There is NO heaven OR Hell.

Originally posted by slymattb
I make this reply again. There is a heaven and hell. God and Christ are coming. Life after death is a big gamble. And where you spend it is your choice.

And I will make this reply again. If you want to believe the NWO's heavily spun version of what comes after we die, knock yourself out. I know I will reincarnate, just as I remember reincarnating many times before. No gamble at all.

I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything said in the original post.. aspects that i have believed quite strongly for a number of years.. religion is absolutely man made for the exact reasons mentioned here.. control, programming, keeping the human race obedient through all the known 'rules'..commandments of christianity for example..guilt is also used to strongly keep people in line, to make us feel shame and guilt for our actions..anger is a natural emotional state..it does need to be controlled by individual self of course but its there for a reason..the Elites are most happy with the mass populace living life with the victim mentality.. be a victim, dont fight back, dont stand up for yourself or loved ones. cower and forgive even that which is unforgivable.. All religion and their 'holy' texts, i strongly believe were created in the earlier days of our enslavement on this planet to segregate people, to cause bias and arguments between the different belief systems to put us at a war with our own species..to keep us from uniting and becoming the powerful beings we can be.. that we should be..people need to start thinking for themselves, do not let anyone do your thinking for your or tell you what to think.. we all were given our own minds and souls for a reason!!

i'd like to add some quotes from the movie the kingdom of heaven that sum up my opinion of after life and morality in regards to religion.

A king may move a man, a father may claim a son. But remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God you cannot say "but I was told by others to do thus" or that "virtue was not convinient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that.

I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here (points to Balian's head) and here (points to Balian's heart) and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.

The last one is in regard to not following scripture when they burn the dead during the siege.

God will understand, my lord. And if he doesn't, then he is not God and we need not worry.

Wikiquote

Originally posted by Full_Vision
I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything said in the original post.. aspects that i have believed quite strongly for a number of years.. religion is absolutely man made for the exact reasons mentioned here.. control, programming, keeping the human race obedient through all the known 'rules'..commandments of christianity for example..guilt is also used to strongly keep people in line, to make us feel shame and guilt for our actions..anger is a natural emotional state..it does need to be controlled by individual self of course but its there for a reason..the Elites are most happy with the mass populace living life with the victim mentality.. be a victim, dont fight back, dont stand up for yourself or loved ones. cower and forgive even that which is unforgivable.. All religion and their 'holy' texts, i strongly believe were created in the earlier days of our enslavement on this planet to segregate people, to cause bias and arguments between the different belief systems to put us at a war with our own species..to keep us from uniting and becoming the powerful beings we can be.. that we should be..people need to start thinking for themselves, do not let anyone do your thinking for your or tell you what to think.. we all were given our own minds and souls for a reason!!

Exactly what I see, although much better condensed! *lol*

And if you remember part of the NWO's agenda has always been the reduction of the human population, then you can also add another reason to why we are encouraged to fight over religion and other such nonsense. War kills a lot of people, always a good thing in the NWO's eyes.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by RokNinja
i'd like to add some quotes from the movie the kingdom of heaven that sum up my opinion of after life and morality in regards to religion.

A king may move a man, a father may claim a son. But remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God you cannot say "but I was told by others to do thus" or that "virtue was not convinient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that.

I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here (points to Balian's head) and here (points to Balian's heart) and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.

The last one is in regard to not following scripture when they burn the dead during the siege.

God will understand, my lord. And if he doesn't, then he is not God and we need not worry.

Wikiquote

I like the idea of following one's heart. In my opinion that is our connection to the racial unconscious and our higher selves, and yes, that is learning to be the best and truest self you can be. But the 'god' we stand before will be our highest self. Considering how hard most people are on themselves, I think most would prefer an external judge, eh?

Defending those who can't defend themselves has limited value though. Do you prevent them from learning to take care of themselves every time you 'rescue' them? In psychological terms that usually comes up as 'enabling'.

Interesting article, thank you for sharing it with us. I have a few questions if you do not mind answering them.

Does this group of Shamans believe in a Creator, somebody who has given us the ability to reincarnate into new bodies and lives?

Do these Shamans believe in God or gods of some sort? If not, how do they explain the transformation or process of reincarnation? Do we all get reincarnated by random chance? When is it decided that we do not need to reincarnate any more?

How come this older Indian dude you communicated with wasn't reincarnated form his most recent life but instead was allowed, permitted or randomly landed up in this Upper Realm?

I think this may be hell, here on earth, most peoples lifes are ruined by scum, and most of us cannot live in peace and quiet.

