What gives the US special status?

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by Mokoman

 

Oh, there will be lots of changes in 20 years but the overall position and stattus of the US in world affairs won't.

You're right, that position won't change... it already has. The status you are talking of started crumbling down a long time ago. It's long gone my friend.

There will be plenty of domestic issues to deal with then as now. Since when does that prevent the US from involvement in foreign affairs except maybe in your mind?

It doesn't. They do as they please, and do it with pride. As do other self-proclaimed superpowers. Being an aggressor doesn't make you special in any way. Certain countries get privileges because the others value a peaceful relationship and don't want to risk getting nuked. It's called fearmongering. If spreading fear and tyranny is equal to having special status then I misunderstood the meaning and stand corrected...

And since when are countries in the world equal? They aren't, get over it. You go ahead and "move beyond that" and the rest of us will face reality!

Reality is what we make it. I have moved way beyond 'that' which is why I won't be bullied anymore. But you are free to continue believing you are living in a special country. Just don't expect the rest of the world to share your view, besides the ones who are brainwashed (like yourself) or afraid.

For example, the UN general council gives equal status to countries but the UN security council gives special privileges to select members.

UN... lol
I served in the military as a medic for 6 years, believe me when I say I have seen the values of the UN up close and personal. Hardly an institution whose judgment or values are worth considering. If there is a hell on earth, the UN is probably it. If they are the reference that enforce your standpoint then I really feel sorry for you.

I believe strongly in the principle of equality, just as you apparently believe in your superiority (or perhaps inferiority of others)

Could you perhaps explain to me what you think makes one country better / more special / superior to another?

Originally posted by Mokoman

One thing unique about US is that it's the only country in the west where the indigenous inhabitants live in fenced reservations. You talk about Americans like it's a race of people. Seems to me like there's enough domestic issues to resolve before involving with foreign afairs... let alone claim to have special status.

It's all about respect.

Which res do you live on, that they gave you a fence? Did your tribe have to insist on that in the treaty negotiations? I ask because I wanna move to THAT res. Whatever they use to keep me IN will help me to keep the crazies OUT.

reply to post by nenothtu


People especially over seas think we keep the Indians locked up in make shift prisons its actually hysterical. My mother was an Indian married a white man my god i guess thats so she wouldn't have to live in a tee-pee. American Indians have houses work jobs and have cars just like every other American after all they are citizens.

Oh and as for reservations that means land has been reserved for the tribe the reason this was done was Indians had no understanding of land ownership by an individual.This is one of the reasons the Indians sold the land.In actuality they thought they were pulling a fast one on the settlers. They were giving them goods for something they believed couldn't be owned.SO IN TRUTH BOTH SIDES WERE BEING DECEITFUL

Sorry didn't ready everything, but someone mentioned we have a $600+ billion defense budget. Think about how many people die in the U.S. due to starvation and the likes, let alone "terrorists". Our money should be spent elsewhere....

reply to post by Mokoman

Could you perhaps explain to me what you think makes one country better / more special / superior to another?

That is another thread that I'd like to do, "Origin and maintenance of the world power structure". There are a lot of myths.

I don't think it is better, special or superior as it is just the US position in the world in regards to military and economic strength. Right now and far into the future no one is close. Not China, not Russia, etc., the EU has the size but not the organization or the will.

reply to post by dragonridr


You forgot to mention that some have sneaked off the res...

It's easy... you just make sure the white folks are looking the other way - and make sure you have your wirecutters handy!

I liked the reference about your mom not having to live in tee-pees any more. My people never lived in 'em to begin with. Neither did we wear those big 'ol feather hats, with feathers trailing all the way to the ground!

The misconceptions aren't just overseas. I went into an unemployment office several years ago, and the lady looked me up on their computer (I guess it was linked to other government machines, because I never told 'em I was an indian) and she looks at me and says "You don't LOOK like an indian". I kinda looked at her deadpan for a minute, then asked if it would help if I went outside and came back with some feathers in my hair...

reply to post by nenothtu


No! What did she say? That is so funny!



[edit on 15-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by dragonridr

 

You forgot to mention that some have sneaked off the res...

It's easy... you just make sure the white folks are looking the other way - and make sure you have your wirecutters handy!

I liked the reference about your mom not having to live in tee-pees any more. My people never lived in 'em to begin with. Neither did we wear those big 'ol feather hats, with feathers trailing all the way to the ground!

