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There is NO heaven OR Hell.

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posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by PSUSA
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 




As far as I can tell christian counseling is one of the biggest oxymorons ever to exist. How can you have any kind of personal self esteem and healing if at the very heart of your religious belief you are, from birth, SO flawed 'god' had to send his 'only son' to die so that 'god' could love you again. Sheesh. What a load of horse pucky.


It is that. It's also what they teach. It's the difference between doctrines and scriptures. They hate the scriptures because it exposes the errors of their doctrines.


Unfortunately, I do see the NWO bunch writing the bible. The only difference now is that there are things they would change but can't because so many people now have the 'official' version, so they have to get their flunkies to teach what they woulda changed if they could via a twisted interpretation instead. They are always honing things to make them more effective and more enslaving.


Your quoted point does bring up a scripture you will never hear taught correctly in a church.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Look at how it is translated elsewhere in Jeremiah.
www.biblestudytools.com...

It's not wicked, it's sick, weak. But they do want you to believe you and I are wicked. We were born this way. I dont believe any of us asked for this.
And really, trying to make yourself believe this mishmash manipulation is what makes one weak and sick. Once I quit trying to pretend I could even come close to living such a false and suppressed life, I got a lot healthier!




And the reason you can't reconcile the OT and the NT god is because they don't belong together. That attachment of the jewish part of the 'bible' was just to make the christians feel like they were somehow obligated to the NWO bunch/ex-high priests of Israel.


I agree. Good point. They succeeded to a large extent. So-called "christian zionism" (The ULTIMATE oxymoron, IMO) is extremely popular.


Oh believe me, the NWO bunch have been pushing and pushing christians to come to their flunkie country's rescue for a long time. But if you look closely, the people doing the 'pushing' are usually NWO flunkies aka neo-zionists. Blah.


I can't really identify with all of your stated beliefs, but we agree on some major points. And it's refreshing to discuss these things honestly. Doing this is rare. Really really rare. Usually discussions on religion degenerate quickly.


Yes, it is very nice to discuss such things without having the other resort to calling you a yahoo or something worse, just because you won't go along with their beliefs. And of course, a truly spiritual path is going to be very unique, I think. So there will be points of difference, I am sure.


[edit on 2-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]




posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by redgy
maybe there is no heaven or hell, but being somewhat christian I would like to go to this large tree in the green grassy fields where the children and animals can talk and play with each other, where there is no wars or sickness and only happiness and laughter. thats my kind of place if there is one such as this.

After we make full enlightenment, the world will be a lot more that way, because the NWO and its human hating/enslaving agenda will be gone.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


If you dont mind me asking, how do we reach this stage of "enlightenment"?? Also if you dont mind me asking who is this shaman (name) and were is he located??? I am planning to travel to South America , and get in touch with some shamans.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Maddogkull]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by EarthFallingApart

Thank you for the reply. Thought about what you said. I know realize that the density analogy is not the best but I still think the spirit realm is divided. If you were good you can reincarnate "faster" for lack of a better term whereas it's a slower process for others.


I appreciate your taking the time to think about my reply.
Reincarnating really is an individual process from what I can see. 'Good' or 'bad' doesn't really have any bearing on that. It is up to the individual and what lessons they want to learn. Some lessons are harder and take more lifetimes to figure out I think, and the younger the spirit, the more time. So probably what I would say is that younger spirits are slower to learn, but not because they are 'bad', just inexperienced. Karma teaches us, but sometimes it takes a number of lifetimes to figure out what.



The "conveyor belt" analogy is interesting but I would need to think about that, how it works, why would it be that way.

It is mostly because our spirits can't really handle the 'right straight to no time' thing.


I do not agree with you on the karma however. Karma is dealt with by the universe IMO. No one soul is going to torment another to level the karmic debt. The next life will make you pay your debt and give you a chance to save some karma for the next life after that. To add to that theres 2 types of karma, the little and big. Little is laughing someones misfortunes only to get the same or worse and "big" karma (again for lack of a better term) is like if you went out and ruined somebody's life or something similar that's profound. No small occurrence is going to pay it.


