Global Warming so you think its fake?

Originally posted by OhZone
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

What drove climate change thousands of years past?

you need to be more specific, what global warming?

What is warming the other planets in the Solar System?

I will issue the usual standard response here. There is no proof the solar system is heating up. If people can't even agree things are heating up here, how do they decide temperatures are rising in places they don't even have a weather station for. Or even a thermometer.

Our trees are not dieing because of more CO2. They “eat” that stuff for a living.

Where are you getting this information from? Who said trees are dieing of CO2?
And there is more then one greenhouse gas to contend with. Why are people so focused on CO2?

It is the nefarious chemicals we are spraying everywhere that are killing them. (and us)

Thats possible. So those same chemicals can be hurting the atmosphere.

If the Gov. or anyone is taking the CO2 matter seriously why isn’t there a huge effort to plant more trees?

Its called arbor day.

I am a tree hugger. I weep for all the trees that die in the fires. It takes so long for them to grow.

That is very sweet. Some fires are meant to happen, others not. Can be a complicated subject.

I also love Rocks.

Especially Red Granite Rocks. I have one that I brought from Wisconsin where I used to live, sitting on my table.

Ok, you lost me there. But I like red rocks too. Sedona is one of my favorite places.

The tax is not meant to help the climate in any way. It is a punishment levied on consumers who are adding to the wealth of the oil Barons. Looks kind of self-defeating from their point of view, but then I guess they must get a cut of that "tax" money. You know, government subsidy.

What taxes and how do they benefit oil companies? And if people would insist on stopping their rampant use of fossil fuels then the oil companies wouldn't be so rich.

Personally, I think it is just a gimmic to further destroy the American Middle Class.

That middle class can take the advantage and start new industries that would create a whole new class of imports and technology. It could work hugely in our benefit. As it is, because of our lack of progress, the chinese now have the upper hand on batteries for electric vehicles and are quickly advancing. When it should be us taking the lead on technology.

Another thing that could prove that “they” are totally serious would be to have a massive propaganda campaign to curtail population increase, since more humans will only add to the perceived problem which supposedly was corrected by using less fossil fuels by those already here. It should have been in place for at least 10 years. You see, they are not serious. They seem to like the blood bath and attendant miseries that wars bring better.

Or we could keep the population as it is and curtail our devastating use of any resource we can get our hands on. And stop being selfish.

The holes in the Ozone layer were caused from 2 things. One the aerial A-bomb “tests” done in the late 40’s and early 50’s; and two- Haarp burned and blew away a large section of the atmosphere in their “tests”. It looks to me like there is a concerted effort on the part of TPTB to destroy the Earth. And you wonder what happened to Mars?

Ok I am not touching that.

Is there any proof that Carbon reaches that high into the atmosphere?
It is heavy and sinks. You can’t check for yourself, so you must believe what “they” tell you. Lies, more lies. Can you think of the last time the governments or its agencies told you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

You keep saying "they" until you know who "they" are, how do you even come up with these conclusions? Guess what, carbon doesn't have to reach that high because the atmosphere really isn't even that thick.

Tossing garbage in the back yard? Yes, absolutely. I have a compost container. I put all decayable matter on or in the ground to decompose. We don’t burn, so cartons and most papers go to trash pick-up. Some newspapers and paper towels go into the compost.

ok.

reply to post by ldn1989


Glaciers and ice caps sit on land. Or partially on land. What you have in a glass is the same amount of liquid, ice or water. What is happening here is someone is melting the ice cubes somewhere else and pouring the water into the glass.

reply to post by TheRedneck


For a Redneck, you sure are pretty smart......

I always enjoy your posts and comments.

reply to post by GenLo


So Environmental Support Technology, i'm all for finding solutions. I like the idea of converting organic waste into methane gas for power. Heck since we make so much of it it would be great to be able to use it for something we need.
I don't understand why we are not putting scrap metal to better use. I have to tell you I thought, I thought there were programs out there that Do use it?
As far as the rest of my post not being civil, I guess I don't know what part you are refering to.
Earth Changes that is just a fact? It is, go and investigate it.
Species come and go, they always have and they always will. There is nothing MAN can do to stop it? Same applies.
Please go and research the "not Government Sponsered" climatologists and see what they are saying?
Also check Earth History go back thousands of years you will learn a lot that you apparently do not know. It was eye opening to me.
I believed in the climate change until I started looking into it myself. I had to find climatologists that were Not Government sponsered but the differing opinions got me to keep diggiing.
oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/pd/climate/factsheets/iscurrent.pdf
www.scotese.com...
www.k12.wa.us...
www.geocraft.com...
floatingleaf.rediffiland.com...
www.co2science.org...
Never take someones word as Truth, Investigate everything yourself and always make sure you look at different sources? It pays to educate yourself, not just believe everything you are Told.

