What gives the US special status?

reply to post by SLAYER69

Still let the US take on the burden of those 100 million or more. Irrelevant. In the same time period the Earths population has gone from 3 billion to well over 6.5 billion a growth which would not have been possible if there wasn't a direct connection to free economic growth, Industrial output coupled with Agricultural expansion tied to free markets.

Where did you get this info from?

Statistics show that population growth increases in times of economic downturn and decrease in times of prosperity.

There is no such thing as free economic growth, it is an illusion. The economic growth you talk about is an increase in global debt. Nothing more, nothing less. I would think the current situation would be evident enough of this.

Originally posted by Mokoman
There is no such thing as free economic growth, it is an illusion. The economic growth you talk about is an increase in global debt. Nothing more, nothing less. I would think the current situation would be evident enough of this.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b160ab9b27f8.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16196c9f5cbf.jpg[/atsimg]

Contrary to pop culture internet voodoo economic experts. Economics 101 states there will always be periods of growth then contraction followed by growth again. It's cyclical. The US is in the worst one for many reasons, most I'll admit self inflected while others are by outside contributing factors. I think too many want to apply a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Right now China is on a straight path up. But as far as a real empire it's not about how much money and growth you have but how you can influence the world around you and not just for your own interests. The US good/bad/indifferent by it's actions have helped the world reach the highest standard of living the world has seen. There are many factors to being an empire not just wealth an power.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by nenothtu

 

No! What did she say? That is so funny!



[edit on 15-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

She hemmed and hawed for a minute, straightened up some papers, and then got down to the work at hand. I can't say that I blame her. After all, I WAS being a smartass!

Originally posted by manxman2

did the feathers work chief.

I guess SOMETHING tickled her fancy, as I was at full employment by the end of the week.



To be completely fair, I'm only part indian. My mom's family came from Wales a couple of hundred years ago.

The blue eyes must have thrown her off.

Oh, and in the interests of sound foreign policy, international relations, hands across the water and all that, I'll ignore that politically incorrect "chief" remark.





[edit on 2009/10/16 by nenothtu]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I agree with you that throughout history there have always been ups and downs. But isn't it evident that this cycle is being orchestrated? I can't believe that the cycle is naturally occurring. The problem lies in the system of handing out more credit than can ever be returned.

Like I said, most countries have more debt than ever. If we continue the way we have so far then things won't ever get better. I don't specifically blaim the US for all the issues we have but I am absolutely certain that the attitude and influence of the US has not made the world much better as per your claim. You have my attention though, I am eager to hear what they have done for the rest of the world. With this I mean the actions undertaken with the intent of helping / supporting others and not accidental positive influences coming forth out of selfish goals.

reply to post by Mokoman

Have you any idea on the economic and military capacity of the Chinese? Almost 20% of the total population on Earth lives in China. Compared to most capitalist countries, the % of total population who join the military in socialist / communist countries is much higher. I'm sorry my friend but you are wrong. The US is not the strongest, they just wage more war on the world leading you to believe they are. But that's not the issue for me. If we could all see eachother as equals and not strive for superiority then the world would be a better place.

When in history have the Chinese been an aggressive nation? They were conquered once by the Mongols. They endured and repelled the Japanese in WWII. Rarely have they even engaged much in world trade and relations till relatively recently.

To say that they are an eminent, eventual, or major threat to the US is at the very least a stretch and IMHO just unlikely. Because of the recent world recession China is more likely looking at economic collapse in spite of all its US dollars and appearances of prosperity.

In another post:

China is really in more trouble than it appears. They may own a lot of US debt but they have about an equal amount of potentially bad debt internally. The China good old boy system (similar to what the Japanese had/have) has led to lending not based on sound economic principles and incredible amounts of bad debt or about 1/4 of their total GDP. Bad debt can hide in a thriving economy but not in times like now when the world is in relative recession and inventories are piling up. I think of China as a paper tiger, a house of cards. It has too many critical problems that could surface at any time. People always say China has a quarter of the worlds people, bla, bla etc., but those citizens are not all happy campers esp. now.

reply to post by manxman2
Will you (or anyone else from that area) please explain to me how Sharia Law is allowed to operate within the UK? I get that it started slowly, with the Muslim community preferring to settle "disputes" without involving authorities...

"Sharia courts now operate in most larger cities, with different sectarian and ethnic groups operating their own courts that cater to their specific needs according to their traditions," he says. These are based on sharia councils, set up in Britain to help Muslims solve family and personal problems.

