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Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

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posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 11:33 PM
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I heard this some where...I'f you lived in a 2D world where everything that you knew on that plane existed was 2D and a 3D being (let's say a human 100 times the size of you) put their finger through your less than paper thin existance. All you would see is a large circle within that plane of existance.

As a 2D figure you would call that sphere a UFO, ghost, hand on the wall, etc....

I've read somewhere that scientist believe there are up to 10 measureable dimensions. I know we have a few flat earth believers out there that don't.

I had posted this above earlier on a different dicussion, however I believe it is more relevant here.

Cheers




posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 11:40 PM
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And I replied to you in that thread, GildedHammer. It made perfect sense to me.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 11:57 PM
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Bastet:

Revelations was nothing more than a prophesy of the end of the Roman Empire, and a few tidbits about the end of this creation as we know it.

On another note, I think all have faith, like I mentioned before. You may not call it that, but I think you do. Do you believe ANYTHING that you cannot prove? If so, then that's faith.

I'll give you an example, albeit WAY off topic. I'm a Christian, and yet I believe I have been visited by a VERY melevolent demon. Based on this, I believe there are demons, and yet I have no proof, other than what I can remember. Could it have been a dream, sure. Do I believe it was? Not in a million years. I have faith that demons exist, and as bad as that may sound, it's actually a good thing, since if demons exist, then so does God. All that does is furthers my resolve and belief. Personally, I think faith and belief are one in the same word.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 12:19 AM
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TheBorg, I'm sorry, I still think that John the Revelator was on drugs!

Your direct question is difficult to answer, very difficult indeed. But I guess it's safe to say that no, I don't really believe in anything that I can't prove the existence of. Let me give you an example that occurred 8 years ago.

For 3 nights I walked the floor, unable to sleep, distressed & crying about a friend of mine half the world away, with whom I was unable to make contact at the time. In the early hours of the 4th day, I slept 4 hours then woke crying cos I dreamed his death. You can guess the rest - yes, he had dropped dead at the precise moment I woke up. I had also dreamed, 5 months earlier, of the sad phone call I would make, and that someone I didn't know, would pick up the phone, and that is exactly what happened.

I have also "seen" dead people in life, in broad daylight, people known to me. Ghosts? Angels? I don't know. There's more, but that will do.

Perhaps there's something lacking in me, apart from faith. But it doesn't bother me any more.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 02:31 PM
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I signed up to reply to this topic. I am at work and in a hurry so please forgive my typing.

I can't understand how the type of people that come to this site question the existance of one almighty creator. I call him GOD. With all the laws of nature that we know and all the structure throughout the universe how is it people deny his existance? Common sense tells you sense everything does exist someone or something had to create it.

You can't have good without evil. You can't an up without having a down, AND YOU CANNOT HAVE EXISTANCE WITHOUT THERE AT SOME POINT BEING NON-EXISTANCE. Something or someone had to cause everything to come into Being. I don't understand how anyone can deny that fact.

The question shouldn't be "Does God exist?," But instead "What is true about the religions of the world?" Is Jesus the son of GOD? I think he is, but here is where the real question should lie.

It is my opinion that inteligent life does exist outside of Earth. I think the human history is far more complicated than we can possibly imagine. I believe what the Bible tells me but I think there may be a twist to the words of the Bible that we won't expect.

Is God and alien? I think by the definition of "Alien" that he is. Does this mean I think he is a little green man flying around in a spaceship? Absolutely not! The creator of everything would have no need for a spaceship.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 02:49 PM
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The question was not about the existence of God per se, but I guess I'm nit-picking.

I have already clarified my point of view on this, so I should not have to elaborate further. With due respect, sickness, your rather passionate statements of YOUR beliefs, are just as off-putting to me as mine probably are to you. You have faith, I do not. But I tolerate your views, as I do the opinions of others on this thread.

And that, I feel, is the main element of disagreement between you and me, sickness - tolerance.

[edit on 18/6/04 by Bastet]



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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A Question!
Why does it seem that those "without" faith appear more passionate about God or Jesus than those with faith? Why do non-believers spend more time preaching their non-belief than believers do preaching their belief?



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 06:33 PM
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This faith topic isn't on target with what faith really is. Faith is what you believe to be true. Everyone has faith, the question is in what. Faith is having confidence in something that may be unseen or not yet acted upon. Choose any target that may seem impossible to achieve. Draw a line before the target that may not seem achieveable and believe it possible or believeable. This is how we've gotten to the moon. We are supernatural beings living in a natural world of the 3rd dimension. All cultures have believed beyond this plane of existance and there has always been those who believe in a flat earth concept.