it is just another way of control through fear and another reason to tax the crap out of the people to keep us enslaved to the entity known as money, whether it is happening or not, it is not the fault of humanity, although i dont think we help it at all, being green is important on a domestic level, yet the industries are the biggest culprits of polution, but the are in league with the govenment because they are the economy, otherwise known as money

reply to post by GenLo

Here's the difference:

When I first heard about the 'carbon footprint' (there was this big mystery campaign about it), my first thought was this was a load of bull-hockey. I said nothing to anyone else, however, because I was able to understand that I had no information on the subject. So I pulled some old Chemistry books off my library shelves and went to reading.

I re-familiarized myself with the physical properties of carbon dioxide. I studied the interactions of the atmosphere. I read several papers from leading climatologists, then checked out their facts against my printed material. What I learned was that

1. There is not enough CO2 in the air to make any appreciable difference from the absorption/re-emission phenomena.
   
   
2. Global temperatures had been rising at that time with no definite indication of slowing. Now, a few years later, we are starting to see such an indication of a slowing/reversal trend.
   
   
3. The sea level had not yet been affected on anything approaching a significant level. Several years later, it still has not been affected on anything approaching a significant level.
   
   
4. The scientific community was split between those who believed the theories and those who did not. Today, the split has shifted, first toward believers, and now back toward deniers.
   
   
5. There were many instances where the data was questionable. Today, I have found several of those questionable areas of data collection to be more of an outright fraud.
   
   
6. Predictions were regularly exaggerated to extreme proportions.
   
   
7. Information was being presented in piecemeal form to the general population, regularly focusing on one particular fact (CO2 absorbs and re-emits heat) while ignoring other facts (at a rate of only 16% of the total heat available to it) which did not support the position being advanced.
   
   
8. As time went on, a great deal of money and effort was expended on destroying the integrity of the most vehement deniers, instead of trying to disprove their positions scientifically.

In the light of all that information, as well as quite a bit that I did not list here, I decided that my first impulse was correct. I then began to debate the subject. I debate for two reasons: to get enough people to question what they have been told by the 'experts' and perhaps avoid or at least minimalize the coming power takeover by TPTB, and to continue to learn. I admit there are many people mush smarter and more fluent in climatology than I; I will simply test them where I can to make sure they are sincere.

You, on the other hand, talked to your friends and family, made conclusions based on information from listening to others, and came out with a conclusion that all Conspiracists and Christians are Global Warming deniers. I present it here that, based on the tone of your OP, your mind was already made up; the desire to verify was little more than a cover story to let you back out gracefully while you berated those who disagreed with you.

I threw a proverbial monkey wrench into those plans. Now you want to back away with the excuse of trying to get data. Sorry, I just don't buy it; I still call BS. A good clue as to your true motive is found in your continual attempts to hide behind your age, while simultaneously taking those little childish jabs at your opponent. Sorry, but you were old enough to decide that others should be doing more to protect the planet; now it's time to put up or shut up. I am not your slave, not going to be held to doing your bidding while you go have fun. You asked to sit into this poker game; now it's time to ante up or walk away.

That's how adults play. You know, adults, as in those older than 18... like 22?

TheRedneck

reply to post by C0bzz

Lowering them to 150 (which are under natural levels) would stop plant growth.

No it will KILL the plants and most of the life on this planet. I am glad someone caught my piece of sarcasm. Congratulations!

reply to post by StellarX

The fact that WE are being ignored and trampled under the profit motivated industrialist system is only being blame on 'US' because 'they' ( those who's banks we just bailed out, AGAIN!) refuse to give up their control mechanism called capitalism.

"control mechanism called capitalism"

PLEASE use the correct term.