I think you already live in hell, just that you are mostly beastly and cannot see, the trash that humans are.

reply to post by DragonriderGal


No Heaven and no Hell? No Universe and no hot Core inside the planet? Get real! God and the "sons of God" were/are extra terrestrials, the Sumerian Annunaki were the "star travellers". And you don't have to dig far until you break the thin "shell" of the earth, before you reach magma, floating, sulferous, molten rock. How on earth can you dismiss the universe and magma/lava?

[edit on 8/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

No Heaven and no Hell? No Universe and no hot Core inside the planet? Get real! God and the "sons of God" were/are extra terrestrials, the Sumerian Annunaki were the "star travellers". And you don't have to dig far until you break the thin "shell" of the earth, before you reach magma, floating, sulferous, molten rock. How on earth can you dismiss the universe and magma/lava?

[edit on 8/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Hum. And the universe and the hot core of the planet have what to do with the NWO's spun control tools Heaven and Hell?

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Interesting article, thank you for sharing it with us. I have a few questions if you do not mind answering them.

Not at all, if I see answers for them.

Does this group of Shamans believe in a Creator, somebody who has given us the ability to reincarnate into new bodies and lives?

The gal I did the journey with was trained by a Sioux elder. And from what I can tell, It was based out of the traditional native American spiritual beliefs, and they didn't believe in reincarnation, from my recollection.

Do these Shamans believe in God or gods of some sort? If not, how do they explain the transformation or process of reincarnation? Do we all get reincarnated by random chance? When is it decided that we do not need to reincarnate any more?

They believed in the great spirit, as I recall. But during my exploration of that set of spiritual beliefs, I never did encounter the concept of reincarnation. They might, but it wasn't a part of the usual stuff conveyed to those studying it.

The journey itself was just a gateway to accessing the higher plane, though. The concept of shaman journey isn't specific to this gal though. You could probably find out more by studying the native American spiritual beliefs. And once we make enlightenment, the whole dying thing will be done with, so at that point, yah, for sure we will stop reincarnating.

How come this older Indian dude you communicated with wasn't reincarnated form his most recent life but instead was allowed, permitted or randomly landed up in this Upper Realm?

The old indian fellow is there on guard duty. I think he is actually an aspect of the overarching sentience of humanity, not really an individual.


[edit on 8-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

reply to post by DragonriderGal


How do you classify enlightenment??? How do we obtain this enlightenment?? Could you give more information on this.

Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

How do you classify enlightenment??? How do we obtain this enlightenment?? Could you give more information on this.

I think I will create a thread about this. That way I won't have to keep typing the info over and over. So keep an eye out for it! I am probably going to put it under Predictions? Any other ideas from any one where such a thread would be best suited? Thanks!

Opps... double post!

[edit on 9-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

How do you classify enlightenment??? How do we obtain this enlightenment?? Could you give more information on this.

I think I will create a thread about this. That way I won't have to keep typing the info over and over. So keep an eye out for it! I am probably going to put it under Predictions? Any other ideas from any one where such a thread would be best suited? Thanks!

Good idea! Predictions is an okay forum to post it in, but seeing as it's related to self-improvement, it would also fit quite well in the psychology/metaphysics section!

Originally posted by VergeofObscene

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

How do you classify enlightenment??? How do we obtain this enlightenment?? Could you give more information on this.

I think I will create a thread about this. That way I won't have to keep typing the info over and over. So keep an eye out for it! I am probably going to put it under Predictions? Any other ideas from any one where such a thread would be best suited? Thanks!

Good idea! Predictions is an okay forum to post it in, but seeing as it's related to self-improvement, it would also fit quite well in the psychology/metaphysics section!

Yes, those two were exactly the ones I was trying to decide between. I think I will go with the psychology/metaphysics one. It seems a broader catagory! Thanks VoO!

reply to post by Karilla

Heaven and Hell were not such well-defined ideas in early Christian theology. The idea of reincarnation leading up to the day of judgement was not fully exised from biblical texts until the middle ages, but it first began to go out of favour with the Romans.

Agreed, seems like the OP has taken a topic that's been done to death on ATS and added his own twist to it like magic animals and I got the info from some invisible guides. Meds all round eh

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by Karilla

 

Heaven and Hell were not such well-defined ideas in early Christian theology. The idea of reincarnation leading up to the day of judgement was not fully exised from biblical texts until the middle ages, but it first began to go out of favour with the Romans.

Agreed, seems like the OP has taken a topic that's been done to death on ATS and added his own twist to it like magic animals and I got the info from some invisible guides. Meds all round eh

Hum.. not quite sure what part of DragonriderGAL is a him.. but hey, some people just don't read that thoroughly, I guess.