Faith / Fear are really the same thing. They stem from the same source with different effects....you believe in something... how about death being the line drawn and the thought of after death, do you fear or have a form of faith.

Faith is a positive force vs. fear is a negative force
confidence in a positive out come vs. avoidance is a negative out come

What type of personna do you have?

I personally take things in life head on with a very positive view of the out come on almost everything I do.

Cheers



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 07:34 PM
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Regarding the questtion you posed, CommonSense -

"Why does it seem that those "without" faith appear more passionate about God or Jesus than those with faith? Why do non-believers spend more time preaching their non-belief than believers do preaching their belief?"

I was wondering exactly the same thing myself - as one from the "opposite camp". But maybe you are generalsing about the thread as a whole, whereas I only recently joined the topic & am speaking from that perspective. You will have noticed that I replied to sickness about his passionate statements, but I couched my reply on the point of tolerance alone.

I certainly haven't done anything resembling preaching in this thread, nor have I in any way tried to sway others into my way of thinking. Tolerance is a wonderful quality, and its practice would go a long way towards what I hope are our mutual desires for world peace.

Now where were we again?



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Bastet
Tolerance is a wonderful quality, and its practice would go a long way towards what I hope are our mutual desires for world peace.

Now where were we again?



You know I think I will test the way of tolerance. Hmmm, where should I start. Got it. School shootings. The next time a picked on kid goes to school and blows away 12 of his classmates, I'm on his side. I mean he was being picked on he had that right to take care of the problem Then when the parent of one of the victims goes and assasinates the killer and his family, I'll be on his side, after all, his child was killed. Then when the uncle of the last family that was killed kills all of that family I'll be on his side. Then, before you know it, we'll only have one person left in the whole world, and finally the human race can have peace. But wait... what if he trips while hunting a rabbit and he is killed by his own gun. I know I'll, be on the rabbits side.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 07:55 PM
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YOu must understand EACH side can be twisted good or bad...


Example Death tax vs the Estate tax


Named differently because Bush wanted it to said bad, Clinton wanted it to sound good...No matter what the subject people can twist it to sound good or bad. Which brings up the questions, are things evil or only the humans that possess them?



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 08:06 PM
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dlbrandt, it sounds as though you are either confusing the issues here, or else you are being sarcastic. As I'm confident that you are a reaonable human being. I will dismiss the latter reason completely.

I brought up the subject of tolerance in regards to tolerance on the BROAD issues of faith here. Tolerance towards one another where the subject of this thread is concerned is what I meant. I wasn't including murder or killings in this - I was confining myself to the broader issues covered in what we are discussing on this particular thread.

I hope that you are as tolerant of my views on God and aliens, from a belief point of view, as I am of yours. And I'm certainly not preaching at you nor trying to convert you to my way of thinking. I trust that we, as reasonable beings, can agree on this.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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I had to look up the dictionaries definition of tolerant / tolerate to see how it defined.

As a Christian I'm to tolerate the sinner, but not the sin. To many times Christians are or precieved as intolerate to sinners and yet tolerate sin.

True tolerance would be to agape (love) your neighbor as yourself. Putting your own personal oppinions about that person behind you without loosing the position of your own personal beliefs and values. We are call to pray for those who are opposed to us ( Christains).

Sin in the sight of a Christians beliefs can't be wavered for it points the way to eternal death. Jesus didn't argue with common lay men just with those who knew His law or should have through their studies. Those would be the scholars and priests of the day. He also knew when others had hidden agendas. You won't read of Him denying someone to come to Him either. As a biker I wouldn't necessarily be welcome in many churches today so I have some empathy to the intolerance in the church.

If a Christain is complaining, he should be praying instead about the situation.



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Bastet
dlbrandt, it sounds as though you are either confusing the issues here, or else you are being sarcastic.



I was being sarcastic. The word tolerate can only be taken so far. The world of Islam just cut off a guys head today. In their faith, they have the right to do that. Are we supposed to tolerate that? If you tolerate sin it will keep going and growing. Now I've never read the entire Koran but verses of it as quoted in other sources. The true meaning to Islam is that it will take over the entire world and it says if you have to kill to do this then so be it. See in their religion that's Ok. So by the theory of toleration we have to live with that cause it could be right. How can you do that?



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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My family background are the puritans, the Quakers to be exact. They came over on the3rd ship to American called the "Merchant". My family was part of the underground railroad and were pushed out of the south for being slave lovers. They didn't tolerate the way the country enslaved others.

