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Originally posted by justamomma
Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma
lol, if that's the case I suppose so.
If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.
The Jewish view is fairly simple really. Whether superstitious or not, the afterlife is not our focus. We don't believe in hell other than what we are creating here on earth as mankind. The concept of heaven, I would agree with Jesus in his esoteric view, as do most Jews. It is an inner state of peace. Then, of course, it is important to contribute to heaven here on earth by trying to shed light to those still in the dark (ignorance).
As far as what our Scriptures teach about afterlife, there is none (not that we know of anyway .... and why pretend that we do?). Ecclesiastes 3:19,20; Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10; Psalm 146:3,4 ... we all die and we all go to the same place: the grave; Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic .. it doesn't matter what you subscribe to while on earth in light of death. It only matters, thus the importance, for the generations that follow. The here and now is where we are and so why focus on what we can't know .. that is what comes with death .... most likely it is nothing.
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma
lol, if that's the case I suppose so.
If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.
Hum.. I don't really know the jewish dogma that well. And it isn't something I care to investigate. Your ex-high priests spun that for you all from waaaaay back when.
And actually, what I see is that the NWO bunch have used and abused your people since before there even was written history. If I would you, I would reaaaaaalllllllllly hate the illuminati aka NWO bunch with a passion.
For example, when Jerusalem fell in 60 AD or so, they basically abandoned you all to your fate and headed off to Europe, although they aren't above still using you when they can, like in the holocaust, for example. They are really evil, that bunch.
[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]
Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
So essentially what I am saying is if you really think Heaven and Hell are real, Open your eyes!
And allow me to say...with a diferent point of view...You sir, open your eyes, and see better where you live!
I don't know nothing about the Even, but IMO where we live is a perfect Hell!!
Sadly the human race have envolved and especialized in selfish ways where we just avoid or ignore "the evilness" that every day happens next door, or some where else.
We all here present, as the humanity itself allow every day that horrendous acts of evil can be executed every where. because we all hidde behind several personal excuses like..."It's not my problem...; I am impotent to do what ever...; Etc.
And the world still spinning in a ocean of evilness every day, growing & growing! Untill some day we all will perish drawned in a flood of it.
Maybe that day something can really be learned by Humans!!
[edit on 3/10/09 by Umbra Sideralis]
Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by DragonriderGal
There are some who believe in reincarnation. It sounds to me like you just want others to believe you *know.* Anyone who does is as ignorant as the next person who claims that all those who don't believe in a demigod are going to hell.
We don't concentrate on the "afterlife" because what we create today will be the effects tomorrow that our children will have to deal with. Even if reincarnation were proved to be true, then what we cause today will be the effects YOU will have to deal with tomorrow. Either way, we are right in that today is what we are given and today is where we should focus.
Originally posted by justamomma
Of course you don't want to know. Then it could burst your little fantasy here that you have a clue of what you are speaking of. Clearly you do not.
By the way, the Romans set fire to Jerusalem in 70 AD. And we, as a People, are back in our land. You sound a bit threatened to know anything of our People or our history. Would that be due to jealousy?
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Like I said 60AD or so...... 70AD is pretty close, close enough for me anyway, when we are talking 2,000 years.
Well good for you all. Even though your ex high priests used America to get you back there. *rolls eyes*
I know enough about you all's history. That is in the racial/collective unconscious. I just don't care enough to try to dig out the memories of people who studied your dogma out to see what they 'knew' about your dogma.
And no. Not jealous at all.
Originally posted by justamomma
Given your claims of memory, it seems you should know these things.
Of course you aren't.
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Considering how blind and deaf we are to the spirit realm, it isn't unusual (and trust me, the NWO bunch have really emphasized this uncertainty because it leaves us so lost and floundering) that no one feels they can be certain about what happens after death and all that. If you hook up to the racial unconscious in a conscious way, a lot of that confusion disappears. Now my interpretation of the information of course goes thru my own filters so there is always room for error, but in general, the whole past life thing is is pretty much a given, from all I see out there.
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
My connection to the racial/collective unconscious is from my left brain, to my right brain thu my unconscious into the racial unconscious. Left brain stuff gets lost pretty easy in that process.