The misconceptions aren't just overseas. I went into an unemployment office several years ago, and the lady looked me up on their computer (I guess it was linked to other government machines, because I never told 'em I was an indian) and she looks at me and says "You don't LOOK like an indian". I kinda looked at her deadpan for a minute, then asked if it would help if I went outside and came back with some feathers in my hair...

did the feathers work chief.

I don't think it is better, special or superior as it is just the US position in the world in regards to military and economic strength. Right now and far into the future no one is close. Not China, not Russia, etc., the EU has the size but not the organization or the will.

You mentioned prevously that countries aren't equal, that led me to believe you think that one would be superior to another.
Have you any idea on the economic and military capacity of the Chinese? Almost 20% of the total population on Earth lives in China. Compared to most capitalist countries, the % of total population who join the military in socialist / communist countries is much higher. I'm sorry my friend but you are wrong. The US is not the strongest, they just wage more war on the world leading you to believe they are. But that's not the issue for me. If we could all see eachother as equals and not strive for superiority then the world would be a better place.
The only way for peace to really have a chance is when everyone adopts this ideal of equality. Anyone who doesn't believe it to be possible is holding it back.

And I assume your remark regarding economy is a joke, right? The US has the single largest debt on the planet.

your right.[above]

but the states dont go to war with china or russia or anyone else they cannot bomb out of existance from a safe range.

vietnam was a phycological blow to the american phychy a disaster that knocked the swagger out of them as they thought they could just roll in as per.


nows its a no no subject .. the murder of the student protestors is what america was about then and still is .. how free were the students to voice their opinions .. and that was before the patriot act.

why would anyone think anything different would happen now.

and these clowns still believe they live in a free nation.




[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer - I have a lot of respect for your generally even minded approach to posts - though you are obviously very keen to defend the US.

One criticism I would have is that while you have a good historical knowledge - it is of the 'conventional' variety.

The conventional - or propaganda history as I would like to alternatively label it - looks at things as if they happen at random and by chance. The usual approach is to answer the superficial questions of where, what and when.

If ATS has taught anyone anything - then it is the need to take a deeper look into the issues, and that the questions of who, why and how provide a far greater insight into meaning than the standard approach.

Your first paragraph is about the US policing the world - and other nations benefiting - but not assisting. You seem to hold the view that cowardice is the issue.

Ok - there's a few things wrong with both tho0se conclusions.

The US military industry holds masses of political power in the US - these guys are always pressing for new conflicts. Whenever the US gets involved in a conflict - they win, even if the US loses. Other nations may not want to be involved for a number of reasons - no profit for them, they consider it aggressive intervention, the reasons for the action are not valid in a context of creating the greater good. You surely understand that most of the reasons for war are not the ones that are spouted by politicians - or pushed on the media. The reasons always revolve around money for special interests.

You defend the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by weighing up various other evils - however those were not military targets, they were civilian. Military targets were available - but not chosen - also - Japan was ready to surrender - further even a demonstration of the use of a nuke would have likely caused instant submission - even if it was just used on a unpopulated area. These are not sins of the US - but rather of those in control of the US - what we now call the NWO.

Nazi Germany did kill a lot of people, so did Stalins Russia - both were created initially by the NWO. Hitler's private army was financed by US and EU banks - and he was placed into power by them. One of the first issues that was urgent to JP Morgan was a steel plant in Poland - and this was the reason Poland was invaded. The steel plant was then used to produce armor for the Germans. Communist Russia was created in a deal after WWII - eastern Europe was handed over to raise Russia to a superpower - this was to create a balance of power for the US - to create the cold war. it didn't happen by accident.

Loans made to Europe and Japan after the war do not constitute a 'good deed' - in fact totally the opposite. Japan was enslaved by the US - and the war debt, as was Germany. The loans to Europe greatly increased the wealth and power of the NWO - both the US and European bankers.

To claim that US influence is the cause of western prosperity is a stretch - but certainly the ability to tax the world through holding its reserve currency, and to get free oil from the middle east benefited the US itself. Europe was unlikely to accept the brand of communism in Russia - but I feel that was a test case, world wide communism is the end game for the NWO - they wanted to see it in action large scale. They have since been eradicated from Russia in the most part - destroyed by the very system they created. Russia now seems fairly clear of the NWO - resting rather in the hands of the oligarchs created through the corruption of soviet Russia.

The conflict in Korea was not useful - North Korea is poor not because it is communist - but because it has been sanctioned to death. The capitalist system used in South Korea is the same flawed system of money and finance that has enslaved the rest of the western world - and is soon to bring its destruction - exponential growth is no longer plausible.

Certainly the US has resited the spread of communism - and for that the world certainly owes the American constitution - a few of its presidents, and its people a debt of gratitude.