I admit you have a very strong point. What do you do when someone will only be happy with you dead. I think King David is my best source of personal inspiration. He had King Saul trying to kill him and he prayed for his enemy and showed him by not killing him when he slept, though he could of.

As for someone that is not a Christain at least believe in the freedom you have and help those who are for freedom of this nation and others defend their rights to believe what you will.

I have often thought what it would take for me to be willing to lay down my life for the freedom of others like my family members had in the past. It seem hard when people do not appeciate your simple efforts on a daily bases at work or at home. Worse yet, being take advantage of by your un-loveable self seeking neighbors who are all to happy to steal from you if they could for their own gain. If all the people who believe in freedom were honest and could be trusted, life in American and the relations we have would help change our country and the views of other nations on how they perceive us.

What has become of honor in America on a civil level outside of our military?

I personally hope that this fight doesn't makes us who are free divided, but makes us closer.

There aren't any unbelievers in a fox hole under fire.

Fear is our greatest enemy.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 12:08 AM
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dlbrandt, I have confined my replies to the original quetion under discussion in this topic, which asked whether it is harder to believe in God or in aliens.

By going off in what I consider to be a metaphysical tangent not within the topic in hand, you are actually strengthening my argument. I say this because I assume that the God you believe in is the God of love most of us are taught about, the same God of love who figured largely in my own early education.

And that is part of the reason that I would find it easier to believe in aliens than in God. I'm not asserting my belief in either, mind you, as I prefer to keep an open mind.

Furthermore, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, I consider the situation existing in Saudi Arabia is outside the topic in hand. I would particularly appreciate the opnions of other posters on both sides, on this last point of mine.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Bastet
dlbrandt, I have confined my replies to the original quetion under discussion in this topic, which asked whether it is harder to believe in God or in aliens.

By going off in what I consider to be a metaphysical tangent not within the topic in hand, you are actually strengthening my argument. I say this because I assume that the God you believe in is the God of love most of us are taught about, the same God of love who figured largely in my own early education.

And that is part of the reason that I would find it easier to believe in aliens than in God. I'm not asserting my belief in either, mind you, as I prefer to keep an open mind.

Furthermore, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, I consider the situation existing in Saudi Arabia is outside the topic in hand. I would particularly appreciate the opnions of other posters on both sides, on this last point of mine.



I have quite an ironic opinion on this one man.... AMEN!!



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 02:23 AM
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I think there must be a god. Not the god of earth religions.. we project to many human attributes onto this god. God is not human.. but he's not some reptilian High Schooler who created the human race for an A on a science project either. I would wonder if any intelligent alien race other then our own knows the true meaning or existance of god either.

Sometimes I wonder if god is just a force of nature.. a beautiful formula that comes together so perfectly and mysteriously and allows life to exist, in this universe. So God would be in everything, every particle that exists in the universe is a part of god.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 08:24 AM
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I would like to ask Bastet his opinion on how everything came in to being?



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 08:55 AM
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19 June 2004
Weekly News | Education News | PrayerNet | Events

Weekly News
Q: Where did God come from?

Quotable quote:
I cant help but wonder, are we now seeing the fruit of education that predominantly throughout our country has stopped performing any teaching on the basis of moral principles or what is right or what is wrong?

Former president Ronald Reagan, as reported in The Arizona Republic, 11 April 1987.

A: Its important for Christians to be able to give reasons for what they believe. If we say theres a God who created all things, then we need to be able to defend it.

Certainly, its by faith that we believe these things, but its not a blind faith. In fact, were told in Romans that theres enough evidence in the world to convince everyone that God is Creator. We know that cars and airplanes dont just get here by chance. Somebody made them. When we look at the complexities of life, we recognize there has to be an intelligence behind them. Where did this intelligence come from?

The Bible tells us In the beginning, God . In other words, the infinite Creator God has always been and always will be. This is the most logical scientific statement you could ever make. If you dont believe in God, then you have to accept by blind faith that matter arranged itself into complex information systems like DNA, which goes against what we observe in real science today.

Where did God come from? God was not created; He is the Creator.

Recommended resource:

Is There Really a God?
This week on www.AnswersInGenesis.org

12 June: Acts 17 evangelism
14 June: Secular scientists blast the big bang
15 June: Reality roils TheMatrix
16 June: The Galileo affair: history or heroic hagiography?
17 June: One Blood Chapter 2: Natural selection and speciation
18 June: Is the Bible only relevant to faith and salvation?

www.AnswersInGenesis.org...

.
You can find plenty of info on God you just have to seek.



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