We have not had capitalism in this country since the barter system was abandoned. What we have is Corporatocracy or Corpocracy and the bankers/corporations who are in control want to KILL Capitalism. The last thing they want is fair competition (capitalism). They want "socialism" controlled by the them so they can kill all other competition through over regulation so they can become extremely wealthy and we become state controlled serfs. It is actually Neo-Feudalism under the guise of the "Politically Correct term" Socialism.

The HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job The Global warming Hoax and The Federal Reserve Rip off are a few of the scams cooked up by these men behind the curtain to force laws that put more wealth (from YOUR labor) into THIER pockets.

This transformation was the result of organized plans developed by a group of highly powerful – though unelected – financial and industrial executives who wanted to drastically change agricultural practices in the US to better serve their collective corporate financial agenda. This group, called the Committee for Economic Development, was officially established in 1942 as a sister organization to the Council on Foreign Relations. CED has influenced US domestic policies in much the same way that the CFR has influenced the nation's foreign policies.

Composed of chief executive officers and chairmen from the federal reserve, the banking industry, private equity firms, insurance companies, railroads, information technology firms, publishing companies, pharmaceutical companies, the oil and automotive industries, meat packing companies, retailers... Source

Global warming isn't really an idea that is being fought over very often in the scientific community anymore. Within the last decade enough evidence has been brought forth by research to make a pretty compelling argument that our world is essentially living outside its means -- or living an unsustainable life style. Obviously there will be some people that will be against this idea but the general consensuses on global warming is that it is happening and our environment really is being destroyed, by global warming and a number of other related environmental issues.

Most estimates give us only a number of years until we will have large water issues in a lot of US states, extinction of all consumable ocean life (by 2050ish or so), extinction of rain forests within the next few decades at the rate we are practicing deforestation and a number of other things. Interestingly enough it seems that a large number of our pharmaceutical products come out of rain forest plants(like 25-30%), but less than 1% of rain forest species have actually be tested for pharmaceutical relief. Cure for AIDS, cancer, parkinsons, Alzheimer -- could be sitting right there as we bulldoze it into extinction.

There are a number of other things in play too, top soil drastically being reduced (75% of what it once was when America was being colonized -- use to be something like 22 inches iirc) and nutrients no longer being in naturally grown food like they used to be. Iron in spinach now is much much much less potent than it was when America was first being settled. There are a number of other plants which no longer provide the same strengths to human beings that they once did. It can also be seen that it is generally impossible for anything to be grown without using fertilizer anymore.

Human beings use the majority of the worlds resources for our single species while we leave the rest of the animals to fight over the remaining resources themselves, it is no wonder why nearly every single species in existence is reporting population losses. Numerous animal species go extinct each day. Simply put, this is obviously unsustainable.

Something else interesting is that the farts (methane) from animal farms where they are basically grown to kill and be used as food are more harmful to our environment than all the co2 emissions from all of our vehicles -- the single best thing we can do for greenhouse gasses is to actually stop eating meat. (something I personally haven't started doing).

Also, I know a poster linked global warming with being political and pointed at Al Gore, Gore really isn't using this issue for the political game -- he is out of politics. He even stated in an interview I was listening to a long time ago that he wouldn't accept an Obama nomination for a cabinet position if he was given one (he wasn't). Gore basically gave up his political life to focus on these environment issues and getting the public to understand entirely.

Civilizations have lived beyond their sustainability before and have been completely wiped out, I'm not sure why people think this time around will be any different for us.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by qdubzg]

This is just about as bad as debating UFO's/religion to me...so my answer is..
How long and how many planets have we recorded temps on?
Well we know for sure the moon for at least 50 years..
most likely mars
This is where my ignorance shows I do not know how true any temp readings could be other than the moon "we have been there I heard"
So other than theories the only thing I can think of for a constant to evan start to give a thesis would have to be ..
temps on the moon vs temps on earth over the last 50 or so years.
"extremely short amount of time for any trends on a solar systems scale"
We can't base a single planets temp rising or falling a few degrees on anything without a constant or another specimen for info. IMHO

If we can accurately measure temps on far away planets "I mean without doubt" the more the better!!!
Anyways I think this is the best situation we have for trying to guess at weather GW is real/false?
If all said subjects were getting warmer or cooler "giving basic size and density for scale" for the lag time "heat retention"
Then we have a good starting point for an answer!
And the other thoeries of weather they have a molton core...not just OMG bovine methane, and big rigs or whatever... ant farts.