In general, I agree. You reap what you sow, except karma usually sends back a bigger 'crop'.
The NWO has their karma held in abeyance (not excused or forgiven) and we (our overarching sentience of the human race) agreed to hold what was due them until 2012. We, the 'victims' do have that choice since it was our abuse. IN general the karma isn't withheld, but since the NWO bunch also agreed to have it withheld, they aren't getting their lessons either. It had to be mutual. And no, that bit in the after life really isn't karmic. It is just the spirits of those you hurt making sure YOU understand how it felt to be hurt like that. In general though it is us balancing our karma between our highest selves, so we can keep a balance in our soul journey and also to help us learn more quickly.


I do agree whole heartedly that the NWO is using religion, more specifically Heaven/Hell, to their advantage but i still don't think they made it up from nothing. Like most things they do, they take a good idea/intention ... you name it, and then twist it to meet their agendas.


Oh yeah, they do that alright, but sometimes they do have an original thought. Not that often, but sometimes. I see them making up the idea of religion to take advantage of humanity's profound blindness/deafness to the spirit realm level of awareness, It left a huge gap in our sense of our place in the world and universe in general, and made us very vulnerable to anyone who could help us understand that. No other alien species have 'religion'; they all know about all this spirit level stuff.


I'm sure there are people on this planet who have a great deal of knowledge on this topic yet hold it back. Even if somebody did come out claiming the truth, those are the ones you have to be the most skeptical about.


Well speaking out in this day and age at least won't get you burned at the stake, which puts a real unconscious spirit level hesitation about speaking about this stuff if that did happen to you in a previous life. I personally never was much of a seer, and didn't have that happen to me, so I don't have much fear about it. And I speak about it only because I think we all need to wake up! I for sure don't want to end up a NWO slave or torture toy.


I guess we'll never really know until we go ourselves, but I say people shouldn't live in fear of burning in flames if they live a poor lifestyle, just expect a swift kick in the face for Karma,


I do know. I remember past lives quite clearly. And karma is a big dog, for sure. It may go out a teacup poodle but often it comes back like a greyhound.... bus. But to believe and try to live your life to the impossible and inhuman standards of any 'religion' is what I would want people to stop doing. Why torture yourself unnecessarily?? I mean, if you want to, of course please do. But just understand that it is what the NWO wants you to do, encourages you to do, guilt trips you into doing, but all of that stuff is just a lie designed to weaken and limit you and your chances of successfully making full enlightenment.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Maddogkull
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


If you dont mind me asking, how do we reach this stage of "enlightenment"?? Also if you dont mind me asking who is this shaman (name) and were is he located??? I am planning to travel to South America , and get in touch with some shamans.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Maddogkull]


The biggest part of being ready to make enlightenment is to be the best self you can be so when you make the shift, you not only will know what part of that huge glob of energy is you, but also that you won't have any shame or fear or embarrassment about who you are, since in that place we will be completely transparent. NO secrets, no skeletons in the closet.

Everything about us will be known to everyone else in that state. The other part is getting good at focusing your will aka manifesting so that when the earth energy is high enough, you can make the shift by the power of your will/intentions alone.

My shaman journey was facilitated by a fellow class mate in my master's program. She studied with a Sioux Shaman for quite a few years, but for the life of me, I can't recall her name. I am told that is one of the effects of menopause. Sounds like a good excuse, but unfortunately remembering names has never been one of my best abilities! *lol*

And good luck with your exploration of this venue. I of course always am far less comfortable using such tools from a non-american venue. I really can't say that all shamans are good people, so by all means take care and protect yourself with white light. Heck even call on one of the archangels, since they are the elves and will help us out if we ask nicely.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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A question for all you guys - when the NWO people are caught, and put to justice - do you think we should reflect their cruelty on to them and burn them alive etc, or should we act compassionate and just be happy that they are humiliated?