However - communism, or rather a nasty blend of facism is threatening your own nation - and should you fail to recognize this viper in your own house, and remove its head - then you will succumb to the very system your country has fought so successfully across the world.

The main thing that I would like to say about the US is this - it has been owned and operated by the globalists for quite a while. One thing they have never quite achieved is the complete destruction of its constitution.

While there is life left in that piece of paper - your nation has hope - if it falls, you fall - and perhaps all of the west is lost.

It is not necessary to bear the burden of the lives your controllers have destroyed in your name - it is however the hope of free people everywhere that you will uphold the principles of your constitution - and destroy those inside your own nation, who are seeking the destruction of liberty everywhere.

EDIT: I should point out that the brand of corporatism/fascism that is currently being practiced in the west, is a greater threat to humanity than communism - simply because it creates the power to enforce that brand of government. Real capitalism must depend on real money - not money created from nothing by private banks - who intend nothing less than the enslavement of the entire world.

While the financial system endures in its current state - while people do not understand what bank credit and money really are - then the threat of total enslavement overhangs the world every day.

Learn about money - learn about the central banking cartel - understand the viper - and cut off its head. Only sound money - and the total destruction of the current financial order can preserve the liberty of all men.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Amagnon]

a stars the least that post deserves m8.

and good as it was it will be wasted on him as he just doesnt want to know.

this is all in non americans minds .. to them we are anti american so indoctrinated are they that they cannot see .. and i dont believe anyone is that wilfully blind .. its more likely they are here with an agendi.





[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

The real reason is that the U.S. houses probably people from every culture, race, and ethnicity here, so it makes going to war a little intolerable when the very people that live in the united states are literaly going to war with their brothers or sister from another country.

Thats the only reason that the U.S. is in everybodies business because we have people from every nation here.

It becomes more and more like a civil war getting the picture now.



[edit on 16-10-2009 by menguard]

yeah the pictures are well got.

like the ones off your civil war child victims with their intestines spread all over a bagdad street.

reply to post by manxman2


Humanity has a wide spread epidemic deemed in the blood of many to fuel the few. I point out the direction of a nation not take a stand with it, but within it.

I could point out the flaws and weaknesses of every nation but in doing so I would just show the work that needs to be done in HUMANITY.

If it wasn't for the US, the world would be incomplete chaos

you wont get a humanitarian dialog going with america because you cannot have humanitarian talks whilst your on the wrong end of a gun barrel.

the phrase nuclear diplomacy ring any bells.

wishful thinking will not stop iraqi kids being murdered by american munitions.

personally the sooner your country goes broke the better we will all be the world over.

i cannot ever see america being a true democracy again until you have to rise out of armaggedon and a represented by people who truly care about american people first and humanity secondly.

you just cannot expect respect whilst looking down a gun barrel at someone. .. all you will get is fear and hatred .. ring any bells.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

Originally posted by wouldu
If it wasn't for the US, the world would be incomplete chaos

As opposed to the complete chaos that its caused?



[edit on 16-10-2009 by Merriman Weir]

IN war nobody wins, there are casualities everywhere. In war why is it peoples leaders are never brought down, just the people.


EVERYTHING LEAVES AN IMPRINT, THAT ENERGY IN A GIVEN AREA IS REGISTERED INTO THE DATA BANKS OF ALL SURVIVING PARTIES.

Is war a necessity just in case humanity has to take on outside visitor?

Is all the bloodshed just a tool or mechanism for survival or for peace, kind of like how the ingrediants in a certain recipe is used. And once their is UNDERSTANDING of how to make the recipe then there are other ways to make it.

War in itself is more about individuality I have decided then making a mends with inner conflict.

RELIGIOUS FRONTS HAVE CREATED MORE WARS THEN ANTHING.
the MY GOD IS BIGGER THEN YOUR GOD MENTALITY.

The biggest god does nothing and lets the world move around him.

Change in itself is a necessity for growth, but really what lies within that change is a change in ENERGY.

The key fundamental in any situation without it, ones body wouldn't be able to move.

reply to post by Amagnon

You defend the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by weighing up various other evils - however those were not military targets, they were civilian. Military targets were available - but not chosen - also - Japan was ready to surrender - further even a demonstration of the use of a nuke would have likely caused instant submission - even if it was just used on a unpopulated area

Here's an interesting perspective on that.

The Decision to Risk the Future:
Harry Truman, the Atomic Bomb and the Apocalyptic Narrative

Japanese leaders, many demonstrating little concern for the suffering of their own people, had already witnessed U.S. firebombing and often near-total destruction of 64 cities without ending the war.