Wheres Phage when I need-em

To be honest I just really have no opinion weather its real or not just trying to figure out a way to get an answer rather than just beating my keyboard to death debating theories.. thats all
sorry for the rant..

i have never really posted a reply, i more read them and make up my own mind... but i have now choose to take part

anyways, in this thread... i personally believe, that its just natural.. everything has a cycle, and this is one of them.. but i also believe that, humans aren't helping mother nature.. i dont understand how so many people can hurt our own planet.. on another note, isnt the other planets heating up as well.. so im assuming that there are little being creating global warming as well as humans

but, i do realize that our planet should become a greener planet, we live in it dont we.. in our houses, we clean, we dont like living in a dirty house, is that any different.......

reply to post by GenLo


How long have we been coming out of an ice age????? So i guess 850-650 million years ago humans were working in there big businesses, driving the big cars and all the cows started farting at the same time to start the big thaw?!?!?!? NO...come on....it's a natural occurance that has been blown out of proportion to make those like Al Gore rich. Sure, we should take a little more pride for where we live and not trash the place, but the whole "Go Green" thing is a gimic that many have fallen for!!!

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by GenLo
You, on the other hand, talked to your friends and family, made conclusions based on information from listening to others, and came out with a conclusion that all Conspiracists and Christians are Global Warming deniers. I present it here that, based on the tone of your OP, your mind was already made up; the desire to verify was little more than a cover story to let you back out gracefully while you berated those who disagreed with you.

Wrong wrong and wrong. First of all I never stated any conclusions that "Conspiracists" and Christians are Global Warming deniers, you on the other hand keep insisting in your statements that I had typed my OP this way. Please quote me! I have already made several posts further clarifying the OP even editing it a little. Perhaps you are flustered by the statements that I quoted? I will admit that I never investigated whether all xtians believed in such things but that wasn't something that ever made it very high on my priority list but it was part of my reason for making this thread, to find out what the opinion was.

I also stated in the original OP that I wanted to collect what others thought from their posts, it was never my intention to berate anyone (well xtians a little bit maybe ) until comments like yours came in and started to insult me in which case I became more defensive and attempted to be civil which should have been obvious at the beginning of each response. Which I also find very much the same of your responses, which I delight in reading until you get to this point here where you start attacking me.

Excuses? I haven't even started with excuses yet! Hey let me ask you though, what were you doing at my age and younger? Muddin? Drinkin some beer? Haven a good ole time? Sorry that was inappropriate of me. See what I did is I told you a brief bit of the past three years of my life in the service, I am not going to go into details about how my life has been constrictive to my wants and desires of doing the types of things I'd like to do whether that be helping the environment or "haven a good ole time". I don't need to tell you my life story because I don't know you and it would do me any good if I did because then there would just be some other chump who tries to label me as someone who is a hypocrite and because I don't know anyone on this forum in the first place I would be at the same position I am now.

Its as if you would like to (or that you do) believe that I enjoy the idea of Global Warming just so I can have something to blab about, but I would rather believe that Global Warming were just a cooked up dish to serve the masses because then HEY, that's some stress off of my mind!

And what you think of my little trip to Japan as being nothing more than a youth hardy experience of self-indulgence, well your half right except its also something spiritual and something I have been trying to do for some time. Its a dream I have had and feared would never happen. I want to experience the beauty and culture there before it may possibly be too late. I am afraid Mr. Redneck, afraid that the world as we know it may end in 2012 perhaps for the worse. I figure I have had enough of the bad life so once I get out of the service I am going for it before its gone... or I'm gone.

I'll be damned if you think I am asking for your sympathy, but what I am asking for is your understanding before you decide who I am.

Other than that I am still open to the possibility of the whole thing being a hoax, its like what some of you xtians say about your relationship with your savior, better to keep it around as insurance in case your wrong because if you are, well then no harm done. However, being wrong about global warming could have some pretty dire consequences. It would be some time even, if I saw it your way that I would openly admit whether you were right and I was wrong since one would have to get over the ego first, so I don't see the point in taking such aggression with me. Wait, let me take that back, I do see the point.

You got me to here feeling like while typing.

reply to post by GenLo

First of all I never stated any conclusions that "Conspiracists" and Christians are Global Warming deniers, you on the other hand keep insisting in your statements that I had typed my OP this way. Please quote me!

Ask, and ye shall receive!