Source

But it is evolving into a network of councils and courts that operate outside of the British legal system...

The Islamic Sharia Council also rules on individual cases, primarily in matters of Muslim personal or civil law: divorce, marriage, inheritance and settlement of dowry payments are the most common. However, in the course of my investigation, I discovered how sharia is being used informally within the Muslim community to tackle crime such as gang fights or stabbings, bypassing police and the British court system. A few hardline leaders would like it to be taken even further. One told me that Britain should adopt sharia punishments such as stoning and the chopping off of hands to reduce violent crime.

Source

Now leading to a call by radical Muslim group for a massive rally that calls for elimination of the British legal system and full implementation of Sharia Law...

A RADICAL Muslim group sparked outrage last night as it launched a massive campaign to impose sharia law on Britain.

The fanatical group Islam4UK has ­announced plans to hold a potentially ­incendiary rally in London later this month. And it is calling for a complete upheaval of the British legal system, its officials and ­legislation.

Members have urged Muslims from all over Britain to converge on the capital on October 31 for a procession to demand the full implementation of sharia law.

Source

Maybe it's me, but it seems like the Brits. have some trouble brewing at home and might be wise to focus a little bit of attention in that direction; looking the other way for too long, may not be in the country's best interest, no?

ETA: Ah, I see another thread has been started on this very issue, someone is on the same wave length...

[edit on 16-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by plumranch

When in history have the Chinese been an aggressive nation? They were conquered once by the Mongols. They endured and repelled the Japanese in WWII. Rarely have they even engaged much in world trade and relations till relatively recently.

To say that they are an eminent, eventual, or major threat to the US is at the very least a stretch and IMHO just unlikely. Because of the recent world recession China is more likely looking at economic collapse in spite of all its US dollars and appearances of prosperity.

When did I ever say that China was an aggressor or that they were threathening the US? All I meant to say was that they have military strength that most likely will exceed that of the US. It was merely meant to counter your argument. You obviously have trouble properly interpreting my post.

And regarding your claim of China's economic collapse... their external debt is only a fraction of that of the US. Please show me where you get your info so I can be convinced.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Here's an interesting perspective on that.

Japanese leaders, many demonstrating little concern for the suffering of their own people, had already witnessed U.S. firebombing and often near-total destruction of 64 cities without ending the war.

Your point is well taken - however, at the point where those cities were bombed there were strong indications they were on the point of surrender.

History is not a science - and neither of will know what the situation was truly like. We differ in opinion and interpretation of this period of the war. I feel there were very strong political reasons for the US (NWO) to use the bombs at that point - and few practical reasons.

As many here love to state that China does not bow to foreign pressure I highly doubt they would have happily followed along with the UN sanctions. They have not. One would think that they being N Korea's greatest Allie would have shared the wealth. Why haven't they?

North Korea although has been slapped with sanctions also doesn't like nor want outside influences. Since they chose communism and refused to participate as a lawful member and respectful neighbor they have been blacklisted. They backed the wrong horse and now are a threat not only to the US and her Allies but also to their own former backers. China and now Russia formerly the USSR.

China is indeed abiding by sanctions on NK - they do however supply aid. Recently they intercepted some pathetic 200kg of Vanadium, being smuggled into NK from China and confiscated it - so they are definitely applying sanctions.

North Korea has pursued nuclear weapons - and refuses to roll over and allow its national resources to be plundered by the globalists - nor do they allow the central banks any access. This does not make it rogue - it makes it smart. Iraq didn't pursue nuclear weapons - what happened? in fact - it seems the only way to ensure you don't get invaded is to have nuclear weapons - South Korea became a US vassal - NK didn't want to join up with the NWO. Thats why it is blacklisted.

Its lack of economic success has more to do with its isolation and sanctions rather than political structure.

I am aware of the Juche philosophy - and I would hope people have a good look at it, and understand the principles.

Think about it in terms of freedom - if you are self reliant, able to grow your own food, capture water, generate electricity and have independent thought, especially political - then you are relatively immune from a controlling central agency - or the NWO. Crazy? Or thought provoking?

The personality cult aspect of it I feel is blown far out of proportion due to western propaganda - "NK news reports KJI always has 3 holes in one in every match .. " lalala - maybe this is accurate reporting, maybe we are supposed to get the idea that this guy is an egocentric maniac. I'll let you think about it.

According to Kim Jong-il's On the Juche Idea, the application of Juche in state policy entails the following:

1. The people must have independence (chajusong) in thought and politics, economic self-sufficiency, and self-reliance.

However - communism, or rather a nasty blend of fascism is threatening your own nation - and should you fail to recognize this viper in your own house, and remove its head.