The U.S. had shown it could level Japanese cities almost at will in the months preceding Hiroshima. Whether the U.S. did so with hundreds of bombers or with one plane and one bomb did not fundamentally alter the strategic situation in the eyes of Japanese leaders.

Even Army Minister Korechika Anami’s startling announcement on August 9 that he had intelligence indicating that the U.S. might have more than 100 additional atomic bombs and that Tokyo would be the next target did not change the views of members of the War Cabinet who remained deadlocked 3-3 over whether to simply demand retention of the emperor system or to add three additional conditions

The conflict in Korea was not useful - North Korea is poor not because it is communist - but because it has been sanctioned to death. The capitalist system used in South Korea is the same flawed system of money and finance that has enslaved the rest of the western world - and is soon to bring its destruction - exponential growth is no longer plausible.

As many here love to state that China does not bow to foreign pressure I highly doubt they would have happily followed along with the UN sanctions. They have not. One would think that they being N Korea's greatest Allie would have shared the wealth. Why haven't they?

North Korea although has been slapped with sanctions also doesn't like nor want outside influences. Since they chose communism and refused to participate as a lawful member and respectful neighbor they have been blacklisted. They backed the wrong horse and now are a threat not only to the US and her Allies but also to their own former backers. China and now Russia formerly the USSR.


Juche

North Korea is a self-described Juche (self-reliant) state[50] with a pronounced cult of personality organized around Kim Il-sung (the founder of North Korea and the country's first and only president)

According to Kim Jong-il's On the Juche Idea, the application of Juche in state policy entails the following:

1. The people must have independence (chajusong) in thought and politics, economic self-sufficiency, and self-reliance.

Despite its aspirations to self-sufficiency, North Korea has continually relied on economic assistance from other countries. Historically, North Korea received most of its assistance from the USSR until its collapse in 1991. In the period after the Korean War, North Korea relied on economic assistance and loans from "fraternal" countries from 1953-1963 and also depended considerably on Soviet industrial aid from 1953-1976.

Following the fall of the USSR, the North Korean economy went into a crisis, with consequent infrastructural failures contributing to the mass famine of the mid-1990s. After several years of starvation, the People's Republic of China agreed to be a substitute for the Soviet Union as a major aid provider

However - communism, or rather a nasty blend of facism is threatening your own nation - and should you fail to recognize this viper in your own house, and remove its head - then you will succumb to the very system your country has fought so successfully across the world.

The main thing that I would like to say about the US is this - it has been owned and operated by the globalists for quite a while. One thing they have never quite achieved is the complete destruction of its constitution.

You seem to think that I'm ignorant of such possibilities. As far as this matter you are preaching to the choir. I am as well as many others are more than familiar with this possible scenario.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/98ab6ea9f2bf.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/46cde81a1cd5.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0822e9ff9f5a.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ac69c1fc5ca7.jpg[/atsimg]

It has been here since the beginning. Here is some lite reading I think you would find interesting. Enjoy.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the New World Order

AND

Emergency Broadcast - New World Order Ahead!

EDIT: I should point out that the brand of corporatism/fascism that is currently being practiced in the west, is a greater threat to humanity than communism - simply because it creates the power to enforce that brand of government. Real capitalism must depend on real money - not money created from nothing by private banks - who intend nothing less than the enslavement of the entire world.

It has been claimed that the US through it's actions has been responsible for over 80 million deaths. I say it's probably closer to 100 million deaths worldwide. That's of course if everybody ignores the fact the Communist nations were responsible for over half those numbers or more.

Still let the US take on the burden of those 100 million or more. Irrelevant. In the same time period the Earths population has gone from 3 billion to well over 6.5 billion a growth which would not have been possible if there wasn't a direct connection to free economic growth, Industrial output coupled with Agricultural expansion tied to free markets.

All of which the US good/bad/indifferent has sometimes and I will admit dragged the world towards it's highest level of prosperity. They came along either kicking and screaming or willingly into the 21st century. You see American lending Europe/Germans and Asia/Japanese money for reconstruction as enslaving them. Well if it wasn't for Germany being an economic powerhouse right now the EU would be hurting something fierce.

Without Japans recent contribution to high technology we would be probably mailing our responses to each other through the postal services.

Shall we talk of the future? Before we begin let's gain an understanding of each others perspectives. Here are mine. Enjoy.


The New Great Game

AND

Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!

[edit on 16-10-2009 by SLAYER69]