Originally posted by GenLo
I have always known that global warming was a real issue that we face in the wake of our global population and pollution but why the doubt? First time I was met with such doubt came from religious family members and friends. I heard things similar to the affect that, "All natural resources are renewable.", "The idea of global warming goes against God.", etc. Being a spiritual atheist I could only find these answers typical until in later 2005 early 2006 when I entered the realm of conspiracies I began to hear that this was just another conspiracy. For some reason its quite typical a response in the conspiracy network that global warming is just an engine for the NWO to use to power in tyrannical taxes on the global population. I do disagree still as I have yet to see any evidence that these levels of global warming, even influenced by the human element, is indeed a natural occurring event that is simply being blown out of proportion.

Opening line. You started with a preconception that 'you have always known' Global Warming to be a 'real issue'. From there you blamed the ignorance of Global Warming deniers on Christian and Conspiracist excuses.

I will, to be fair, give you some credit:

Originally posted by GenLo
However, I do believe that the conspiracy is half right and that the high elite are using it as an excuse to press there thumbs down on the common man.

You then proceeded to show us a nice little time-lapse video which was later pointed out to be taken during the summer months, showing the normal summer retreat of the ice shelf.

You then continue:

Originally posted by GenLo
And as coincidence theorists or Christian why not change your ways anyway?

I responded with how my ways were consistent with being a 'good steward' of the planet, and simply asked what you were doing along a similar vein.

You responded with a tirade about how arrogant and rhetorical I was.

So now that we have recapped what was originally said...

Excuses? I haven't even started with excuses yet! Hey let me ask you though, what were you doing at my age and younger? Muddin? Drinkin some beer? Haven a good ole time? Sorry that was inappropriate of me.

Save your excuses. I'm not interested in them.

Let's see, age 22... I'm gonna date myself here... that would have been in the early 80s. Oh, yes, I remember... I was starting a career! I was working evening shift at a local nuclear plant in construction, and on the weekends and mornings, I would occasionally go muddin' and drink some beer. Of course, I was also growing a garden every year and trying to find ways to produce my own power, even back then. The problem I kept having was that every time I turned around, some new governmental regulation was making it more and more expensive to maintain my standard of living. It was a while later that i realized I was fighting a losing battle on that front and gave up all the niceties of society (well, most of them) to live a healthier, cleaner lifestyle. It has taken me a lifetime of diligence to reach the point where I find myself now, a lifetime without taking yearly vacations or sabbaticals from my reality.

Its as if you would like to (or that you do) believe that I enjoy the idea of Global Warming just so I can have something to blab about, but I would rather believe that Global Warming were just a cooked up dish to serve the masses because then HEY, that's some stress off of my mind!

Actually, no, I don't believe that. I believe that you have swallowed the Global Warming scam hook, line, and sinker, and that rather than try to do anything about it, you prefer to nag others to get them to do it.

Swallowing the story is understandable, as there has been a major push to convince people to do just that, but where I have a problem is when you push your agenda on a forum, then openly admit that you don't do a blessed thing yourself in that department. I don't really care where you want to go, why you want to go there, or what you want to do when you get there, because it's your business, not mine. But, there's a corollary to that: what I do is my business, not yours, and I do not appreciate you berating me, my religion, my culture, or my lifestyle when you are doing far, far less than I do in the environmental department and have no plans to.

And what you think of my little trip to Japan as being nothing more than a youth hardy experience of self-indulgence

...is irrelevant. I really don't care! As a matter of fact, I wished you well on it. That was not intended as sarcasm.

But again, if you are so fired up over an issue, then why not do something about it yourself? Your words, re-posted above, indicate you are terrified of Global Warming, but your actions say the exact opposite. Now, which is it? Either you lied in your OP and really aren't worried about the environment all that much, or you're not planning to go on this little excursion.

I tend to believe actions before words; they are harder to mask. So I'll come down on the side that you really don't care enough about the environment to actually do something yourself, just enough to berate others for doing what you do and ignore it. That's called 'hypocrisy'. And when you do find someone that rebuts back with what they did, that's 'rhetoric' and 'arrogance'.

Other than that I am still open to the possibility of the whole thing being a hoax, its like what some of you xtians say about your relationship with your savior, better to keep it around as insurance in case your wrong because if you are, well then no harm done. However, being wrong about global warming could have some pretty dire consequences.

