Global Warming so you think its fake?

reply to post by GenLo

---

Yes, so do I. What's that got to do with the doctrine of global warming? Any sane person with a brain does their best not to pollute. I'm alot more concerned with chemicals in my air and water than CO2. Alot of bad science is being used to greenwash people into following the "agenda".

reply to post by Gamma MO

---

Well saying that I follow this whole idea like a cult is insulting, not that it matters, but I have been very open to the idea of global warming to be a complete fallacy, maybe not right now though.

Say what you will but I guess I am a bit of a tree-hugger who doesn't enjoy the idea of many species going extinct or destruction of our ecosystem, not saying that you do.

Once the truth emerges, this "global warming" should simply be noted as part of the wake up call that humans need to change the way they are living.

I'm sorry if it's insulting but it's the truth. You must have "faith" in this theory to instantly reject all other points of view.

I am also a tree-hugger who thinks the environmental movement has been hijacked by corporate interests, self-serving NGOs, junk science and is focusing on the wrong thing. They've got you thinking that to "save species" you must pay the carbon tax like a good citizen. It's a perversion that has amounted to mind control and, by golly, it works.

You can still be an environmentalist without buying into this scam.

According to this leading Global warming scientist, the planet is cooling.

www.calgaryherald.com...

Don't matter. Must be a heretic. Let's all chant together now.....

The earth is warming...the earth is warming...it's all our fault....it's all our fault....Amen

The First Global Revolution Devised Back in 1992

Club of Rome, Think Tank involved in setting UN Policies:
On page 71 you can find the quote:
“Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”

On page 75 you can find the quote:
"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself."

[edit on 20-9-2009 by Gamma MO]

reply to post by pavil

---

Water vapour plays a part, and a necessary part along with the carbon dioxide levels prior to man's industrial age.



I'm simply stating precautionary measures are useful regardless of one's opinions on man-made global warming, whether one accepts the scientific evidence, or not. I'm not contending that we are definitely able to stop it, just that we have to take precautions based on the evidence we have. We need to move onto alternate energy sources before fossil fuels run out anyway, why not sooner?!



It's not news to me, in fact if it turns out to be mostly natural, then we may not be able to prevent climate change. That doesn't mean we should ignore the science we have determined that tells us we should cut our carbon dioxide emissions. When we don't know absolute either way, it's better to take the precautionary path, often science can not give a 100% definite picture.

The evidence does seem to support more recent warming over the past few decades, therefore this appears to point towards man-made carbon dioxide emissions being the root cause for the recent warming.

Unfortunately recent experiments have failed to prove the theory that cosmic rays precipitate cloud formation, therefore during the solar minumum where cosmic rays are greater, this may not increase cloud formation, and cause a higher greenhouse warming effect as once thought. This is the cornerstone requirement for the non-man-made theoriy, but it's still a theory that requires more testing though. If we can determine this or any other factors that produce more cloud coverage, as we know that water-vapour is the biggest cause of the greenhouse effect, then it may change the overall idea of neccessity of precautionary measures.

Even so, we may be able to reduce some naturally produced global warming by using mirrors in space, and some other wacky ideas that scientists are coming up with.

We may require these wacky ideas either way, as it seems we will not meet carbon dioxide emission reduction targets, and the causes of natural cycles are probably uncontrollable.

[edit on 20-9-2009 by john124]

i sympathise with your fears, HOWEVER you are not taking into account that the Earth has been cooling since 1997 and WHY are glaciers and ice caps melting?

Something you only hear about in whispers amongst experts in this field.....that is that the melting is caused by massive increase in activity in undersea volcanoes and fissures.

In the 1970's only a couple of volcanoes were active and yet today we are verging on 40 not including the undersea volcanoes under the Poles.
We as humans are not responsible for any of this and though we are most certainly to blame for pollution, without a shadow of a doubt, melting of ice caps on a cooling planet is way beyond our ability!

