Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

I didn't ask a what if question It makes alot of sense when that question is asked. Many of you who believe in god always ask for proof of aliens and that question asks for your proof of how you can believe in god.

And yes I did get taught about god although I don't believe in a god any longer as I have no reason to. We all ask for proof and proof is what none of us have. You can have beliefs but you will never have proof.

I do have proof.
My proof is proof for me. It is hard proof and it is not the last proof I will have in my life. It is not the kind of proof that I can record to show to others, so I will not even try to.
It's a personal journey that you have to start with God, and ironicly enough, the real, hard proof doesn't come, untill your "faith" no longer depends on it.

Originally posted by CommonSense
If life were created through cloning, would that life have a soul? My position is that it would not. For that matter, cloning has not been successful to date and may never be. Maybe that's part of intelligent design.

A very interesting point you bring up. I would like to know the definitive answer to it.

I believe that a cloned body that lives would have its own soul. I believe that because of the way souls get to all bodies, no matter how they are made or where they live. And because a body cannot live without a soul except artificially, at least as far as we know what artificial means.

If I am not mistaken, humans have already achieved some semblance of cloning as far as it would be applicable to this issue of soul.

ES
I don't think we'll find a definitive answer on this. My feeling is that a cloned person would not have a soul because they were created by man rather than God. I believe that all souls come from God. But it ia really interesting concept to think about.
CS

I guess from my own belief and what I've studied I would say cloned people don't have soul/spirits. I'm not sure which word I want to use.

When the group of fallen angels in Genesis 6 created offspring they were offspring outside of God's will. When the flood came these offspring were killed along with the human population. Some say that these offsprings "spirits" are the evil spirits that the New Testament talks about and the ones Jesus cast out of people. One time these evil spirits begged Jesus to send them into a herd of swine. We learn from this that these evil spirits desperately seek embodiment in something. If these are the spirits from Genesis 6, they once were embodied in the "giants" and when the flood came and destroyed the physical body they once had that is why they so desperately desire another place of embodiment.

Now I read a book that says if clones do not have a soul and/or spirit it is possible that this will play into satan's workings in the last days. These evil spirits are around seeking emboidment and human clones could be that body.

Revelation ch.9 talks of a group of 200,000,000 demonic entities that are released on planet earth in the tribulation period. This is info I'm giving out to just be aware of.

Originally posted by CommonSense
My feeling is that a cloned person would not have a soul because they were created by man rather than God. I believe that all souls come from God.

CS

But don't all bodies equally come from man however which ways we do it? Or is it the difference between egg and sperm spawning as opposed to the singular skin scrape that God blesses with a soul or not -- that you are thinking of? I do not know how to think of that.

Is cloning done singularly, as I assume?

[edit on 4-7-2004 by EarthSister]

Originally posted by EarthSister
But don't all bodies equally come from man however which ways we do it? Or is it the difference between egg and sperm spawning as opposed to the singular skin scrape that God blesses with a soul or not -- that you are thinking of? I do not know how to think of that.

Is cloning done singularly, as I assume?

[edit on 4-7-2004 by EarthSister]

That's part of it. The other part is God gave a specific way for the human race to reproduce. Cloning is rebellion and disobedience against God way of reproducing. In a nutshell that's man's problem and actually is a good definition for sin, doing things outside the will of God.

God is the hardest one to believe in and if I believed in god I would also have to believe I in the tooth fairy Santa clause and the Easter bunny since they are all the same thing they don't exist

Originally posted by WestPoint23
God is the hardest one to believe in and if I believed in god I would also have to believe I in the tooth fairy Santa clause and the Easter bunny since they are all the same thing they don't exist

Wow, did no NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE re-register under a different name?

Originally posted by CommonSense
I don't think we'll find a definitive answer on this. My feeling is that a cloned person would not have a soul because they were created by man rather than God. I believe that all souls come from God. But it ia really interesting concept to think about.

I find myself siding with EarthSister. Everyone is created by man - and woman, of course.

It seems to me - logically - that souls, assuming they exist, can only be a function of consciousness; in which case clones, even sufficiently sophisticated AIs, would have the same soul as you or I.

And, of course, there's the old chestnut: how do you know, for example, that I have a soul?

Interesting thoughts, ES, CS...

You're right - it looks like NGITU may be back. From what I've seen he's just another spammer.

SL
While man and woman give life, they do it under the intelligent design of God. I believe this is the reason that cloning hasn't worked - it runs afoul of that intelligent design. I believe that having a soul is also reliant on conforming to that intelligent design.
CS

Thanks all for great input.

Originally posted by CommonSense
While man and woman give life, they do it under the intelligent design of God. I believe this is the reason that cloning hasn't worked - it runs afoul of that intelligent design. I believe that having a soul is also reliant on conforming to that intelligent design.

Well, I don't suppose we're going to see human cloning any time soon due to the obvious ethical implications rather than it not being possible. This may be a bit off topic, but I do wonder what your view is on the cloning of human stem cells. Would this, in your view, conflict with the intelligent design of God?

It will be interesting to see if there will ever be a successful cloning. Thus far, cloned animals have been plagued with problems. With respect to human stem cell cloning, I am opposed to embryonic cloning for obvious reasons. Adult stem cell research is acceptable - IMHO.

Originally posted by CommonSense
It will be interesting to see if there will ever be a successful cloning. Thus far, cloned animals have been plagued with problems. With respect to human stem cell cloning, I am opposed to embryonic cloning for obvious reasons. Adult stem cell research is acceptable - IMHO.

And like you're probably aware of, therein still lies the problem of the cloning of adult stem cells thus far not showing nearly as much promise as the embryonic ones . Let's hope science one day will come up with a solution to this.

I'm aware of the problem, let's hope they work it out!

This is one of the biggest ethical problems facing science today. The use of embryonic stem cells requires the destruction of the embryo. Anyone opposed to abortion recognizes this as wrong.

It was on the way home from work several months ago. The news reported that somewhere embryonic stem cells had been used in some sort of test and the results were terrible. But a test had been conducted with adult stem cells and the test turned out good. For some reason this kind of news never makes it to mainstream America. There is an agenda by people who insist that aborted babies are the way to get stem cells when it's not.

Originally posted by dlbrandt
It was on the way home from work several months ago. The news reported that somewhere embryonic stem cells had been used in some sort of test and the results were terrible. But a test had been conducted with adult stem cells and the test turned out good.

This sounds very odd, but If there is any truth to it - then it's good news. From an ethical standpoint, it's obviously preferred that adult stem cells be used.

For some reason this kind of news never makes it to mainstream America. There is an agenda by people who insist that aborted babies are the way to get stem cells when it's not.

This just doesn't make sense. Why would anyone insist on such a thing if it wasn't true?

Originally posted by Durden

This just doesn't make sense. Why would anyone insist on such a thing if it wasn't true?

My opinion is abortion is big business and as their are many abortions there is an overwhelming supply of embryo's and fetus'. Could it be harder to get enough people for adult cells, I don't know. Or maybe those who do abortions in some way feel that using the aborted for research somehow justifies what they have done.

Its not so hard to believe, when you read about;
"Operation: Alien Gods".

This was an operation which was conducted in the closing days of WWII by the USA. It was a "flow-on" or a RESULT of them utilising the "Windtalkers - the Navajo".
Apparently, their "broadcast-code" language was "noticed" by ETs, who in turn, revealed their presence to the USA.

The only mention of Operation Alien Gods I have ever seen (in the PUBLIC domain) was in the Sci-Fi series, "Space - Above And Beyond".



[edit on 5-7-2004 by Ixataar]