The problem here is that compliance with the Global Warming agenda has just as dire consequences as ignoring the problem. Are you aware that CO2 must exist at a certain level (not very far below where it is now) in order for plants to survive? Without plants, there will soon be no oxygen, because that is what they respirate from their leaves, and why we can continue to breath the stuff without it running out. An absence of plant life also means no more food. We eat plants, as well as animals that eat plants. It all comes back to the plants as the foundation of the life cycle on the planet. Now we are going to take a chance on asphyxiating them because some power brokers want to control industry? Yeah, really, no harm could come of that...

I will commend you: that paragraph was the most civil one I have read from you to me since the OP.

You got me to here

feeling like

while typing.

Good! That means you are finally thinking for yourself. Keep that up!

TheRedneck

Hands Redneck his bottle.......
OH yes I do recycle please help me empty it, so I can leave with a fresh refill...
Just hope your in my kneck O the woods ITSHTF

Hi,

Originally posted by crimvelvet
We have not had capitalism in this country since the barter system was abandoned. What we have is Corporatocracy or Corpocracy and the bankers/corporations who are in control want to KILL Capitalism.

I essentially agree with you criticism in that i should have been more specific in defining the system ( where it diverges, etc) but won't go as far as to agree that this not fundamentally a type of capitalist system :

As you cite Wiki ( and i think it's good enough ) i will use it as source even for this most important of distinctions.

Capitalism typically refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production (also known as capital) are privately controlled; labor, goods and capital are traded in a market; profits are distributed to owners or invested in new technologies and industries; and wages are paid to labor.

en.wikipedia.org...

So according to at least the common sources what we have is at least closely related to capitalism.

The last thing they want is fair competition (capitalism).

There is nothing it the capitalist doctrine ,especially as understood and or taught today, that suggest that it is or should aspire to be engender 'fair' competition. The fact that 'capitalist' thinkers ( another simplification, forgive me) words and ideas have been twisted to suit private interest is perhaps not surprising; Adam Smith didn't have what we have now in mind.

They want "socialism" controlled by the them so they can kill all other competition through over regulation so they can become extremely wealthy and we become state controlled serfs.

But that would not be socialism so don't follow my bad example and generalize and oversimplify. As for what they want as can be seen by the recent banking scandal, and the destruction of the Glass-Steagall act in the late 90's that led directly to it, it's in my opinion NOT regulation that they want. They are only 'united' when threatened by the 99. 999999% of the rest of us but mostly they are at each others throats as much as they are at ours.

It is actually Neo-Feudalism under the guise of the "Politically Correct term" Socialism.

There is nothing politically incorrect about actual Socialism UNLESS you happen to be against the notion of collective ownership of at least the means of production. As for what they want i think that's clear ( 'control') even if i have no idea what they will call it, what they will pretend it is, or how exactly they will choose to sustain it this time.

The HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job The Global warming Hoax and The Federal Reserve Rip off are a few of the scams cooked up by these men behind the curtain to force laws that put more wealth (from YOUR labor) into THIER pockets.

No disagreement on the scale of deceptions they have managed and still perpetuate to this day.... I would add that it's NOT about wealth but about control and that their extreme wealth is at best a very simplistic score keeping system that gives us some measure of their power of manipulating the world.

In closing if your willing to be more specific i know i can improve too.

Stellar

reply to post by Starseed32


i understand the whole al gore thing.. besides the point, it was quite a good documentary,
anyways... i dont understand, why you think the whole going green is such a gimic... wouldnt it be nice to use our own NATURAL resources.. like solar power, and wind power and water... like we dont need to use the factories like that... everytime i pass through this one town, all you see is the smoke coming from it and it just smells... i think it would be a great thing to turn green! i dont think mother nature wanted us to do this to our own planet, like come on people.. use the resources wisely.

peace and love

www.youtube.com...

U.N. Climate Summit Leaves Large Carbon Footprint

It happens every autumn: midtown Manhattan becomes the motorcade capital of the world. Each foreign leader in town has a convoy of vehicles. Some of them, like President Obama's motorcade, are 20-to-30 vehicles in length. It's so long - it seems that when the front of it reaches the U.N., the back end is still back at his hotel.