You seem to think that I'm ignorant of such possibilities. As far as this matter you are preaching to the choir. I am as well as many others are more than familiar with this possible scenario.

It has been here since the beginning. Here is some lite reading I think you would find interesting. Enjoy.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the New World Order

AND

Emergency Broadcast - New World Order Ahead!

Thank you for the links - I had the opportunity to read those a while back - but they are good links.

I would not presume to call you ignorant - rather that you have a particular approach, and in my view a misplaced trust in the economic system of the western world - and some idea that consumerism, corporatism and invasion by the central banks is a good idea.

I prefer to think that nations are better off working out a system for themselves - rather than becoming entwined with the central banking vipers.

Being part of the larger western economic system certainly appears to give immediate benefits - but I believe the long term costs to cultural identity and enslavement to a globalist agenda are not worth the short term accumulation of 'shiny beads'. Especially when they are offered at the point of a gun in exchange for rights to a nations natural resources and political identity.

EDIT: I should point out that the brand of corporatism/fascism that is currently being practiced in the west, is a greater threat to humanity than communism - simply because it creates the power to enforce that brand of government. Real capitalism must depend on real money - not money created from nothing by private banks - who intend nothing less than the enslavement of the entire world.

It has been claimed that the US through it's actions has been responsible for over 80 million deaths. I say it's probably closer to 100 million deaths worldwide. That's of course if everybody ignores the fact the Communist nations were responsible for over half those numbers or more.

Still let the US take on the burden of those 100 million or more. Irrelevant. In the same time period the Earths population has gone from 3 billion to well over 6.5 billion a growth which would not have been possible if there wasn't a direct connection to free economic growth, Industrial output coupled with Agricultural expansion tied to free markets.

All of which the US good/bad/indifferent has sometimes I admit dragged the world towards prosperity either kicking and screaming or willfully into the 21st century. You see American lending the Germans and Japanese money for reconstruction as enslaving them. Well if it wasn't for Germany being an economic powerhouse right now the EU would be hurting something fierce.

With out Japans recent contribution to high technology we would be probably mailing out responses through the postal services.

Shall we talk of the future? Before we begin let's gain an understanding of each others perspectives. Here are mine. Enjoy.


The New Great Game

AND

Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!

I have previously had the pleasure of reading both of these excellent threads. It was a little while ago - so I might go refresh myself again.

I think that the fundamental thing that we differ here in Slayer - is the perceived benefits.

Where you see economic growth, industrialization and implementation of the western financial system as positives - I see them as incredibly damaging to those nations that were forced to accept those models.

The problem is that we will never be able to see what the alternative outcome would have been without intervention - and com paring to nations such as NK is extremely unfair, as NK has suffered sanctions and is extremely isolationist.

I do NOT believe that the western brand of corporatism/consumerism is the great thing that you expound it to be. To me it has done irreparable harm both culturally and economically - not necessarily in the regions where it has been enshrined - but in those places which have been exploited to sustain its unrealistic rate of consumption.

The western model is a basis for the enslavement of third world countries, and finally for all nations - as the capacity for debt expansion hits its theoretical limit.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by manxman2

did the feathers work chief.

I guess SOMETHING tickled her fancy, as I was at full employment by the end of the week.

To be completely fair, I'm only part indian. My mom's family came from Wales a couple of hundred years ago.

The blue eyes must have thrown her off.

Oh, and in the interests of sound foreign policy, international relations, hands across the water and all that, I'll ignore that politically incorrect "chief" remark.

[edit on 2009/10/16 by nenothtu]

ok i will try to be more politcally positve taffy .. or is that mr tworivers.

the truth is the brits still see america as their child.

thats the bond that will never be broken as mostly your british genes living abroad.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by manxman2

 

Will you (or anyone else from that area) please explain to me how Sharia Law is allowed to operate within the UK? I get that it started slowly, with the Muslim community preferring to settle "disputes" without involving authorities...

"Sharia courts now operate in most larger cities, with different sectarian and ethnic groups operating their own courts that cater to their specific needs according to their traditions," he says. These are based on sharia councils, set up in Britain to help Muslims solve family and personal problems.

Source

But it is evolving into a network of councils and courts that operate outside of the British legal system...

