Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
Daelume... please explain to me the one unexplainable fact. Where your guy who says this has his only phalacy as i can see it...

WHY WAS JESUS CHRIST ABLE TO RISE FROM THE DEAD IN HIS PHYSICAL BODY?!?

He didn't "rise from the dead" at all. He was wounded, but not killed, during the crucifixion.

Even if he did "rise form the dead", as some people surely have, that most definitely does not make him God.

In terms of the entire "Death and Resurrection" story, it originates in ancient Babylon with their god, Tammuz.

All religion is a sham. It is pure mind-control.

he was stabbed in the heart... why dont you do a search for the shroud of turin and read up on that... NO ONE gets up and walks away after a puncture wound to the heart!

He wasn't stabbed in the heart. That is a myth.

He was stabbed in the side, and survived his wounds.

There is no evidence that he was stabbed in the heart.

The Shroud of Turin itself is dubious as well.

And religion is just plain BS. Christianity is a joke.

[edit on 25-6-2004 by Daelume]

Originally posted by Daelume
Atheists simply don't know what they're talking about. Christians are just as bad, believing in a religious view of God when in reality God is just the pure, infinite, neutral energy/intelligence which includes all existence.

Yeah, life would be much better if we were are as smart and enlightened as you, Daelume.

What exactly has led you to these interesting beliefs? Why do you so cavalierly dismiss atheism and christianity? What about other religions? Where is your proof for "hyperspace"? How exactly did you arrive at your intimate knowledge of God? Where's the proof that the UN is involved with this "horrrendous (sic) mind-control stunt"? How did you invent the time machine that allowed you to visit Jesus' crucifixion and take such thorough notes?

And religion is just plain BS. Christianity is a joke.

Unfortunately, so is posting pages of unsubstantiated nonsense. This is supposed to be a civilised discussion - give us your evidence or give us a break. BTS is the place for rants.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Einstein, like I said was actually questioning whether he and the whole scientific community were really right or wrong about everything. But he was one of the very rare ones who was questioning science...

I just can't agree with that, Bandit. To conceal breakthroughs - particularly breakthroughs which fundamentally alter our understanding of things - is not easy task. I cannot believe that the "scientific establishment" would suppress new information just to preserve the status quo - a status quo, I might add, which is undergoing constant and significant revision every day.

If we were talking about the concrete proof of God and creation theory, I would concede that a small minority of scientists might be tempted to avoid or contradict the information - but we're not talking about the proof of God, we're talking about a set of theories which describe the way the universe works. The "proof" of God consists of untested extensions and metaphysical semantic wrangling loosely based on these theories.

I don't deny that the history of scientific development is stuffed full of some astonishing hubris, and I don't deny these theories are both interesting and compelling. All I'm saying is that there is nothing here - nothing - which proves the existence of God. Even if the these theories are proved and added to the Bumper Big Book Of Science, then the arguments which prove God's existence will still be anchored in metaphysics and speculation.

As I've said before, and I think CommonSense agreed with, I have no problem with faith. If you want to believe in God just because you do, then that's fine. But the usurpation of science, and the lies and nonsense peddled by these snake-oil salesmen, add nothing to the debate. Surely, if He created the universe, then He isn't bound it's laws - and if He isn't bound by it's laws, you won't find Him with science.

For me, the argument is concluded thusly: if you can't find Him with science, perhaps He just isn't there.

Originally posted by Daelume
He didn't "rise from the dead" at all. He was wounded, but not killed, during the crucifixion.

Ok I think I know enough.

How do you figure he was wounded and not killed? They made sure he was dead. Not to mention the Romans were the BEST at killing people like that, so I'm SURE they'd know when a convict was dead up there.

I think it's pretty obvious what Daelume's game is.

After all this time, I didn't think it would be some ridiculous spam that killed this thread

C'mon guys, we need something inflammatory and provocative to ensure CommonSense gets the "Most Bloated and Unwieldy Thread" award...

If God created Man in His own image, where did he get the idea for Greys?





Edit: Urgh. So disgusted by Daelume's idiocy that my capasitie for ackurat speling haz gon rong.

[edit on 27-6-2004 by StrangeLands]

1. Not to upset people too much, but isn't it possible that religion is scam to goad us simpler minded humans in to a set of conformist beliefs. ie. the intellectual baffles and channels for herding the 'cattle and sheep' around. Used by those of greater intellects.