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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I honestly think it's quite bold for anything to say 'this is the way things are, and that's that'. I suppose for most, it is hard to be content with not knowing the answers, but that is the reality. There are situations for the 'afterlife' that are probable - and I personally do not believe that there is a heaven or a hell - but I don't claim to know what does happen. I understand the concept of enlightenment, and maybe it is possible to know what happens in death, but I still think it ignorant to discount possibilities, no matter what the probability is. Considering that life seems to be based on perspective, death may present different outcomes to you than it does to the next person (whether that be through enlightment or seeking religion or whatever else).



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 





We all go to the spirit realm in between lives, but as I have said, if you weren't a nice sort, you have a bit of spirit karma waiting right outside death's door in the form of all the unhappy spirits waiting and grabbing on to you to share their pain from how you treated them. Now that is like being skinned alive and boiled in oil over and over again if you were really mean, which makes Hell seem kinda real for those who have to go thru it, but it certainly doesn't last forever; only as long as it takes for the other spirits to be sure you understand how much what you did hurt.


reading this made me think of the ancient greek belief of the afterlife.

apon dying you are lead by a death god or spirit to the underworld. from there you start a journey to get to your next incarnation and the length of your journey depends on how you lived your life.

once throught the gates you stood before three judges that determined where in the underworld you would start your journey. if you were extremly good and sarificed your self for other you would go to the ecleasian fields (Technicly they were islands), they were located at the end of the under world and you could spend as much time resting there as you wanted before you moved on. if you were bad you'd have a very long and trecherous journey. once you got to the end of the underworld they said that your spirit was clensed and that was why you don't remember past lives.

as for the souls you've hurt in the underworld well its not clear but you still feel pain in there and can interact with other souls so if they catch up to you, well... let just say it wouldn't be pretty.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Maddogkull
Were did the people go when they died before jesus was around??? Detriot?


The Bosom of Abraham


To the OP, I suggest laying of the peyote



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by the siren

Originally posted by Maddogkull
Were did the people go when they died before jesus was around??? Detriot?


The Bosom of Abraham


To the OP, I suggest laying of the peyote


Contrary to popular belief, this term (bosom of Abraham) originated from the Gentile writers of the NT and not from the Jewish.

It is like "high Sabbath" originated from the KJV version of the book of John and was not a Jewish term until those converted to Judaism adopted it.



[edit on 3-10-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Contrary to popular belief, this term (bosom of Abraham) originated from the Gentile writers of the NT and not from the Jewish.



I assumed he/she was posing the question to gentiles so I answered as one.
Regardless, I think you'll agree that paradise wasn't called Detroit by the Jews either.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by the siren

Originally posted by justamomma

Contrary to popular belief, this term (bosom of Abraham) originated from the Gentile writers of the NT and not from the Jewish.



I assumed he/she was posing the question to gentiles so I answered as one.
Regardless, I think you'll agree that paradise wasn't called Detroit by the Jews either.


agreed. Paradise is a state of mind to the Jews, so I guess Paradise could be IN detroit.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


lol, if that's the case I suppose so.

If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma
 


lol, if that's the case I suppose so.

If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.


The Jewish view is fairly simple really. Whether superstitious or not, the afterlife is not our focus. We don't believe in hell other than what we are creating here on earth as mankind. The concept of heaven, I would agree with Jesus in his esoteric view, as do most Jews. It is an inner state of peace. Then, of course, it is important to contribute to heaven here on earth by trying to shed light to those still in the dark (ignorance).

As far as what our Scriptures teach about afterlife, there is none (not that we know of anyway .... and why pretend that we do?). Ecclesiastes 3:19,20; Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10; Psalm 146:3,4 ... we all die and we all go to the same place: the grave; Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic .. it doesn't matter what you subscribe to while on earth in light of death. It only matters, thus the importance, for the generations that follow. The here and now is where we are and so why focus on what we can't know .. that is what comes with death .... most likely it is nothing.




[edit on 3-10-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by DragonriderGal
So essentially what I am saying is if you really think Heaven and Hell are real, Open your eyes!