The Islamic Sharia Council also rules on individual cases, primarily in matters of Muslim personal or civil law: divorce, marriage, inheritance and settlement of dowry payments are the most common. However, in the course of my investigation, I discovered how sharia is being used informally within the Muslim community to tackle crime such as gang fights or stabbings, bypassing police and the British court system. A few hardline leaders would like it to be taken even further. One told me that Britain should adopt sharia punishments such as stoning and the chopping off of hands to reduce violent crime.

Source

Now leading to a call by radical Muslim group for a massive rally that calls for elimination of the British legal system and full implementation of Sharia Law...

A RADICAL Muslim group sparked outrage last night as it launched a massive campaign to impose sharia law on Britain.

The fanatical group Islam4UK has ­announced plans to hold a potentially ­incendiary rally in London later this month. And it is calling for a complete upheaval of the British legal system, its officials and ­legislation.

Members have urged Muslims from all over Britain to converge on the capital on October 31 for a procession to demand the full implementation of sharia law.

Source

Maybe it's me, but it seems like the Brits. have some trouble brewing at home and might be wise to focus a little bit of attention in that direction; looking the other way for too long, may not be in the country's best interest, no?

ETA: Ah, I see another thread has been started on this very issue, someone is on the same wave length...

[edit on 16-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

i dont live in britain lady.

i live on the isle of man and we dont have a muslim community.
we without doubt have muslims here but they keep a low profile as they will be on work permits .. any trouble and the work permits get revoked and they get booted of the island.

the government bends over backwards to be politically correct etc mind.

see its our island and a thousand years of self rule has kept us real.

none of this open borders stuff .. look after your own and share the excess is the new black.


your average working class man in britain is just about had his fill of new labours multicultural bullshipt now.

once the genie is out of the bottle theres no putting it back .. cannot shut opposition up now with immediate accusations of racism
as mps are openly discussing the overcrowding now.

and besides they have an alternate new buzz word of their own !!reverse racism!! thats what it is called not to be aloud to openly discuss the topic.







[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

reply to post by manxman2


Yes, it seems like a beautiful island. Given that Britain does not consider the island part of UK, but does retain power to legislate it, I would think that UK politics would be of interest and concern since whatever future political instability in Britain may be felt directly... How much does British politics actually affect it? And should something drastic take place in Britain, what then?





[edit on 16-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

Yes, it seems like a beautiful island. Given that Britain does not consider the island part of UK, but does retain power to legislate it

no they cannot even legislate themselves now .. we are both
legislated to by europe. our parliment is called tynwald and again contrary to your belief britian plays absolutely no part in our islands legislation.

as for what happens to them if it all turns to crap who cares.
just as long as they dont head here with their feral off-spring we already have enough of them.

no since obama kicked up a fuss about off-shore banking etc britain is cutting all ties with us .. its only a matter of time.

the common purse agreement has just been recinded which is fine by me i didnt like paying them 17.5% vat on everything i bought.

bit of a pisser for our government tho as its blown a big hole in their figures. .. they will have to raise the funds some otherway now.

theres no company taxation here. and 10% flat rate for everyone else.

so looks like the funds will be raised against all the company money funnelled here from mainland/overseas so its tax free eventually .. now they will have to pay alittle slice of it over.


i think all societies should be based on a tax free basis for working people and companies taxed.

but to be honest i dont really care i am 52 now semi retired
and financially sorted. .. i only take on work that interests me now.

quite a catch really hint hint.







[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

Originally posted by Mokoman
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I agree with you that throughout history there have always been ups and downs. But isn't it evident that this cycle is being orchestrated? I can't believe that the cycle is naturally occurring. The problem lies in the system of handing out more credit than can ever be returned.

I understand the confusion. Lets put it this way....

In one way, shape or form the US has helped.

A. Rebuild Europe. Paving the way for the EU. Which has it's longest period of peace and prosperity in recent history. We are still stationed in Germany. Mostly paid for by the US tax payer.

B. The US/Allies stood eye to eye against the communist. The Soviet Union is gone and China is now capitalists. I don't see too many of them running around with the little red book do you? I see 3 piece suits and a check book. Mostly paid for by the US consumer buying their products and services.

C. Go back through the last 80 or 90 years and take note of all previous recessions. Every 8 to 12 years there is a contraction. Followed by growth beyond the previous height during the last expansion followed again by a contraction. [Rescission]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c0c7547c58e1.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/89bd6f03879b.png[/atsimg]

Like I said, most countries have more debt than ever. If we continue the way we have so far then things won't ever get better. I don't specifically blaim the US for all the issues we have but I am absolutely certain that the attitude and influence of the US has not made the world much better as per your claim.