And I only say what I see in the racial unconscious. No invisible guides, no magic animals. Never taken any drug stronger than aspirin or a very occasional margarita. I just see the history of the world as is contained in the racial unconscious where the NWO bunch can't tamper with it. IF you think for even a minute, the 'history' of the world is what is written in our 'history' books, then you are pretty naive.

As is said, the winner is the one who writes the history... or in this case a group of ex- (and still a few current) aliens, named the Jue-sah aka Jews (current 'face' organization is the NWO) have been adjusting it since nearly the beginning of our sentience, all the better to control and enslave us. One of their greatest tricks has been to make themselves seem just a conspiracy theory, btw...

Of course, they have been at it for over 300,000 years so I would hope they could do something right. They have failed to enslave us thus far, with a few exceptions like the dark ages, but we always manage to win free of their chains. Luckily they are really pretty stupid; they've only suceeded as much as they have because they have been at it for sooooooooo long.

And all the religions of this world are control tools created by the NWO bunch, including Christianity and it's major elements meant to scare us into obeying their 'instruction manual' (aka the bible) to get to 'heaven' and to avoid 'hell', both of which are simply made up places. The NWO bunch have the 'demons' working for them and their world is pretty nasty in places, and since the 'demon' aliens are a silicon based life form, they can stand around in flames and stuff and it doesn't bother them.

So the NWO bunch just had some 'demons' take guys like Dante over to their world in another dimension, and show them around the nastier parts filled with some captured humans being tormented. Voila... Hell. And the higher plane has a heaven like quality to it, so we can all sense there might be something good after we die, because many times we pass thru there on our way to our next life. But it isn't heaven, and you don't stay there for all that long; it's just sort of a pit stop on your way.

There is a Heaven, we call it outer space these days. As for Hell, I can't physically place it so I would say that it's used most likely as a fear tactic to get us to listen. It's hot in some theory's and freezing in others so it's represented as seriously painful. No one wants pain, so you listen and behave.

When I die I can only hope that you can leave this planet and go out into Heaven (space). That's cool enough for me.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
There is a Heaven, we call it outer space these days. As for Hell, I can't physically place it so I would say that it's used most likely as a fear tactic to get us to listen. It's hot in some theory's and freezing in others so it's represented as seriously painful. No one wants pain, so you listen and behave.

When I die I can only hope that you can leave this planet and go out into Heaven (space). That's cool enough for me.

Actually the higher plane resides in the spirit realm.. not up nor down.. just sort of a slight shift out of this 'reality', but still connected. The way I see it is like those diagrams of the human body; you start out with the basic shape, and then clear layer by layer, the organs are added, the blood system is added and so on. That is what seeing into the spirit realm is like for me. It's like a layer on top of what is seen by the eye. If you look in a rather unfocused way with the awareness that it is there, you can see it kind of sitting on top of what you can actually see. Some people see it much more clearly I think, but it does get clearer with practice.

But you are right about the Hell concept being about controlling people by their fear of pain. I mean what is more scary than the thought of everlasting excruciating pain??? And since we are so blinded to what happens after we die (and we are the only alien species to be so blinded; every body else knows you just reincarnate) we can be so easily convinced by anyone who claims to 'know'. if they can spin a good enough story and/or scare us badly enough into believing.

reply to post by DragonriderGal
Hell and Hades, for starters, they represent two different languages that elude to the same place. But, where exactly is Hades/Hell? Do you really want to know? Will you understand?
We are in what is called a PLANETARY CONFIGURATION it looks like so:
Mercury - Venus - EARTH -Mars - Jupiter - Saturn - Uranus - Neptune - Pluto OR 2 - earth - 6. Are you with me so far? Okay the numbers look like so 2 - 1 - 6. (more on 216 later), okay now, you count from left to rignt and from right to left....ending with EARTH, so, when you count from left to right EARTH is #3, and from right to left EARTH is #7, so EARTH has the number 37. Now for the two languages (Hell & Hades)
H = 8, A = 1,D = 4, E=5, S=19 = 37. H=8, E=5, L=12, L=12 = 37. Hell & Hades & Earth all = 37.
37, do you see 3-7's, of course you don't, 3x7=21, Now do you see 3 - 7's, of course not. 21x37= 7 7 7.
Now do you see 3 - 7's, of course you do. Now for the 216 number. Why is our Planetary Configuration made up in a 2 - EARTH - 6 (216) pattern? Because 6x6x6=216. There is truth in wine they say, but real truth comes from SIMPLE MATHEMATICS, like so: 111-222-333-444-555-666-777-888-999, are you ready to really
LEARN something that has been right in front of your eyes since you were born?