And allow me to say...with a diferent point of view...You sir, open your eyes, and see better where you live!
I don't know nothing about the Even, but IMO where we live is a perfect Hell!!
Sadly the human race have envolved and especialized in selfish ways where we just avoid or ignore "the evilness" that every day happens next door, or some where else.
We all here present, as the humanity itself allow every day that horrendous acts of evil can be executed every where. because we all hidde behind several personal excuses like..."It's not my problem...; I am impotent to do what ever...; Etc.
And the world still spinning in a ocean of evilness every day, growing & growing! Untill some day we all will perish drawned in a flood of it.
Maybe that day something can really be learned by Humans!!

[edit on 3/10/09 by Umbra Sideralis]



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A question for all you guys - when the NWO people are caught, and put to justice - do you think we should reflect their cruelty on to them and burn them alive etc, or should we act compassionate and just be happy that they are humiliated?

The elves are going to take care of that, in part by sending them back in time to do this all again. And from what I am seeing, the 'tribulation' is aimed at the Jue-sah and the ex-Jue-sah aka NWO bunch and anyone who has helped them (and gotten their karma held in abeyance) pretty exclusively because the 'angels' are the elves, so the rest of us just need to stay out of the way.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by theartofzazen
I honestly think it's quite bold for anything to say 'this is the way things are, and that's that'. I suppose for most, it is hard to be content with not knowing the answers, but that is the reality. There are situations for the 'afterlife' that are probable - and I personally do not believe that there is a heaven or a hell - but I don't claim to know what does happen. I understand the concept of enlightenment, and maybe it is possible to know what happens in death, but I still think it ignorant to discount possibilities, no matter what the probability is. Considering that life seems to be based on perspective, death may present different outcomes to you than it does to the next person (whether that be through enlightment or seeking religion or whatever else).


Considering how blind and deaf we are to the spirit realm, it isn't unusual (and trust me, the NWO bunch have really emphasized this uncertainty because it leaves us so lost and floundering) that no one feels they can be certain about what happens after death and all that. If you hook up to the racial unconscious in a conscious way, a lot of that confusion disappears. Now my interpretation of the information of course goes thru my own filters so there is always room for error, but in general, the whole past life thing is is pretty much a given, from all I see out there.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by RokNinja
reading this made me think of the ancient greek belief of the afterlife.

apon dying you are lead by a death god or spirit to the underworld. from there you start a journey to get to your next incarnation and the length of your journey depends on how you lived your life.

once throught the gates you stood before three judges that determined where in the underworld you would start your journey. if you were extremly good and sarificed your self for other you would go to the ecleasian fields (Technicly they were islands), they were located at the end of the under world and you could spend as much time resting there as you wanted before you moved on. if you were bad you'd have a very long and trecherous journey. once you got to the end of the underworld they said that your spirit was clensed and that was why you don't remember past lives.

as for the souls you've hurt in the underworld well its not clear but you still feel pain in there and can interact with other souls so if they catch up to you, well... let just say it wouldn't be pretty.


Interesting story RN! Certainly the elves did their own spinning for us humans. Their agenda wasn't nearly so harmful though, but they still wanted us to be less feisty and more biddable. Hence the whole sacrificing of self thing as a 'good' thing, but in general, they did try to help us versus impede us with their explanations and 'religious' dogma. They made much better 'gods' (even the cranky ones) than the NWO bunch ever could.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by the siren

To the OP, I suggest laying of the peyote

I guessing you meant lay OFF the peyote? Sorry but I don't do any kind of drugs other than an occasional Marguerite. This is all coming thru my connection to the racial unconscious.
But thanks for your concern.


[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma
 


lol, if that's the case I suppose so.

If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.


Hum.. I don't really know the jewish dogma that well. And it isn't something I care to investigate. Your ex-high priests spun that for you all from waaaaay back when.
And actually, what I see is that the NWO bunch have used and abused your people since before there even was written history. If I would you, I would reaaaaaalllllllllly hate the illuminati aka NWO bunch with a passion.

For example, when Jerusalem fell in 60 AD or so, they basically abandoned you all to your fate and headed off to Europe, although they aren't above still using you when they can, like in the holocaust, for example. They are really evil, that bunch.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]




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