Now, governments can't tax volcanoes, can they?

As a Christian, I'd like to respond scientifically...

So supposedly, global warming is happening because the polar caps are melting. The polar caps are melting because there are holes in the ozone layer in those regions. There are holes in the ozone layer because we emit too much carbon dioxide.

Well, I say that's crap and here's a geography lesson to prove it...

Ozone is being formed all the time. In this process, ozone (03) is formed when oxygen(02) rises and comes into contact with radiant energy from the sun. So without both oxygen and sun shine, there will be no ozone produced.

Because of the earths axes, the polar regions have 3 months of darkness each year.
No sun = no radiant energy.
No radiant energy to convert oxygen = no ozone.

Therefore, holes in the ozone during winter months in those areas are natural and should be expected.

Even without the geography lesson, it stands to reason that if carbon emissions were the problem, the ozone layer holes would be above North America rather...because let's be honest, you Americans are the most wasteful nation than all the others put together.

I think the real question we should be asking is: If global warming is a naturally occurring event (and it is), then who stands to gain from blowing it out of proportion? What's the motive. For me carbon credits come to mind. As the Bible mentions - The love of money is the root of all evil.

reply to post by GenLo

---

you and the several scientists? um ... what? i read an interesting comic book recently that has a few funny saying and some interesting numbers 50 things you can do to keep busy as the world falls apart? something like that. you should look into it ... especially the part where it says all those things Al Gore wanted you to do like change your lightbulbs to keeping air in your tires and bla and bla ... if everyone in the USA did that it would only cut 20pct of CO2 output and seeing as CO2 output grows 2pct per year ... do the math .. If it really is CO2 thats changing the climate ... then were doomed and theres no hope of stopping it

and this bs about youve always known global warming was true? thats ludicrous at best. And funny enough No one actually knows anything about global warming or global cooling or global anything the only thing these scientists actually do is study and come up with a theory, get it? not a fact a theory... get a grip on reality

[edit on 20-9-2009 by conspiracyrus]

Exactly what I was thinking.

BINGO! Carbon Credits, Carbon Taxes, Cap and Trade, Massive taxpayer-subsidized Wind Farms, funding to groups, funding to scientists, politicians wrapping themselves in green, etc. etc. The push is on in every level of government. We're talking trillions globally. Everyone wants a piece of action. Next big bubble.

Without one shred of real evidence.

I wish there was a sheep icon I could post. Baaaa

That video posted by OP is ridiculous. It shows melting in the arctic over time....May 2007 to Aug 2007. Guess, what...thats called SUMMER!

[edit on 20-9-2009 by Gamma MO]

reply to post by GenLo

---

Well, I believe in climate change, I believe humans have a part in it, I also believe the planet goes through cycles and that we do not completely understand it all.

It was interesting to me that you pointed out the religious influence, my family is religious (Christians), and do not believe in climate change either. My mom, has said the same thing you did, which perked my interest in your idea, poo poo on climate change as god gave us everything and everything is renewable and meant for our use. Except certain natural plants that have been made illegal, then that is all right.

It just really leaves me with the feeling that some people will come to conclusions, and then find the evidence to try and support those conclusions. Instead of finding evidence and then coming to a conclusion.

In the end, it does not matter if someone believes in climate change as it only takes a moment of thinking to realize that living as "healthy ie green" as possible is a good thing. Even if human kind is not responsible for climate change, it still behooves us to live in a way that supports a healthy planet, which supports healthy humans, plants and animals.

I've asked my friends, would you toss your garbage in your backyard and just leave it to pile up and pollute your living space? They answer no, and I reply the whole planet is our living space, so you are polluting your backyard and you are polluting your neighbors backyard.