2. Another thought, could it be that Religion is sort of a 'carte blanche' account way of explaining things when the complexity of the universe around us overloads our ability to intellectually deal with it? A built in biological mechanism like an overflow tank on a radiator, only more sophisticated. A place to park incomprehensible events. A coping mechanism. It 'explains' things so we don't have to strain our brains thinking about it, perhaps calling it 'faith'. Like modular computer programming, you create a shell of a function that is supposed to do something with out working out the actual details right now.

I really don't think religion is a scam since, by all accounts we have, it existed from the begining of creation. That being the case, the "scammer" would have to have been God Himself. If that's the case, it's no scam because God exists and these are the rules He established before the begining of time as we know it.

With regard to using religion to explain things we don't understand, that could certainly be the case. By the same token, that may ultimately be the answer to the things we don't underdstand. Personally, I believe that it is. God is the "uncaused cause" as St. Thomas Aquinas put it.

While I don't agree with many of the statements, I will back up some things...

1) As I understand it, Christ was stabbed in the side, to determine whether or not he was dead, and the Romans found sufficient cause to determine death.

2) All of this happened thousands of years ago, so you can't really PROVE anything one way or the other (unless you happen to have a time machine laying around, and even then, you're subject to Titor's ideas of alternate time lines, hehe...).

3) Jesus pulled the ressurection trick before, with Lazerous. I've formed my own ideas about the whole Jesus phenomenon, but eventually I'll organize it into a lengthy post. Suffice to say, my contentions are that Jesus was pretty much brainwashed by his mother into fitting the role of messiah. Everything started with Mary, and I believe she is probably one of the most clever women to ever walk the Earth.

4) Where Jesus was crucified, happens to be a matter of suspicion, as the lands were said to belong to a family friend, Joseph of Arimethia...so the idea of an organized resurrection hoax, isn't that far off....

Gazrok,
I don't thing the land where Jesus was crucified was owned by Joseph of Arimathea. Both the Jews and the Romans were very superstitious with regard to human blood and consequently would not privately own land where it had been spilled. The tomb however, according to Scripture did belong to Joseph. But remember, when Jesus was placed there, the tomb was put under the guard of the Romans at the request of the Jews specifically to avoid the ressurection story, but the ressurection happened anyway.

[edit on 6/27/2004 by CommonSense]

Originally posted by Daelume
He wasn't stabbed in the heart. That is a myth.

He was stabbed in the side, and survived his wounds.

There is no evidence that he was stabbed in the heart.

The Shroud of Turin itself is dubious as well.

And religion is just plain BS. Christianity is a joke.

[edit on 25-6-2004 by Daelume]

Daelume,
This seems to be indicative of your approach this subject. Do you have anything to support your claims? If not willing to engage in a discussion and support your position, why bother posting here. Seems like a lot of points for a shirt time on ATS. Is this just a spamming of the forums?

Daelume won't be responding, he's been banned, another three day wonder. I wonder why his messages still show up. I thought when somebody was banned their messaged were deleted.

Well, that would take away from the coherence of the thread, so I can see why they're still here. Granted, it doesn't appear as though he had much to say of importance, but still. It keeps the thread in perspective when all of the posts are there.

Well I guess that explains why Daelume hasn't replied. I wonder if he really believed what he was saying of if it was just a post for the sake of a post or a post for the sake of incting an argument. In any event, this thread has produced some very interesting ideas and brought to light many different beliefs, and yes, some a little more different than others. When I first posted the thread there was no way I thought it would get 25 replies much less than close to 500. It's been a lot of fun reading the replies and, I do hope we get about 6 more.

Gazrok,
They used a spear to pierce the side of Jesus to make sure he was dead. This came about because the Jews (Sanhedrin) didn't want the bodies on the crosses during the Passover. They talked the Romans into breaking the legs of those be crucified to hasten death. When they got to Jesus, they thought he was already dead and didn't break His legs. This was to fulfill an Old Testament prophecy that they broke none of His bones.

Gaz,
I'll be waiting for you to put your thoughts together in a post should be interesting. I guess the length of this thread has inspired copycats. I just saw a new one today with the same subject it's called "Creator - God or Aliens"

Two posers have started identical threads on this subject today. figures - both of them just registered today.

Haha, identical threads are fun because everyone ends up just doing the old "cut and paste" and the last pages of both threads are identical. Some people who only speak in one thread are amazed how quickly someone can respond in depth..but theyre really just pasting!

Ah yes - but this is the original and now just one short of 500. But still, searches should be done. Sometimes I think it's just copying a thread for the sake of some quick points. Both of the posters copying this one just registered today.