Gary McKinnon suicidal following U.S. bullying

Originally posted by tristar
So i guess if i or someone else decides to successfully hack your home pc because i believe you may have ufo/alien files you will not have a problem with this, you will not seek to persecute him/her or who ever else is responsible ?

Or is it because its NASA or a government agency that its okay to hack them for the purpose of looking for alien/ufo files.....

Flimsy or not, if i suspect you have files you should not have, then i can use the same "flimsy" excuse as this individual has.

Hows that for a twin bladed knife.

*This is also used for suspected people who have illegal porn files, obviously its not legal but sure as hell has been successful

Your analogy doesn't work because Gary didn't access a private individuals files, their 'private property'. US Govt agencies are meant to serve the people who pay their wages. They have a duty to serve which many people feel is violated by their then keeping secrets and lying to the people. This is not what Govt Officials are elected to do or Govt Agencies are funded to do. When this happens the system has clearly broken down and individuals can be expected to take things into their own hands in order to uncover the truths that those who are supposed to serve the people, are hiding from them. And when those hidden truths have a direct impact on the entire population of the earth in countless ways (such as the hiding of clean energy means America as a huge nation and mass consumer unnecessarily damages the whole world with it's pollution) then individuals around the world are going to start trying to get access to that information.

So I don't think your analogy works on any level. If a private individual had been tasked by the people to discover the truth about clean energy and if we are alone in the universe etc, and had been funded millions upon millions to do so, again, by the people, and then this individual failed to live up to their obligations and in fact continually lied about and suppressed this information, then yes, individuals would have every right to access his computer to find this information.

And anyway, Govt agencies are continually accessing individuals computers and violating citizens privacy in countless ways, and their motivation is not benign. I don't see any of them being threatened with 60 years in a foreign jail.

One set of rules for them, and another for everyone else.

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people"? Yeah right. Couldn't really be further from the truth.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by Malcram]

reply to post by Skeptical Ed


"If there is crime within a society there is no justice." ----PLATO

How far away from reality is this really taking us? And the reality is that Gary Mckinnon was only trying to help humanity.

reply to post by tristar


Which ones are more deceitful ?who has the most to gain with knowledge withheld about the human races ancestry.

Wouldn't you want to know, the freedom of information act is a wonderful thing.

Also while everybody cries about this one act of extortion, there are state laws being replaced with federal laws.

no password meant no conviction

mabye its time for the us to upgrade its expertize about networks and how to make em closed.

Originally posted by tristar
Just on a side note, all any related documents are classified as National Security. Do you understand. ?

No. So why didn't they keep them secure then?

Okay from top.

He accessed a restricted area without authorization.
1st mistake

He installed back end monitoring drivers.
2nd Mistake


If you would like to argue anything you can view "1st Mistake" and all and every attempt to credit his actions is futile.


Now for a touch of reality, apart from all the conspiracy theories and nut jobs surfing the net, do you honestly believe that nsa files are online ? . How stupid do you think they/we/them, are ?

For further informative information or clarification feel free to submit your questions here

Originally posted by tristar
Okay from top.

He accessed a restricted area without authorization.

If you would like to argue anything you can view "1st Mistake" and all and every attempt to credit his actions is futile.

You realize you sound like an unthinking robot spewing programmed responses?

"Restricted area...without authorization....attempt to credit his actions is futile....EXTERMINATE!!....EXTERMINATE!!"



McKinnon Vs Tristar can be seen from 0:35 on lol




[edit on 14-10-2009 by Malcram]

reply to post by Malcram


That is from Dr. Who right ?

Indeed, that was a good oldie

I think it's pathetic how america is making a point out of this poor man.. he didn't commit a crime.. who are they protecting.. no one but themselves.. he made a mistake.. but didn't hurt no one but himself.. i'd say the stress he's going through is punishment enough.. sadly i'll be expecting mckinnen dead headlines in the paper when he goes to the us.. who knows.. maybe he'll join the aryan brotherhood and put some beef on, grow a handlebar mustache and come out a rascist murderer who can really cause people problems.

Originally posted by tristar

That is from Dr. Who right ?

Indeed, that was a good oldie

Yep, good old Dr Who

reply to post by homoerectus


Your comments are more than true. Currently this thread seems to have been taken over by the government shills raving about how important secrecy is, without any care for how it effects the daily world of each human.

Sure, it is a crime to access computers that you don't own, without the permission of the people that do, which the government does every day. Its also a crime to have your citizens starve while you give the people responsible billions of dollars of those citizens money. It is also a crime to enslave humanity to the pursuit of energy for the sake of the few who happen to run the oil cartels.

Not one of these "Burn Him" shills have even asked the question, what if Gary did find that there are many repressed technologies? Why has the internal combustion engine not seen any radical improvements over the past 60 years? Why are we still burning coal to produce electricity? Or using Nuclear Power when we have no way to dispose of the waste?

There is no doubt in my mind that they will throw Gary to the wolves, for the sake of saving face. I would suggest that these raving "Burn Him" government shills have a good long look at what happened to the brown shirts in Nazi Germany once their usefulness had played out.


..Ex

Originally posted by tristar
Okay from top.

He accessed a restricted area without authorization.
1st mistake

And sending him to prison will surely make the access undone?

It is very interesting to see how well many are defending him. Is it because he is from the United Kingdom or is it because you all enforce hacking into any network your right as a citizen either foreign or domestic ?

Please clarify.

Originally posted by tristar
It is very interesting to see how well many are defending him. Is it because he is from the United Kingdom or is it because you all enforce hacking into any network your right as a citizen either foreign or domestic ?