Anyway, appreciate the thought, and we should all strive to live in harmony with our world, our home. If we don't, I believe that the way we live will come back to bite us in the ass. I am not saying that we cannot live in a world of technology, I am saying we can do so, with respect towards the one thing that supports us, earth.

edit to add

It is really a bit ironic, that some people who are here denying climate change, also complain about chemicals in our foods, chemicals in our water etc etc etc. They do not seem to see how it is a bit close minded to complain about us being poisoned etc, and then turn around and deny the good of green living. Seems they want it both ways, to live and destroy as they will, but complain if it comes back to them.

Harm None
Peace

[edit on 20-9-2009 by amazed]

reply to post by amazed

---

Totally miss my point. You would be a moron to think the earths resources are unlimited. You are attempting to put me in a little box in your head.

You suffer from black and white thinking. Dangerous and subject to misinterpreting reality.

Me - believer - green - good
They - deniers - polluters - bad

Snap out of it! That is sheepist, follower thinking.

Here in the UK there is a big Christian green movement, the 'Christian Ecology Link'. The least Christians and other religious people can do is take care of the planet God created.

www.christian-ecology.org.uk...

Imo humans are excelerating climate change, but even if it is not fact, we are not caring for the earth as we should. And isn't it better to be safe than sorry.

Plastic Islands, toxins from plastic in the ocean getting into the food chain
Fish stock running out which will cause an ecological catastrophe.
Landfill
Fossil fuels running out
Thousands of endangered species, an ecologica disaster
Rain forests..the earths greatest biological treasures disappearing at an
alarming rate.
More and more cancers caused through chemicals.
This list is just the tip of the iceberg.

reply to post by dizzylizzy

---

Yes, agreed. All those things you mentioned have nothing to do with CO2.

reply to post by GenLo

---

I have been looking into the opposing views and it is quite eye opening. I hope these links work, I think you might find them interesting.

books.google.com... Xw&hl=en&ei=e5K2StCTEYeCMsi39NkO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=earth%20history%20co2%20levels%3F&f=false

adsabs.harvard.edu...


www.co2science.org...

climatedepot.com...
www.examiner.com...


www.geocraft.com...

the way i look at this issue is like this; global warming is occurring. that is a fact.

the conspiracy? or to be more specific the lie that is being perpetuated? that humans are the supposed cause of it. Global warming is a natural process, instead of trying to stop it we should find ways to ADAPT to it.

Humans have VERY little effect on the planet's climate. However corrupt politicians want to spread misinformation and lies to increase taxes, carbon tax, etc.

However this does not mean we should not take care of ecosystems. We (as a species) should try to decrease and limit the cutting down of forests, not because cutting them down will have an impact on global warming as politicians want us to believe, but because cutting excessively is leading to the unnatural extinction of several animal species in our world.

We should stop using oil and other pollutants as energy resources, not because they promote global warming as biased scientists want us to believe, but because we need to lower air pollution in major cities that rely on oil factories for energy.

in other words, global warming is a fact, but we humans have an insignificant impact on the world's climate. However, we should take care of our forests, lower pollution levels in cities (for the health benefits of those living in them), and stop using potential non-renewable resources. the reason is NOT to stop global warming as we are suppose to believe, but because we are causing harm to ourselves and those organisms around us. in addition, we should adapt to changes in climate, not try to stop it.

And you are assuming I was replying to something you said? Talk about moronic and putting someone into a little box. Did I have a "reply" to you in my posting? Or name you? If you are assuming I was speaking of you, I would ask, why would you do that as I did not specifically reply to you nor mention your name?

Maybe, something is poking your conscious? Especially as I said "that some people", not specifically mentioning you, or even specifically anyone on this forum. Interesting reality that you have.

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by titorite

---

What exactly is driving that cycle. People are quick to tout that is all a part of a natural cycle. Yet no one can explain what is driving this cycle they speak of.

As for the Christian response, if God has created the Earth, then you respect what God created. God doesn't want humans destroying his creations.

Where does it say in the Bible that resources are infinite?

Where in the bible does it say to abuse the land you live on?