Exacerbating the annual exercise in diplomatic gridlock are police actions, blocking intersections and closing streets for security to facilitate motorcade movements. It renders countless other vehicles immobile while waiting for motorcades to pass, their engines idling but still blowing exhaust into the midtown air

Does it undermine the goal of the climate change summit and cause the pledges of environmental concern to ring hollow?

Asked about it, White House climate change negotiator Todd Sterns had a suggestion.

"I think the U.N. should make a pledge to electric vehicle motorcades within five years," he said.

Right. As soon as all U.N. diplomats pay their parking tickets.

hypocrites

reply to post by StellarX

This is not all that off topic because when you look at who is behind "Global Warming" you find David Rockefeller and Maurice Strong


The banking/corporate cartels decided that “socialism” was an excellent vehicle for seducing the “peasants” into cooperating. “What unites the many different forms of Socialism.. is the conception that socialism (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) must be handed down to the grateful masses in one form or another, by a ruling elite which is not subject to their control...” Link
This is the type of "socialism" I am talking about,-- a dictatorship and that is what is being set up. The cartels have found socialism very useful in manipulating political activists as they set up their empire.

Once you twist your mind around and look at things from the point of view of "is this useful in manipulating the masses" does it advance my Corporate/Banking goal, does it make it difficult or impossible for newcomers to compete? Things become very clear.

ENVIRONMENTALISM = No one be me (the bankers) get to use those resources!

FIAT CURRENCY/INFLATION = Steal wealth (Labor) from the serfs

GLOBAL WARMING = Scare the serfs in to accepting a severely reduced standard of living to save the world. (Notice how Strong attacks the middle class not the wealthy.)

REGULATIONS = Lifts the entry bar so ordinary people can not start businesses, especially businesses without banker funding.

NGOs = Professionally lead groups (no imput from members) who absorb and divert restless Political Activists. This was an absolutely brilliant move on Maurice Strong's part. It makes Activist feel like they are doing something and gives the Banker/Corporate Elite the "moral high ground" to defeat any stray activist they did not rope into their agenda.

I figured this out when Organic Consumers Association was strongly FOR the Food Safety bills despite prolonged conversations pointing out all the ways the bill would kill the Organic Food/Locavoire Movement. Then I researched Organic Consumers and Food and Water Watch, and found they were run by the same person who was bribed with an appointment to the UN! They are also funded by the Rockefellers or the Tides Foundations.

Sancho commented in another thread that his brother who works for the EPA was told to put the Mom & Pop companies out of business and leave Exon/Mobile alone. John Munsell found out the same thing in the meat slaughter business. The small guy have been driven out of business.

I hope those reading this will stand back and view everything they see from the point of view of "How will the Banks/ Corporate Cartels" profit from this rumor, trend, law, or Cause and then research it from that angle.

Make sure you wear a mask and gloves because once you start digging it gets nasty quickly

Nixie
Actually the scientists who say that Pluto is warming seem to be rather undecided if it is or not.
They read a rise in atmospheric pressure and concluded it was warming.
Someone on this thread said CO2 was killing the trees.

Arbor day has been since forever and has never resulted in any massive plantings.

How do taxes benefit oil companies? I said they likely get a cut to make up for losses due to people not using so much oil.
Rampant use of fossil fuels?,,,,,,what are we to use? Right now there are a lot of people out of work who are not driving around much, and surely are not using much air conditioning.
It is the government that is preventing and has prevented (for the benefit of their Oil owning buddies) any serious research into other power sources-some of them free.

So how do they make electricity to power those Chinese batteries?

Nixie:
“Or we could keep the population as it is and curtail our devastating use of any resource we can get our hands on. And stop being selfish.”

****And what alternative power do we use.
And why shouldn’t we be “selfish” and enjoy our lives in every way?
The only devastating use of resources are those Asian made electronics that are unrepairable.
“They” are the powers that be. No one knows exactly who they all are, but we have some likely suspects.
CO2 is actually very heavy and it sinks. It can never stay “up” for very long.
The thinner the atmosphere the less likely you will find CO2.

Only 1.5% of the Earth’s water is locked up in ice. Not likely to raise water levels. Also as it melts and runs off the land, the land rises.

Somehow I just do not think that TPTB really want or need more money.
They already have more than any individual one of them can use.
So how do they profit by taking more from us?
When we have very little we will not be able to buy their stuff.
The welfare class will grow and grow.
So then what will they do?
What final result do they really want?