Please clarify.

Because the man has extreme social problems that affect his judgement, the man is very naive and his non violent act was born from curiosity not malice.

If this guy is from another country and hacked into OUR Country's files then he mos definitely deserves the boot. almost qualifies as a spy.

however if he was from the US and hacked into our own government files then he deserves a job. I say that bc of alll the countless ppl who are convicted of "hacking" and thrown into jail for a few days, only to be hired by the feds to do their dirty work (favors). if the feds are going to be hypocrits with one person then they must do it for all. cant have ur caKE AND EAT IT TOO, FATBOY!

Originally posted by tristar
It is very interesting to see how well many are defending him. Is it because he is from the United Kingdom or is it because you all enforce hacking into any network your right as a citizen either foreign or domestic ?

Please clarify.

It's because he was forcibly removed to the UK and transferred to the US on vague grounds.

Besides, simply logging in to a user account that has no password can't reasonably be defined has "hacking". Except for maybe by US officials who make up their own rules as they see fit.

Now, does having him spend upwards of 70 years in prison help making the alleged intrusion undone?

Were there any NASA personnel reprimanded for leaving their files unsecured?

As for the "leaving your door unlocked" analogy, I don't think it's fair. If you left your door open, and had a sensitive document pinned to the wall and someone used binoculars to see it from way outside your house, you are at fault for leaving the document unsecured. You can't "dole out punishment" as you see fit.

Your front door is only really keeping the honest people honest. If someone wanted to get in, they'd get in.

I loved the remark that it is illegal to extradite to countries that use torture...

If this were a movie, Gary would have evidence stashed somewhere safe; just in case anything were to happen to him.
Perhaps that's why he's still alive.

I'm still not clear on how he caused damage. Was the 'damages' the amount it cost to get a proper firewall? It's actually so very transparently funny that the amount is coincidentally just enough to get the extradition.

If I look at a file on my company's server, I don't damage the system. What damage did he cause?
Oh, right. I see. NASA don't have to tell anyone.

reply to post by Badgered1


Since we are speaking in metaphorical terms, the paper may have been pinned to some wall but was not viewable via the use of binoculars but one needed to enter the property to view the documents through the window. Hence he was on/in private property.

Obviously he enjoyed his stay, were only providing the presidential suite to make his stay far more comfortable.

Originally posted by tristar
reply to post by Badgered1

 

Since we are speaking in metaphorical terms, the paper may have been pinned to some wall but was not viewable via the use of binoculars but one needed to enter the property to view the documents through the window. Hence he was on/in private property.

Obviously he enjoyed his stay, were only providing the presidential suite to make his stay far more comfortable.

No I think the metaphor of viewing through binoculars is fair because he never left the UK, or indeed, his flat.





[edit on 14-10-2009 by Malcram]

I'm going to weigh in here, because I have a hard time understanding what a lot of you saying.
First off, I am an American, but do not lump me in to the "Burn Him" category or any other TPTB Sympathiser groups.
Now to be honest, I had never heard of Gary McKinnon or anything else that has been said about him here until I read through this post. Now having done that, I decided to perform MY OWN "investigation" to gather the factual information that is available.
Afterall, that is why we have ATS to begin with, isn't it? To have your eyes opened with information that was previously unknown to yourself, and to Then do your own reasearch and come to your own conclusion!
Well .. I opened my eyes, I researched and I have concluded. (Granted, my research is still on going and my conclusion is based on what I have found, Thus Far ..

The Timeline
Some people have been discussing the computer technology and the internet connection abilities of the Late 90's. Claims were also made that Mr. McKinnon had been doing this for "years".

Fact: "On 7 October 2004 the respondent government requested his extradition to the United States alleging that between 1 February 2001 and 19 March 2002 he had gained unauthorised access to 97 US Government computers from his home computer in London."

Info: February 2001 - March 2002 is not "years". Also, any discussion of Late 90's computer technology and internet connection options available during that time becomes an invalid point of arguement.

The Crime
I: It's been said on here many times that Mr. McKinnon was just harmlessly messing around and just so happened to find an open door to a Nasa computer and had an innocent peek around.

Fact: "Using his home computer the appellant, through the internet, identified US Government network computers with an open Microsoft Windows connection and from those extracted the identities of certain administrative accounts and associated passwords. Having gained access to those accounts he installed unauthorised remote access and administrative software called “remotely anywhere” that enabled him to access and alter data upon the American computers at any time and without detection by virtue of the programme masquerading as a Windows operating system. Once “remotely anywhere” was installed, he then installed software facilitating both further compromises to the computers and also the concealment of his own activities. Using this software he was able to scan over 73,000 US Government computers for other computers and networks susceptible to similar compromise. He was thus able to lever himself from network to network and into a number of significant Government computers in different parts of the USA."

Info: Yes, he found an open computer on an open network for the U.S. Government. It does not say that this particular computer belonged to Nasa. Continuing, he stole vital administrative information and installed software to hide his actions. He then used the info gathered to scan more than 73,000 computers for MORE networks to access. These actions, in no way can be described as a quick harmless peek through an open door.

II: Claims have been made that Mr. McKinnon is incapale of performing the alleged crime because his knowledge and abilities of and with computers are somewhat limited and lacking.

Fact: "The appellant is a 42 year old British citizen, an unemployed computer systems administrator."

Info: Computer System Aministrators are expected to understand their job functions and responsibilities. This leads us to believe that Mr McKinnon was not only fully aware of his actions, but that he was also fully capable of committing the acts that are alleged.

--Please See Next Post For Continuance--