It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by PSUSA
reply to post by DragonriderGal
As far as I can tell christian counseling is one of the biggest oxymorons ever to exist. How can you have any kind of personal self esteem and healing if at the very heart of your religious belief you are, from birth, SO flawed 'god' had to send his 'only son' to die so that 'god' could love you again. Sheesh. What a load of horse pucky.
It is that. It's also what they teach. It's the difference between doctrines and scriptures. They hate the scriptures because it exposes the errors of their doctrines.
And really, trying to make yourself believe this mishmash manipulation is what makes one weak and sick. Once I quit trying to pretend I could even come close to living such a false and suppressed life, I got a lot healthier!
Your quoted point does bring up a scripture you will never hear taught correctly in a church.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Look at how it is translated elsewhere in Jeremiah.
www.biblestudytools.com...
It's not wicked, it's sick, weak. But they do want you to believe you and I are wicked. We were born this way. I dont believe any of us asked for this.
And the reason you can't reconcile the OT and the NT god is because they don't belong together. That attachment of the jewish part of the 'bible' was just to make the christians feel like they were somehow obligated to the NWO bunch/ex-high priests of Israel.
I agree. Good point. They succeeded to a large extent. So-called "christian zionism" (The ULTIMATE oxymoron, IMO) is extremely popular.
I can't really identify with all of your stated beliefs, but we agree on some major points. And it's refreshing to discuss these things honestly. Doing this is rare. Really really rare. Usually discussions on religion degenerate quickly.
Originally posted by redgy
maybe there is no heaven or hell, but being somewhat christian I would like to go to this large tree in the green grassy fields where the children and animals can talk and play with each other, where there is no wars or sickness and only happiness and laughter. thats my kind of place if there is one such as this.
Originally posted by EarthFallingApart
Thank you for the reply. Thought about what you said. I know realize that the density analogy is not the best but I still think the spirit realm is divided. If you were good you can reincarnate "faster" for lack of a better term whereas it's a slower process for others.
The "conveyor belt" analogy is interesting but I would need to think about that, how it works, why would it be that way.
I do not agree with you on the karma however. Karma is dealt with by the universe IMO. No one soul is going to torment another to level the karmic debt. The next life will make you pay your debt and give you a chance to save some karma for the next life after that. To add to that theres 2 types of karma, the little and big. Little is laughing someones misfortunes only to get the same or worse and "big" karma (again for lack of a better term) is like if you went out and ruined somebody's life or something similar that's profound. No small occurrence is going to pay it.
I do agree whole heartedly that the NWO is using religion, more specifically Heaven/Hell, to their advantage but i still don't think they made it up from nothing. Like most things they do, they take a good idea/intention ... you name it, and then twist it to meet their agendas.
I'm sure there are people on this planet who have a great deal of knowledge on this topic yet hold it back. Even if somebody did come out claiming the truth, those are the ones you have to be the most skeptical about.
I guess we'll never really know until we go ourselves, but I say people shouldn't live in fear of burning in flames if they live a poor lifestyle, just expect a swift kick in the face for Karma,
Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by DragonriderGal
If you dont mind me asking, how do we reach this stage of "enlightenment"?? Also if you dont mind me asking who is this shaman (name) and were is he located??? I am planning to travel to South America , and get in touch with some shamans.
[edit on 2-10-2009 by Maddogkull]
We all go to the spirit realm in between lives, but as I have said, if you weren't a nice sort, you have a bit of spirit karma waiting right outside death's door in the form of all the unhappy spirits waiting and grabbing on to you to share their pain from how you treated them. Now that is like being skinned alive and boiled in oil over and over again if you were really mean, which makes Hell seem kinda real for those who have to go thru it, but it certainly doesn't last forever; only as long as it takes for the other spirits to be sure you understand how much what you did hurt.
Originally posted by Maddogkull
Were did the people go when they died before jesus was around??? Detriot?
Originally posted by the siren
Originally posted by Maddogkull
Were did the people go when they died before jesus was around??? Detriot?
The Bosom of Abraham
To the OP, I suggest laying of the peyote
Originally posted by justamomma
Contrary to popular belief, this term (bosom of Abraham) originated from the Gentile writers of the NT and not from the Jewish.
Originally posted by the siren
Originally posted by justamomma
Contrary to popular belief, this term (bosom of Abraham) originated from the Gentile writers of the NT and not from the Jewish.
I assumed he/she was posing the question to gentiles so I answered as one.
Regardless, I think you'll agree that paradise wasn't called Detroit by the Jews either.
Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma
lol, if that's the case I suppose so.
If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.
Originally posted by DragonriderGal
So essentially what I am saying is if you really think Heaven and Hell are real, Open your eyes!
Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A question for all you guys - when the NWO people are caught, and put to justice - do you think we should reflect their cruelty on to them and burn them alive etc, or should we act compassionate and just be happy that they are humiliated?
Originally posted by theartofzazen
I honestly think it's quite bold for anything to say 'this is the way things are, and that's that'. I suppose for most, it is hard to be content with not knowing the answers, but that is the reality. There are situations for the 'afterlife' that are probable - and I personally do not believe that there is a heaven or a hell - but I don't claim to know what does happen. I understand the concept of enlightenment, and maybe it is possible to know what happens in death, but I still think it ignorant to discount possibilities, no matter what the probability is. Considering that life seems to be based on perspective, death may present different outcomes to you than it does to the next person (whether that be through enlightment or seeking religion or whatever else).
Originally posted by RokNinja
reading this made me think of the ancient greek belief of the afterlife.
apon dying you are lead by a death god or spirit to the underworld. from there you start a journey to get to your next incarnation and the length of your journey depends on how you lived your life.
once throught the gates you stood before three judges that determined where in the underworld you would start your journey. if you were extremly good and sarificed your self for other you would go to the ecleasian fields (Technicly they were islands), they were located at the end of the under world and you could spend as much time resting there as you wanted before you moved on. if you were bad you'd have a very long and trecherous journey. once you got to the end of the underworld they said that your spirit was clensed and that was why you don't remember past lives.
as for the souls you've hurt in the underworld well its not clear but you still feel pain in there and can interact with other souls so if they catch up to you, well... let just say it wouldn't be pretty.
Originally posted by the siren
To the OP, I suggest laying of the peyote
Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma
lol, if that's the case I suppose so.
If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.