFO pictures privately with their military buddies that way.

There would be all kinds of evidence from Garys service provider that he had toured the military network via his IP address log entries. That does not make him guilty of deleting files or entering password protected areas.
Those acts are still only alleged. I'm sure after the massive cleanup the generals naked pictures of Nancy Reagan went into a password protected area, but at the time of his tour he may have accessed them legally.

The warnings on these military sites said that misuse of the sites by unauthorized modifications to them would be prosecuted. System modifications done under NT don't leave a log entry with an IP address. To prosecute the military needed some evidence of modifications that could easily be understood by a jury and PC anywhere is simple conceptually. Hackers would not generally use PC anywhere since it provides a users view of the system. Its much quicker to just surf the directory tree where the objects are neatly stored. The use of utilities like PC anywhere was pretty common for lazy system administrators so it's possible some of the back end software was installed by someone other than Gary.

We don't know yet whether there are any PC anywhere session logs that could be used to prove he installed a back end utility or not but that is likely to be important. When the system admins were told to go look for trouble I'm sure they found a lot of stuff not caused by Mckinnons tour.

Just a few examples of where there might still be some ambiguity in the charges.

reply to post by Detailed Perfection

The "Great American Plan"? How can that be when the story being reported about him being suicidal was reported by CNN Europe?

You are soooo right... CNN UK as NOTHING to do with CNN US everybody knows they arent under Time Warner's umbrella who's headquarter happens to be in New-York... gotta be outsourcing from the UK or something??? Oh and while were at it

CNN Airport Network
CNN en Español
CNN Chile
HLN
CNN-IBN
n-tv
CNN Turk
CNN+

Soooo totally none related or eachother...

"A couple of months behinds bars" ?? Read the news report, it states "McKinnon, currently free on bail in England"

Then again... you beat me...

www.independent.co.uk...

[9 Oct 2009 ... Hacker refused right to appeal extradition to US. Gary McKinnon could face up to 70 years in prison if tried in America.]

He's only 43... he's be out of there in no time im sure when he get out he's change his computer habits and try hiking, MMA and parcour... We all know nothing can stop a 113 years old young man... Its reaalllyyyy not like he has any chances to die in there...

C'mon! Really? You come home to find out that you have been robbed and you're HONESTLY going to stand their and blame yourself for someone else's devious actions? That's just like blaming a woman for being beaten and raped because she wore a short skirt. Please tell me that you are NOT that ignorant!

My favorite one... your absolutly right... its 100% his fault... its his fault if they had highly classified and sensitive data hosted on machines with blank password, no encryption, no IDS detection, bad permission settings on fully accessible machine with full trust relationship without any vulgare attempt to isolate them on the network anyhow (With "REMOTE DESKTOP" Enabled...... Its all Gary's fault... Next time you go to a bar try leaving your wallet with 500$ in it on a table without supervision while you go take a leak... After all if it gets stolen its sooooooo not going to be your fault... Don't we all know curiousity is a crime punishable of 70 years of prison...

Where do you get the information that he did not remove or alter data or cause any damage to the systems whatsoever? Because if you will read the FACTS, they found the evidence to prove that he had. He also admitted to it. Yes he denies that he knowingly caused any damage, but that's because he is trying to cover his own ass. He KNEW he did it. He KNEW that he had been caught with the evidence to prove it. But he's going to deny some of his actions in an attempt to further incriminate himself and face even more charges. Since you want to use analogies to dumb down everything, here's one for you. That like someone being arrested while driving a vehicle that they had just stolen and then telling the police 'Yeah I stole the car, but I didn't break that broken window to get in. Huh? Wha? Oh, I must have cut my hand while I was shaving this morning!'
i mean come on life in prison??? for f*** sakes...