We are headed once again towards a multi-polar world just like what we had before the end of WWII. History does repeat itself. Since the end of WWII there have only been low level regional conflicts. Mainly the US and the Soviets fighting "Proxies wars" Well for the most part the Soviets fought theirs through proxies. We on the other hand did most [not all] but most of ours with our own blood. Korea and Vietnam. In that time period and since there have been no major global conflicts on the scale of the preceding 100 years.

You have my attention though, I am eager to hear what they have done for the rest of the world. With this I mean the actions undertaken with the intent of helping / supporting others and not accidental positive influences coming forth out of selfish goals.

Accidental? There is no point in discussing anything further if that's the extent of your interests.

As far as foreign aid goes.
Here is what many at ATS like to show as the extent of foreign aid to the world.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/be55a847f0dd.jpg[/atsimg]

However when we look at actual worth of those contributions,
it reveals a whole other story.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/70389b755759.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1beef4228657.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 17-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

your last 2 graphs are equally deceptive as the top 2.

all those countries together wouldnt be much over 300 million people.

all your graphs show is that european and commonwealth nations give away a higher percentage of the gdp they generate per capita.

a closer comparison would be america by each state with the same population as a country.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]

reply to post by manxman2




OOPS!

I forgot the link.
It's all here. Enjoy


United States of America, Charity, Foreign Aid, and a Comparison to the World

It took quite a bit of searching to find a reputable source that provides both government foreign aid and private contributions, but GlobalIssues.org seems to have it down. The only problem is that they created a chart solely for government aid, then added the statistics of private charity right below it. Here are some integrated charts including the private aid statistics along with government foreign aid in 2007:

Government Foreign Aid, in Total Dollars:

Originally posted by SLAYER69

In one way, shape or form the US has helped.

A. Rebuild Europe. Paving the way for the EU. Which has it's longest period of peace and prosperity in recent history. We are still stationed in Germany. Mostly paid for by the US tax payer.

Rebuild Europe - paving the way for the EU .. can you hear yourself? It's like you are saying the EU is a good thing? Do you believe that?

B. The US/Allies stood eye to eye against the communist. The Soviet Union is gone and China is now capitalists. I don't see too many of them running around with the little red book do you? I see 3 piece suits and a check book. Mostly paid for by the US tax payer.

I would like some clarification of what exactly was paid for by the US taxpayer here?

If you mean China's growth - nope that was paid for by Chinese workers.

Certainly the US campaign against the USSR - political, and espionage was successful - but the system was unsustainable - it was a rotten, top down model that relied on brutality and murder.

You should also rightfully claim responsibility for Chernobyl - which was 99% likely due to US espionage.

C. Go back through the last 80 or 90 years and take note of all previous recessions. Every 8 to 12 years there is a contraction. Followed by growth beyond the previous height during the last expansion followed again by a contraction. [Rescission]

This is the so called business cycle - its mainly due to the fiat monetary system and usury (interest). It is something that needs to be eliminated and replaced with real money - we are going to have a collapse very likely soon - if we can use it to replace fiat with gold and silver, then we win. If we accept IMF SDR's and other fiat alternatives - then we lose.

We are headed once again towards a multi-polar world just like what we had before the end of WWII. History does repeat itself. Since the end of WWII there have only been low level regional conflicts. Mainly the US and the Soviets fighting "Proxies wars" Well for the most part the Soviets fought theirs through proxies. We on the other hand did most [not all] but most of ours with our own blood. Korea and Vietnam. In that time period and since there have been no major global conflicts on the scale of the preceding 100 years.

These conflicts were mostly imperialistic US aggression - for profit, and to protect corporate interests.

However when we look at actual worth of those contributions,
it reveals a whole other story.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/70389b755759.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1beef4228657.jpg[/atsimg]

This idea that "aid" is a benefit is .. not quite right. Surely you know why and how aid is administered?

It is either as bribery - to adjust local laws for the benefit of corporations - or as infrastructure projects - again to benefit corporations - or it is possibly arming of insurgents, or rebels to overthrow regimes unsympathetic to corporate interests.

Of course some of that money is spent to give an appearance of helping - that is called bribing the locals to go along with being raped by the corporations.

That you would be proud of the 'aid' figures is .. I don't know - I respect your diligence with respect to your posts - but I certainly don't think that figure is anything to be proud of.

reply to post by SLAYER69

In one way, shape or form the US has helped.