Nope. I would not want to have to walk the road you guys are going to. The elves are pretty pissed with the NWO bunch, and I don't think they are going to be all that merciful with any that are directly connected to them either, plus you all have had the thought police on your cases for millinia. Man, that woulda sucked!
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Originally posted by the siren
To the OP, I suggest laying of the peyote
I guessing you meant lay OFF the peyote? Sorry but I don't do any kind of drugs other than an occasional Marguerite. This is all coming thru my connection to the racial unconscious.
But thanks for your concern.
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
I know enough about you all's history.
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Hum.. I don't really know the jewish dogma that well. And it isn't something I care to investigate.
Originally posted by justamomma
I think I have learned enough to know this won't be going anywhere.
Originally posted by theartofzazen
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Considering how blind and deaf we are to the spirit realm, it isn't unusual (and trust me, the NWO bunch have really emphasized this uncertainty because it leaves us so lost and floundering) that no one feels they can be certain about what happens after death and all that. If you hook up to the racial unconscious in a conscious way, a lot of that confusion disappears. Now my interpretation of the information of course goes thru my own filters so there is always room for error, but in general, the whole past life thing is is pretty much a given, from all I see out there.
You make a good point, and I have definitely thought about that. I just wonder if we really can truly rid ourselves of the inherent bias that we have.
Originally posted by justamomma
Not a valid defense for your claims ya know.
No need to worry about us. We don't live in your fantasies. Thank you for taking the time to address my replies. I think I have learned enough to know this won't be going anywhere.
Originally posted by the siren
Yes I meant 'off'. Mine was a typo but what's your excuse for this?
I wouldn't dismiss Judaism so quickly because, if you believe in reincarnation, you might just come back as one.
Originally posted by smsjogren
People follow religions because it makes them feel good.
Originally posted by smsjogren
Alright, I've got two more cents to add to the mix.
First off, to everyone who's been posting about how we live in a 'hell on earth' already, I'm afraid that even if you believe it is hell, it is the only outcome that could exist. Creatures, including man, are self-serving. The only reason we make the earth worse is because it makes the people doing so better. Men aren't evil. Killers don't kill because they WANT to do bad things, it's because their damaged psyche feels better when they do it.
People follow religions because it makes them feel good. Man has emotional and mental needs, seperating us from most of the other creatures on earth, so they not only eat, drink, find shelter, and reproduce for their physical needs, they must also satisfy their emotional and mental needs.
People who are in power feel good about the power they have, even if it pollutes or causes war. In the same fashion, people who protest these things want to feel good, and they feel good about protecting their home. Man is self-serving, and those in power are usually there by material means, which is more important to the average man than 'tree hug-feel good' means, therefore, the earth will be polluted and warred upon until we destroy ourselves. When that happens, I will neither cry nor laugh because it's the ONLY possible outcome of our existence. I will also neither cry nor laugh because I'll probably be dead, too.
Number two, specifically for dragonridergal, is on the subject of enlightenment. How, in the name of all that is sacred and holy*, can man be anywhere near enlightenment? For all of humanity to reach enlightenment, then surely by now I would have met even one person who I believed could reach an 'enlightened' status. To quote Henry Fonda in My Name is Nobody, "I've met all kinds in my life. Thieves and killers. Pimps and prostitutes. Con men and preachers. Even a few fellas that told the truth. The kind of man you're talking about, never." It would take thousands of years more, and I'm pretty sure we will destroy ourselves before that happens. This is assuming the NWO doesn't win this 'wager.'
*Sorry for the phrase, I figure you'll just laugh at 'sacred and holy,' but I figure that since words only have the power we give them, I'll use the phrases that intimate the feeling best.
Also, again, my perspective of assuming you are creating an interesting, theoretical fiction, I think you lose credibility attacking the Jews. Everyone attacks the Jews, it's not very original. I don't see why you would decided the Jews need to go around the block a few more times to get things right. You don't need to reply to this paragraph, because it is speaking solely from my skeptic side, and doesn't need to be defended against.