A. Rebuild Europe. Paving the way for the EU. Which has it's longest period of peace and prosperity in recent history. We are still stationed in Germany. Mostly paid for by the US tax payer.

The EU is the worst thing that happened to Europe. I'm an EU citizen btw.
Longest period of peace and prosperity? Within the EU perhaps, but we have had full scale war with ethnic cleansing in Europe quite recently. Or does Bosnia not ring a bell? Not only is this just around the corner from my home, I have served 2 tours in Bosnia and one in Kosovo, the latest in 1999. Don't talk to me about peace please, this is a new concept in Europe introduced in 2001. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
I have been on the US bases in Brunssum, NL and Munich GE. Their purpose is mainly to repair damaged vehicles that come back from the Balkan or Middle East / Afghanistan. Don't make it appear as if you have a presence for peaceful purposes or to help us out with anything. It's for your own needs, not to help others.

B. The US/Allies stood eye to eye against the communist. The Soviet Union is gone and China is now capitalists. I don't see too many of them running around with the little red book do you? I see 3 piece suits and a check book. Mostly paid for by the US tax payer.

US tax payer is responsible for China's success? Lol... just lol
Besides, us Europeans never had an issue with the Russians / Communists / Reds or whatever names you have for them. YOU were the ones with the conflict. They were no threat to us. It was a showdown of masculinity between the US and USSR. They had no intention of threathening Europe. Just because you guys were threathened you made it appear as if they were going to destroy the world. US had an equal part in that conflict as the USSR did.
Don't be playing the good samaritan with me. Take WWII for example. You didn't jump in out of good will to help us fight the Germans, you joined because the Japs attacked you in Pearl. It was just convenient for us that you did, the intent was not to free Europe, you would have gladly kept your hands clean if you could.

C. Go back through the last 80 or 90 years and take note of all previous recessions. Every 8 to 12 years there is a contraction. Followed by growth beyond the previous height during the last expansion followed again by a contraction.

I already confirmed that I am aware of the ups and downs in the Economic climate, as well as stated my concerns regarding the cause.

My apologies if this post seems like an act of aggression but apparently you really believe that the US did such great things for the world and that we all should be very greatful. Which brings me back to my very first post in this thread where I said that the only people in the world who believe out of free will that the US has special status (as the topic originally was about) are US citizens. You're the victim of your own propaganda my friend.

I don't blame you, that's just the way it is.

Originally posted by Amagnon
Where you see economic growth, industrialization and implementation of the western financial system as positives - I see them as incredibly damaging to those nations that were forced to accept those models.

The problem is that we will never be able to see what the alternative outcome would have been without intervention - and com paring to nations such as NK is extremely unfair, as NK has suffered sanctions and is extremely isolationist.

I do NOT believe that the western brand of corporatism/consumerism is the great thing that you expound it to be. To me it has done irreparable harm both culturally and economically

Yeah I see what you mean. Here are some of our WWII/Cold war rivals today. They all have enjoyed expansion and prosperity. One way, shape or form the US has helped the world. Either through direct Military intervention, Economic cooperation, Political persuasions or through American cultural influences. Yeah I can see the irreparable harm the US has had on the world. We are headed for a global economy some fear a NWO. I can understand the fear.

But are we? Enjoy
NWO or Type 1 Civilization?

Hiroshima

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/da585db1badc.jpg[/atsimg]

Nagasaki

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/10e7fba976c4.jpg[/atsimg]

Tokyo

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/08cf0df1f01d.jpg[/atsimg]

Berlin

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2713a0cec3c3.jpg[/atsimg]

Seoul

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/34f122dc176d.jpg[/atsimg]

Vietnam

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e9c080eb95e.jpg[/atsimg]

Beijing

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/257aa8e48002.jpg[/atsimg]

Moscow

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ef15fce2aadc.jpg[/atsimg]

Saudi Arabia

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dcb284c2a0ca.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 16-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

so your crediting the states with biulding those cities yes...??

and no-one is saying the states has not done some good deeds we all have .. your greed knows no bounderies however.

you cannot erradicate the site of the pics of mutilatated children from peoples minds with a few nice shinney office block pictures not to us europeans we get to witness the unsanitised version of events you do not see.

and your reply just shows how far adrift you are on the sentiment of the discussion.
we are talking death and destruction by u.s. munitions .. and your talking money .. why because your whole sense of worth is wrapped up in money .. you are who you are judged in the pecking order of life by how much you earn. .. and so thats where your focus is.

you dont really care about iraqis or afghans do you..??





[edit on 16-10-2009 by manxman2]